So, how is Pagos?

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Originally Posted by Wiccan026

Quick question (none of my characters actually can get into Pagos so I don't know the answer myself), I assume were upgrading our existing weapons in pagos and are we upgrading are armor again too? (if so is it a different style) Or are we just getting accessories and weapons?

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only weapons, there isnt af accesories, and armor has been said it won't be upgradeable until the next eureka area

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Originally Posted by ko_

That's my thing I guess after thinking it over. I think if it wasnt battle content it'll been recieved better.

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They actually did try that by requiring crafted mats for Anima relics and materia/alexandrite/whateveritisbecausethatrelicwasstupid portion of Zodiac relics before that. For the latter, I remember a couple of friends grumbling about that until they got it over with (and then started grinding about the light phase). With Anima relics though, I remember the biggest issue with it was that it would cause issues with server economies due to them being specialist recipes, and it was usually why I stopped mine at the phase before it until they made them available via non-specialist crafting and then GC seals later on.

The dungeon parts though actually weren't too bad as far as battle content went since though it wasn't as big or fancy as what was already current, it gave that content a slightly longer shelf life than the "do once and forget it" dungeons we have in SB.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Considering Eureka is supposed to be a highlight of Stormblood, it'd be a smarter investment to shelve something else and make it better than the disaster we currently have.

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Now I would suggest this too, but there's really nothing left to shelve that wouldn't make players leave in droves (or at least make them leave faster).

I kinda enjoyed Anemos. It was fun for a short period of time when my nostalgia for older MMORPGs kicked in.
Now Pagos somehow feels way worse.
It's harder to even move outside of the starting camp. The mobs are way harder and the closest FATES are too far away.
It's very difficult to even reach the boredom train.
Then we have the Fates themselves. The bunny one is kinda stupid albeit it feels like something new.
What I don't like is that those bunny chests drop a food which enables you to achieve gold rate on the worm FATE.
A FATE that needs an RNG items from another FATE to even reward you the maximum XP. What?
The leveling also feels way slower than Anemos.
The area is also very borring. I like snow and all but this area feels very borring.
Then you have the other big problem. People.
Most of them idling afk while few actiove trying to kill the mobs which make it even slower and more borring.
Relic was always a grindfest this is not exception but I expected Pagos to be an overall improvement over Anemos and not something way worse.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

They actually did try that by requiring crafted mats for Anima relics and materia/alexandrite/whateveritisbecausethatrelicwasstupid portion of Zodiac relics before that. For the latter, I remember a couple of friends grumbling about that until they got it over with (and then started grinding about the light phase). With Anima relics though, I remember the biggest issue with it was that it would cause issues with server economies due to them being specialist recipes, and it was usually why I stopped mine at the phase before it until they made them available via non-specialist crafting and then GC seals later on.

The dungeon parts though actually weren't too bad as far as battle content went since though it wasn't as big or fancy as what was already current, it gave that content a slightly longer shelf life than the "do once and forget it" dungeons we have in SB.



Now I would suggest this too, but there's really nothing left to shelve that wouldn't make players leave in droves (or at least make them leave faster).

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Well I meant make eureka entirely a noncombat zone. Like it doesn't need crafting. Why not a mini game? A sport? I'm just saying if fighting monsters isnt fun in eureka than what else can they do? I think a sport would've been fun. And no. Lords of v doesn't count. Like something actually fun and different.

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Originally Posted by ko_

Like something actually fun and different.

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Well, Lord of Verminion was one such attempt. Chocobo Racing another. Their idea of how to make 3d soccer/blitzball "fun" is to turn it into a menu manager game ala retainers/squadrons.
Plus, as per my previous quotes, Pagos is the result of them taking time off developing rewards in order to improve Eureka. Reception varies.

I'm not sure I'd want them to try something "fun and different". Whatever their idea of "fun" is, it clearly differs drastically from mine.

yea but if we wait they nerf it, probably in 4.45 or smthing, we can manage to get an out of date wpn, so whats the point?

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Well, Lord of Verminion was one such attempt. Chocobo Racing another. Their idea of how to make 3d soccer/blitzball "fun" is to turn it into a menu manager game ala retainers/squadrons.
Plus, as per my previous quotes, Pagos is the result of them taking time off developing rewards in order to improve Eureka. Reception varies.

I'm not sure I'd want them to try something "fun and different". Whatever their idea of "fun" is, it clearly differs drastically from mine.

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What can they do then? It's hard to always have new stuff in a game where its posed to live forever. Even wow struggles with this. I've seen the same complaints in every mmo online that isnt dead on release. I mean I dunno. I feel like a sport would've been a way better option then what eureka is now. Hell even if it was just chocobo racing in the mainworld. What other options do they have at this point? :c

I enjoyed Anemos. But Pagos is Anemos with all the damage nerfs. The only real improvement I have noticed so far is the weekly challenge log which helps.

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Originally Posted by ko_

What other options do they have at this point? :c

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Well, if I'm not mistaking, the player base had some request that has never been granted.

Free Company content, harder 4 man content, and surely others things that I forgot.

Trash. (character limit whatever)

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Originally Posted by ko_

What other options do they have at this point? :c

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Mashing together different types of existing generally well received content with a new coat of paint?

For example, take a dash of hunts, a pinch of treasure maps, and mix it with the randomization of deep dungeon. You get a large randomly generated map or set of maps with its own leveling system where you hunt for specific monsters and search for treasure.

That seems an alright basic idea for "new" content to me.

Not sure if its been asked but does anyone know if we get to grow our magicite? Board still has only 5 slots, didn't get a new one at 21...so monsters can be as high as level 40 but we seem to be stuck at about level 18 solo. Tanks and possibly w/rdm could probably handle a 20 but it would be a very slow kill and probably not getting that chain.

Nope we have some magicite quest related but they don't give them to us.

Yeah you talk to Kril, she tell you to ge fetch the ball, you go, good job. Now go back to grind filthy noob see you in two level for the next.

Quest design for dummy/20

If they wanted us to grind mobs they should have added a level sync system. XP system isn't that great but it was on purpose since it was directly copied from XI. You had to find people exactly your level to stay in the bracket, would even have to ask everyone how close they were to level. Someone leveling would screw everyone else's EXP in XI as well if they left the bracket.

Level sync was added years later and how it worked was you could choose someone (usually the lowest person in the party) to sync down to so everyone's exp wasn't affected until the lowest leveled person graduated from the bracket. You could only sync down and not up.

Upside was that you could help new players, downside was that since you could sync if you found someone low enough, everyone just fought the easiest mobs since the base exp was capped at a certain amount (200) for a long time. (Colibri's)

Wouldn't work that great here since there doesn't seem to be a upper limit on the base cap, but you could still use it to fix someone leveling and screwing up the exp or helping someone fresh that was level 1 or 20.

"Hey I got an idea for pagos."
"Ok."
"Let's take away their mount again."
"BRILLIANT JEEVES."

Going to Pagos from Anemos doesn't feel like progression. It feels like punishment. I used up all my vacation doing Eureka for a good bit before heading out to RTX Friday, and now I've played Pagos I'm pretty annoyed. I grind EXP for my classes sure, but doing dungeons is infinitely more fun than Pagos. I managed to live in Eureka, but stepping into Pagos felt again, like I was PUNISHED. Mobs hit harder then most bosses, more health then most bosses, and here I am wasting time on a FATE - I'm sorry ENVIRONMENTAL ENCOUNTER or whatever - for no XP, no rabbit, and no bloody crystal. Not even a lockbox with freaking confetti. Nothing. That is not fun and engaging. That is not rewarding me for doing my best to DPS while idiots drag mobs in, nor me raising (I got Good Samaritan in Anemos). No, I feel like my entire hour - if that - in Pagos was being punished for being in Pagos.

I wanted that Katana. It reminds me of Kotetsu from Castrum Abania (my current glam). The rest of the weapons are blech to me.

But no katana is worth this. Power to you if you like this. But this feels like punishment above all else.

Yikes.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkIcczMV4AAofR9.jpg

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Originally Posted by Remus

Yikes.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkIcczMV4AAofR9.jpg

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I don't even have a meme that would convey how I feel about this.

At this rate, I fear it's going to go in the same direction as Diadem. Say what you will about Anemos but it was actually possible to make a profit through it. A single NM would give you a bunch of lockboxes and they spawned frequently enough when not on a cooldown that you could count on clearing a string of them in fairly rapid succession.

Pagos is just a gil sink. I've spent more on repairs so far than I've made through lockboxes. You get less per FATE and don't even see FATE's spawn nearly as often as in Anemos. Furthermore, you only get experience from enemies - and that's only if you're in a group isolated from competing players. So it encourages people to head off into their own little corners and kills the social element that existed back in Anemos.

I just spent half an hour trying to create/get invited to a group as a RDM. Nobody replied. The 'NM train' approach is dead in the water, apparently...and even my joke suggestion to go and do the bunny FATE was ignored.

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Originally Posted by Xion136

I don't even have a meme that would convey how I feel about this.

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I think they really want to people to start relying on the challenge log for the bulk of their EXP at higher levels.

Regardless, there's still people who've managed to hit 35 already because the EXP apparently starts scaling up rather significantly at higher levels (I heard people claiming to have gotten 34K at the end of 30 chain from a level 34 monster at level 27).

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I just spent half an hour trying to create/get invited to a group as a RDM. Nobody replied. The 'NM train' approach is dead in the water, apparently...and even my joke suggestion to go and do the bunny FATE was ignored.

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People really are stick in the NM train mindset despite not realizing how laughably inefficient it is.

I grinded out around 300K EXP in around 50 minutes while waiting the local NM to appear, which was worth 100K.

Also, the rate the EXP needed to level scales up at along with the EXP from normal monsters is way higher then how quickly the NM EXP scales. NMs should always just be viewed as a bonus in Pagos unless you're okay with taking weeks to hit 35.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

.
A FATE that needs an RNG items from another FATE to even reward you the maximum XP. What?

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The silver reward for that fate is as high as a gold reward though.

Tbh speedwise Pagos feels pretty much like Anemos. No-Lifers do 4-5 levels a day or even more, being done after 5 days. Chain xp is way better than in the beginning of Anemos.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

People really are stick in the NM train mindset despite not realizing how laughably inefficient it is.

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Its not that much about efficiency, its about not having to grind trash mob for hours even at the cost of time, plus its the start, lets see how much time a full speed lv 35 train going to need to bring 300.000 xp to afk players.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Its not that much about efficiency, its about not having to grind trash mob for hours even at the cost of time, plus its the start, lets see how much time a full speed lv 35 train going to need to bring 300.000 xp to afk players.

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I don't think 35 players are going to even bother with that.
the level 25 mobs in Anemos had terrific drop rates, the one thing that is better in Pagos is the normal mobs.

I wouldn't be surprised is the grinding stuff at 35 strategy turns into finding a camp of level 40(+?) and working on them because bosses are way too slow to show up to be worthwhile

Think about it if your grinding for crystals are you going to spend 90 minutes trying to spawn snow queen for one or are you going to chain normal mobs that can give 10-15 at a time?

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Originally Posted by Nihility

I don't think 35 players are going to even bother with that.
the level 25 mobs in Anemos had terrific drop rates, the one thing that is better in Pagos is the normal mobs.

I wouldn't be surprised is the grinding stuff at 35 strategy turns into finding a camp of level 40(+?) and working on them because bosses are way too slow to show up to be worthwhile

Think about it if your grinding for crystals are you going to spend 90 minutes trying to spawn snow queen for one or are you going to chain normal mobs that can give 10-15 at a time?

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Do the chains actually drop the Pagos crystals though. I was chaining for 6 hours on Tuesday, and the only Pagos Crystals I received were from the NMs—not a single one dropped from the mobs we were killing (Blood Demon and the Worms). The Frosted Protean crystals, if I recall correctly from what I’ve read, come from your Light Farming.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

I don't think 35 players are going to even bother with that.
the level 25 mobs in Anemos had terrific drop rates, the one thing that is better in Pagos is the normal mobs.

I wouldn't be surprised is the grinding stuff at 35 strategy turns into finding a camp of level 40(+?) and working on them because bosses are way too slow to show up to be worthwhile

Think about it if your grinding for crystals are you going to spend 90 minutes trying to spawn snow queen for one or are you going to chain normal mobs that can give 10-15 at a time?

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People instantly start a train day one and he's going faster and faster as people start getting a lot of xp on those fates are leveling up, if you think that will change because a minority of player can endure the grind chore you'll be disapointed.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I think they really want to people to start relying on the challenge log for the bulk of their EXP at higher levels.

Regardless, there's still people who've managed to hit 35 already because the EXP apparently starts scaling up rather significantly at higher levels (I heard people claiming to have gotten 34K at the end of 30 chain from a level 34 monster at level 27).




People really are stick in the NM train mindset despite not realizing how laughably inefficient it is.

I grinded out around 300K EXP in around 50 minutes while waiting the local NM to appear, which was worth 100K.

Also, the rate the EXP needed to level scales up at along with the EXP from normal monsters is way higher then how quickly the NM EXP scales. NMs should always just be viewed as a bonus in Pagos unless you're okay with taking weeks to hit 35.

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I suspect it's more people found the NM train made Eureka tolerable. Now it literally boils down to killing endless amounts of mind-numbingly boring trash mobs that don't do anything interesting while the actual fun bosses barely spawn. What a stupid design philosophy. I haven't yet decided if I'll eventually grind this out or just skip the relic for the first time.

If I wanted a Korean style grind, I'd play one of those MMOs.

People tolerated the train, some people even liked the train. The mob grinding crowd was a firm minority but because that's what they wanted us doing the train was nerfed for round 2 :rolleyes:.

Update on the Japanese side of things, people *really* don't like Happy Bunnies and there are a few comments starting to pop up that Pagos is frustrating. Even a comment about how they don't like that the mount is not available.

There is hope yet.

They really need to rethink how they plan to handle Eureka.

there is a lot of miss potential to make Eureka unique from other parts of the game and provide both solo and group challenges but their focus on designing Eureka around a group content for mindless grinding only.

The challenge log is nice addition but I have to say good lukc for those who are behind on their levels because that stuff only benefits players who are leveling in a group of their same level range. If anything I think it may make people less likely to help players level their characters in Eureka.

Quick thought: they could have added far more magicite or similar items hidden all over the map and discovering them would yield some exp, like sightseeing logs. I think people would appreciate any alternative exp methods to supplement enemy grinding. The main flaw in eureka is enemy grinding alone is too shallow an activity to stretch for the amount of hours we need to spend there. You notice too quickly how repetitive and slow-motion it feels with enemies having a lot of HP and yielding little exp for the trouble to pad things out. We need more exp methods for variety, like discovery/sightseeing and the bunny thing, but let people have a guaranteed carrot per day from an npc at Icepoint and reward exp for uncovering the bunny loot.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

But did those people enjoy it, or simply do it for the rewards? From what I've seen, the majority fall into the latter. They begrudgingly did the content because they wanted their dyeable relic armor.

People were saying the exact same thing about Anemos, "you haven't even completed it yet, so you can't judge it." Well, they completed it, and guess what? Nothing about the content changed since their first impression. There was nothing new to discover. Everything was the same as the day they first entered.

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Or we begrudgingly did it for the mount and minions. Once I had those I quit as did other players I know of. Not even sure we will see any of those in Pagos for those of us more into collecting than glamour.

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Originally Posted by Yzuna

Well, if I'm not mistaking, the player base had some request that has never been granted.

Free Company content, harder 4 man content, and surely others things that I forgot.

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I wouldn't mind seeing some instanced stuff like ESO with Delves/Public dungeons or WoW with scenarios. They could be runs as part of the MSQ then run anytime you wanted after that.

Running the train in Anemos was moderately enjoyable. Pagos seems to be leaning towards pure mob grinding in a game that was designed so that mob grinding is pretty much objectively wrong in any situation. Based on what I've seen and what I've read from others, this isn't just because people need to level to make the train efficient, but because NMs just don't spawn as much. Pagos is, as of now, looking like it may be the single worst thing ever put in this game.

Admittedly, I did not enjoy Anemos much at first, but the NM train made it bearable and I liked the idea of being able to make relics quickly after finishing the leveling grind.

I'm really hoping we just don't know enough about Pagos yet because my experience has been unbelievably boring. I don't know if I can keep doing this if Pagos really is 95% grinding tanky mobs for tiny amounts of exp compared to how much is needed to level.

This is supposed to be a game that provides entertainment, right? Right now, it sort of reminds me of peeling potatoes. A whole lot of boring tedious work to make delicious things except for, in Pagos, we're peeling with a spoon so we can eat them raw.

So much boring work, so little reward.

I just spent a little over an hour grinding on Wyverns at level 24. When I started, I had almost no exp on my bar. Fulltime grinding and two NMs later (Brothers and Ash Dragon) and I was at 250k exp. Out of something like 835k.

My eyes were involuntarily closing, I was barely looking at the screen, timers and boredom made the party members rotate constantly, and at the end my wrists hurt.

So far, feels like a swing and a miss.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

They really need to rethink how they plan to handle Eureka.

there is a lot of miss potential to make Eureka unique from other parts of the game and provide both solo and group challenges but their focus on designing Eureka around a group content for mindless grinding only.

The challenge log is nice addition but I have to say good lukc for those who are behind on their levels because that stuff only benefits players who are leveling in a group of their same level range. If anything I think it may make people less likely to help players level their characters in Eureka.

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It's probably too late to rethink Eureka. Unless they are planning to release the last part right before 5.0 then they probably don't have enough time to make serious changes to their formula. Seeing as how since 3.1, starting with Diadem, till now they keep pushing such low effort unimaginative content I imagine they either can't or won't implement something better. Quite frankly unless enough people unsub and they understand its for how much they rehash content and don't do anything truly new, they have no reason to improve the quality of the content.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Do the chains actually drop the Pagos crystals though. I was chaining for 6 hours on Tuesday, and the only Pagos Crystals I received were from the NMs—not a single one dropped from the mobs we were killing (Blood Demon and the Worms). The Frosted Protean crystals, if I recall correctly from what I’ve read, come from your Light Farming.

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I've had the same result. One lockbox and crystal from one NM out of the few I participated in. I have yet to see anything other than XP from mobs.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Quick thought: they could have added far more magicite or similar items hidden all over the map and discovering them would yield some exp, like sightseeing logs. I think people would appreciate any alternative exp methods to supplement enemy grinding. The main flaw in eureka is enemy grinding alone is too shallow an activity to stretch for the amount of hours we need to spend there. You notice too quickly how repetitive and slow-motion it feels with enemies having a lot of HP and yielding little exp for the trouble to pad things out. We need more exp methods for variety, like discovery/sightseeing and the bunny thing, but let people have a guaranteed carrot per day from an npc at Icepoint and reward exp for uncovering the bunny loot.

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I have thought adding in unique crafting materials and treasure boxes like you see in Diadem would help by letting you do something other than mindlessly kill mobs.

Another great time in pagos. I saw about 6 mms in 1 hour I think this morning. All the while my pt just sat there having fun chaining. We only got silver once so that was cool to. I ate food today to boost dmg and get that 3% xp boost. I noticed the dragons would cast w.e ability back to back if I stunned it. Up to three times but I only have two stuns. Also I put all elemental points into one for maximum damage. None can stand in the way of the dragoon! Maybe tonight I'll form a "bunny party " farm up some mats.

Reasons to explore would be nice. Clickable lore fragments, chests, sightseeing points. Let us learn more about Anemos, give us a reason to explore this area. Just give us something to break the monotony, please.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Reasons to explore would be nice. Clickable lore fragments, chests, sightseeing points. Let us learn more about Anemos, give us a reason to explore this area. Just give us something to break the monotony, please.

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This.

FFXIV marketed itself as an MMO that took its storytelling and world building serious. With that in mind, it's worrying that side content seems to miss that mark.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Reasons to explore would be nice. Clickable lore fragments, chests, sightseeing points. Let us learn more about Anemos, give us a reason to explore this area. Just give us something to break the monotony, please.

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So much this.

Especially if they rotate and refresh daily with (very) large exp rewards.

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

Another great time in pagos. I saw about 6 mms in 1 hour I think this morning. All the while my pt just sat there having fun chaining. We only got silver once so that was cool to. I ate food today to boost dmg and get that 3% xp boost. I noticed the dragons would cast w.e ability back to back if I stunned it. Up to three times but I only have two stuns. Also I put all elemental points into one for maximum damage. None can stand in the way of the dragoon! Maybe tonight I'll form a "bunny party " farm up some mats.

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https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/08...932ff12bc2.jpg

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Reasons to explore would be nice. Clickable lore fragments, chests, sightseeing points. Let us learn more about Anemos, give us a reason to explore this area. Just give us something to break the monotony, please.

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Found the ESO player. (And I agree, I love the open world in ESO).