Bunny outfits for men, not a cryptid!

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Originally Posted by Leglibe

Exactly. This is exactly what (SOME) people asked for, removing gender locks on female glamours. And then it comes out and they (the people who did not want this and explicitly asked on the forums for a masculine implementation) cry (are disappointed) that it's not what they asked for. I actually feel bad for Yoshi P and the dev team, because they can't win with this.

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Fixed some of that for you.

If we're judging developers winning or losing based on player reaction and feedback, then developers are used to losing. They don't need you to defend their feelings or apologize on behalf of the playerbase.

SE could have communicated their plans and intents much, much better to avoid this situation from the start.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but a lot of folks who are upset are forgetting that there is a huge culture difference between the west and east. So while bunny suits for males that are not copy pasted are common sense in the west, it is not the same over in Japan. For one, it's possible the deviation wasn't translated properly to the devs and its likely that they hadn't understood why the western player base wanted make bunny suits. I think a lot of folks are ignoring the cultural difference in their anger.

I don't see how you can really communicate a glamour, especially a "Male Bunny Outfit". If you can't figure out what that looks like in your head based on in game assets then I don't know what to tell you. So communication doesn't seem to be an issue, I am sure they thought this was a joke for the longest time synonymous with "Detotated wam" and tried to laugh it off. Until it became such an issue with people whining about not having it for male characters.

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Originally Posted by Miste

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Appreciate SE?! Are you insane?! THESE ARE THE OFFICIAL FORUMS NO APPRECIATION OF SE EVER ALLOWED NEGATIVITY ONLY!!!11!1!shift+1

(I completely agree with you Miste :P)

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Originally Posted by Niqote

Hardly anyone wears the female top either.
Just take the ears and run guys.

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This is kind of my feeling right now.

The bunny ears being gender-locked in the first place was asinine (though I had no care to have them). When I saw the whole outfit, I immediately knew it would cause friction. On one hand, yay no gender-lock, on the other hand, I knew people were asking for a male variant in previous threads. Having let this stew somewhere in the back of my mind for a day, I come back with a fresh, but old, perspective: gender-locks need to be taken away, and shouldn't have been a thing on in-game obtainable gear in the first place.

They want different looks on a set of themed gear? Dynamic looks! They've already done that with things like the Shisui sets, and things like DRG AF1, or the AST AF sets.

While it's not what various people wanted, I see this as the following: a step in the right direction, but with a compromise. In the end though, this is my thought after seeing all of this:

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Originally Posted by SicariusSeven

Nice that males are finally getting it but there is 0 difference. If this what SE was going to do from the start, then it should have been implemented since day one.

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I just have to add that I wouldn't have minded something along the lines of this, but it's been so long, and I think it can be replicated (maybe sans bowtie), I would just run away with the bunny ears and call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Both have models though, just not always 3D. That doesn't mean that they lack models.

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With VERY few exceptions chest and pant models are textures that are painted on to the body models. The only exceptions I've seen, which is just like 2 or 3 pieces of gear, were like some protruding octagons or something.

LMAO. Welp. You know what. I'm not even mad. Now if they'd do this with the Thav dress >>;

LOLOLOLOLOL

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Originally Posted by Miste

This is the first time, as far as I remember, that they have ever changed a female locked glamour to being able to be worn by males.


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They did it at least once before when they released a new version of the spring skirt that was not gender locked (also having looked it up on loadestone they even changed the model slightly)

If it's really the outfit just unlocked, then we also got our cuffs. The puffy sleeves are part of the shirt on my lady Elezen so this is another piece that we really wanted. The funny thing is that I'd have had basically what I wanted originally (minus the vest thingie) if the Spring Bottoms were not what they are which kind of amuses me.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

They did it at least once before when they released a new version of the spring skirt that was not gender locked (also having looked it up on loadestone they even changed the model slightly)

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Well I should have been more clear I meant an entire set.

The skirt is just one piece and I am unsure on if the community requested it a lot or if SE did it on their own.

Also like you said the skirt is slightly different so it isn't the same thing as giving males the exact same thing as females have like with this bunny set unlock.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

I was looking at old threads and seems that back then you somewhat understood it, but now are choosing not to.

Either way, not surprised coming from a catgirl. It's always catgirls and Au Ra coming to these threads to argue against a topic that doesn't affect them, and a topic where they are already favored.

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I'm sorry, what was the purpose of quoting an old post? I remember the thread, I just don't understand why you bothered quoting me slightly out of context like it was supposed to prove something.

Just a few rebuttals.

First, that was a thread predominantly about the ears specifically and not the entire outfit (which is even what I was talking about in the post you quoted. I was responding to the person just above me who said people should be asking for a male version of the ears). Second, nowhere in that thread does anyone request a masculine version of the bunny suit. Lastly, nothing I've said here has contradicted what I said back then. I still support male-exclusive glamours. I still support more locked items becoming unisex (including the bunny suit). I still think all gear should be unisex within reason. I still don't understand why people act like SE does (or doesn't do) things out of spite.

All I said here was I don't remember seeing anyone requesting a masculine version outside of different ears. I've always seen people say they want what the females have or only say "bunny suit" without specifics. The thread you felt the need to quote me from actually supports that.

Don't fall off of that highhorse because it's a long way down for a Lala.

Thank you though for providing posts from a thread where people did request a more Chippendale appearance, that's one of the threads I missed. Just, you know, lead with that next time instead of a poor attempt at an ad hominem gotcha.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

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I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, I just want to point something out. Within the context of the game, as well as society as a whole, male and masculine do not go hand in hand. Think of it this way, male and female are indicators of sex, while masculine and feminine are indicators of gender.

People were asking for a male version because they wanted a version made for males, they didn't want a masculine version; they wanted it to remain feminine. There is plenty of gear in the game that is worn by females that would be considered masculine, most armor set would be included in this, regardless of the amound of skin showing. Also there is plenty of gear worn by males that would be considered feminine, like most mage sets. It's better to think of masculine beind synonymous with hard (no pun intended) and feminine being synonymous with soft (again no pun).

Hopefully that clears it up a little as to why a good amount of people are upset. It isn't because it isn't masculine, it's because it's not designed for a male. Mascilinity and Femininity are just traits, nothing more. A really good example I can think of right now is the Little Lady's Day gear, each is clearly designed for each sex, but both are feminine.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

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What did people expect? How DO you make something intended for female to look masculine? They heard "Bunny suits for males plz" and that's really all they had to go on. Japan doesn't normally deal with USA's "specific" gender issues, so lots of stuff was lost in context

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but a lot of folks who are upset are forgetting that there is a huge culture difference between the west and east. So while bunny suits for males that are not copy pasted are common sense in the west, it is not the same over in Japan. For one, it's possible the deviation wasn't translated properly to the devs and its likely that they hadn't understood why the western player base wanted make bunny suits. I think a lot of folks are ignoring the cultural difference in their anger.

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and such issues would not happen if they take an active measure to communicate with us, not simply message sending back and forth, hence this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Community-team

Who's fault is it for not understanding cultural differences?
I am just tried of lazy copy paste solutions in general

Can we go back to crying about Butt sliders now.

Priorities, guys!

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

and such issues would not happen if they take an active measure to communicate with us, not simply message sending back and forth, hence this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Community-team

Who's fault is it for not understanding cultural differences?
I am just tried of lazy copy paste solutions in general

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I mean, it was said in an interview a year ago they were working on removing the gender restriction on the bunny outfit, which is what people were requesting (bunny outfit for males when? Bunny ears for males when? etc).

The fact SE decided to just do a copy-paste is better than what they could have gone with if they took requests 'literally.' Bunny outfit could have been just as it's called: a bunny costume (think reindeer or pig costume).

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

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I think the meaning behind what I said was lost. I wasn't saying there couldn't have been any confusion. I was simply indicating that male and masculine aren't mutually exclusive. But your own words betray you. Saying they heard "bunny suit for males" indicates exactly that. It's in a lot of the threads about this topic that the playerbase wanted a male "version" to go with the female one.

Oh, and the whole USA specific thing has no weight. First, what I said isn't cultural, at all, it's a part of human society. If anything, the USA is limited since we are only familiar with the two terms, other cultures have more than just masculine and feminine.

Second, although this is a Japanese game made in Japan, why does everyone assume the developers know nothing of other cultures. Specifically, when three quarters of the teams work on the other versions of the game. Plus don't forget that Foxclon, the Japanese/global community rep is fluent in English. Not saying he's good at it, and lets be honest lots of native speakers aren't either, but he'd be able to get the info first hand form both sides; not sure about French or German for obvious reasons.

Now I'm not saying all of this to start anything, I am just pointing it out.

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Originally Posted by yeppers

I am disappointed to see that resources from SE go into things like this. How about instead of whining about glamours, they actually put that time into making better content. Think about how bad this looks from the outside. People see the ff community raging over glamours, male bunny suit glamours. Is that going to get people to play the game or take us seriously?

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These are not the same people, as others have mentioned already. They can work on more than one thing at a time, and this is primarily an art issue (making sure the models work on male characters and adjusting as needed).

It's not like they had a network programming specialist working on this.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Fixed some of that for you.

If we're judging developers winning or losing based on player reaction and feedback, then developers are used to losing. They don't need you to defend their feelings or apologize on behalf of the playerbase.

SE could have communicated their plans and intents much, much better to avoid this situation from the start.

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People said "we want the bunny suit for males". SE said a year ago they were going to unlock it. People didn't say "no wait, what we really want is something entirely different" until we got the bunny suit.

There is a communication issue here, but it's not on SE's end. People said "we want X!". SE said "we'll give you X". SE gave us X. We then came back with "but we really wanted Y!" This is a surprisingly common thing in software development and one of the reasons that developers should never be slaves to the wishes of their users: users are notoriously bad at telling you what they actually want because they often don't know themselves. Figuring out how to take feedback and use it to determine what should actually be done is a well paid profession for a reason.

Claiming that more communication was needed on this is asking for a paralysis inducing level of overhead on doing anything. This was a trivial request. If that requires a full Q&A session and extended community feedback gathering to understand, nothing will ever get done except consultation.

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Originally Posted by Solarra

My first impression was this has to be a joke. This was what took them so long? This?!?

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Strictly speaking, not wanting to do it at all is what took them so long. The actual effort involved likely wasn't very high. But it was also never a priority, so it sat around in a to-do pile until someone had nothing better to do.

This was a bad idea and this thread is proof why. Hopefully they don't make this mistake again. Last thing this game needs is to become like Tera

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Originally Posted by kamenkuro

This was a bad idea and this thread is proof why. Hopefully they don't make this mistake again. Last thing this game needs is to become like Tera

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they could of just did bunny ears long ago and see how people reacted at that point? I mean the pic is pretty cringe, i legit thought it was a joke.

They could have, but people also said "bunny outfit," so they're doing what they did with the Setzer gear and making it unisex.

Some find it "cringe," others do not.

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Originally Posted by kamenkuro

This was a bad idea and this thread is proof why. Hopefully they don't make this mistake again. Last thing this game needs is to become like Tera

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Gold Saucer Playboy rabbit glamour has been a thing for females since 2.5. Tera, as far as I've cared to look, doesn't really let males (especially the beastmen-types) dress up in "revealing sexy" gear to that extent.

With the exception of the DRG AF1 body, progression gear has been pretty equal in design for both males and females. Females aren't reduced to wearing bikinis and/or strings and instead wear what the males wear (and the reverse applies for males when it comes to some Casting/Healing gear. I do not like the Shivan gear as it looks weird on my Roegadyn, but I guess it looks decent on characters not made of muscles).

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Strictly speaking, not wanting to do it at all is what took them so long. The actual effort involved likely wasn't very high. But it was also never a priority, so it sat around in a to-do pile until someone had nothing better to do.

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So, to quote this from PAX East 2016:

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I was wondering if there are an plans to do away with gender-locking on gear.

We understand what you mean – especially a lot of gear from the Gold Saucer is gender-locked. To take all of the things that are gender-locked currently and make them available for male and female characters would take a lot of time and resources, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t want to. We’d like to do it a little bit at a time, and so we want feedback from you guys. Tell us what gear you want us to start with, and we’ll prioritize starting from th- [shouts from all over: “BUNNY GEAR!”; Yoshida laughs.] We get that a lot! You really want that bunny gear for everybody? <cheers> Please look forward to it! <cheers intensify> Also, when you start giving feedback, let’s keep it in one forum. It’s tough for Matt. One thread, not a hundred threads. It’ll be a lot easier to tell the team what you want.

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I'm whatever about the gear and frankly, I was expecting it to be the same one as the females. What I don't like is that I already expect this to be a different item set instead of just gender-unlocking the existing one.

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Originally Posted by Leglibe

Exactly. This is exactly what people asked for, removing gender locks on female glamours. And then it comes out and they cry that it's not what they asked for. I actually feel bad for Yoshi P and the dev team, because they can't win with this.

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I think no one would have had such an issue with this, if it had happend in a timely manner. Its been how long since the first female bunny outfit now? 2 years? 3 years? Bad enough that it wasnt released at the same time, but if the male bunny outfit would have been in the Gold Saucer like half a year later, it would have been okay (not great - just okay).

What happend however was that we've been told and told again that they're "working on it". That they have people desiging/modeling something. At somepoint during the last year they claimed they'd finished the outfit for a few races, but needed time for the rest. Its been delayed and delayed again - while, at the same time, new glamour gear (to be fair: for both genders) was released. Which makes one wonder how that was possible but this outfit took over 2 years...
So I can understand people being upset about this.

And yes, in general I agree with the sentiment of "the devs cant win this" because someone will always dislike something. But this one they lost because they played badly.
Honestly, the release of the outfit now seems like them throwing the towel to me - "We tried, we cant some up with a real male version of this... lets just copy&paste the female one"

Wether you like the outfit or not is a question of personal taste (I wasnt a fan of the female bunny outfit to begin with... except for the ears). And the question wether or not men should wear fishnets isnt excatly one we need to discuss here either.
However, how the whole thing was handled could have been much, much better and faster. Nothing here warrants a 2+ year hold up and multiple "We're working on it"s.
(Personally I'd be a bit less upset about this if they'd truely just remove all gender locks now - in that case I would have even understood taking 2 years for it. But for one set of glamour gear...? Nope.)

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Originally Posted by kamenkuro

This was a bad idea and this thread is proof why. Hopefully they don't make this mistake again. Last thing this game needs is to become like Tera

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The idea wasn't bad; it's the lack of effort put into it for the delay. This would've been fine if it was done quick as is. This would've been fine if it took this long with them making entirely new outfits.

Them taking this long with such lack of effort is what has people annoyed.

Imagine going to a restaurant and ordering a dessert, and it takes a while but they assure you they're working on it so it'll be special, and then comes out and hands you a bowl of ice cream with a chocolate bar shoved into it. I'm a fan of ice cream and chocolate bars but that'd be the last time I go there.

so ugly....

and ya maybe something more masculine.

I wasn't interested about it but i wasn't against it, if some people wanted it. But now we have a picture..... ewww

guys can be sexy without looking like a prostitute you know....

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

The idea wasn't bad; it's the lack of effort put into it for the delay. This would've been fine if it was done quick as is. This would've been fine if it took this long with them making entirely new outfits.

Them taking this long with such lack of effort is what has people annoyed.

Imagine going to a restaurant and ordering a dessert, and it takes a while but they assure you they're working on it so it'll be special, and then comes out and hands you a bowl of ice cream with a chocolate bar shoved into it. I'm a fan of ice cream and chocolate bars but that'd be the last time I go there.

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Lets take a step back and be really honest here; the community would be complaining regardless of when it was released because that is all we do. Can't people just be happy it got released at all....

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Originally Posted by Loki

so ugly....

and ya maybe something more masculine.

I wasn't interested about it but i wasn't against it, if some people wanted it. But now we have a picture..... ewww

guys can be sexy without looking like a prostitute you know....

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I wasn't aware male prostitutes wore bunny outfits.

I wouldn't call the look sexy in the slightest. But I am happy for the people who wanted the outfit.

I thought it was fantastic because 1) it's an exact copy for the men, 2) I don't find the outfit sexy on anyone, period, so I don't care that it's more hilarious than sexy, and 3) there aren't any (commercial) playboy bunny outfits for men IRL, so SE is making great strides in gender equality already even if it took 2 years (Playboy's been around for...how long?). Designing a legit sexy male bunny outfit would take an actual fashion designer...

Anyway, I will likely laugh any time I see it in-game, so mission accomplished. More power to you, guy toons! I will continue to dress my retainers as shirtless cowboys, though. XD

This thread is a fine example of how one sided and jacked up people's priorities are. /shrug

I don't know why I expected a positive reaction. I must have momentarily forgot which forum I was on.

I'm pretty happy things turned out like this honestly. People keep saying "oh but it took so long it's like they just gave up designing something new!". Or maybe it was never a new design in the first place? Maybe no plans to make it new?

I think SE should have been more clear what they were doing once they had the plans finalized, but I think players are to blame as well for getting it in their head somehow that the longer it takes the more likely it will be unique when there was no evidence of that being remotely true. For all we know they could have literally had 3 people working on it as a side project forcing it to take longer than anyone expected.

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Originally Posted by Bellsong

I think SE should have been more clear what they were doing once they had the plans finalized, but I think players are to blame as well for getting it in their head somehow that the longer it takes the more likely it will be unique when there was no evidence of that being remotely true. For all we know they could have literally had 3 people working on it as a side project forcing it to take longer than anyone expected.

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They were painfully clear. It's not Square Enix's issue that even native English speakers don't know English.

In every single quote (like the one on previous page) brought up from what Yoshida said about bunny outfit, all they talk about is removing the gender lock. There was not a single instance where he said about making a different bunny suit. How more clear could he make it? People just ASSUMED that if it takes this long, that they are making a new one. They assumed...because apparently taking something at face value is passe...

About 15% of people have dyslexia. That means that about 15% of people do not understand what they are reading. That means that there are tens of millions of people that cannot understand what they are reading in USA alone. There is NO WAY to be clear enough for no one to misunderstand. It's just impossible.

Blaming SE for take 2 years in do the same that they did for the female outfit sounds accurate to me. If they have 3 peoples for do this, and those peoples need 2 years in do the job, I... I just don't know how THAT seem to be OK, for a company like SE.

They even explained like if they was doing something unique, not just a ''copy&paste''. I do blame them for that, they have the resorces for do better things, in time.
If people want to stand 100% to SE, do it. But many people don't think like this is correct.
The dev team lose here, sorry. They need to start to realise how to handle this things the next time.

It's not just the outfit, it's how the game is going to the future...

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

But the thing is, the original posts and requests were for a male bunny outfit, not a Chippendale outfit. So that's what the devs saw. I am stating that people (makers of those threads, which probably got the most likes and are therefore what the devs thought was wanted) were outraged there was no male bunny suit, so they made one. Now people are reacting to that saying they expected something else, when, from the devs eyes, they delivered what people wanted. But I digress, I am simply going to be taken as someone who is against male characters getting things because I play a female.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

On these forums at least, I don't remember seeing a single person requesting a more masculine version. Every single time they either specified wanting the same exact one females had or they only said "bunny suit" which is 100% open to interpretation and any reasonable person would rightfully assume they're requesting the female one.

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Here you go. Now we can stop pretending no one at all wished for a bunny outfit for males that didn't look like women's clothes.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

A bit like how I imagine our male bunny set to be. Except it would be better with trousers instead of fishnets like the chippendales pics you can find on google.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

I'd like nice shiny shorts or chaps with a collar/bow tie, cuffs and the bunny decorations. An alternate set of ears like the ladies have would be good. I would also personally like a version of the shorts (if they do shorts) with fishnets but understand if that is too risqué; it would go nicely with a lot of existing caster gear though which often pushes that particular envelope.

When someone released the thread requesting bare chested suspenders I wondered briefly whether we might get that instead of the bare chest and tie look. It could be interesting and since it wouldn't really be appropriate on female models, it would be a decent opportunity to use the idea.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

No, it should be a Chippendale.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

The male version should be chippendales-esque. Like a collar with a bow and no shirt. And pants with a bunny tail. And shoes with bows on them. That would be equivalent to the female outfit.

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Originally Posted by Adire

There's a big difference. Most of the skimpy outfits for men in this game are clearly designed for men or are at least unisex. A man in a speedo is a man in skimpy men's clothing. A man in a bikini (i.e. with the top) with high heels is a man in skimpy women's clothing. Big difference.

I think the bunny suit people have in mind for men here involves fishnets, maybe heels, frilly sleeves, a bunny tail....etc, right? That's by all standards very feminine. A butler-like suit as someone mentioned would not be and would be acceptable to me.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Here you go. Now we can stop pretending no one at all wished for a bunny outfit for males that didn't look like women's clothes.

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Well if no one actually told the Dev Team what they wanted, it would be easy to assume they just wanted a male bunny outfit. Is Chippendale even a thing in Japan? Perhaps going forward, people should have some kind of concept art to show Yoshi-P so the team doesn't mistake what the fans really want?

Even when people get a bone thrown to them, they still nitpick about the bone not being the right size, density, color, etc...

You just can't please certain people and that's a problem game developers face all of the time. You either please all or none, there's never any middle ground.

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Originally Posted by dejiko_san

Well if no one actually told the Dev Team what they wanted, it would be easy to assume they just wanted a male bunny outfit.

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Piggy-backing off this, the feedback/interview dialogue that made it directly to/from Yoshi-P himself (Game watch interview/PAX East that Mahrze posted a page or so back) were specifying "getting rid of the gender lock/making it for everybody." Nobody ever stopped him in both instances and said: "hey, hey, hey wait, we don't want it for both genders, we want a separate, new one for males only."

Sorry to say, but just because some people spoke out here about wanting something different from the female version, doesn't mean that particular feedback would make it to the devs and they would do a 180 from the other direct feedback they received.

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Originally Posted by dejiko_san

Well if no one actually told the Dev Team what they wanted, it would be easy to assume they just wanted a male bunny outfit. Is Chippendale even a thing in Japan? Perhaps going forward, people should have some kind of concept art to show Yoshi-P so the team doesn't mistake what the fans really want?

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We told the dev team what we wanted on these forums as you can well see. I hope you're not trying to imply it's our fault if the CMs aren't doing their job of sending our feedback forward. And the thread my quotes were from had some pictures so don't blame the lack of examples either. (Not like professional designers with professional translators should need pictures to find out what a word means in the era of Google.)

What is likely the case here is that a unique outfit for males just wasn't as much in demand as a copy paste women's outfit for males. There is no helping it if one's opinion is unpopular, but it would be great if fellow players didn't try to invalidate a viewpoint by pretending it didn't exist until now.

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Originally Posted by dejiko_san

Well if no one actually told the Dev Team what they wanted, it would be easy to assume they just wanted a male bunny outfit. Is Chippendale even a thing in Japan? Perhaps going forward, people should have some kind of concept art to show Yoshi-P so the team doesn't mistake what the fans really want?

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Are you serious?
I mean... They were working 2 years for a male outfit. They said that, but they did just a gender unlock.
But we can't complain about that? They don't need ideas, they just need to do it better or expose better what they're doing. Just that.