So, pretty dead lately....

Another part of the problem of starting a static is at this point, if the leader has no experience, who the hell is going to follow you in?

This game, everyone says feels like single player, sure, because it makes finding people in game a bitch. Still trying to think of who could have come up with the moronic idea of no chat channels...

And I shouldn't have to level up two other jobs I don't really like just to do stuff. A tank should be that. A tank. Shouldn't matter what class they are, but there's a sheep mentality and thus it does matter.

Wearing the same gear for years is boring. What motivation is there to keep trying to kill that 2 year old boss your group hasn't killed yet, when you can go kill that new one without having anything to work towards?

You basically take *all* reward out of it. Folks typically don't kill something just to say they did it; that segment is incredibly small. Where's this magic content life expectancy from it?

And to bring back the idea of FFXI being "good", hate to break it to you. It wasn't very popular in the west. Most western gamers were still playing EverQuest, which came out first and still had vertical progression. Only reason content stayed relevant was lack of quick patch cycles and content gating via keying for access.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

FFXIV is widely considered a top 3 MMORPG, often 2nd only to WoW. All of its other "competition" failed miserably. Yoshi isnt perfect, but he clearly knows what hes doing. What you are seeing is not a XIV problem, but a genre problem. MMORPGs are dying. Thats just the way it is.

Once the action MMO gets perfected theyll make a comeback. Perhaps not until VR becomes a household thing. Who knows.

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Action MMOs kinda suck. Just throwing that out there. They cater to the shooter crowd.

You won't catch a lot of people dead that would subject themselves to day long immersion in a hellhole like that. CoD kiddies... Ugh.

Even vanilla wow, where I never got much into raiding and ran the same dungeons all day, every day, was *fun*. Games these days can't make dungeons interesting or gun enough for folks to not mind running them for 8 hours a day, every day.

Never mind that was the average BRD run....

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

And to bring back the idea of FFXI being "good", hate to break it to you. It wasn't very popular in the west. Most western gamers were still playing EverQuest,

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To be fair, most of the reason for that, is that SE did really poor advertising outside Japan. Inside Japan they had promo events, tv ads and the like. Outside? We got like 1 commercial in 2002 that came on maybe once or twice and never really showed back up again. There were also very few ads for it online, unlike a certain mmo (WoW), that force fed you ads daily on practically every page you went to.
You can release anything and say it's not popular if you don't advertise for it.

Well what do you expect, everyone blasted through content and beat expansion with in a week or two and well only thing they have left is tomes, while those get maxed out nothing to do on game nothing fun at all.

So best thing to do is log out wait till next week and do same thing, which people tend to do in 1 day of running.

I mean I don't even do pvp reason behind that too many people judge over losses I don't do extremes and nothing else to do but mine or craft and make money and well I rather log off.

Well, with an expansion people usually expect new types of content..lol.

This expansion had no variety of content :o

some people here already hit the nail with thier posts : heavensward was basicly just a leveling PATCH. it cannot be really called expansion outside of that it costed money. endgame wise we actually have LESS content than before at 50. which wouldnt be an issue if they left lvl cap at 50 and focused purely on endgame content and adding stuff to it.


take a look at daoc expansion trials of atlantis or age of conans expansion : they added like FOUR super huge zones with ALOT of world encounters and stuff you could do. and they were are MAX LEVEL ONLY content aka endgame content because they both didnt touch thier level caps once instead they added horizontal progression things. daoc added new skills via master level "raids" aoc added "altanate advancement" systems aswell. thats what i would call expansion. not that wow copy bullshit cap raise crap most mmos released the past years again and again. raising max level is NOT CONTENT AND NEVER WILL BE. its just beeing extremly uncreative and lazy by the devteams. it creates more harm than good by making all content before it completly obsolete and removing all challenge and use in it. and all a max level reset is doing is : reset endgame to ZERO.

you may aswell not play till 4.0 max level raises to 70 and then youll be right there were everyone else will be without any effort put in. your old gear wont help you nor will you need it at all since even quests hand out better stuff. unlike a non cap raise expansion were your old gear may not be the best anymore aswell but itll HELP you by making the new endgame content a bit easier to handle for example.

When I'm not raiding or decorating my house, I'm bored. Been replaying Dragon Age: Inquisition to romance Cullen. Waiting for 3.1 to drop to buy a mansion for my FC. One more thing to do while I'm in game.

It isn't that they didn't introduce a new mechanic, since flying mounts fit that role, but the flying mounts do not actually effect any gameplay in the long term. The flying mounts are just a way to restrict access to sections of the world map, but do not contribute to combat in any fashion. Mounted combat would have been interesting, as it lets players approach encounters in new ways. I'm also not a fan of the continued use of linear dungeon corridors, since they encourage racing to the finish instead of focusing on making choices as a group.

If anything, rushing to the finish without saying a word should by all rights result in a party wipe, as some party members mistakenly go down other corridors they are more use to, triggering traps, monsters, and other undesirable events. Group coordination requires communication and awareness of details. It isn't their fault when almost all the content leading up to end game can be played with chat turned off.

I went off in a tangent for a bit there, but I agree that the expansion didn't really change up the underlying meta-game.

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Originally Posted by Windklinge

you may aswell not play till 4.0 max level raises to 70 and then youll be right there were everyone else will be without any effort put in. your old gear wont help you nor will you need it at all since even quests hand out better stuff. unlike a non cap raise expansion were your old gear may not be the best anymore aswell but itll HELP you by making the new endgame content a bit easier to handle for example.

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With the exception of XI, which released expansions for 7 years without raising the level cap, that describes every MMO expansion.

Anyway, they know the lack of new systems in HW is an issue, they said as much during the anniversary stream. It's why they're diverting resources from patch dungeons to developing them. Should they have been in at launch? Absolutely, but I have no idea how much that would've delayed release.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Games these days can't make dungeons interesting or gun enough for folks to not mind running them for 8 hours a day, every day.

Never mind that was the average BRD run....

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I played through much of vanilla and nobody ran all of BRD. People did Emperor speed runs because melee DPS wanted his trinket, or attunement runs for MC. I cannot recall a single time aside from VERY early on when people actually did full runs of BRD. That place is second only to Gnomeregan for terrible design. And I'm assuming those "8 hours of dungeons" factors in the hours you spend yelling in city chat for party members...

WoW had a lot of fun dungeon ideas early on, and I always felt like they should have kept stuff like 10-man Scholo/Strat and 15-man UBRS in the game instead of homogenizing EVERY dungeon into a 5-man. It's better for accessibility but it chipped away at some of the flavor the dungeons had. (Sacrificing flavor for accessibility has been overarching theme in WoW's history)

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

To be fair, most of the reason for that, is that SE did really poor advertising outside Japan. Inside Japan they had promo events, tv ads and the like. Outside? We got like 1 commercial in 2002 that came on maybe once or twice and never really showed back up again. There were also very few ads for it online, unlike a certain mmo (WoW), that force fed you ads daily on practically every page you went to.
You can release anything and say it's not popular if you don't advertise for it.

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FFXI predates WoW, but does *not* predate EverQuest, which got even less advertising.

I didn't know about it(and I was a pretty big pc gamer) until 2001 and in college, and it'd been out 2 years.

@adn, were you Horde by chance?

Alliance Onyxia attunement required an escort quest(Jailbreak!) That was a guaranteed 3 hour wipefest because that NPC was an idiot with an aggro rafius the size of Texas.

And I quite often did full runs, my fastest were closer to 6 hours.

I was 5 Manning scholo before hard player cap and stratholme when it was wall to wall, five pack pulls was great. 45 minute, 5 man Baron runs were hard in blues... ><

And 8 hours includes yelling? Nah. I was a healer. Lol

The reason why players get bored is because people have short attentioin spans and there are other games to play. Also Final Fantasy XIV got caught in the always online era so every game has a massively online component re branding MMO's. Look at Grand Theft Auto Online which is essentialy in MMO it has sinlge player elements with multiple players sharing the same game world. This game is going to have to embrace single player gameplay and mechanics from the Final Fantasy to make it unique.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The reason why players get bored is because people have short attentioin spans and there are other games to play. Also Final Fantasy XIV got caught in the always online era so every game has a massively online component re branding MMO's. Look at Grand Theft Auto Online which is essentialy in MMO it has sinlge player elements with multiple players sharing the same game world. This game is going to have to embrace single player gameplay and mechanics from the Final Fantasy to make it unique.

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If I didn't have RL friends playing here, I probably wouldn't have stayed long enough to find a fc.

No chat channels, the world feels dead. Players might as well be NPCs. At least in other games, general and level chats kep it feeling multiplayer.

If servers sometimes feel dead, doesnt mean it is dead.
Humans are packanimals, they do not want to stray from the pack, AKA they dont want to do the first move or do something "out of the ordinary"

I saw a program where they tested this out where they had 1 person come into a room which was full of other actors that was told to not move/exit building when the Fire Alarm went off, and shockingly, most test persons did not move until another person did. Even when they poured in smoke into the room. This has actually ended up killing people many times.

So my tip is, if want to get in touch with people, make the first move ;)
I have done this very often to random players I have met and usually ended up in 1-2 hour chats even and added to friendslists :)
Dont be shy, stick yourself out there ^^

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

@adn, were you Horde by chance?

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Yep, I've always been Horde. The Horde Ony quest line was nowhere near as cool as the Alliance one because it was missing all of the stuff about Onyxia infiltrating Stormwind. With Horde you didn't have an escort quest, but you did have to find Rexxar in Desolace which was always fun because he had a huge patrol range that went all the way across the zone.

I do sorta miss those days but I also don't miss grinding all the time just to cover repair costs and oh god the PVP grind.

Bored right now because all there really is left to do for me is grind. Either I grind the two Expert dungeons for Tomes or I grind my gathering classes. It's why I've been playing Disblo 3 again. It's the same grind, but without the downtime and I can stop whenever I feel like it. At this point, I'm basically killing time until Fallout 4 comes out.

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Originally Posted by adn

Yep, I've always been Horde. The Horde Ony quest line was nowhere near as cool as the Alliance one because it was missing all of the stuff about Onyxia infiltrating Stormwind. With Horde you didn't have an escort quest, but you did have to find Rexxar in Desolace which was always fun because he had a huge patrol range that went all the way across the zone.

I do sorta miss those days but I also don't miss grinding all the time just to cover repair costs and oh god the PVP grind.

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You had to kill elites and all sorts of other random crap for it. I know, I did that one too, but started as Alliance.

We spent a LOT more time than should have ever possibly be spent in BRD as a result. :/

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Originally Posted by adn

Yep, I've always been Horde. The Horde Ony quest line was nowhere near as cool as the Alliance one because it was missing all of the stuff about Onyxia infiltrating Stormwind. With Horde you didn't have an escort quest, but you did have to find Rexxar in Desolace which was always fun because he had a huge patrol range that went all the way across the zone.

I do sorta miss those days but I also don't miss grinding all the time just to cover repair costs and oh god the PVP grind.

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I remember tanking Upper Blackrock Spire with my Orc Shaman. Ah, the days of Shaman tanking... how brief you were.

I only play to cap ESO tokens and Red scrips currently since my static fell apart. Alex savage with pug is not too fun so far.

My FC is pretty much dead atm, there's nothing to do other than our own savage statics and capping eso. And there are a good number of long time players quitting entirely.

I'm pretty convinced the reason we have this problem is that there's no real endgame.

Lots of people play MMOs for endgame, level cap content. We don't have it.

Hell, EQ2 I could go get a group and xp grind for AA... More fun than leveling yet another job anyway.

Seal Rock is the only thing that's really keeping me playing, there's not much else I currently enjoy right now. But i'm really looking forward to the Vanu Vanu beast tribe quests!

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Originally Posted by Syhrwyb

Seal Rock is the only thing that's really keeping me playing, there's not much else I currently enjoy right now. But i'm really looking forward to the Vanu Vanu beast tribe quests!

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Yeah, not a pvp person. Was actually ecstatic to see such little focus on it when I started here.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Yeah, not a pvp person. Was actually ecstatic to see such little focus on it when I started here.

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I'm not really a PvP person either but after a friend of mine got me into it i'm having a lot of fun. :(

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Yeah, not a pvp person. Was actually ecstatic to see such little focus on it when I started here.

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I'm not much of a PvP person either, but Seal Rock is actually very enjoyable.

I've always said the reason is that the game's systems fracture the player base into small cliques and kills the idea of a larger community. When a lot of content is solo (gathering, crafting, MSQ, questing, a lot of the DF experience), 4 person (dungeons), or 8 person (raid content) and the most common group size is an 8 person static, what is the point of having a server of thousands? Why are there limits on LS sizes?

Back when I played WoW, the hardest level of content was 40 man and later 25 man. As a result, you had to know people and partake in the social aspect of the community. There was no DF, RF, PF, or anything. You had to actually talk to people. You actually needed to have a larger circle of friends. Back then, I actually played with, knew, and interacted with 50-60 people on a regular basis. It was a social game. FFXIV isn't. I log on to FFXIV and interact with a handful of people. It's not an MMORPG.

TBH, I think they should provide a 24 man raid that is on par with the difficulty and rewards of the hardest 8 man content. It would go a long way in broadening the scope of the game. Add in real server events like requiring the server to do something to unlock the second wing of Alexander -- something like farming / crafting enough turn-ins, killing enough mobs, or clearing enough content as a server. Force statics, FCs, and LSes to actually interact with the community on a larger scale.

There is not much to do right now. It's pretty sad when the only day you look forward to is tuesday since it means having an excuse to actually do something.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

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As somebody who played from Vanilla to WoD, and quit for XIV, I would prefer if the game NEVER followed WoW's raid formula, ever. The community was the most vile and toxic I have ever encountered in all my years of gaming. Raiding in BC was nearly impossible outside of Kara, unless you knew the right people or were actually good enough at your class, and guilds made room for you on off nights when the main raiders got their loot. Most people never saw true endgame content until after WoTLK hit and the game was dumbed down. Don't even get me started on EPGP based guilds. Say goodbye to any and all chances at gearing when you have a small fraction of special snowflakes with enough saved up to always, and I mean always, get gear before you did.

My entire reason for quitting and coming here was for the small community and less elitist attitude the players had. Up until recently, it wasn't even toxic here, like WoW is/was, and sure enough, all the WoW players coming here(those that I personally know) have started to make the community toxic. Being forced to interact with these people for any reason is a huge turn off. I like DF, I like PF, I like that the game isn't WoW.

WoW was okay 6-7 years ago. I reiterate, I prefer the game as is, and if I wanted to play WoW, or Raid like I did in WoW, or do AQ events like WoW, I would just go back.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

My entire reason for quitting and coming here was for the small community and less elitist attitude the players had. Up until recently, it wasn't even toxic here, like WoW is/was, and sure enough, all the WoW players coming here(those that I personally know) have started to make the community toxic. Being forced to interact with these people for any reason is a huge turn off. I like DF, I like PF, I like that the game isn't WoW.

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It's more because of SE's approach to make the game hardcore rather than players from other games swarming in. I've been in the "hardcore" scene of this game for quite some time now and the people making it a cesspool have been around for a looong time already. When you make content so hard that only a couple hundred people in the world can realistically clear it without being carried by their group to some degree obviously people start to behave like savages.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

With the exception of XI, which released expansions for 7 years without raising the level cap, that describes every MMO expansion.

Anyway, they know the lack of new systems in HW is an issue, they said as much during the anniversary stream. It's why they're diverting resources from patch dungeons to developing them. Should they have been in at launch? Absolutely, but I have no idea how much that would've delayed release.

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He just named two MMO's that did what XI did... focus on new content that people will mostly do, not lazily raising the level as an easy way to create "something to do".

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

There is not much to do right now. It's pretty sad when the only day you look forward to is tuesday since it means having an excuse to actually do something.

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I'm having dejavu here...i swear people said this before...oh yeah, throughout all of 2.0! :p they really need to change up this formula...

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Originally Posted by Iromi

I'm having dejavu here...i swear people said this before...oh yeah, throughout all of 2.0! :p they really need to change up this formula...

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Not just that, but we also had everyone complaining how every patch cycle was the same thing. With 3.1 trying something a little different by gutting one dungeon in exchange for adding some different content, now we have people crying over how expert dungeons are going to get boring again (because THREE new expert dungeons surely won't be boring to grind, am I right guys?)

Ultros still seems pretty lively. Cities are usually always packed. A noticeable number of people in lower level areas. Sadly, a lot of the HW zones seem virtually dead a lot of the time. I mean, you can still find people in those areas doing whatever from time to time, but other times you'll sit in let's say Churning Mists during prime time hours doing fates by yourself (or with very few people) until you die of boredom.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

There is not much to do right now. It's pretty sad when the only day you look forward to is tuesday since it means having an excuse to actually do something.

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What kills me is SE also made FFXI and that game has 1000x more things to do then FFXIV. Its like they took a step backwards with FFXIV.

I think my only issue with hw right now is crafting. Because I could start lvling the rest of all classes and I will have lots to do but I'm mainly focus in Crafting right now and I have reach the dead end which is the ilvl170 gear. I can only do some of them per week under the red scrip lookout.I could buy the rest of the mats and carry on crafting but I AM NOT prepared to pay astronomical prices for something I can get for free.

My suggestion is to make the mats obtained from red scrips to blue scrips. So at least I can carry on farming everyday non-stop .

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Originally Posted by Blissa

What kills me is SE also made FFXI and that game has 1000x more things to do then FFXIV. Its like they took a step backwards with FFXIV.

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It's also a very different game, where instead of weekly lockouts, you have 1% drop rates or need 20000 tokens. I'm sure SE could do that with XIV, but then everyone would quit because of the grind.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It's also a very different game, where instead of weekly lockouts, you have 1% drop rates or need 20000 tokens. I'm sure SE could do that with XIV, but then everyone would quit because of the grind.

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While the grind itself could be scaled back (or not), at least in the XI case, you are doing something. You are grinding to beat the lockout. In FFXIV 2.0's case, once you hit lockout you can't continue. The game literally goes "welp, there is now nothing to do, wait till Tuesday". I'm sure SE's event planners could figure out something with the XI model that is less... tedius, but can be scaled to the timelines SE wants.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It's also a very different game, where instead of weekly lockouts, you have 1% drop rates or need 20000 tokens. I'm sure SE could do that with XIV, but then everyone would quit because of the grind.

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Yea cause most players now days want everything right away. XI max level took 6 months to a year to get in XIV takes maybe a week.