Colored gear with specific classes.

Why are the Red Halfgloves with Int +3 Disciple of Hand only!?

Devs don't post on the weekend, no surprise one hasn't been in to say anything.

If the JP guys are just as infuriated as you lot maybe Yoshi-p will have something to say on Monday or in the next live letter.

I sure plenty of people will be asking "what the hell did you do tp my dye"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Nope, somebody read the Japanese forums and from what I've heard, they are confused too.


Betel, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing now. Just accept the fact this this is a pretty dumb way to handle the dying system and how "unique" it is...

---

Hopefully we'll get some translated links to what the other forums are saying. I'd be interested in hearing what everyone else has suggested so far too.

I really hope we hear something on Monday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

If the JP guys are just as infuriated as you lot maybe Yoshi-p will have something to say on Monday or in the next live letter.

---

There is now a thread on the Japanese crafting forum about this.
Hopefully it will get some attention from SE on Tuesday (Monday is a national holiday here).

It was only started 3 hours ago, but it already has a bunch of Likes and support going for it:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...82%B9%E3%83%AC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lavani

I wouldn't be opposed to enchants or runes being introduced sometime in the future though :D.:(

---

That's called Materia...

dye should be used like a potion >.> its just color, they did over do it on how to dye stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Why are the Red Halfgloves with Int +3 Disciple of Hand only!?

---

You should invest in the elemental armbands, they're much better than measly INT+3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Why are the Red Halfgloves with Int +3 Disciple of Hand only!?

---

Probably the same reasoning behind making Red Velveteen an item for DoW only. I don't get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

That's called Materia...

---

What is the problem with having two forms of customization? some games even have three, it's not a new concept. To say "this is ff14, you want that option go play those games" would be a pretty weak argument against adding those because ff4 already has so many elements from so many different types of games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lavani

What is the problem with having two forms of customization? some games even have three, it's not a new concept. To say "this is ff14, you want that option go play those games" would be a pretty weak argument against adding those because ff4 already has so many elements from so many different types of games.

---

Well I can give you one reason: every new form of customisation is one more layer of balancing with which the development team have to deal. Ours have already proven themselves unable to deal with the five we had before: class(skills/combat style), weapon sub-type, stat assignment, element points, and optimal-based gear bonuses; instead bringing it to what they apparently feel comfortable with: class and restricted gear usage (with the promise of giving back a partial form of stat assignment in the future) plus materia.

So our developers throw their hands in the air and cut our numerical customisation options for balancing difficulty's sake .. do you really think it likely they'll add yet another?

Well, aside from this whole 'paint it red cuz red makes it hit harda' thing of course..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fensfield

Well I can give you one reason: every new form of customisation is one more layer of balancing with which the development team have to deal. Ours have already proven themselves unable to deal with the five we had before: class(skills/combat style), weapon sub-type, stat assignment, element points, and optimal-based gear bonuses; instead bringing it to what they apparently feel comfortable with: class and restricted gear usage (with the promise of giving back a partial form of stat assignment in the future) plus materia.

So our developers throw their hands in the air cut our numerical customisation options for balancing difficulty's sake .. do you really think it likely they'll add yet another?

Well, aside from this whole 'paint it red cuz makes it hit harda' thing of course..

---

Lol, than this is proof that the game was doomed to fail. Rather than trying to make the game work and adding more things to do, they simply simplify everything.

:Edit: in before go play some other game type of responses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laike

so 20 pages and not a single dev hit now? but we are worried about moving our character to be able to stand up...

---

It's possible that that's the only piece of information they've been able to get. Or something that has been in the JP forums for a while and was available to translate because the question had been asked. It's still the weekend so we have this up coming week to look forward to and hopefully gain some insight into the dye system. :/

Red Wizard can't be red :c with some gear.

Like felt Kecks.

The whole Dye thing really confuses me to be honest. Prior to the patch when they said they were gonna add all purpose dyes I was under the impression that one dye could be used to change any item to any color. But that is not how they work. Not only do you NOT have the option of using every color on every item but you also have to take into account that the dyes add stats and can change the class of the item completely(both of which don't make sense and I don't like)

The whole idea of adding materia was to add stats to your gear which they do very well. However the idea of having dye is to allow people to personalize the gear they use to suit their taste and when the gear adds stats it completely voids this mentality. Why would anyone dye something the color they like when a certain color adds a much needed stat? More so then that it basically forces everyone to have gear that looks the same as everyone will use the dye that adds STR or Atk over anything if they are a combat job and the issue is the same on mage, and crafter armor.

At the end of the day it makes no sense. While some have already embraced the dying system because they can use it to add even more stats to their gear I for one would like to see the adding or stats and changing of classes removed in 1.19a along with either making all dyes useable on all gear or at the very least a bit more variety.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illy

The whole Dye thing really confuses me to be honest. Prior to the patch when they said they were gonna add all purpose dyes I was under the impression that one dye could be used to change any item to any color. But that is not how they work. Not only do you NOT have the option of using every color on every item but you also have to take into account that the dyes add stats and can change the class of the item completely(both of which don't make sense and I don't like)

The whole idea of adding materia was to add stats to your gear which they do very well. However the idea of having dye is to allow people to personalize the gear they use to suit their taste and when the gear adds stats it completely voids this mentality. Why would anyone dye something the color they like when a certain color adds a much needed stat? More so then that it basically forces everyone to have gear that looks the same as everyone will use the dye that adds STR or Atk over anything if they are a combat job and the issue is the same on mage, and crafter armor.

At the end of the day it makes no sense. While some have already embraced the dying system because they can use it to add even more stats to their gear I for one would like to see the adding or stats and changing of classes removed in 1.19a along with either making all dyes useable on all gear or at the very least a bit more variety.

---

I feel the same. I thought materia was going to be the way to customize our stats - not also via the limited color options.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Red Wizard can't be red :c with some gear.

Like felt Kecks.

---

I'd kill to be able to wear kecks on conjurer again. I'd really like evasion, i seem to be pretty lucky with it. Hell the blue kecks are DoW and still get Piety over undyed.

We honestly never needed the whole <Item A (Color A)> <Item A (Color B)> <Item A (Color C)> <Item B (Color A)> thing in the first place. With the dawn of universal dyes the color of the gear should no longer matter at all.

I was thinking about how much work it would be to undo all the redone recipes now and theres actually a very simple thing they can do. Dyed gear currently uses the undyed version + extra materias to make a required level version with extra stats, right? Well just drop the dye out of the recipe entirely and make those "extra stat" versions their own piece of gear.

For example:
Cobalt Cuirass (Red) should be renamed to "Advanced* Cobalt Cuirass". It can keep its restrictions, keep its extra stats, and all that because it would be its own separate piece of gear from the regular Cobalt Cuirass. Then all they need to do is add the ability for us to seek a dye job from an Alchemist to freely change the color of either the regular Cobalt Cuirass or the Advanced Cobalt Cuirass.

This would also allow for the future HQ system to work as intended. All HQ mats would make an HQ Cobalt Cuirass. An HQ Cobalt Cuirass + HQ mats would = HQ Advanced Cobalt Cuirass.

*"Advanced" could be replaced with any adjective that implies it is upgraded. "Upgraded" would work too.

Completely agree. Coloring is personal taste and shouldn't force stat changes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razor

We honestly never needed the whole <Item A (Color A)> <Item A (Color B)> <Item A (Color C)> <Item B (Color A)> thing in the first place. With the dawn of universal dyes the color of the gear should no longer matter at all.

I was thinking about how much work it would be to undo all the redone recipes now and theres actually a very simple thing they can do. Dyed gear currently uses the undyed version + extra materias to make a required level version with extra stats, right? Well just drop the dye out of the recipe entirely and make those "extra stat" versions their own piece of gear.

For example:
Cobalt Cuirass (Red) should be renamed to "Advanced* Cobalt Cuirass". It can keep its restrictions, keep its extra stats, and all that because it would be its own separate piece of gear from the regular Cobalt Cuirass. Then all they need to do is add the ability for us to seek a dye job from an Alchemist to freely change the color of either the regular Cobalt Cuirass or the Advanced Cobalt Cuirass.

This would also allow for the future HQ system to work as intended. All HQ mats would make an HQ Cobalt Cuirass. An HQ Cobalt Cuirass + HQ mats would = HQ Advanced Cobalt Cuirass.

*"Advanced" could be replaced with any adjective that implies it is upgraded. "Upgraded" would work too.

---

I like this idea, however..... I would also have liked for the 'advanced' or 'upgraded' piece of armour to include the undyed. ): The wool gown undyed is beautiful, nice clean white. To make it useless like that is a bit weird. I don't see why they can't just broaden our variety of gear. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that conjurers can't wear gear like Kecks for the evasion.
Are all pieces of mage gear simply for boosting mage stats? What the hell? I mean that's fine and everything and I can always find some good materia to add to it for evasion and defence but still. And that's likely what I'd do.

A better thing to do in the future however would make all gear the same with the same base stat, and we'd be able to take it to an NPC to upgrade it like you said to one of the 3 choices for a boost, regardless of dyes. Such as for felt gowns, we take a felt gown (green), equip it as we would for the repair npc, and allow him to upgrade it for a fee. It leaves the dye system alone for aesthetics only and still allows for the unique bonus stats. That way we can have one of the lovely +stats, whatever we choose.

Gear then that has been treated like this will be available to trade, sold in bazaar, and equiped. You'd need to remove this buff from the same NPC before selling it back on the market.

Or they could just give you an option of "builds" for gear before you start synthing, like how the menu comes up if you put in mats that can make multiple items. A system like this would probably have to wait until they revamped the wards so you could see an item's individual stats while searching (ie: variable stats on materia or materia-slotted gear).

Thinking about it now, maybe the dye=stats thing is a placeholder for such a system, and once its implemented we would have gear colored the way we want seperate from the stats.

Bumping for the devs to see - yay for Monday.

I don't understand what you mean by colors. You mean the different hues of brown are exclusive to some classes? o_O() They claimed that the color coding has some failed logic in it that they're planning to remove.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deminia

Bumping for the devs to see - yay for Monday.

---

I think I saw it mentioned somewhere that today is a national holiday in Japan. We may be looking at tomorrow before we hear anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trinta

I think I saw it mentioned somewhere that today is a national holiday in Japan. We may be looking at tomorrow before we hear anything.

---

Doubt you'll hear anything then. They tend to not respond when they know the answer they have isn't the one we want to hear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Doubt you'll hear anything then. They tend to not respond when they know the answer they have isn't the one we want to hear.

---

Hah, I was thinking that, but this is the one issue I do actually expect some sort of response to. The other one that I care about (constant disconnects, I've only been on the forums the past few days because I'm looking for information on that issue!) is the one I expect to be met with the Great Wall of Oh-Did-Someone-Say-Something?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seif

I don't understand what you mean by colors. You mean the different hues of brown are exclusive to some classes? o_O() They claimed that the color coding has some failed logic in it that they're planning to remove.

---

Yup, go look at the gear in the market wards. Undyed gear is generally available to all classes but a colored one, let's say a a Cotton Shepherd's Tunic (green) is only available to Disciplines of the Hand/Land.

At first, I was talking about just the color being class specific, but the stats are also bothering me too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Doubt you'll hear anything then. They tend to not respond when they know the answer they have isn't the one we want to hear.

---

You are probably spot on. I can imagine the devs thinking "We spent months programming this in and now they want it reversed after a few days? Hmm, let me think.............NO." Most players wanted something different than Tanaka was planning. This certainly is different, not what people wanted but we aren't in control of the development. First everyone screamed "get rid of Tanaka" then they screamed "We love Yoshi", now they scream "Yoshi makes us sad :(". SE will probably throw up their hands in frustration and just do whatever they want.

I'd liked to have seen a dye system similar to guild wars or rift but we got what we got and will have to live with it for a while, perhaps forever.

Wow, what's with the sudden defeatism?

I mean, why bother with the feedback forums at all, in that case?

'Fact remains we were ill-informed and mis-lead with regard to how colours would work in the run-up to patch 1.19, and a lot of people aren't pleased about it. There's an even more vocal thread speaking against this on the Japanese subforum (the one that inevitably matters most) and I wouldn't be surprised if there were similar ones in the others, too.

Yes, the developers have a nasty habit of keeping quiet on problem issues (though not always), but they generally speak up, even on difficult subjects, when questions pick up this much steam on this many of the subforums.

And again, yes, someone has pointed it out: today is a Japanese national holiday. We will most likely not get an official response until tomorrow at the earliest.

And while we're at it, 'everyone' didn't scream "get rid of Tanaka" or "we love Yoshi". A majority might have but God knows, I and a fair few others certainly didn't, and I think we're all starting to realise that either way it's Yoichi Wada and co' ought have received all the vitriol for the initial mess, however happy he and the other S-E executives may be to let grow this popular idea of Tanaka as some sort of feckless jerk with whom the fault lies in its entirety.

The reason that different colored equipment now offer different stats was because when making the item-related adjustments, the team changed it so you can easily differentiate stat differences by the color of the gear.

I understand that some people want dyes to just be an aesthetic-only option, and I'll be sure to pass that along to the dev. team along with other feedback.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

The reason that different colored equipment now offer different stats was because when making the item-related adjustments, the team changed it so you can easily differentiate stat differences by the color of the gear.

I understand that some people want dyes to just be an aesthetic-only option, and I'll be sure to pass that along to the dev. team along with other feedback.

---

I think this is great, so long as there are more colors to choose from. If people care more about aesthetics than stats, they should have no problem sacrificing stats for aesthetics.

The people who wan't both will never be satisfied so don't even bother.

Yeah I personally would give up stats for aesthetics since a bulk of the stats will be in materia and I'd be able to balance out by putting more of a certain type of materia to make up for it.

As Roaran said, if we can get more colors available with either duplicate stat spreads or more varied stat spreads (ie: have a Purple robe with the stats of the Green and a Blue robe with the stats of the Red, or have them be in-betweens), there should be something to make most people happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

The reason that different colored equipment now offer different stats was because when making the item-related adjustments, the team changed it so you can easily differentiate stat differences by the color of the gear.

I understand that some people want dyes to just be an aesthetic-only option, and I'll be sure to pass that along to the dev. team along with other feedback.

---

This has to be one of the stupidest, laziest things I've ever heard of. Flame away, I don't care. Seriously, they wanted color-coded clone PCs? Very disappointing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

The reason that different colored equipment now offer different stats was because when making the item-related adjustments, the team changed it so you can easily differentiate stat differences by the color of the gear.

I understand that some people want dyes to just be an aesthetic-only option, and I'll be sure to pass that along to the dev. team along with other feedback.

---

Great. I hope they perceive that this as an unwanted change as a result, but either way thank you for finally giving us an answer Bayohne, and for forwarding our concerns to the developers. A lot of us - myself included - feel very strongly that colour should be purely an aesthetic concern, and I hope threads with similar opinions in the other language forums are seeing just as much attention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roaran

I think this is great, so long as there are more colors to choose from. If people care more about aesthetics than stats, they should have no problem sacrificing stats for aesthetics.
The people who wan't both will never be satisfied so don't even bother.

---

That being said, yes, it's certainly true that I would be more than happy to sacrifice stats for aesthetic reasons - even if I do feel your last jab is unfairly dismissive and a bit rude.

However, to get back to the root of the thread, the real concern is not that the stats on certain items differ based on their colour. The real issue is that certain pieces of gear that are otherwise exactly the same are restricted to certain disciplines based on their colour.

It's all well and good telling us that if we're so worried about how our characters look we shouldn't worry about the stats, but that does not apply when the gear in question has different class-locks on it to other pieces of gear of the same type for no other reason than it being a different colour. IE: Shepherd's Tunic vs Green Shepherd's Tunic.

If nothing else, if you ask me, colour-based class-locking really, really needs to go.

Well, that and we need back all the colour options we had before, whatever the stats may be. Cutting back the number of colours is just plain miserable.

Quote:

---

It's all well and good telling us that if we're so worried about how our characters look we shouldn't worry about the stats, but that does not apply when the gear in question has different class-locks on it to other pieces of gear purely because of its colour.

If nothing else, if you ask me, colour-based class locking really, really needs to go.

---

Definitely! Only major issue I have =)

Quote:

---

The people who want both will never be satisfied so don't even bother.

---

Actually I want both and I would be quite satisfied if they just made it so that all colored gear had the same stat boost (And if were going by wanting to use the default color they could just add a "clear" dye that would just add the stat boost to the base item). Not only would this make dyeing not pointless (In the eyes of those who care only about stats) but it would also make all dye'd stats equivalent so the people who care about color can choose which color they want and not have to worry that someone (Elitists) are going to tell them every five seconds that there not in optimal gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

The reason that different colored equipment now offer different stats was because when making the item-related adjustments, the team changed it so you can easily differentiate stat differences by the color of the gear.

I understand that some people want dyes to just be an aesthetic-only option, and I'll be sure to pass that along to the dev. team along with other feedback.

---

I really like it the way it is. Adds something new and different to the game, plus not everyone looks exactly the same because they want their character to look cool.

I think that "some people" should more accurately represented as "many people" personally, just browsing the forums and talking to people in game the opinion on stat-color locked gear is overwhelmingly negative.

And yes, people who want "both" (i.e. stats and ascetics) CAN be very easily be pleased. Actually, they already added a system that will please us: Materia. We didn't want and don't need gear to be color coded on top of that. If we want to specialize the stats we can do so using the variety stat augmenting materia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

I really like it the way it is. Adds something new and different to the game, plus not everyone looks exactly the same because they want their character to look cool.

---

I don't understand. Please elaborate.

If I'm going to be tanking I wear Cobalt Cuirass set (Red). The Gladiator next to me is also wearing Cobalt Cuirass set (Red). So is every other gladiator who doesn't want to be laughed at for wearing the gimpy silver version.

If I want to be DDing on my PUG instead, guess what I wear? Oh... Red Ranger's Tunic because its better than the white one. Felt Trousers (Red) because they are better than the undyed ones. Cobalt Plated Jackboots (Red).. why? You guessed it! Because they are better than the undyed ones.

The point of the matter is that now everyone WILL look the same because while there is that slim percentage of people who will sacrifice stats over color, most people will not. I for one don't hate the color red persay, but I don't want to look like a fire engine. I'd much rather wear the silver one. But my logical side will prevail and I'm not going to spend money on second rate gear. It does not mean I will enjoy it. And last I checked, I was supposed to enjoy a video game..

I don't think missing out on 4 Attack, 1 Accuracy, 2 Dex, and 3 Parry makes you completely gimp. Stats are in the several-hundreds now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estellios

I don't think missing out on 4 Attack, 1 Accuracy, 2 Dex, and 3 Parry makes you completely gimp. Stats are in the several-hundreds now.

---

In the grand scheme of things, it may not. But still, if you're going to drop a healthy penny on a piece of gear, to me its only logical to buy the best you can get. It has never been uncommon for MMO players to go to outrageous lengths to get that extra point of stat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

The reason that different colored equipment now offer different stats was because when making the item-related adjustments, the team changed it so you can easily differentiate stat differences by the color of the gear.

I understand that some people want dyes to just be an aesthetic-only option, and I'll be sure to pass that along to the dev. team along with other feedback.

---

Hi Bayohne,

Thanks for the reply and reasoning behind the Color-Locked System in 1.19.

I'm normally a proponent for unique Class-Specific Gear (like Artifact Armor (AF) from FF XI), but I agree with most people on this thread: There's no reason to make it unique based on Color alone.

I realize it's a cost-effective (arguably lazy) way to get some Class-Specific Gear out, but Color is one of the best things that we had in the original XIV. It allowed some customization for players for pure looks (everyone has a favorite color).

The ideal solution is having unique 3D Models for specific Stat Differences (maybe a certain Ribbon or the small facet looks), while allowing everyone to have Colors for aesthetics only.