I am disappointed with Deep Dungeon

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Fun and challenge are widely divergent for me.

Possible solution to people leaving at 49, leaving resets you to floor 1.

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Im sure they will patch something in the future to not allow this. I hope at least, seems pretty cheap to cheat the system like that.

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Originally Posted by Nerisu

Perhaps they can add a guaranteed silver chest after beating the 50th floor boss to avoid this from becoming the norm.

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I'm honestly surprised that wasn't already implemented. It's really the way to go; at least you'll get something guaranteed for a full clear, you know?

Right now I had a complete run without a single point in weapon upgrade. Wiped 3 times from stage 30-40. Start from zero. So one can assume that I've spent alot of time there.
Will not enter again. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Nerisu

Perhaps they can add a guaranteed silver chest after beating the 50th floor boss to avoid this from becoming the norm.

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You should make this a new topic.

hi im from moogle
deep palace has a lott of potential and i hope it will be expanded on
HOWEVER
1 tiny thing they forgot

the gaming comunity on moogle is shit sry for my use of langauge but ive done palace 4 times now and for some readon poeple need to find it within themselfs to leave at floor 49 hapend to me on all 4 times
square for the love of god punish thier asses with a week ban or somthing cause its destroying the game im playing for 2.5 years now and ive only seen the comunity get more poisenious and selfish each ticking time i dont say they are all bad far from it but u guys lack the balls to face the players even if it isnt a violation of terms cause thats the bs u keep telling me theres somthing like common etiquete and leaving dugn halfway wich is a form of harrasment is puniched by 30MIN ban????

when they do that u should start with 1 week dont freaking pamper the players and keep giving them the stuff for free where we had to work so hard for i farmed my relic before nerf so others can catch up if u dont have the time to play thats too bad but then u dont get results relics are stuff of legend like only 10 poeple have in the server cause its so hard to get dont make it a grind fest ok a bit im ok with but this is borderline stupid everyone has one beats the sense of having one does it the raid weapons are what the relics shouldve been locked behind hard stuff and u actually NEED SKILL somthing 70% of the player base doesnt even have

that is all sorry i went a bit off topic there but this is bothering me for a long time now

Yeah caith-sid, no. They don't need to be punished for leaving. The way the POTD is made is encouraging this behavior. They need to improve leveling of weapons and armor for later levels or people will continue to leave.

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

watch if we complain and jinx ourselves they might add like 5 nidEX in one sitting on the last 100th floor and several mini titans to landslide :<

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YESSS pls do

its about time that effort and skill gets rewarded

perhaps but this is only doing the game harm and i love this game to bits but latelly they ar ejust raping it its about time tthat skill and effort get rewarded dont nerfe relics and such anymore and im still waiting on relic armor

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

You should make this a new topic.

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a guaranteed silver chest that is guaranteed to upgrade the items then yes... but not if it just blows up or has no effect, remove the rng from the boss chests (if they add any) and that would be great.

casual content being to easy.... typical forum complaints.

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Originally Posted by MistyMew

a guaranteed silver chest that is guaranteed to upgrade the items then yes... but not if it just blows up or has no effect, remove the rng from the boss chests (if they add any) and that would be great.

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I'd like this very much, this would at least encourage people to not leave the dungeon prior to the final boss. Other than the sherds, there's not too much incentive to complete it if you had bad luck with silver chests .... especially getting silver chests only for them to fail at upgrading your aetherpool gear at floors 41-49.

This happened to me in my last run where my gear never got upgraded. I was 30/26 at the start and still was by the end of it. While I wasn't expecting to be a full 30/30, I was at least expecting to go up a few points. Very frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

casual content being to easy.... typical forum complaints.

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I don't care that it's too easy. I just care about how mind numbing it is to just kill mobs and progress to the next floor.

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Originally Posted by Remus

I don't care that it's too easy. I just care about how mind numbing it is to just kill mobs and progress to the next floor.

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Yeah, casual players don't mean they are dumb and just want to do repetitive tasks. I play casually but I really enjoy a challenge, puzzles, having to work together, etc. So much more could have been....again, this is why a test server would be useful, so they can get feed back on how to improve things before releasing it then saying oh sorry, we can't change it..development,e tc, w.e

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Originally Posted by Alberel

PotD was inspired mostly by Nyzul Isle from FFXI.

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Is there a source? Because I think this is false. Deep Dungeon is based off some game called Chocobo Mysterious Dungeon or something. I think it was.. Snugglebutt(?) who stated this.

A mystery dungeon game(dungeon crawler) is what DD is. Not Nyzul. Have you played a Pokémon Mystery Dungeon game? I played one when I was like.. 12 but I really loved it and DD is exactly like THAT. Not this Nyzul you speak of. I don't think this was meant to be Nyzul..

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

casual content being to easy.... typical forum complaints.

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Easy doesn't have to equal boring.

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Originally Posted by Rynia

Killing the same mobs over and over again in boring, samey environments just doesn't appeal to me. Particularly when the dev's patented quadruple-lock rng system prevents you from getting anything worthwhile for up to 3 hours of playtime! =D

Seriously. Layer 1 of rng - will a chest spawn?
Layer 2 - Will it explode?
Layer 3 - Will it be weapon or armour?
Layer 4 - Will it work or just flat-out say "nope, no upgrade for you"?

That last layer is just cruelty tbh. If your item is below the floor you are on, it should upgrade 100%. Full stop. Grinding for hours and getting nothing back is not fun when the content itself is lifeless.

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Layer 4 have nothing to do with RNG.
It depend of how many upgrades your weapon/gear already have and in which floor you are. Each floor have an upgrade cap. No upgrade if your weapon or gear is already over the cap of the current floor.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Layer 4 have nothing to do with RNG.

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Yes it has. Just last run I had someone complain that his arm was unaffected by the silver chest we got on floor 49.

Not sure if there is a true upgrade cap either. My armor got upgraded from 19 to 20 on floor 23, when it was actually synced. Level and floor definitely play a large role, but in the end, it's still RNG.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Easy doesn't have to equal boring.

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I agree. Unfortunately, in this game, it always seems to. Probably because the goal is always just "kill X" but most of the time X doesn't really fight back. Curbstomping something can be fun when it's out of the ordinary, but it's the norm for this game.

Deep dungeon is just the same monsters that throw the fight, but with an added element of "don't move around too much during combat because you might trigger a trap." It's kind of fun when you have a terrible group composition and SHTF, but most of the time I get the same sleepy feeling in my brain that I got in Diadem.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Layer 4 have nothing to do with RNG.
It depend of how many upgrades your weapon/gear already have and in which floor you are. Each floor have an upgrade cap. No upgrade if your weapon or gear is already over the cap of the current floor.

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Actually that's wrong.

The upgrade cap is the players level, the floor only determines the sync cap. You need to be 2x or higher then the level of your respective piece of gear for it to roll an upgrade at all.

Its in the player's best interest to level as much as possible as fast as possible to have the maximum amount of chances for silver chests. If you are not level 60 by floor 41 or 42 you are doing it wrong and actually reducing the likelihood of getting an upgrade at all.

Okay, that makes sense. Sort of discourages speed runs.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

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The current implementation leaves much to be desired but has its justification you want or is not entirely valid. Another thing is funny as Nyzul mentioned when people at the time complained about the lack of variety of events from a Dungeon Crawler (focused most on killing) that months later managed to solve.

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Originally Posted by Destous

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Whoever forces you to be 3 hours inside the Palace?
The main problem and this is something that happens in most of the MMO is the craving to devour the contents as quickly as possible rather than making it last. The content is not going away, so you want the weapon the first week?.

You know what many? We took it easy so that the contents do not get bored, I go down 10 floors every day to avoid getting bored doing the same activity for 3 hours(any activity you do for 3 hours bored)

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

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Starting this is not a Dungeon Crawler ...

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Actually that's wrong.

The upgrade cap is the players level, the floor only determines the sync cap. You need to be 2x or higher then the level of your respective piece of gear for it to roll an upgrade at all.

Its in the player's best interest to level as much as possible as fast as possible to have the maximum amount of chances for silver chests. If you are not level 60 by floor 41 or 42 you are doing it wrong and actually reducing the likelihood of getting an upgrade at all.

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Can you confirm on this? I´ve been on some speed runs(matched) that skips all possible mobs so naturally we got under 60 for 41-50 floors

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Possible solution to people leaving at 49, leaving resets you to floor 1.

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Oh, good, so people will have even more reason to try to wipe the group instead, since they can't leave.

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Originally Posted by ardrej

Can you confirm on this? I´ve been on some speed runs(matched) that skips all possible mobs so naturally we got under 60 for 41-50 floors

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Yeah, me and my FC went and tested this out.

It was not until we were 2x the upgrade level in character level before any chest would give us an upgrade. We were getting upgrades for gear that was sync'd. In fact, we were almost rolling in upgrades throughout the 41-50 block. While the speed run groups I wound up in almost never got upgrades. Being level 56/57 by floor 47 means only 2 floors for chances at upgrades.

The higher the enhance level, the more speed running hurts you. Floor depth only affects the sync level.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Fun and challenge are widely divergent for me...

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That's the balance though, you can do challenging but it starts to tip the scales with the easy side...then we have how long things can play out. Not even a week and people have rushed to it, finding ways around or mass spamming it to complete it as soon as they can for the glow. If you look at all the things that come into play you have so many factors that if you adjust one, it heightens or lowers the other(s). It's a balancing act, I can't say any of our ideas would be that much better..some might some might not.

Someone made a suggestion for a test server, i'm sure there's some things that get tested and some that go right into production. They could have one..but expanding on the idea..the resources..

Here's my feedback.

Preface: I really wasn't hyped about this content. Everything I read about it looked frustrating or bad.


Overall Opinion: I really like it. This is the most fun I've had in game outside of raiding since doing the 3.0 story.

Issues or things that can be improved:

• Recycled music from old content often doesn't fit the atmosphere and feels very out of place. Would have preferred new tracks.
• The environments themselves are very very dull. I know that the dev team can design cool looking areas, and I'm not sure why they decided to make dull caves for this content.
• Once finishing level 50, you need to go all the way back to level 1. I'd prefer if we could just keep farming 41-50 (even if that meant that silver coffers would be even more rare to balance)
• The current design promotes people wiping parties, because they haven't got their last +arm/armor by floor 50. There needs to be a better way design the content to address this.
• There should be puzzles of some sort. This has a major Zelda series vibe to me, but is missing this component of what makes Zelda dungeons so engaging.

Score: I like numbers, so giving it a numerical score on quality ;) 7/10

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Originally Posted by Vantol

At least in Diadem you could be watching TV during that (or mind your own business).

For me it was "make or break". So I wish best luck to all who is staying.

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I had no trouble speed-running (by which I just mean killing and exploring as quickly as possible, not necessarily chest- or mob-skipping) even with a 'stay on top' player streaming videos over the whole bottom-left corner of my screen the whole time. Audiobooks, emails, studying off textbooks in my lap... Amazing what a MMO mouse and mind-numbing simplicity can do in that regard.

That said, I'll probably be staying, at least on and off as before, if only because I feel the medium, much like the dropped-like-a-flaming-turd Diadem base concept, has a lot of potential. It just hasn't been tapped yet. We have literally auto-generated rehashed rooms and a selection of the same dull mobs people complain about in dungeons and the open world. And an upgrade system that leads to later party conflicts. That's it. What it could have... that's a massive list.

Afterthought: For those stating that this is merely an issue in the current floor count, and that we'll see enjoyable difficulty and complexity by the time, say, floor 110 comes out... Do you really want to be slogging through 50+ floors of barebone content just to get to something enjoyable? Why not focus on the underlying concepts and generators such that future improvements can affect all the floors?

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Originally Posted by Vantol

At least in Diadem you could be watching TV during that (or mind your own business).

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..at... least??

So, your preference is to have content that doesn't require your attention?

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Yeah, me and my FC went and tested this out.

It was not until we were 2x the upgrade level in character level before any chest would give us an upgrade. We were getting upgrades for gear that was sync'd. In fact, we were almost rolling in upgrades throughout the 41-50 block. While the speed run groups I wound up in almost never got upgrades. Being level 56/57 by floor 47 means only 2 floors for chances at upgrades.

The higher the enhance level, the more speed running hurts you. Floor depth only affects the sync level.

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how much data do you have for this? sounds like confirmation bias.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

how much data do you have for this? sounds like confirmation bias.

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It is true. You can tell by watching the yellow/white text next to your weapon as you level.

i.e. if your weapon is say level 21 and you are 43, it will be yellow. You gain a level and are 44, then now it's white - on the same floor. This DOESN'T mean you can level it at the floor though, it just means you can level the weapon on the appropriate floor.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

..at... least??

So, your preference is to have content that doesn't require your attention?

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In Diadem on a ranged character you could rotate by muscle memory, tab to the next engaged enemy when you hear the error sound from your enemy being dead, etc, F2/F3, face/lock-on walk to the tank or healer to keep in range, and function capably without anyone being the wiser that you haven't actually been looked at your screen even once for the last five minutes. In PotD you at least need to look up frequently for your movement needs, but it doesn't necessarily feel more engaging as a result.

I think the complaint is more that, if its dull enough that one wants to zone out, it'd be more stomach-able if one actually could zone out completely? I'm fairly sure that if it required his full attention, rather than just frequent visual checks, you wouldn't see that complaint.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

In Diadem on a ranged character you could rotate by muscle memory, tab to the next engaged enemy when you hear the error sound from your enemy being dead, etc, F2/F3, face/lock-on walk to the tank or healer to keep in range, and function capably without anyone being the wiser that you haven't actually been looked at your screen even once for the last five minutes. In PotD you at least need to look up frequently for your movement needs, but it doesn't necessarily feel more engaging as a result.

I think the complaint is more that, if its dull enough that one wants to zone out, it'd be more stomach-able if one actually could zone out completely? I'm fairly sure that if it required his full attention, rather than just frequent visual checks, you wouldn't see that complaint.

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Hmm, I guess I just find the content more interesting and engaging. I hated Diadem, but like PoD. I think the issue with Diadem mostly relates to the way it practically forces you to zone out - where PoD forces you to be attentive.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

It is true. You can tell by watching the yellow/white text next to your weapon as you level.

i.e. if your weapon is say level 21 and you are 43, it will be yellow. You gain a level and are 44, then now it's white - on the same floor. This DOESN'T mean you can level it at the floor though, it just means you can level the weapon on the appropriate floor.

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that's just item level sync. you can still get rank ups when the stat is yellow, i was surprised but it happened to me.

my weapon level was 19, i was helping a friend run through it from the beginning, it was sync'd down to 17 cause my character level was only 34 or 35. opened up a silver chest and it went up to 20, even though it was still yellow and still sync'd down to 17.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

that's just item level sync. you can still get rank ups when the stat is yellow, i was surprised but it happened to me.

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Hmmm, OK, whenever it was Yellow for me it said no changes. I guess I just wasn't on the appropriate floor yet. Thanks for the extra info

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

In Diadem on a ranged character you could rotate by muscle memory, tab to the next engaged enemy when you hear the error sound from your enemy being dead, etc, F2/F3, face/lock-on walk to the tank or healer to keep in range, and function capably without anyone being the wiser that you haven't actually been looked at your screen even once for the last five minutes. In PotD you at least need to look up frequently for your movement needs, but it doesn't necessarily feel more engaging as a result.

I think the complaint is more that, if its dull enough that one wants to zone out, it'd be more stomach-able if one actually could zone out completely? I'm fairly sure that if it required his full attention, rather than just frequent visual checks, you wouldn't see that complaint.

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That's exactly what I meant. Thank you.

For me, Deep Dungeon was a disappointment. I like the randomly generated concept but everything else sucks. There's a huge of BS and frustration required to undertake this dungeon. It's the high amounts of fake silver chests that are mimics or explosions which start to become aggravating when your gear is over 25 and can only get upgrades from floors that doesn't sync your gear. Not once have I seen my gear go up while it was synced. My second issue is that there's no way to select completed floor sets which is just plain stupid and makes leveling your gear that much more tedious. I get that SE wanted to make things hard to upgrade but they could of at least made it so we could of selected a completed floor set. Instead, you're forced to reset and repeat the same shit on the same floors getting the same silver chests that won't upgrade your gear until you reach a floor that matches your gear. I was excited for this dungeon when it was announced but now, not anymore. I'm over it.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Hmm, I guess I just find the content more interesting and engaging. I hated Diadem, but like PoD. I think the issue with Diadem mostly relates to the way it practically forces you to zone out - where PoD forces you to be attentive.

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It's a bit of a tricky line to design. Something can require your attention but at the same time be so incredibly dull that you just don't want to do it and have trouble staying awake (in other words, its not fun). if you need a good example, look up the tank bosses in Megaman and Bass, and Mighty No.9's final boss.

For me in PotD, it's not any different than fighting mobs in diadem or aquapolis, but I have to pay enough attention to navigate around random hallways (which all look the same mind you, so it doesn't even feel different) and dodge the occasional telegraph from a mob (assuming it even has one). The traps and room buffs just feel slapped on; it really doesn't add ot the fun or depth of the floors, and it feels really arbitiary for the sake of slowing you down when you don't have the item to remove it (specifically the blind, sprint, and damage down ones). Then again I didn't have much expectations of it in the first place and they pretty much hit the nail in the head when I'd say we'd be fighting mobs that have the same, generic abilities as they would outside of the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

The current design promotes people wiping parties, because they haven't got their last +arm/armor by floor 50. There needs to be a better way design the content to address this.

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Don't use the portal after the boss fight