Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide

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Originally Posted by ilmynasa

Nope, doubt they'd change that.

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Honestly, with a reduction in Enkindle recast, I could see it going either way.

SS isn't getting a buff. It simply won't be useless.

Previously, roughly 50% of a summoner's dps was from dots, so SS was 50% efficiency.

Now it'll be 100% efficiency. We'll see if it is actually worthwhile, and if mana will be an issue.

For example, lets assume 100SS increases dps by 1%, well if 100 crit still increases dps by 1%, then we'll still go crit, because it doesn't have any mana inefficiency issues.

You see the point here, unless SS is overbalanced in that it provides more dps/point than other stuff, it won't be used, it is still the least useful of the stats, if we assume similar damage contribution.

Radiant Shield now procs "everytime physical damage is suffered by self or nearby party members".
Isn't that wonderful?

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Originally Posted by luizf_sp

Radiant Shield now procs "everytime physical damage is suffered by self or nearby party members".
Isn't that wonderful?

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Whats that? SMN intentionally suicides party for additional dps?

More at 11.

The tank probably counts as a nearby party member, though. An additional 50 potency everytime the tank takes a physical hit for 20 seconds would be really nice.

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Originally Posted by luizf_sp

The tank probably counts as a nearby party member, though. No idea why you'd have to sacrifice anyone.

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Yeah exactly. Also with Egi's always getting Rear Accuracy, you can have him right beside the tank if needed as long as he doesn't get cleaved too hard.

You guys really aren't any fun. Yikes.

Also, if aoes count you could totally divebomb your group for additional dps.

I'm totally calling it, SMN behaving like jerks on farm content.

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Originally Posted by luizf_sp

Radiant Shield now procs "everytime physical damage is suffered by self or nearby party members".
Isn't that wonderful?

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Any idea what the changes to the other pet commands are?

First post ever!

I didn't spend much time in the game on launch and am just coming back. Just wanted to say thank you to everyone keeping this thread going. Very good info to have at my fingertips while planning my SMN route!

Garland DB has the skill data mines out..... with the trans it didn't say it'll consume stacks, and since the CD is every 30s (instead of 60s with aetherflow), with 15s duration, I believe you CAN use aetherflow, aetherflow skills during trans, and on top of that, the 3 bahamut stacks will stay so you'd be aiming to trans every 30s for 15s (50% of the fight).

And ruin3's potency is 120 according to the DB.

Oh god I forsee smn nerf coming 3.05.....

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Originally Posted by ilmynasa

Garland DB has the skill data mines out..... with the trans it didn't say it'll consume stacks, and since the CD is every 30s (instead of 60s with aetherflow), with 15s duration, I believe you CAN use aetherflow, aetherflow skills during trans, and on top of that, the 3 bahamut stacks will stay so you'd be aiming to trans every 30s for 15s (50% of the fight).

And ruin3's potency is 120 according to the DB.

Oh god I forsee smn nerf coming 3.05.....

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Garland DB is now down, due to a request from Yoshi-P.

http://puu.sh/itIgd/956b79e27c.png

Is that seriously right? 26K mp for a 200 potency? How bout we just make that into a fricking mana burn and have a 1-1 mana/dmg ratio <_<

It uses an Aetherflow stack, does not actually cost any mana. Take a look at this image, you can notice Energy Drain has the same cost and Fester.
http://i.imgur.com/2wrnr0m.png

For Garuda, wouldn't it be better to save contagion+raging strikes+pot for when you go into DWS so that the DoTs will be buffed by the 10%+RS+Pot ?

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Originally Posted by ilmynasa

Garland DB has the skill data mines out..... with the trans it didn't say it'll consume stacks, and since the CD is every 30s (instead of 60s with aetherflow), with 15s duration, I believe you CAN use aetherflow, aetherflow skills during trans, and on top of that, the 3 bahamut stacks will stay so you'd be aiming to trans every 30s for 15s (50% of the fight).

And ruin3's potency is 120 according to the DB.

Oh god I forsee smn nerf coming 3.05.....

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Doing so would require holding onto the last aetherdam stack to refresh the duration of the bahamut stacks while you're in dread trance. SMN opener just got super loaded, and added real play to the class in between aetherflow cds

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Originally Posted by sasdas

It uses an Aetherflow stack, does not actually cost any mana.

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imma hold my doubts on that, be kinda funny if it says that much in game, go in, try to hit something and says no mp even without stacks. Or could be bad mining. All I know is, it shows something completely different outside the usual 0 mp and aetherflow stack req for bane and fester. Sooo, meh

E to sas's image: Sorry, but you are right, i kneejerked only because I don't watch ability datamined sites like others, and went on what is shown from the library app.

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Originally Posted by ilmynasa

Garland DB has the skill data mines out..... with the trans it didn't say it'll consume stacks, and since the CD is every 30s (instead of 60s with aetherflow), with 15s duration, I believe you CAN use aetherflow, aetherflow skills during trans, and on top of that, the 3 bahamut stacks will stay so you'd be aiming to trans every 30s for 15s (50% of the fight).

And ruin3's potency is 120 according to the DB.

Oh god I forsee smn nerf coming 3.05.....

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Yeah, but since Attunement is still tied to Aetherflow (3 Stacks @ 60s to reach Trance) you are limited outside of the opener to 1 Dreadwyrm Trance per Aetherflow.

So it looks like Death Flare will be a part of the normal rotation (used just before the Trance falls off)

There is a very small window for Ruin III usage

3D could be timed with the use of Trance to ensure the most Ruin III uptime

AOE - Trance -> SC SF -> Pain Flare -> 3D -> Bane -> M2 -> Death Flare -> Pain Flare (Happy Days)

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Opener?

RS -> POT -> B2 -> M -> B -> Fester -> (Trance probably wont effect Pets so you're probably safe to Rouse/Spur Enkindle) R2 -> Pain Flare -> R2 etc to Fester -> R2 -> Trance -> 3D -> R3 spam -> Death Flare (weaving Festers etc)

Dat Enkindle cast time reduction though...

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Yeah, but since Attunement is still tied to Aetherflow (3 Stacks @ 60s to reach Trance) you are limited outside of the opener to 1 Dreadwyrm Trance per Aetherflow.

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Yes, that's assuming when you exit trance, your attunement is reset to 0, by means of either deathflare consuming 3 or the trance itself consume 3.

IF, the attunement stacks will not be consumed but rather just refreshed (like grease lighting), you can maintain a constant 3 stacks of attunement by spreading out your fester/painflares within the 60s of aetherflow CD (aka, make sure you will have another aetherflow ready within the next 30s if you use one aetherflow).
But like I said, this is assuming you can keep the attunement stacks. Which I think kind of make sense looking at the CD for dreadwyre trance.

EDIT: Womp nvm

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

OK So with 3.0 here we have to test a few new things:

1) Ifrits / Titans damage modifiers. (BRD- Foe / Slashing debuff (WAR/NIN) / MNK Dragon Kick
2) Pet Accuracy (Confirm if it is in fact equal to a SMNs or not)
3) The immensely long opener (lvl 60 preferably)
4) INT / SS / DET: Strongest damage modifiers and how they balance against each other for both SMN skills and Pet abilities, particularly interested in SS vs DET for DoT damage individually and overall damage done entirely, and SS + DET vs CRIT +SS vs CRIT + DET

Gonna add this to the second post as well and will edit that as we figure this out. Eventually it will be absorbed into the main post.

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I think Ifrit will no longer be affected by Dragon Kick since all his attacks were changed from Blunt to Elemental. His AA is still slashing however so Storm's Eye and Dancing Edge will be a DPS boost still.

Assuming you can use AF stacks inside of DWS, wouldn't this be a good opener ?

Pre pull: Shadowflare+Spur+Rouse

Bio 2 as Tank is pulling > Miasmi > Bio > Enkindle > R2 > Fester > R2 > ED > R2 > Painflare > AF+DWS> RS+Pot > Tri-disaster > Fester > Miasmi 2 > SC > Shadowflare+Contagion > R3x2 > R2 > Fester > R3 > R2 > Deathflare.

That way, you will get fully buffed DoTs(DWS 10% Increase + Pot + RS + Contagion).

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Assuming you can use AF stacks inside of DWS, wouldn't this be a good opener ?

Pre pull: Shadowflare+Spur+Rouse

Bio 2 as Tank is pulling > Miasmi > Bio > Enkindle > R2 > Fester > R2 > Painflare > AF+DWS> RS+Pot > Tri-disaster > Fester > Miasmi 2 > SC > Shadowflare+Contagion > R3x2 > R2 > Fester > R3 > R2 > Deathflare.

That way, you will get fully buffed DoTs(DWS 10% Increase + Pot + RS + Contagion).

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You need to burn 3 Aetherflow stacks to get into DWT. So basically you would need to use ED somewhere before because the other two would be on CD.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually not worth waiting with Raging + Pot. You basically have to wait, 5-6 GCDS which is about... 5 ticks? without buffed Dots on top of Potency loss from Fester, Painflare and ED outside of Raging and Pot.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Opener?

RS -> POT -> B2 -> M -> B -> Fester -> (Trance probably wont effect Pets so you're probably safe to Rouse/Spur Enkindle) R2 -> Pain Flare -> R2 etc to Fester -> R2 -> Trance -> 3D -> R3 spam -> Death Flare (weaving Festers etc)

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I imagine it might be stronger to save RS+Pot until the second Fester or even the Painflare, so it stacks nicely with Dreadwyrm Trance, ending right after Deathflare.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

snip.

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Oh my bad, ED is probably between Fester/painflare(Edited my OP). And I don't really understand your second statement. You will still get to use Festerx2+Deathflare with RS+Pot which would be better than using RS+Pot on Painflare+Fester+ED.

Wouldn't it be better to open with Tri-Disaster instead of applying all DoT's by themselves?

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Oh my bad, ED is probably between Fester/painflare(Edited my OP). And I don't really understand your second statement. You will still get to use Festerx2+Deathflare with RS+Pot which would be better than using RS+Pot on Painflare+Fester+ED.

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Well the second set of AF stacks will be buffed, but thats going to happen regardless?

Kinda like uh forgo the buffs on the initial skills pre DWT, to super buff everything else in DWT but...

Using one set of buffs here and then having the second set of buffs on the later half, will probably even out the same way. Obviously would have to be tested if its worth waiting that long. We also don't know if you can be in DWT when you use AF.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

Wouldn't it be better to open with Tri-Disaster instead of applying all DoT's by themselves?

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That depends on if you can better take advantage of overlapping buffs at the end of the opener.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

snip.

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Except this way, your Deathflare will be buffed with Pot+RS and your contagion'd DoTs will be buffed with the 10% from DWS. This is of course, assuming you can be in DWT while using AF.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Except this way, your Deathflare will be buffed with Pot+RS and your contagion'd DoTs will be buffed with the 10% from DWS. This is of course, assuming you can be in DWT while using AF.

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You can still have a buffed Deathflare in the opening, now... Contagion'd DoTs....why cant you just use Tri - D when DWS is up to clip all the current DoTs and then Contagion later? Clipping these Dots doesn't hurt you because that is a free oGCD to reapply no? Or am I looking at this wrong?

Idk somehow I don't think that 10% from DWT is gonna be that decisive of a boost to wait out Raging Strikes and Pot usage from all the skills prior to going into DWT although I guess that just needs to be tested anyway.

EDIT: If anything, I think you might actually shift the Pot usage, to use Tri - D later when DWT comes up but before Raging Strikes falls off.

It is pretty hard imagine the best rotation since you do not know how long animation times are. Like can you use tri disaster + fester + painflare + energy drain + wyrm stance in the same global.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

You can still have a buffed Deathflare in the opening, now... Contagion'd DoTs....why cant you just use Tri - D when DWS is up to clip all the current DoTs and then Contagion later? Clipping these Dots doesn't hurt you because that is a free oGCD to reapply no? Or am I looking at this wrong?

Idk somehow I don't think that 10% from DWT is gonna be that decisive of a boost to wait out Raging Strikes and Pot usage from all the skills prior to going into DWT.

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How can I have a buffed Deathflare in the opening ? If you used RS+Int pre pull, your deathflare won't be buffed by either unless you use it as soon as you enter DWS, which is obviously not ideal since you will be missing out on the 10% damage increase+ Ruin 3s. And while clipping the DoTs can work, I find that having buffed Ruin 3s+2x Festers + Deathflare is better than having buffed Fester+ED+Painflare.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

How can I have a buffed Deathflare in the opening ? If you used RS+Int pre pull, your deathflare won't be buffed by either unless you use it as soon as you enter DWS, which is obviously not ideal since you will be missing out on the 10% damage increase+ Ruin 3s. And while clipping the DoTs can work, I find that having buffed Ruin 3s+2x Festers + Deathflare is better than having buffed Fester+ED+Painflare.

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The opening I was thinking of is uh..

Shadowflare before pull -> Raging -> Ruin I -> Ruin II -> Pot-> Tri - D -> (assuming all Dots apply immediately) -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Pain Flare (possibly used with Fester in one GCD if you are pushing the GCD with pot + Tri -D) -> Ruin II -> ED -> DWT + AF -> Ruin III -> Ruin III -> Swift Shadow -> (Fester -> DeathFlare ) Pot and raging fall off after Deathflare.

Something like that.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

The opening I was thinking of is uh..

Shadowflare before pull -> Raging -> Ruin I -> Ruin II -> Pot-> Tri - D -> (assuming all Dots apply immediately) -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Pain Flare -> Ruin II -> ED -> DWT + AF -> Ruin III -> Ruin III -> Swift Shadow -> (DeathFlare -> Fester ) Pot and raging fall off after this Fester.

Something like that.

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I don't think you will get the full 10% damage increase duration with that, but again, it might not be worth it so I don't know, guess I am just gonna have to wait and test it out first.

Basically everyone needs to rush to 60 asap before we can figure out a new opener. All I know is too many things in the opener now. Also have to think about Garuda vs Ifrit in the opener again. While DWT certainly boosts SMN DPS via Contagioning stronger DoTs, Radiant shield is pretty OP with 50 potency for every time a nearby party member receives damage? That's potency right there with auto attacks from the boss on the main tank.

Pretty sure 50 potency per auto attack, will offset the 10% potency from Contagion'd DWT DoTs by alot.

......Dungeon Pulls.....6 mobs. Rouse/Spur Radiant Shield lmao.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...eview?sle=true

Nice bit of theorycrafting on Reddit, credit to /u/Haisquared

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Originally Posted by Meleoffs

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...eview?sle=true

Nice bit of theorycrafting on Reddit, credit to /u/Haisquared

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I definitely agree there is still too much information we don't know about to properly map out an opener entirely. Once people get to 60, I intend on making a DPS spreadsheet on how much potency we can get in an opener and we can figure it out better.

Just a lot...of stuff... to keep track of....

Be ready to get all those BLM rerolling to SMN. It will be fun.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

Be ready to get all those BLM rerolling to SMN. It will be fun.

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don't forget to add the, 'why does my pet keep dieing?' question from em, or even the 'why can't i just set it and forget it?' from more than likely fresh faces to the game itself. XD