Dear All Bards,

Singin is for sissy bois and dem rednec injuns while they be chasin you dawn tryin to aim dat poor excuse of a bow an errah` at ur asscheeck. Bards howevah be usin them multiple metal stringed compound canons and they dun mess around.

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Originally Posted by Caoihmin

I completely understand that this is an enemy debuff, but I believe it's a stretch to propose, when all other songs affect only other party members and even though it is not specifically stated as such, that this one song benefits the whole alliance. Is it possible that this enemy debuff is not universal but serves to provide a dmg buff to only your party? I am assuming this, but others are assuming the "universal" debuff as well.

Again, if someone can provide valid documentation that proves me wrong other than their interpretation of how Foe's mechanics work, I will stand corrected.

And what difference does it make if it's a hunt? You quote "party members" here but it's the same dynamic as in a raid. If Foe's affects only the enemy then all should benefit outside of your hunt party, according to your proposition.

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Debuffs are universal, period. That would be like fighting two "Mob As" that both have an ability that gives vulnerability up, but that vulnerability only applies to attacks by them. Foe's Requiem is a universal debuff that affects the mob's elemental resistances period. If it only affected the resistances versus your party, then if we had 3 parties each with a bard singing Requiem, we would see 3 different Foe debuffs on the mob, and I will tell you straight from personal experience, only one Foe's will register and it affects ALL elemental damage the mob takes regardless of source. (Been in raids multiple times where different parties had Foe's up because I always have Foe's up with mages about, and when mine wears off but the debuff never goes away, obviously somebody else also has it up somewhere in the raid.)

All other songs, like someone else pointed out, specifically state they are party buffs, not alliance buffs. That's the key difference that people are trying to make apparent to you. One type is a universal, un-qualified debuff, while the others are qualified buffs.

IMO songs are there to be used situation dependent. They're there to be used, not with-held because the bard is either lazy, or doesn't like the way the fight is going. For better or worse in a battle, we're all doing the best we can to get through it (admittedly some better than others) and the sooner this "i'm a bard who teaches people a lesson" crap stops, the sooner things will be more effective. Just my 2c.

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

Foe's Requiem. Use it.
Battle Voice. Use it.

It makes me die a little bit on the inside whenever I go into WoD/ST/CT and not a single one of the eight bards in the alliance wants to play Foe's. Come on, guys.

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Someone has to tell them that Foe's requiem doesn't reduce their damage 20%... Seriously... Because only 1 of 10 bards I see uses it, most are all the time with their MP full and it really really reaaaaaally HURTS MY EYES...

I think you're asking too much with Battle Voice.

It is true though, there are a ton of mute Bards in WoD.

Please use mage ballad

http://i.imgur.com/iLnbYh5.jpg

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Originally Posted by myahele

Please use mage ballad

http://i.imgur.com/iLnbYh5.jpg

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If...If.... You ask it that way... I... I'll do it... Yes...

Please don't kill me, I'm too young to die

I use Foe's all the time... but why do I practically have to be standing on the enemy for it to affect them? :/ BRD is the 5th class I've leveled so I'm a little hazy on some details and I find myself going "ok, I dodged that aoe, now back to attacking... wait, where the Foe's debuff?" *scoots closer* "nope, not close enough" *inches closer* "dammit" *stands under Uglyenemy's armpit* "ok, now they have the debuff. oh, I'm almost out of mp anyways..." :/ "

I'm gonna guess I'm not the only one with this problem. I've gone to CT raids with other BRDs who do have Foe's up... but none of the enemies have the debuff on them. :/ (and I do have the icons set to show all.)

I've also healed dungeons as WHM and watched the BRD pop Mage's Ballad... nowhere near me, so I don't get the buff. >< (Mind you, even as BLM I love getting Ballad, so I QQ a bit if they use it too far away from me.)

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Originally Posted by Sadana

refers

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Hmm considering T9... you have to stand in the usual range of Lunar Dynamo but if you pop it right prepull your MP will anyway be 0 till the attack comes so you have enough to move out of it... Also barded the derpraids CT- WoD no issues maybe its sth in Final Coil? I know (only on T11 atm) that our bard triggers the tail attack when he needs to pop the TP song (name blackout atm lol). :/

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Originally Posted by Imoen

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Obviously I cannot "force" bards to do anything, but that doesn't mean that simply being lazy for the sake of being lazy should be encouraged. As others have stated prior, too often people don't even actively contribute to the raid and then pass it off as "it's just casual content" or "it's not a big deal." Quite honestly, I don't care if it's casual content. WoD isn't hard by any means, but boy, people sure do make it harder for themselves. And by doing so, they make it harder for me, as well.
I've stated it before; this isn't solo content. Your actions directly impact how the other 23 players play through the raid. If you don't "want" to play well, then do some solo content if you're not in the mood to actively participate. But don't then come into a RAID and get upset when people want you to contribute to a team effort. That's so silly.

The rest of your post is garbled nonsense so yeah.

Eh. If there is a caster in my group, then I will use it.
If I see a caster(obviously a caster- ie, in caster glamour or visible astral magic balls things) in the alliance, I will use it.
If the whm in my group decides to go Cleric>Holy spam, then I will use it.

And, when I do use it, it will most likely be used during the dps check of the fight (ie, Titan's heart/superbombs, ramuh's minions, trash pulls in towers ect)

Other wise, think I'll save it for when whm needs ballad.

Or if a melee ACTUALLY asks for Army's.....because SE still hasnt given me a tp bar...:I

Was leveling my SCH with FC mates in Darkhold a few days ago with a single pugged Bard. It appeared to be their first time in (I don't remember if it actually said someone was running it for the first time at the beginning x.x), but they actually sang Ballad for me without any asking (I'm not in the habit of doing so o_o). <3 I was so happy T^T
+1 more good bard entering the world!

Don't really care if the boss will die 2 seconds faster because of Foe. As a bard I always leave without commendations either way. Songs or no songs - yep, a healer and a tank always get all comms.
FCoB raids are another matter entirely, but in trash content songs literally do not matter.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Don't really care if the boss will die 2 seconds faster because of Foe. As a bard I always leave without commendations either way. Songs or no songs - yep, a healer and a tank always get all comms.
FCoB raids are another matter entirely, but in trash content songs literally do not matter.

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I get commendations as a DPS all the time, might just be a you problem.

Try being social and talking, WHILE singing songs and doing your job properly, that usually does it.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Don't really care if the boss will die 2 seconds faster because of Foe. As a bard I always leave without commendations either way. Songs or no songs - yep, a healer and a tank always get all comms..

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http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/h...psszfe7acu.jpg
*Hugs that particular ST group* 10/10 will derp my songs for them, again

^ Bards do get comms. o_O
I went, I sang my heart out, I talked between pulls and I came out happy because everyone else was happy. Comms are icing on the cake that I appreciate greatly.
Yeah, you're def not going to always get comms even for doing your job to your fullest - but sing, be merry anyway. People pick up on moods when someone is projecting one. Positivity usually meets or brings positivity if people are open enough, and you add a lasting effect that way. Enjoy the class knowing you're doing your damnedest - even if you find you're not acknowledged for it. You know what you did and you know it was awesome shit.
Like Areku said - Friendliness and empathy go a long way when you have a job or skills capable of giving to others - so give and give. 'Do unto others...'
If the healers don't need MP and a freshly raised melee doesn't need TP, Foes is not going to hurt you any... o_Oa

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

Foe's Requiem. Use it.
Battle Voice. Use it.

It makes me die a little bit on the inside whenever I go into WoD/ST/CT and not a single one of the eight bards in the alliance wants to play Foe's. Come on, guys.

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Agreed every time I queue and see bunch of bards on the list I cringe... specially in a reg dungeon and double bard queue... its enough to quit right then and there! >:( that much said on the rare miraculous occasion that they don't suck I get so surprised by it that I am paralyzed on my keyboard from shock and have to take a moment to gather myself and then you can have a pretty smooth run with multi bards... but rare, rare like winning the loto ;)

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Originally Posted by Saseal

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/h...psszfe7acu.jpg
*Hugs that particular ST group* 10/10 will derp my songs for them, again

^ Bards do get comms. o_O

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You just were with a premade team.
I have over 2,800 comms which I've earned as a healer. Always leave with 1-3 even when being silent the whole run.
But the same character, same appearance, same behavior, different job - and I leave without comms.
Talk about job discrimination.
Also singing Foe in 4 man dungeons if not right from the start of boss fight stunlocks you and you miss at least 2 GCDs attacks. Reducing magical resistance by 10% for 30 seconds barely covers damage from your 2 missed attacks.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

You just were with a premade team.
I have over 2,800 comms which I've earned as a healer. Always leave with 1-3 even when being silent the whole run.
But the same character, same appearance, same behavior, different job - and I leave without comms.
Talk about job discrimination.
Also singing Foe in 4 man dungeons if not right from the start of boss fight stunlocks you and you miss at least 2 GCDs attacks. Reducing magical resistance by 10% for 30 seconds barely covers damage from your 2 missed attacks.

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I have earned commendations on the few duties I've done as Bard. They were all random DF groups.It does sound like it's you.

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You just were with a premade team.

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You can't get commends from the members in a premade pt.

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Reducing magical resistance by 10% for 30 seconds barely covers damage from your 2 missed attacks.

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With about 2k mp you sing for one full minute.

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Originally Posted by Irie

You can't get commends from the members in a premade pt.


With about 2k mp you sing for one full minute.

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She meant you were with a pre-made team, not you were in a pre-made team.


I often in a 3 person premade team, and usually we have 1 dps from DF, and that person will get all 3 commendations.

I know when as dps I get 3 commendations, and did not something special as DPS, I probably was with a 3 person pre-made team.

I give my commendation to the person who acted the nicest / most helpful in group, not who was the best.

Anyway as for topic, when I play my bard, I usually use foe when I see a mage class.
But there are times when I forget, especially when I didn't play bard for a long time.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

You just were with a premade team.
I have over 2,800 comms which I've earned as a healer. Always leave with 1-3 even when being silent the whole run.
But the same character, same appearance, same behavior, different job - and I leave without comms.
Talk about job discrimination.
Also singing Foe in 4 man dungeons if not right from the start of boss fight stunlocks you and you miss at least 2 GCDs attacks. Reducing magical resistance by 10% for 30 seconds barely covers damage from your 2 missed attacks.

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Syrcus tower (says so right in the chat box if you don't believe me) and no one seemed to know each other. That was not a 4 man dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Neo_bahamut

Agreed every time I queue and see bunch of bards on the list I cringe... specially in a reg dungeon and double bard queue... its enough to quit right then and there! >:( that much said on the rare miraculous occasion that they don't suck I get so surprised by it that I am paralyzed on my keyboard from shock and have to take a moment to gather myself and then you can have a pretty smooth run with multi bards... but rare, rare like winning the loto ;)

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I'll sing for you! :D
I've been in WoD runs like this. Every bard in the universe after that bard tabbard and not a single song was sung those night. Wanted to just line them up, hold my hand out and just walk that line.

It always throws me off when I queue as bard and get another bard in party that also sings. I'm too used to being the only bard out of multiple (a makeup of 2 or so in a raid/trial) to sing anything. Had another in LoTA last night that DID sing - it took me near the end of the first boss to realize we both had Foes going at the same time xD; "*MP runs out* Boooo no more Foes -3- *checks party MPs and notices the other bard had no MP, either* o_o uh.... oops o3o;;;".
After that I checked more closely - sure enough, we kept starting to sing at about the same time. It was disorientating (because I'd habitually keep hitting the button even after I'd realized this, but step-cancel myself), but was great! I got to tag team Foes if/when I noticed their MP was about to go out. Was also good insurance to know if shit hit the ground for the healers, one of the two of us can and do sing - and will have at least a lil mp for ballad.
I always go happy-go-derpy when I see lots of BLMs in a raid. (My Foes, take them! \+O+/ *Buries people in music*)

I'm honest pretty sad with the BRDs in this thread who are defending not using Foes with "I don't have to".

I don't have to heal you. Use a potion. Also no Proshell for you either since it's not required.

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Originally Posted by Saseal

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/h...psszfe7acu.jpg
*Hugs that particular ST group* 10/10 will derp my songs for them, again

^ Bards do get comms. o_O
I went, I sang my heart out

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Haha, I was farming lights yesterday during a T4 window on my BLM. Noticed a BRD playing Foe, "Well I'll be damned, some of them do sing.." I gave my commendation to him in the end. :p

Yesterday went to a ST, I was lagging so I said "well, I'll be damned, BLM life will be"...
And so, 4 BLMs and 1 BRD in the party :|

I thought the DPS wouldnt be so great, but that one BRD sang throughout the whole run and everything was scorched down to ashes...
Comms rained that day on the BRD.

I get more recommendations as a SMN that switches between Garuda and Ifrit frequently than I do as a BRD who actually sings Foes Req, Mages Ballad and Swiftsong.

In the end, don't expect commendations for doing your job unless you're exceptional

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Yesterday went to a ST, I was lagging so I said "well, I'll be damned, BLM life will be"...
And so, 4 BLMs and 1 BRD in the party :|

I thought the DPS wouldnt be so great, but that one BRD sang throughout the whole run and everything was scorched down to ashes...
Comms rained that day on the BRD.

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Same situation that happened to me, yesterday, in ST o_O Four BLMs and then my bard (Nine BLMs total in the raid).
Like someone in the party said, "I love how our ADDs are just melting as soon as they appear" (in ref to Amon's ADDs appearing in our area) - I don't think -anything- knew what hit them. The power of BLMs and Foes = world domination xD

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I'm honest pretty sad with the BRDs in this thread who are defending not using Foes with "I don't have to".

I don't have to heal you. Use a potion. Also no Proshell for you either since it's not required.

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If you are the healer, then you have to heal, it's your job.
Bard's job is to dps, but it's nowhere said you have to do as much damage as possible. Foe is minmaxing damage and not necessary.
If you want to compare not singing to not healing, then no Stoneskin is right comparison because either don't really matter.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

If you are the healer, then you have to heal, it's your job.
Bard's job is to dps, but it's nowhere said you have to do as much damage as possible.
If you want to compare not singing to not healing, then no Stoneskin or no Protect is right comparison because either don't really matter.

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you're a support/DPS hybrid. I suppose it would be clearer if they made a 4th type of role. In other words, you're supposed to be as selfless as a healer, but yet still do enough damage to carry yourself. If you're not helping your team with buffs (your primary job mechanic) then you're being selfish, if you're doing nothing but buffs, you're not exactly carrying yourself.

A very tough class from the looks of it, but seriously I don't think that Bard was ever meant to be a straight up DPS type.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I'm honest pretty sad with the BRDs in this thread who are defending not using Foes with "I don't have to".

I don't have to heal you. Use a potion. Also no Proshell for you either since it's not required.

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Yes you have to heal people as a healer, otherwise you worse then bards that don't sing.

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Originally Posted by mirta000

you're a support/DPS hybrid.

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No, bard is DPS class with some support abilities which are most of the time totally useless and affect nothing (that's the only reason why some players totally ignore them in trash content like Towers).
Just because BLM has Lethargy/Apocatastasys (buff/debuff actions) doesnt make it support/DPS hybrid as well. It's still a full fledged DPS class.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

No, bard is DPS class with some support abilities which are most of the time totally useless and affect nothing (that's the only reason why some players totally ignore them in trash content like Towers).
Just because BLM has Lethargy/Apocatastasys (buff/debuff actions) doesnt make it support/DPS hybrid as well. It's still a full fledged DPS class.

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Comparing songs to Lethargy or Apoc is a really weak comparison. The whole point of being a Bard is singing songs. If someone doesn't want to sing songs then they shouldn't be a Bard. You want to just Pew Pew all day and have a lot less responsibility than be a BLM or something. I say that being a BLM main. I can only influence the battle so much with my "support" abilities but for the most part the way I help the raid is me keeping up DPS and mitigating damage coming at me. Bards on the other hand influence the raid by singing songs that benefit the party, not just themselves.

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Originally Posted by Clarkamite

Comparing songs to Lethargy or Apoc is a really weak comparison. The whole point of being a Bard is singing songs. If someone doesn't want to sing songs then they shouldn't be a Bard. You want to just Pew Pew all day and have a lot less responsibility than be a BLM or something. I say that being a BLM main. I can only influence the battle so much with my "support" abilities but for the most part the way I help the raid is me keeping up DPS and mitigating damage coming at me. Bards on the other hand influence the raid by singing songs that benefit the party, not just themselves.

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It's not about not wanting to sing. It's about songs being very circumstantial. And about demanding bad players who can only scream 'MP! MP!'/'TP! TP!' without having any idea about Shroud or being too lazy to level lancer for Invigorate.

Actually... woe be to the tank that has to fight bad Bards turned Black Mages... I've seen these bad Bards truck through all their attacks and popping their anti-enmity actions almost as soon as their cooldowns were up. Imagine the enmity generation of a Black Mage that did that... But yes, singing songs shouldn't be a constant thing. What good is Foe's in a party that has no DD casters? "But the healers are going to be DDing, too!" I hope not! I hope they're healing, it's kind of what they do. If they CAN DD then great, but I'm not going to sing under the pretense that they will be. Ballad is something I try to be proactive about, singing it on my cue should I see a White Mage low on MP or another Bard singing a song. Paeon if there's more melee DDs than caster DDs. You know, as it's needed. Otherwise, I'm not going to so that when I do need to I have the mp for it.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

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Songs are circumstantial and you shouldn't have to rely on the bard to refill your mana but that is their whole purpose: to provide a respectable DPS while having a lot of utility that benefits the party in more than just them hitting something hard. I can understand not singing Paeon to a certain extent when you don't know a DPS is low on TP but refusing to sing it because you just don't want to defeats the purpose of being a Bard. I can think of plenty of times when the melee DPS in my group have NEEDED a Paeon through no fault of their own. Not to mention is there a downside to singing Foes and increasing your casters DPS in fights? I wish my Bard would sing it in more appropriate places to be honest rather than just singing it randomly and without warning.

I get what you're saying though. We don't bring a Bard so he can make up for DPS not having Invigorate or Healers not knowing what it means to not over heal, we bring him so that he sings his songs in appropriate situations to help ease the clearing of content. It's not necessary for him to. But then again, it's not necessary for me to pull 500+ DPS either, but I still do it.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

What good is Foe's in a party that has no DD casters? "But the healers are going to be DDing, too!" I hope not! I hope they're healing, it's kind of what they do. If they CAN DD then great, but I'm not going to sing under the pretense that they will be.

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In that situation, it would be most beneficial to know ahead of time that your healers are going to be DPS'ing. You could have your Bard put up Foes, have the SCH cast some dots and the WHM do some stuff and then he can just put it back down when their DPS'ing is done.

Having our Bard put up Foes right before the Hallowed Akh Morn or Flatten before our SCH puts up his dots adds a huge amount. More than you would initially think. Not to mention he's boosting my numbers there too.

In the end all that matters is it's our subscription money and we can play however we want if we consider it more fun. We don't need people to tell us how to play 'correctly' in their opinion.
Save 'Use it.' demands for your friends or something. I never tell healers to help with DPS if they are just standing there throwing one Cure every 15 seconds. It's their gameplay choice even if they can contribute more. Don't see how it should be any different for other jobs.

Alright, so it seems a few people don't understand the point I was trying to make I'll explain.

To say you don't want to sing songs because it is not necessary is a weak defence. The point I was trying to make when I said "I won't heal you" is that it is not required for a WHM/SCH to heal a BRD in CT. I have never been in any run in any CT raid where a BRD won the fight for us. A BRD is not required to clear the raid. A BRD being dead or injured during a raid does make it unbeatable. It will be slower if you are down a DPS but it makes the healer's job easier and may even allow them to DPS more. So if you are not going to be a team player then why should you be healed by the team? If you want to ignore supporting your team so you can have more DPS then maybe others should do the same to you. (I would never condone or support this I'm just trying to make a point)

I also have a question. Do the Bards who don't use songs use Straight Shot? If so then that is pretty hypocritical. Straight Shot isn't required. And yes, I know it does damage, but you are using it to increase your own DPS.

The last thing I want to talk about it people saying the game never says BRDs are DPS/support. The BRD quest line literally says that the whole point to being a BRD is that they are able to bolster their allies. That is whole whole reason your character even trains to be a BRD. I'd leave quotes but I'm too lazy at the moment.

I feel people are arguing the difference between decent and good.

All you can do is offer advice. The choices they make ultimately define them.
/Shrug

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Yes you have to heal people as a healer, otherwise you worse then bards that don't sing.

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Well I don't think one is worst then the other a healer that solely focus on tank and one dps not the bard is not a good healer granted but the dungeon will still end successfully so the point is valid if the bard say we don't have to do it to clear well you don't have to live to clear either BOTH methods are foolish as it will take longer to get anything done and wont be a fun run :( ppl should strive to play the class they are with as designed at the very least if all the brd wants to do its wreck shit then they should have played mnk or blm o.O