Open world PvP Zone

Last I recall, they're not against the idea. They even mused about how a WHM using Assize during a hunt would effectively attack everyone else, but also noted that many aspects of the game as it currently is wouldn't work well with OWPvP. They did say however that they'd consider PvP servers if there was enough demand for it. . . Of course, you have players literally threatening unsubbing in fear of even that becoming a reality.

Well I just don't get why we would go in such area.
It can't be a zone with story in it (it's not the spirit of the game to have casual players forced to be killed in chain to reach an npc because of sneaky players in order to complete story --> can't be an Open World zone then, or we admit Front is an Open world zone.
I don't see SE either make a part where you have to get friends to protect you while you are gathering items (mining/fishing).
If the mine/botanist spots are on safe points, it's too easy to reach them for some classes, especially with PvE skills (Ninja stealth/healers/Paladin/DRK invincibility, a team made of several of them, and just need one to get to the point to collect the item in the safe zone). Let's admit of course the marriage skills don't work here, or of course it would be even much more easier to get where we want.
It can't be a zone with PvE skills as they don't want us to fight with pve skills not designed especially for PvP.
It would be a zone we can go anytime we want, if it's an open world one. And it also need rewarding things like doing Fates and gathering spots giving more interesting things than others in order to make it worth. Which would end to have people doing it when no ones around (we know how much people like the current pvp system...) so at night, or when people are at work : --> highly unfair if the rewards are really worth. Or it would need the zone to be open at certain hours.

Edit : Also, if there will be any PvE kind of fight, it means PvE skills, and if there is PvP, it means PvP skills. So it would mean PvE monsters with stats according to PvP skills?

Sorry if what I said was already said and maybe countered, but I don't feel like reading a dead topic (no offense) of 21pages.

Why do ppl afk in idyllshire or limsa? crafters, teens, run sellers, and drama queens mostly interact there. that's pvp too.
I'm fine if it doesn't have any story or objectives/fates as long it's as big and complex as idyllshire.
Every kind of interactions you're going to have is person to person, gatherers wouldn't fit there.

I have no objection to the idea of an open map just for pvp, and I don't care about the pvp in this game at all.

I have no issue with it as long as there is nothing else there that makes people who are not interested in pvp go there. AKA it must have no pve content. You go there to pvp and nothing else. If the place ends up being a failure, I guess the pvp itself isn't good enough.

If this was added, I'd even pay it a visit sometimes. I used to hang out at pvp arenas in another mmo and watch people fight, often getting involved myself.

Most zones in this game are already dead and there is absolutely no reason to ever revisit them, aside from hunts. I liked how FFXI had certain pvp zones, and you could watch them fight each other while running through. Something like Ballista would be great for this game, though I imagine there would only be excuses as to why they couldn't make it happen.

NO to fates and gathering in the PVP zone. Anything that has to do with PVE needs to stay PVE so we don’t have players needlessly being ganker bait. Ugh, everytime someone suggests it in this thread I have bad dreams about other games where I couldn’t get from place to place because some jerk was camping the quest or gathering points to be a down right (bleeps myself.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisagami

NO to fates and gathering in the PVP zone. Anything that has to do with PVE needs to stay PVE so we don’t have players needlessly being ganker bait. Ugh, everytime someone suggests it in this thread I have bad dreams about other games where I couldn’t get from place to place because some jerk was camping the quest or gathering points to be a down right (bleeps myself.)

---

..thats kind of the point though. I mean, open world pvp equals ganking; objective and arena pvp is designed to be fair. Ideally the players self police themselves and not gank to the detriment of the game, as well as protect newbies and vulnerable people. Its just never really worked that way. But any open world is going to have serious ganking.

Just love how we're dealing in absolutes here.

If it's a PvP zone, then content within ought to concern PvP only.This would include something like FATEs or gathering, which I agree might be impractical, but if a node there only provided items useful to/for PvP, it'd remain a non-issue. Don't like/don't want to PvP but you need that node? Send a friend; I have a crafter friend that makes me things for free in exchange for any tradable items that can only be purchased with Wolf Marks.

That said, and pardon my rudeness - I'm inexplicably, physically sore today so I'm in a rather nasty mood - I find it quite appalling that PvPers ask for a clearrly-defined zone, and have been pitching idea after idea to find a compromise, and hardly a fair one for themselves, yet openly-biased PvE-focused players are so worried about making sure they don't miss out on their interests or are forced to have to even look at it. 90% of the game and its community already solely care about your interests, and would happily watch PvP in this game burn and be forgotten. Why then is it so intolerable for PvPers to get a little something? Hell, you even get your XP from what used to be our endgame now. What more do you even want?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Why then is it so intolerable for PvPers to get a little something?

---

I'm not saying don't get it. Its just you guys seem to not understand open world pvp at all.

I think you believe open world pvp is like the wolf's den, just bigger and with no one-on-one restriction. What it means in practice is that 24 of your buddies on discord will form up into an adhoc alliance in order to gank people coming into the zone. The pve stuff in those games is designed to hopefully break up your buddies by spreading them out to search areas, as well as give people a reason to even enter the zone when they learn the Discorders are there again. Maybe they can sneak in to steal some wolfmarks or what have you from nodes and get out before they get ganked, or get some quick light or what have you. Maybe if they stay in zone long enough to kill enemies, they get a bonus to tome collection in pve. Otherwise, what will happen is that people will only zone in when they also can get 24 buddies on discord to have a decent fight. And that means a lot of dead time aimlessly waiting for fights.

If you don't have some kind of pve in it, you run into the problem where players don't have a reason to risk being farmed. You kind of need people to be willing to be prey in order to make open world pvp work. That means you need them to be willing to accept being ganked due to numerical disadvantage at times. Otherwise the buddies on discord will more or less force the zone to be empty unless you get 24 of your buddies to fight them.

Otherwise it would just be a place that is empty except for "open pvp saturdays" when you try to get people in there and hope that your buddies on discord don't premade and farm the noobs nonstop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisagami

NO to fates and gathering in the PVP zone. Anything that has to do with PVE needs to stay PVE so we don’t have players needlessly being ganker bait. Ugh, everytime someone suggests it in this thread I have bad dreams about other games where I couldn’t get from place to place because some jerk was camping the quest or gathering points to be a down right (bleeps myself.)

---

But there have been many things in this thread to address your fear.

1: PVP zone.
Why couldn't a fate exist? PVE'ers would just stay in their PVE zones anyway. Could even make PVP-fates, where people in the fate fight each other and dying doesn't act like normal but instead auto-revives within the fate area after 5 seconds.
Gathering: as long as the gathered item was available in both a PVE and PVP zone, or the item is unique to the zone but only used for PVP rewards exchanges (or something like that), it wouldn't harm anything.

2: PVP flag
PVP would be opt-in. By default it would be turned off and the only way a player could attack another player would be if PVP was turned on for both. A PVE-er would just never turn the flag on.

Either of these suggestions would work.

And I'm saying this as a person who HATES open world pvp because I got ganked in WoW on a PVE server in the PVP zones, but that's because WoW didn't have any flags to opt-in and there were quests from the PVE storyline that led to into the PVP areas, so a PVE-er like me doing the PVE storylines would end up there, often without realizing. (I wouldn't be opposed to quests that start, and remain, in pvp areas, but one starting in PVE land and going through PVP, like it did in WoW back when I played, would be a no-no if flags didn't also exist).

I know being ganked sucks, I've cursed at my screen many times in such games, but don't just say no without considering the various suggestions in this thread on how to overcome that. I don't think anyone here is asking for the old fashioned open world pvp of being able to attack anyone almost anywhere regardless of pvp interest.

I think Thirdchild is more reacting to Adeacia post : "I have no issue with it as long as there is nothing else there that makes people who are not interested in pvp go there. AKA it must have no pve content. You go there to pvp and nothing else."

Sounds a bit selfish, imo. "Oh ok, I'm all for it, get this thing as long as it's worthless (100% fun, right? you should be happy, pvp players). Maybe I'll join you casually when I'm bored for fun".

Which means not even glamour that could interest pve players, I guess?..

Thx there are already mounts, the cheerleader pet, some songs, some titles, and even some pve gears (now glamour) to get with the current system.

Or maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "as long as there is nothing else there that makes people who are not interested in pvp go there".

Open world pvp have been bad in every mmo that I have been played, I dont believe it work here either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

-

---

In many ways pvp is as gimped as rp, but much worse. There are requests for rp server or having instances cleared of mobs and timer. Yes we can still queue as premades but it's still timed and no unsync option with just our premades. RP has the benefit of pve open world without a timer, pvp don't. This wouldn't be a problem if wolves den aren't limited to dueling, pvpers would find the space to squeze as many we can. Same like RPers will squeeze as many play in every city they can gather together as a group. There's only so much we can squeeze though, open world provides living/playing spaces for more than 1 group. For non-RPing crowd, they either tune out to another map or the RP group the one to move. PvE groups (always) have that options, pvp groups don't.

Im not sure what you mean uvu.

Looking at some old screenshots earlier, I was thinking how nice it'd be if we could duel in a place like the Royal Menagerie, or the Coral Banquet in the Ruby Sea, or hell any "just there" island in the Sea of Clouds. Nothing would change, duels would still have to be by-request and the request would have to be accepted, and anyone who's tried it knows you absolutely cannot target another player during a duel, even if they're standing right in front of you.

Even that would be a small step forward, and might actually give it some exposure. I believe someone did say they didn't even know it was possible to duel in game.

Actually every time I go to most zones, its rare to find more than one other person besides me. Most people hang in limsa or wait at FC housing. You'd have to add duel squares in the three major cities to get any real attention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunako

Open world pvp have been bad in every mmo that I have been played, I dont believe it work here either.

---

Did you play Wintergrasp?

I think if pvp players want to gather in an open world pvp area it should be allowed but no items should be different. If you want the risk go for it, you do have stealth. There is alot of interesting encounters that could happen over the straggle of resources. Keep things interesting, after all you could just not zone there if this sort of thing doesn't interest you.

[QUOTE=ThirdChild_ZKI;4526539]Just love how we're dealing in absolutes here.

That said, and pardon my rudeness - I'm inexplicably, physically sore today so I'm in a rather nasty mood - I find it quite appalling that PvPers ask for a clearrly-defined zone, and have been pitching idea after idea to find a compromise, and hardly a fair one for themselves, yet openly-biased PvE-focused players are so worried about making sure they don't miss out on their interests or are forced to have to even look at it. 90% of the game and its community already solely care about your interests, and would happily watch PvP in this game burn and be forgotten. Why then is it so intolerable for PvP

Wow you really put some truth in this thread. We have been looking at all ways to make this a thing. There has to be some ground here for us. A system such as this would be so anime mmo it would do so well the pve'er would be so jelly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Actually every time I go to most zones, its rare to find more than one other person besides me. Most people hang in limsa or wait at FC housing. You'd have to add duel squares in the three major cities to get any real attention.

---

Yeah im on Balmung and theres plenty of zones where you find no one at times. To your idea about that place in The Ruby Sea, everytime i see those circled areas i think what it COULD be. If such additions do not come to,it would be a damn shame.

Small sidebar to Riyah's comment: for all that madness at launch I never see ANYONE in Shirogane on my server, and I spend a lot of time there. I did even before plots opened.

Look, if there’s a need to bait “prey” into the PVP zone to even be relevant for PVPers, I don’t want this system in the game. If I wanted Open World PVP, I’d still be playing Archeage as the Lemon Goddess who had the Lemon God put away for a max sentence. If you need to lure reluctant, and, or unaware PVE players into the zone to even give PVPers people to PVP against, then there just aren’t enough PVPers to warrant it. The point I am making, if there are enough PVPers to PVP against each other, then by all means go for it, as long as those who want to quest, craft, and just relax in a fantasy story against PVE characters aren’t forced to be involved just to reach our end game.

Sure, we have competition against PVE characters, lots of violence, but at least these NPCs aren’t screaming about (bleepin) my Mom and “teabagging” me if I lose. It’s why they removed most chat from the Feast. If it wasn’t needed to keep the toxicity down, we’d still have chat there, right? They don’t do anything in this game like that unless it is entirely necessary to keep the peace. And anyone who is toxic in Limsa are easily reported for harassment; on my server it’s a rare thing to see such behavior. This is the concern we peace-loving PVE people are concerned about. Open world PVP, if done wrong, can ruin the pleasant atmosphere of a game. Their focus is cooperation. Why else would we have such a focus on mentoring? They want us to work together not against each other.

Saying we PVE-ers shouldn’t have a say is wrong because it affects us too. Especially if the target audience needs “prey” for it to even work. I don’t want to be lured in to become prey just because I’m not very good at PVP.

Kisagami, i think its pretty much a given that if they do this, its an opt in. I meant it that you have to give reasons for those who do pvp to put up with being prey. You cant just have the zone, stick people in, and expect it to go well; even pvpers will leave if they get farmed enough. So you put in some pve style activities to help balance that out. I wouldn't worry, I don't think forced open world is ever on the table.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Kisagami, i think its pretty much a given that if they do this, its an opt in. I meant it that you have to give reasons for those who do pvp to put up with being prey. You cant just have the zone, stick people in, and expect it to go well; even pvpers will leave if they get farmed enough. So you put in some pve style activities to help balance that out. I wouldn't worry, I don't think forced open world is ever on the table.

---

Some people have argued for it. I’ve been here since the birth of this thread and it is a huge conceen for me. I left other games to avoid their Open World PVP because there was no eacaping it for me. Even i BDO, everything was fine until I hit a certain level and then I was being knocked off my horse just heading town to town.

I kept my mouth shut on it earlier, but the fundamental flaw in the reasoning mentioned prior is that no one going into a PvP ANYTHING considers themselves "prey". That very idea is weak and unhelpful in the sense of wanting to compete or simply fight against other players. Sure, some people might be looking for easy targets, and while that's their preference, it's pathetic. Most PvPers however, simply enjoy the challenge of competition, and when there's no challenge, there's no enjoyment. Just look at all the dry ass "expert" content people are so enthusiastic about right now, right?

That said, please stop painting this broad narrative of "everyone just wants to gank you there". If I know you and we're not actively competing, I'd be just as likely to stop and talk as I would defend myself viciously if you attacked. Of course, I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure PvPers who want open world anything aren't just looking for easy targets. We've got plenty of PvE stuff for that.

I haven't seen anyone arguing for Easy Targets/Prey. Everyone is looking for adhoc, non-instanced PvP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

That said, please stop painting this broad narrative of "everyone just wants to gank you there". If I know you and we're not actively competing, I'd be just as likely to stop and talk as I would defend myself viciously if you attacked. Of course, I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure PvPers who want open world anything aren't just looking for easy targets. We've got plenty of PvE stuff for that.

---

This isn’t a “broad narrative.” I’ve been playing different types of MMOs majority of my life. As early as Runescape, of which I was about 11 at the time, I’ve experienced people going out into PVP areas because they needed something from that area, such as the only F2P farming area for rune and adamant ore was in “the Wilderness.” PVPers would farm those areas for easy prey.

I knew people who bragged, happily, about camping in front of dungeons in Archeage and BDO for the easy kills. People would be standing outside the dungeon looking for a group and would be killed by large guilds of players who weren’t looking for a challenge, it was all gang mentality, “get gud.” You were required to go out as prey to get to your dungeons, your materials for crafting, and even questing.

Don’t discredit my years of experience in MMOs as broad speculation and fear mongering. I experienced it in every game that supports Open World PVP. Hell, even WOW players brag about killing new players “just for fun.”

“We are trolls, online trolls, big black hearts instead of souls. Preying on the weak and dumb, just for fun.” It exists. And I joined this game because it doesn’t have that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisagami

Don’t discredit my years of experience in MMOs as broad speculation and fear mongering. I experienced it in every game that supports Open World PVP. Hell, even WOW players brag about killing new players “just for fun.”

---

If you read all the suggestions in this thread, most (if not all) of the people who want "open world" pvp either want a PVP-specific map, or an opt-in flag for regular maps. Thus no one would be ganked, like in those other MMO's, because by default all new players would have the pvp flag turned off and couldn't be attacked.

There is 0 chance the dev team would ever bring about the gankable version of PVP into this game even if they did Open World, it goes against their very core of what they want FF14 to be, nor do I see many people here asking for such a feature.

I very much hated being ganked in WoW (on a PVE server! Stupid PVE maps that gave quests whose follow ups went into PVP areas) and would never support it either, but I think the compromised suggestions offered by the PVP community have some merit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisagami

This isn’t a “broad narrative.”

---

Actually it is a broad narrative as your concern has been addressed many times and you keep bringing it up when no one is asking for what you are fear mongering about. I grew up on a PvP server in WoW and had all those same things that happened to me. I also grew up in FFXI where there wasn't PvP threats (unless toggled) but open world threats. Goblin trains and Crawler trains were a reality. Honestly the PvE threats in FFXI were more annoying than PvP threats in WoW, as you even had less control and the punishment was even less severe.

You also had a choice in WoW, they had RP and PvE servers. So if you ended up getting ganked in WoW, I feel no sympathy for you as you could go that whole game without a PvP confrontation simply by choosing a server responsibly.

It does seem that what we are asking for isnt that hard to make happen. Some glamour here and there and some mounts maybe for the open world events like Ballista and we have something to enjoy and not effect anyone who isn't into it. Can we not get a response to our collective want? I know this would also bring new subs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

Like Ballista

---

OMG another person who knows what Ballista is. An Optional open world PvP mode that had no impact on PvE players but people fail to even research it who are opposed to Open World PvP because their only taste is free for all and they have closed the doors, barred the hatches, and are hunkered down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisagami

This isn’t a “broad narrative.”.

---

I understand that scepticism, they are bounty/loot hunters. What you have to ask is are those games mindless bounty hunting game or competitive pvp where sportmanship still apply. The PvP i grew up with actually have meaningful relationship with PvE. No bounty/loot from hitting someone but there's 1-2 occasional bully, the pvpers keep them inline and help hunters get their bis in special pvp events. In return the hunters help us on hard world bosses to get our bis. The gear progression sort of drop everywhere. Keeping the peace is just a matter of respect between two sides and I've never had a problem with that. I've been bullied before too and a proper PvPer knows when to stop, when you're dead you're dead, they won't go chasing you around 2nd time for no reason at all.

I'm actually fine without any PvE objectives in a pvp map, I'm not looking for prey. My own experience tells me PvE has more horrible people who won't stop at nothing to get their loot. One of my statics admin was mauled literally in real life for kicking bad seeds out of the group, this is true story. I'm not talking about 8-man statics, it was a 30-man world boss hunting group so there's certain rules for coordinations. That's obviously a law issue but the person quit that game afterwards and I've stopped taking any kind of statics or pve endgame since.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wintersandman

You also had a choice in WoW, they had RP and PvE servers.

---

You could still get flagged PvP by accident if you buffed, healed or resurrected a player that had the tag on (AoE heals included). Then there were also Open World areas that automatically flagged you if you entered them (I think even flying over them by accident counted, but I'm not sure anymore) and then of course you regularly had PvP flagged people running into your mobs, onto your corpses (For those not in the know: You had to click on a corpse to loot it) and around you in order to try and get you PvP flagged via accidental misclick or AoE. Especially high level Tauren with their Kodos loved that strategy, since they had the most coverage.
Once flagged, you had to wait 5 minutes for the flag to vanish, which was the most annoying bit of it all. So even if you killed the dude, sticking around just made you prone to a gank while you're busy with another mob, you had to walk away and wait before continuing your farm.

It was a royal pain to avoid PvP on PvE servers at times. If you had a guild, it was usually easier to just kill the troublemakers and spawncamp them until they got bored and learned their lesson.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

You could still get flagged PvP by accident if you buffed, healed or resurrected a player that had the tag on (AoE heals included). Then there were also Open World areas that automatically flagged you if you entered them (I think even flying over them by accident counted, but I'm not sure anymore) and then of course you regularly had PvP flagged people running into your mobs, onto your corpses (For those not in the know: You had to click on a corpse to loot it) and around you in order to try and get you PvP flagged via accidental misclick or AoE.

---

AoE heals only affected party members. You could see if someone was flagged so it was a choice to buff, heal, or res them. Up through WotLK the only zone with PvP was Wintergrasp which was released during WotLK and you didn't need to go there for any PvE objectives. If you are misclicking I have no sympathy for you as you should know what you are targeting. In regards to looting you could turn on Auto-Loot and the corpse looting would be alleviated. Is it cumbersome yes but there were ways around it if it bugged people that much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Is it cumbersome yes [...]

---

That's the point I was making. As Frost Mage, you had to purposely forego you natural defensive tool, Frost Nova, to not get tagged. Priests similarly had to be careful with Psychic Scream in their daily farm activities. Combat rogues had to make sure not to use Blade Flurry etc etc. Panning your camera to find a good angle the guy wasn't blocking was also a common necessity. AoE farming in a group was cumbersome, as you easily triggered a tagging chain reaction. And if he wanted to, a Rogue could simply jump into the last tick of your ground AoE without you realizing he's even there and get you tagged that way. You had to go out of your way to avoid PvP even on a PvE realm is the point.

Of course that bugged people that much. Not having to go out of your way and doing cumbersome workarounds to avoid it was the reason people picked a PvE realm in the first place after all. That's what PvP realms were for - Those also had cumbersome workarounds to avoid PvP, playing Rogue being one of them.

And that holds a valuable lesson to learn from when making any "optional" PvP zone or tagging system - Don't allow interaction between tagged and non-tagged people. AoEs of non-tagged people should simply ignore tagged people, single target abilities and autoattacks trigger a warning message along the lines of:"You need to turn on the flag to do that".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

And that holds a valuable lesson to learn from when making any "optional" PvP zone or tagging system - Don't allow interaction between tagged and non-tagged people. AoEs of non-tagged people should simply ignore tagged people, single target abilities and autoattacks trigger a warning message along the lines of:"You need to turn on the flag to do that".

---

FFXIV already has this in place. You can't attack Leve Quest targets so they already have the logic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

Panning your camera to find a good angle the guy wasn't blocking was also a common necessity. .

---

Tab targeting... I am sure you have used it before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

As Frost Mage, you had to purposely forego you natural defensive tool, Frost Nova, to not get tagged. Priests similarly had to be careful with Psychic Scream in their daily farm activities. Combat rogues had to make sure not to use Blade Flurry etc etc.

---

I am sorry but having played both classes you didn't *NEED* those tools and wouldn't hinder you much. I played Priest, Mage, and Rogue and I never had an issue with accidentally getting flagged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

AoE farming in a group was cumbersome, as you easily triggered a tagging chain reaction.

---

Hopefully if you were in a group you could take out one straggler jumping in the fray.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wintersandman

FFXIV already has this in place. You can't attack Leve Quest targets so they already have the logic.

---

We have no open world PvP zone yet, so we do not have anything in place regarding open world PvP either. It's obvious that it's mechanically possible, what I was stating was that it's important to actually 'do' it.
More:"Arguing for the sake of arguing" at eleven. But without me - If you feel the need to dissect a post sentence by sentence instead of replying in a coherent post, you quite apparently are just desperate to be right about "something" for a change.

Have it your way, I'll go mine. That's not worth my time, only a rhyme.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fannah

Sounds a bit selfish, imo. "Oh ok, I'm all for it, get this thing as long as it's worthless (100% fun, right? you should be happy, pvp players). Maybe I'll join you casually when I'm bored for fun".

Which means not even glamour that could interest pve players, I guess?..

Thx there are already mounts, the cheerleader pet, some songs, some titles, and even some pve gears (now glamour) to get with the current system.

Or maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "as long as there is nothing else there that makes people who are not interested in pvp go there".

---

PVP only rewards are fine. I mean like don't give anyone who isn't interested in doing pvp, a reason to go into the pvp zone. No monsters or gathering nodes for example. There can be pvp events in the zone that give rewards for kills and such. Rewards you can't get any other way.

The point being, you go there to pvp, and no other reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

But without me - If you feel the need to dissect a post sentence by sentence instead of replying in a coherent post, you quite apparently are just desperate to be right about "something" for a change.

---

Actually it was more to illustrate that you had a choice. You made it sound like this horrible inconvenience and really it was all a choice and in reality every class that you mentioned were the strongest in a PvP setting especially against that sneaky rogue. A frost mage could kite a rogue for days. A priest using Psychic Scream would have seen the rogue and could have mind flayed him before he ever came back. You could have overcome every situation but from your post you made a clear choice to not adapt.

But a node could have only some specific items that could make you craft pure glamour items, it would then be the same than those PvP only rewards giving glamours directly for pvp points as the end of it would be getting a glamour item. I don't see what would be wrong about that.

What's wrong with monsters if they don't give exp, for exemple, but would drop specific items to craft glamour only items? Or killing a monster would make another one pop (as ended fates makes another one pop) and there are low chances one rare fate spawn who would also drop an item for glamour only, or a pet/songs etc. I don't see the difference with giving PvP points directly in exchange for such kind of rewards.

Several people came for pvp to get glamour, you don't have to choose to people the reason why they went in PvP (or maybe you know what was in the mind of some of my guildmates who went in the pvp only for the glamour stuff/titles/achievements and mounts. They still did their best to play well there, just in case).

Knowing PvP never has been a way to get top HL gears, nor anything which matter story wise, I'm wondering what you're actually afraid to see there. I only understand if it's like a node that would provide crafting items for pve matters only.