Formal Letter to SE about RMT situation.

/signed

best post on this subject i've seen yet

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Originally Posted by Felghanna

First: Do you realize how many players are online on your server right now? (a hint: it's more than your friend list can tell)

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And that matters how? They could all sign this petition and SE still wouldn't stop everything that they are doing and implement the measures to prevent most RMT spam.
Companies have to want to stop them and implement measures to filter out the RMT. SE hasn't displayed the want to change anything at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Felghanna

Second: Did you played every MMO to say this information is accurate?

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I've played a lot of MMOs and I've read the replies of others in other numerous RMT threads that call out other games with RMT problems. RMT and MMOs go hand in hand. They will forever.

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Originally Posted by Felghanna

Third: Let's say for a moment that most of players from every server signs a petition against RMT sites. Do you think no one will notice about it?

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First off, I'm not saying that the /tell filters and reporting aren't good ideas. But I am saying that there can be a huge petition against an RMT site and the NA side of SE will notice it but that it will amount to nothing. You are saying RMT sites. SE cannot attack an RMT site.
Let's say that again...
You're talking about RMT sites and SE cannot do anything about those. They only hold dominion over their own.

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Originally Posted by Felghanna

Fourth: Return to the first thing I said. I know, you are saying your prayers for a god that doesn't listen for one year. We all want the same thing, why don't we just fight for it?

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The first thing you said has nothing to do with this fourth thing you're saying.

And yea, people do want the same thing in this thread. However, signing a petition and hoping that the NA support gives it to the JP side and that fixes everything isn't going to work. Suggestions are what makes it happen, giving them the ideas needed make it happen. You are literally just asking people to sign nothing and throw that at SE like somehow it will be surprising.

Fact: SE knows about how the NA have issues with RMT. They know. They'll do things in their own time frame.

So basically you are thinking that the petition is for Square Enix close a RMT website? So you're missing the point here.
And then you say that you didn't play EVERY MMO, but all those you played have RMT, informative.
Since the beginning you wasn't agreeing with anyone, now you want to take back what you said in the beginning to have an argument? Please, don't bother.

This thread was made to say that every act from Square Enix doesn't have any effect against the RMT, if you want to wait for their solution, go ahead, isn't necessary to repeat.

Either way the ideals that lies here will need a lot of signs.

/sign

I use busy mode all the time. It blocks all tells and friend invites. Downside is it blocks party invites and trades, so if a legitimate request is made i have to take it off.

That's for the symptoms, now for the cause... It is common knowledge RMT use a credit card multiple times and then declare it stolen to waive the fees. As i suggested before, suspending a gold seller is good, but suspending his credit card's accounts is better. I don't know if they make multiple accounts up front, but even if they did, removing one gold seller and then all the accounts on the same credit card would slow them down a lot.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Fact: SE knows about how the NA have issues with RMT. They know. They'll do things in their own time frame.

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I sincerely hope that it happens before Heavensward or they will cripple their own sales for no reason.

This thread is pointless... There is only one solution to eliminating RMT... QUIT BUYING GIL. That being said I have not received a RMT tell since January and I stay logged in for days then again that's when I moved to Fenrir. If it's one thing you should take from XI's anti-RMT tactics it's that anything they do will be a negative for the general public and easily circumvented by RMT...

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Originally Posted by Treymok

This thread is pointless... There is only one solution to eliminating RMT... QUIT BUYING GIL. That being said I have not received a RMT tell since January and I stay logged in for days then again that's when I moved to Fenrir. If it's one thing you should take from XI's anti-RMT tactics it's that anything they do will be a negative for the general public and easily circumvented by RMT...

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I would argue that you saying to people not to buy gil is even more pointless. People will in most cases take the easiest route when it is available to them, regardless of if it is ethical or not. The best way to stop the gilbuying is to make examples out of people, by banning them permanently. This takes out customers from the potential pool of gilbuyers, as well as making other customers think twice about buying gil. This, yet again, falls on SE.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I would argue that you saying to people not to buy gil is even more pointless. People will in most cases take the easiest route when it is available to them, regardless of it is ethical or not. The best way to stop the gilbuying is to make examples out of people, by banning them permanently. This takes out customers from the potential pool of gilbuyers, as well as making other customers think twice about buying gil. This, yet again, falls on SE.

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They already ban people for buying and selling gil. A RMT spam account is new and has no gil to sell or any ties to the actual gil accounts so what do you propose they do to combat this that doesn't adversely affect regular players?

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Originally Posted by Treymok

They already ban people for buying and selling gil. A RMT spam account is new and has no gil to sell or any ties to the actual gil accounts so what do you propose they do to combat this that doesn't adversely affect regular players?

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It's been said. Improving the features and quality of life is key. Adding a right click report function, increasing blacklist capacity, adding custom chat filters. Heck, maybe they can even hire a 4th person to that special task force of theirs!

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Originally Posted by Treymok

This thread is pointless... There is only one solution to eliminating RMT... QUIT BUYING GIL. That being said I have not received a RMT tell since January and I stay logged in for days then again that's when I moved to Fenrir. If it's one thing you should take from XI's anti-RMT tactics it's that anything they do will be a negative for the general public and easily circumvented by RMT...

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There's nothing pointless about letting SE know that we want a reduced presence of RMT and other qol adjustments to make them less of a distraction. Things like a simple chat filter, oneclick no friend request, or Right Click > Report would be so easy to put in the game.

What's pointless is stating the one solution which can never be achieved.

Giving this a much needed bump.

I will sign, most certainly. Though, why not just gate the player search function by a level lock or something? Because that's how these RMT bots are finding people to send them tells and friend requests (or at least I imagine). They find you in player search, send you and massive amounts of others two to three quick ads, character deletes itself, rinse and repeat. If you make it so that fresh level ones can't use the player search feature that might drastically reduce the use of this tactic. Granted, they'll then resort to shout ads, but those seem to get caught a lot quicker than the /tell kinds.

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Originally Posted by DreadRabbit

I will sign, most certainly. Though, why not just gate the player search function by a level lock or something? Because that's how these RMT bots are finding people to send them tells and friend requests (or at least I imagine). They find you in player search, send you and massive amounts of others two to three quick ads, character deletes itself, rinse and repeat. If you make it so that fresh level ones can't use the player search feature that might drastically reduce the use of this tactic. Granted, they'll then resort to shout ads, but those seem to get caught a lot quicker than the /tell kinds.

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Tbh, level gating is the idea I am most in favor of. Not just for player search, but for /tells I would also not have a problem with. If you are below level 10 for example, you cannot whisper anyone unless they whisper you first. It would definitely deter them at least a little bit if they had to level to 10 each time just to get banned and have to do it over.

People like to think the right click > report idea is a great idea, but I believe it's just a waste of time. SE can already detect the ad spammers without people reporting them. It's not hard to put mechanisms in place to auto-detect spammers. The problem is that they keep coming back as new accounts. Right click>report does nothing to fix that. If every player right click> reports, there will be enough reports to DDOS the server, much less have anyone read through them.

/signed

I'm sick of having to /busy in order to not be spammed.

I seriously don't understand how and why we don't have a "Report Spammer" feature built into the game via right clicking. If an account whispers 5 people and even 3 of them flag it as spam, then remove the account's ability to whisper for 24 hours, minimum.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Tbh, level gating is the idea I am most in favor of. Not just for player search, but for /tells I would also not have a problem with. If you are below level 10 for example, you cannot whisper anyone unless they whisper you first. It would definitely deter them at least a little bit if they had to level to 10 each time just to get banned and have to do it over.

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It wouldn't deter spam bots nearly as much as it would deter genuine players, though, simply because the spam bots could adjust to it. Once the rule is in place, the spam bots' scripts would be updated to level to wherever the requirement is and then start their spam. Sure, it might stop it for the first day or two, until the gil sellers get those scripts updated, but after that it wouldn't really have any effect, at least not on them.

It would, however, continue to affect all actual new players who joined to meet up with their friends but are now excluded from being able to find them or talk to them. Now, admittedly, not all new players will care. Those who don't have friends already here or joining at the same time probably wouldn't have much reason to use player search during their first few levels anyway. But I'd rather avoid solutions that would drive away those who do.

I guess if two new players who were friends got into the game at the same time they could not whisper each other. Truth be told, ruling everything out then, custom chat filters and banning the gilbuyers are probably the only effective measures.

To be honest, right click report function will make it more convenient for sure, but you guys forget these RMT can just make account after account. That very same fact is the reason increased blacklist capacity won't do too much either. I merely suggest those things because they are easy to implement and will ease the player's minds a bit. Not to mention they should be the standard for MMOs nowadays. But it's really a band-aid and not a cure.

/sign Sparda MaddHatter (goblin)

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I guess if two new players who were friends got into the game at the same time they could not whisper each other. Truth be told, ruling everything out then, custom chat filters and banning the gilbuyers are probably the only effective measures.

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Most of the time when I am playing with a friend in a new game we use Teamspeak or Skype. We hardly use the chat function at all. If I am meeting new people naturally I will want to text with them over Skype as I don't know them. I have been in MMOs with a tell gate of at least level 10 I've seen some with a tell gate of level 20 to combat the RMT spam. Often times in order to get rid of a disease you need a cure with some side effects. :)

As a new player, I agree that the gill selling spam seems pretty out of control. Unless I set myself to /busy, I get at least 10 tells every half hour of gameplay. There's also lots of gill selling spam in Gridania etc. I've been adding players to my blocklist and reporting them when I have the time, but the number of tells I get doesn't seem to decrease. Has there been any official response to this by Square Enix?

Personally, I think that levelgating the player list (and possibly the /tell command, which is already disabled on free trial accounts regardless of level) would be a good way to go. I don't know much about bot scripting, but it strikes me that it is much harder to write a script that would level a character to level 10 than it is to make a script that creates a new character and spams people.

/petition signed as Ramor Fang (Lumia)

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Originally Posted by Tincuptaru

Most of the time when I am playing with a friend in a new game we use Teamspeak or Skype. We hardly use the chat function at all. If I am meeting new people naturally I will want to text with them over Skype as I don't know them. I have been in MMOs with a tell gate of at least level 10 I've seen some with a tell gate of level 20 to combat the RMT spam. Often times in order to get rid of a disease you need a cure with some side effects. :)

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Heh, well said. It's just a shame that RMTs make this something that's had to be done in certain MMOs...

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Alternatively a straight up "decline all party, friend, and FC invites" tick-boxes would go a long way to culling the harassment in the game.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

This could be useful. The FC invites because people aren't generally going to join an FC who invites them unless they're actually looking for an FC. The Friend invites because anyone genuinely trying to set up a Friend connection is going to talk to the person first, so it could easily be allowed only when needed but blocked from these RMT bots the rest of the time. And the party invites just because otherwise they'd likely become the RMT's next haven once Friend requests can be blocked.

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I mentioned it because I have seen it in other games and it certainly cuts down on the obnoxious things that both RMT and nuisance players do. However the "right click report" also exists in another game... but in said game, it doesn't work from the chat list, only if you can see the character. So it's much the same argument we are having here about how to prevent bots from spamming.

If you look when bots send a spam, they're usually level 1 and standing somewhere inside Ul'dah (at least on my server.) The "correct" fix for this is to have deletion cooldowns. If I ignore a spam for about 10 minutes, and THEN try to blacklist it, it will say the character is not found. So they're obviously doing something along the lines of either deleting the character and re-creating it, or just cycling through all their stolen RMT buyers accounts.

Increasing the blacklist size is actually rather useless because you can delete the blacklist every sunday morning and you'll still never see a spam from any of the bots you previously blocked last week. So this is barking up the wrong tree.

Level gating tells just doesn't work because instead of the bots hanging around somewhere easy for GM's to see like cows ready to be slaughtered, they will instead run off and kill stuff until they hit the necessary level. I assure you this is a worst situation than just letting them stand around. If you level gate tells, then they will just create 100's of bots to grind through the easy monsters until they get over the level gate. That is a much worse problem, as at least the spam bots aren't killing all the quest mobs needed by new players. As it is, the RMT bots do this already. You'll see two dozen bots teleporting underground killing everything in a 50 yalm range faster than any human player will even get a chance to blink. Fortunately (or unfortunately) they seem to only do this until a dungeon is available and then they spam that instead, rendering most of the game accessible.

A more correct mechanism is having an actual tutorial for chat mechanics that pushes the player or bot into an instance so that any would-be spammer can't tell before they get it, and can't tell during it. So instead of a level gate, you use this as a deletion timer flag. Once the tutorial is completed, the character can't be deleted for 24 hours or something like that. That gives the GM's the opportunity to actually deal with the bots rather than seeing a lot of spam-and-delete that is the current trend for RMT spammers in every MMO recently.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I mentioned it because I have seen it in other games and it certainly cuts down on the obnoxious things that both RMT and nuisance players do. However the "right click report" also exists in another game... but in said game, it doesn't work from the chat list, only if you can see the character. So it's much the same argument we are having here about how to prevent bots from spamming.

If you look when bots send a spam, they're usually level 1 and standing somewhere inside Ul'dah (at least on my server.) The "correct" fix for this is to have deletion cooldowns. If I ignore a spam for about 10 minutes, and THEN try to blacklist it, it will say the character is not found. So they're obviously doing something along the lines of either deleting the character and re-creating it, or just cycling through all their stolen RMT buyers accounts.

Increasing the blacklist size is actually rather useless because you can delete the blacklist every sunday morning and you'll still never see a spam from any of the bots you previously blocked last week. So this is barking up the wrong tree.

Level gating tells just doesn't work because instead of the bots hanging around somewhere easy for GM's to see like cows ready to be slaughtered, they will instead run off and kill stuff until they hit the necessary level. I assure you this is a worst situation than just letting them stand around. If you level gate tells, then they will just create 100's of bots to grind through the easy monsters until they get over the level gate. That is a much worse problem, as at least the spam bots aren't killing all the quest mobs needed by new players. As it is, the RMT bots do this already. You'll see two dozen bots teleporting underground killing everything in a 50 yalm range faster than any human player will even get a chance to blink. Fortunately (or unfortunately) they seem to only do this until a dungeon is available and then they spam that instead, rendering most of the game accessible.

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Deletion CD's is another easy to throw in thing that would help. 3 every 24 hours or so won't really hurt the newbies. I agree that level gating isn't the answer, that only hurts new players. I mean, they are bots, they don't mind having to grind a few levels to use chat, but I'm sure a fresh player looking for help from friends or other players would.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

A more correct mechanism is having an actual tutorial for chat mechanics that pushes the player or bot into an instance so that any would-be spammer can't tell before they get it, and can't tell during it. So instead of a level gate, you use this as a deletion timer flag. Once the tutorial is completed, the character can't be deleted for 24 hours or something like that. That gives the GM's the opportunity to actually deal with the bots rather than seeing a lot of spam-and-delete that is the current trend for RMT spammers in every MMO recently.

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I did not think about the monster grind, and I have to say your idea is definitely better. A lot harder to program a bot to get through a precise tutorial than it is to just put a level gate. Also, I agree with the deletion timer on characters. That alone would slow things down significantly.

/signed
Kendra Nomura (Adamantoise)
i think the option to recieve tells from cetain sources is a good idea. like friends only.

I have noticed there are quite a few people whose very first posts on this forum are to sign this petition. That should be a rather telling sign. Are you listening SE? This is a huge problem that affects a large portion of your players, and it's NOT going away with your current model. This isn't something you just brush to the side and ignore. We want answers. We want action.

/Signed by Khloe Zhwan of Ultros

I really support the idea of a Regular Expression Chat Filter option. I've seen a lot of evidence that points to the fact that a RegEx chat filter would be able to filter about 95-98% of all annoying gil-spam messages.

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Originally Posted by Tristamwolf

/Signed by Khloe Zhwan of Ultros

I really support the idea of a Regular Expression Chat Filter option. I've seen a lot of evidence that points to the fact that a RegEx chat filter would be able to filter about 95-98% of all annoying gil-spam messages.

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I believe chat filters provides a good combination of ease of implementation plus the least intrusive method against players. I still highly favor this idea. Most of the other ideas present a downside. For example...

-Level gating /tells.(Can stop two friends under the level gate from able to whisper each other if implemented.)
-Go after the gilbuyers(Not as easy to do as it sounds.)
-Adding a right click report option.(The RMTs will simply come back on another account and resume the spamming, little would change.)
-Increasing blacklist capacity.(The RMTs will simply come back on another account and resume the spamming, little would change.)
-Go after the suppliers(I actually don't see too much of a downside to this either.)
-Account wide blacklist(This will do little, as RMTs jump from account to account anyways after bein banned.)
-Allow /tells only once every 5 seconds or so.(Doesn't hurt players too much, but would be a minor annoyance for people who type fast for sure.)
-Allow /tell filters only between friends.(Would hurt crafters, and people in general like sending /tells to strangers sometimes.
-Implement custom chat filters (No downside that I can see. Unless the filters were not implemented properly and filtered out legit messages as well.)

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I believe chat filters provides a good combination of ease of implementation plus the least intrusive method against players. I still highly favor this idea.

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My only concern with a "chat filter" is that, unless it is allowed to be user-defined, it is going to be bypassed quickly. Remember, RMT is run by hundreds, if not thousands, of thinking human beings, primarily in Asian countries. Unless each players chat filter is different, its only going to be a matter of minutes before RMT can bypass any regular expression.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

My only concern with a "chat filter" is that, unless it is allowed to be user-defined, it is going to be bypassed quickly. Remember, RMT is run by hundreds, if not thousands, of thinking human beings, primarily in Asian countries. Unless each players chat filter is different, its only going to be a matter of minutes before RMT can bypass any regular expression.

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Yeah, I assumed with chat filters that it would be user-defined. It would only make sense imo. But knowing SE if they did implement chat filters they wouldn't allow it to be user defined, lol.

A user-defined chat filter would be amazing.

Oh no! If you guys hadn't made this thread they would never have been aware! /sarcasm.

Seriously they are aware. How ignorant do you guys think Square is? They had this same problem when they ran XI and they are well aware of it. This isn't a unique problem for them that they are completely unaware of. The extreme increase in banning's from the last wave is clearly indicative of that fact.

The addition of yet ANOTHER one of these threads is literally adding zero value. They are already well aware. Making it a "formal letter" won't change anything nor will the petition that it somehow became. (On that note you may want to think about what your goal is a bit better. Is it a formal letter or a petition? Seriously) The only thing we can really do is wait for them to even get a chance to look at the problem. A new thread about this every week isn't helping anyone.

A lot of disconnects from reality in this thread just because you're annoyed. Think about the situation a little deeper and ask yourself if you REALLY think square isn't aware of the problem already before you start yet another thread. It's beyond likely that they are just too busy with the expansion to deal with the sudden influx of spammers that coincided directly with the 2.55 release fast enough for each of you to be anywhere near content. It's only been a week since that patch and since that uptick in activity after all so why don't people try to find some patience. It's a virtue after all. It's not like Square is crazy busy finishing up a massive expansion or anything..oh yeah.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Oh no! If you guys hadn't made this thread they would never have been aware! /sarcasm.

Seriously they are aware. How ignorant do you guys think Square is? They had this same problem when they ran XI and they are well aware of it. This isn't a unique problem for them that they are completely unaware of. The extreme increase in banning's from the last wave is clearly indicative of that fact. It's highly likely the engine is already doing as much as it can to curtail spam and won't be capable of more until the program it to actually be capable of more. Which, considering their are polishing off their expansion at the moment, means it will likely not happen in the extreme short term.

A lot of disconnects from reality in this thread just because you're annoyed. It's not the end of the world. Simmer down.

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Try being on a server where you get spammed every single minute of the day. I know for a fact Balmung is a relatively "safe" server in comparison to smaller ones.

Also, this has gone on long enough don't you think? It HAS been going on since FFXI. So over a decade and they still either haven't figured it out, or don't care enough to deal with this seriously. So yeah, I want them to know how many people are unhappy at this very moment because of their policies when it comes to RMT. If you think I'm wasting my time that's your opinion but there's no harm whatsoever in trying. I'm done taking it sitting down. Sometimes, to get things done you have to stand up and make yourself heard. If this petition of mine makes even a tiny impact on the minds of the devs and SE, I'll have accomplished what I set out to do. If it makes no impact whatsoever? Well then, at least I tried instead of just giving up and timidly being a constant yes man for SE when they are so obviously in the wrong here.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Try being on a server where you get spammed every single minute of the day. I know for a fact Balmung is a relatively "safe" server in comparison to smaller ones.

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The uptick in spamming was real last Tuesday with 2.55 on Balmung as well. Don't presume sir. It doesn't change anything about the rest of my message though. Square knows already. This thread literally is nothing more than a place to blow of steam. The mere existence of this thread presumes that square is not aware of the problem so as I said above...

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How ignorant do you guys think Square is?

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We've had over a dozen of these threads already.

By all means please continue acting like every mmo doesn't struggle with this same problem. A severe disconnect from reality right there. Any expectations for Square to suddenly beat what all MMO's have fought against from the beginning is unrealistic at a minimum. Regardless what the game should be doesn't change what it is. What it is is a game having spam problems. What it is also is a game where it's entire development team is knee deep in expansion content. So it's equally unrealistic from everyone here to expect a quick turn around.

I'm not saying it isn't annoying. I'm saying the expectations from the players for a sudden and immediate fix at this exact point in time is completely unrealistic. People need to simmer down and let the expansion come out before making any more demands what-so-ever from the dev team. They've set a date already and they have to stick to it. RMT spam or no RMT spam.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

The uptick in spamming was real last Tuesday with 2.55 on Balmung as well. Don't presume sir. It doesn't change anything about the rest of my message though. Square knows already. This thread literally is nothing more than a place to blow of steam. The mere existence of this thread presumes that square is not aware of the problem so as I said above...



We've had over a dozen of these threads already.

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Only a dozen? I get way more RMTs spam messages than that. As long as SE doesn't address this problem properly, they deserve to have constant threads made about this issue sorry to say. No matter what you say you're not going to get me to give up on this. A lot of other people disagree with you as well, hence all the signatures I have here.

Also, can you honestly say you get spammed every single minute on average on the Balmung server? 24/7? With shouts in every city? That's the situation on Zalera atm. And no, that's not acceptable at all, I'm sorry. This is not something for us, the players, to just shut up and take like good little boys and girls.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Only a dozen? I get way more RMTs spam messages than that. As long as SE doesn't address this problem properly, they deserve to have constant threads made about this issue sorry to say. No matter what you say you're not going to get me to give up on this. A lot of other people disagree with you as well, hence all the signatures I have here.

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A dozen of these THREADS. Not a dozen spam messages. Slow down and read my message properly before just popping off please.

You're seriously preaching to the choir here by telling Square what they already know. Nothing big will change till the expansion I guarantee you that. You're all welcome to waste your time in threads like these if that makes you feel better though. I'm sure each little edit to add a name to your list makes you think it matters. That somehow it will add developers to the team with free time to fix it. We'll see I guess. I'm wouldn't hedge my bets on it though.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

A dozen of these THREADS. Not a dozen spam messages. Slow down and read my message properly before just popping off please.

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I am reading your message, and I'm perfectly calm fyi. What I am telling you here, is even if you counted every single reply on every single thread made about RMTs, and then compared it to the amount of spam /tells that have been sent to players even in the last month, you will find that the amount of RMT /tells would outnumber the amount of each individual post about RMTs by like 100 to 1. That was my point. However, I do personally feel as though having a quitter attitude towards something that displeases you accomplishes absolutely nothing. You are essentially telling everyone to just not post anything because SE has their own plan and will stick to it no matter what we do. I assure you there has been at least one occasion where a player or players have suggested something on these forums, later to have it implemented by SE, even if it be something as minor as a cosmetic item(The recent Terra's theme playing on the Magitek mount comes to mind). I will continue to post in the hopes that this thread makes even the slightest of impacts in the fight against RMTs.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I am reading your message, and I'm perfectly calm fyi. What I am telling you here, is even if you counted every single reply on every single thread made about RMTs, and then compared it to the amount of spam /tells that have been sent to players even in the last month, you will find that the amount of RMT /tells would outnumber the amount of each individual post about RMTs by like 100 to 1. That was my point.

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What an elaborate point for so few words before that could be so easily misunderstood. I'm sure that's exactly what I was supposed to understand originally. Not sure what you think it proves but cheers to you. Doesn't contradict a single point I made. Just continues to show me how annoyed you are. More rage I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

However, I do personally feel as though having a quitter attitude towards something that displeases you accomplishes absolutely nothing. You are essentially telling everyone to just not post anything because SE has their own plan and will stick to it no matter what we do.

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False. I'm specifically saying. A) They know already and B) Chill out till they get a chance to do something about it. Beating them over the head repeatedly before they can even do anything serves no purpose. Which is why I say there are already over a dozen threads. I don't feel like you are actually reading what I'm saying. You just see that I don't flat out agree so you want to argue with me. The development process takes weeks or months to for even minor changes sometimes. They are not extremely agile. Expecting quick changes is literally not possible.

Good luck with your "formal petition" though. If it helps you sleep at night though.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

False. I'm specifically saying. A) They know already and B) Chill out till they get a chance to do something about it. Beating them over the head repeatedly before they can even do anything serves no purpose. Which is why I say there are already over a dozen threads. I don't feel like you are actually reading what I'm saying. You just see that I don't flat out agree so you want to argue with me. The development process takes weeks or months to for even minor changes sometimes. They are not extremely agile. Expecting quick changes is literally not possible.

Good luck with your "formal petition"

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Quick changes? They've had over a decade of experience with this in FFXI. FFXIV:ARR has been out for 2 years. What part of this is quick? I gave them two full years before posting anything. I'm posting specifically because they HAVEN'T done anything. Not only has nothing been done, but it's actually gotten worse instead of better. Two years is far longer than the weeks or months needed in the development process. I don't know why you think I'm raging btw. I am completely calm as I said. I haven't called you names or anything like that, I am addressing your arguments directly. I literally have nothing against you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Quick changes? They've had over a decade of experience with this in FFXI. FFXIV:ARR has been out for 2 years. What part of this is quick? I gave them two full years before posting anything. I'm posting specifically because they HAVEN'T done anything. Not only has nothing been done, but it's actually gotten worse instead of better. Two years is far longer than the weeks or months needed in the development process.

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You're acting as if they specifically were working on this specific problem for two years. Good luck with that argument. I'm not talking about the last two years. I'm talking about from the moment you made this thread and when it could possibly be acted upon right now. You can't stay silent for two years and then act like they've done you wrong the whole time. Come on man. You said what you wanted to say. Let them act. Posting over and over and even trying to convince other people won't get it changed quicker. Convincing me that they should drop everything now and do it won't change anything. They will do it when they can because their completing an expansion. If you think anything is more important to them right now than meeting that deadline then you clearly have no comprehension of what software development is like.

You need to just walk away and let it happen now.