FFXIV: Cheat 2 Win - The New Norm?

I'd apologize on behalf of Balmung for the server seeming to support bots, but seeing as my views are usually not in line with the average Balmung player's, I can't.

So I'll just say down with bots!

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

Everyone is able to afford the Mats with no Work at all nor a Gil Sink, this results in tons of Crafted Items and thus flooding the Marketboard with tons of People undercutting each other.
If Stuff is Cheap to get beforehand, People will buy tons and flood the Marketboard, not only for the Gathering Part.

No hating Bots? Oh well, this is just wrong... on so many levels.

That's like a confirmation that you approve what they're doing, nice view!

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I don't craft, I don't gather, so I'm not losing any money.

Market board getting flooded with materials? Cool, I can buy stuffs cheaper.

I didn't approve them. I'm neutral, as long as they don't cause any issue to me.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I didn't approve them. I'm neutral, as long as they don't cause any issue to me.

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This is still wrong as the Community should work against that kind of Players. If everyone would have that in their mind, FFXIV would be infested by Bots and drive Legit Players away.

If you do not care at all, they don't either and it's an approval for them to continue...

No Point to discuss this, Cheaters are Cheaters and those who use Programs that automate their Characters in any Way should be banned for good.

This is no Singleplayer Game, while it might not hurt your Gameplay in any Way, it does for others!

At the end of the day, there is NOTHING that can be done about bots that won't negatively impact us who play the game legitimately. You can censor them and limit them, but they will find a way around that, while we are also censored and limited. Think about it like the recent pvp chat changes, that was a move the negatively affected everyone to persecute a few.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

LM-17, FFXI, your move.

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Forgive my ignorance, but could somebody explain to me what LM-17 was? I never played XI.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

LM-17, FFXI, your move.

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Lol yeah this so much. Its not like they mass banned 1000 of accounts from people who exploided the savage glitch back with XI

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I've made quite a bit of money gathering and bots don't seem to be an issue. I suppose if you're trying to sell crystals and shards. At least that is the case on Siren. Gathering and selling make up a nice chuck of my dailies. Always something to do in this game. I'm curious what mats you're referring to that bots seem to be having an impact on.

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We have (a) bot(s) in full Ironworks on Ultros. So any and all end game mats have been flooded - aethersands and folklore node mats. The one area not covered is anything to do with fishing. Full stacks of aethersands for cheap and folklore mats that have been pushed down to a couple hundred gil.

This has been said before but why is it always Balmung.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

This is still wrong as the Community should work against that kind of Players. If everyone would have that in their mind, FFXIV would be infested by Bots and drive Legit Players away.

If you do not care at all, they don't either and it's an approval for them to continue...

No Point to discuss this, Cheaters are Cheaters and those who use Programs that automate their Characters in any Way should be banned for good.

This is no Singleplayer Game, while it might not hurt your Gameplay in any Way, it does for others!

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Why should I care about bots hurting greedy merchants?

crafters and gatherers hate bots? that's their problem. fight your own war. don't put the burden on everyone.

I don't even like merchants to begin with. If this game implements free PvP I'll Trick Attack them and take their lunch money. :D

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Originally Posted by Evangela

That's actually 10+ bots there. Their legs are under the ground.

How can they make new characters on Balmung anyway?

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Because they're always running automated programs trying to create characters.

When the servers come back up from maintenance you'll see a fresh batch of gibberish rmt bots who managed to swarm in and mass create their bots.

They eventually get banned and due to the restrictions you shouldn't see more gibberish farm bots until the next maintenance.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Why should I care about bots hurting greedy merchants?

crafters and gatherers hate bots? that's their problem. fight your own war. don't put the burden on everyone.

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A War you say, really? It is "obvious" who looses in the end, literally us Players who have farmed mass amounts of Blue Scrips for all Nine Folklore Books while others do it automated when they Sleep.
Again this is about Unfair Advantages over Players who still do or have grinded to the Point, where they finally could make the Marketboard lucrative in the end.

It is a spit in the Face for anyone who has grinded 44.550 Blue Scrips just to get spitted again getting told "Ha, that took you so long? I, the Bot, did this in a few Days and now gonna farm Nodes for Months".

You honestly seem not to known what effects Real Player Bots have in the end once they have the Free Pass to Bot, the Marketboard won't be even shiny for you anymore aswell.
Given the Fact it also does not affect Crafting/Gathering in the end, it does affect Player Housing aswell, some Bots do in Fact own Houses which they sell for a ton of Gil, eh?

In the End you still don't care, obvious why.

That you don't get the Fact that People use Illegal Programs not being allowed officially is one thing, on the other Side when a RMT Bot starts to Whisper you it's the End of the World.
Surprisingly once the Real Player Bots would interact with you in any Way suddenly you would change that mind.

Great Logic, totally not so.

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Speaking about Balmung, Players putting in there over 200-300 Stacks of Seaborne Aethersand, ya, it doesn't surprise me if Non Gatherers/Crafters find this great or amazing. <-- {Irony}
As for the Shards/Crystals and Clusters... I'm not surprised if Water Clusters are about 100-300 Gil a pop while they're mostly on most Servers for around 800 - 1.200 Gil a pop.

But in the end, that's Balmung's fault literally, the Server is exploding and yet People flood in like there is no tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

But in the end, that's Balmung's fault literally, the Server is exploding and yet People flood in like there is no tomorrow.

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How is Balmung exploding? Things seem relatively fine when I log in. No fires or anything.

That said, I do support banning bots. Maybe SE just needs to add one of those Captcha measures to character creation. Annoying for anyone making a new character, but the game isn't exactly alt friendly, so that seems like one of the least player-impacting Anti-Bot measures that could be taken. Not that it'd help too much, but still.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

How is Balmung exploding? Things seem relatively fine when I log in. No fires or anything.

That said, I do support banning bots. Maybe SE just needs to add one of those Captcha measures to character creation. Annoying for anyone making a new character, but the game isn't exactly alt friendly, so that seems like one of the least player-impacting Anti-Bot measures that could be taken. Not that it'd help too much, but still.

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Exploding not in terms of trouble Queue while Logging in, tho due of the amount of Players that login/logoff Daily, which is extremely huge, if not even bigger than Gilgamesh.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

Exploding not in terms of trouble Queue while Logging in, tho due of the amount of Players that login/logoff Daily, which is extremely huge, if not even bigger than Gilgamesh.

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Ah, right. That's one of those circles though.

Join the game. Want to play with your friends. They're on Balmung. Move to Balmung.
Get friends to join the game. They want to play with you. They come to Balmung.
Their friends join the game, and want to play with them, so they come to Balmung.

Didn't read the whole topic yet but just wanted to point out about the radar app.

Yes it may only work as far as you can see yourself without the app however it also sends you alerts to anyone else using it.

So if your in the shroud somewhere and someone else with the radar finds a hunt in another zone, you will still get a notification about that hunt.

So for those who say it doesn't give an advantage its straight up bs.

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Originally Posted by aesteval

We have (a) bot(s) in full Ironworks on Ultros. So any and all end game mats have been flooded - aethersands and folklore node mats. The one area not covered is anything to do with fishing. Full stacks of aethersands for cheap and folklore mats that have been pushed down to a couple hundred gil.

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That's pretty incredible if they're doing Folklore mats. It's what I sell pimarily and we have a small population at the moment doing that although the market can be pretty competitive.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

Speaking about Balmung, Players putting in there over 200-300 Stacks of Seaborne Aethersand, ya, it doesn't surprise me if Non Gatherers/Crafters find this great or amazing. <-- {Irony}
As for the Shards/Crystals and Clusters... I'm not surprised if Water Clusters are about 100-300 Gil a pop while they're mostly on most Servers for around 800 - 1.200 Gil a pop.

But in the end, that's Balmung's fault literally, the Server is exploding and yet People flood in like there is no tomorrow.

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What's the problem? Cheaper things on the market board = better.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

What's the problem? Cheaper things on the market board = better.

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Because you simply don't get it that it's actually hurting.
Like I said, just because you do not Gather or Crafter, doesn't mean it does not hurt others at all.

If you can buy stacks of Ores being cheap, so can do others that results into bazillions of Crafts making them even less valued.
I honestly don't Gather Stuff that are being farmed by some Bots, as it is pointless mainly because they drive the Prices even more down.

Materials / Gathered Stuff becomes pointless to an Point where one questions themself if Gathering has even a Reason afterall if Stuff becomes literally almost Vendor Trash.

So hard to understand? Given the Fact, if the Economy of Balmung would apply on my Server I'd better not Gather/Craft at all as it is totally pointless...

Nevermind, I leave this, I think you don't know that we are talking about Gathering Bots and not about People that do not have Gathering/Crafting Classes leveled.
Get it, your Argumentations are useless as they do not contribute to the Thread.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

Because you simply don't get it that it's actually hurting.
Like I said, just because you do not Gather or Crafter, doesn't mean it does not hurt others at all.

If you can buy stacks of Ores being cheap, so can do others that results into bazillions of Crafts making them even less valued.

So hard to understand?

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So what if crafted items are cheap? It's a good thing for us DoW/M.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

So what if crafted items are cheap? It's a good thing for us DoW/M.

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You still don't get it. I qoute... :

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I think you don't know that we are talking about Gathering Bots and not about People that do not have Gathering/Crafting Classes leveled.

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Pointless to discuss this with you. I just leave it at that and you can support the Bots by buying their Items as it seems.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

So what if crafted items are cheap? It's a good thing for us DoW/M.

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Indeed, and the market will fluctuate too. If there is over supply in a particular line of goods, prices drop (basic supply/demand stuff). Then many crafters will move to more profitable things, reducing the supply. If the demand remains steady and supply drops then prices will rise. It always bothers me when people want to somehow 'fix' the market board because they think things are too cheap.

If all bots were permanently removed from the game tomorrow (I can wish can't I?), prices of the commodity goods that the bots gathered/crafted would begin to rise as the oversupply of these things ended. Then it would become more profitable for gatherers to actually gather again, and more players would therefore do that, and more supply would allow the prices to settle down a bit. The same is true of crafters working the kinds of craft items that Bots currently flood the market with. Eventually the game would reach a new equilibrium for both crafting and gathering, and prices would stabilize. They might be higher for somethings and lower for others, but at the end of the day, it would benefit players more since there would be more player/player economic action without the artificial market deflation caused by bots.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

If all bots were permanently removed from the game tomorrow (I can wish can't I?), prices of the commodity goods that the bots gathered/crafted would begin to rise as the oversupply of these things ended. Then it would become more profitable for gatherers to actually gather again, and more players would therefore do that, and more supply would allow the prices to settle down a bit. The same is true of crafters working the kinds of craft items that Bots currently flood the market with. Eventually the game would reach a new equilibrium for both crafting and gathering, and prices would stabilize. They might be higher for somethings and lower for others, but at the end of the day, it would benefit players more since there would be more player/player economic action without the artificial market deflation caused by bots.

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https://i.imgflip.com/m7ibq.jpg

Was that so hard to understand? But then I can't influence the minds of People that Support Bots in the end...

I'll never support bots, but I do understand what the person is saying about how cheaper things are better for DoM/DoW players. Rather than support bots, I would sooner support a system in place to avoid price-gouging and crafter circles creating a monopoly and jacking prices way up because they would be no alternative for players.

To put it a different way, I remember when the Eikon stuff came out, I didn't buy a single piece. 2million Gil for a Non-HQ piece of the set? No thank you. Several patches later its sold for about 200K or lower. I buy the set for less than a million.

Who does this benefit?

Not me. Tome gear is ilvls ahead of Eikon now. Its just Glamour.
Not the crafter. They paid/farmed for mats worth millions of gil at the time and are selling at a monumental loss.

Now if the prices had been more reasonable back when it was new, I might have gone for it. And of course, 'Reasonable Prices,' is subjective. There are players out there with enough gil to buy entire housing wards. Then there is the 99% of players who don't gave millions of gil on hand to throw at whatever the latest crafted set is.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Indeed, and the market will fluctuate too. If there is over supply in a particular line of goods, prices drop (basic supply/demand stuff). Then many crafters will move to more profitable things, reducing the supply. If the demand remains steady and supply drops then prices will rise. It always bothers me when people want to somehow 'fix' the market board because they think things are too cheap.

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Except they will never stop crafting. That's why they're still doing it now.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

To put it a different way, I remember when the Eikon stuff came out, I didn't buy a single piece. 2million Gil for a Non-HQ piece of the set? No thank you. Several patches later its sold for about 200K or lower. I buy the set for less than a million.

Who does this benefit?

Not me. Tome gear is ilvls ahead of Eikon now. Its just Glamour.
Not the crafter. They paid/farmed for mats worth millions of gil at the time and are selling at a monumental loss.

Now if the prices had been more reasonable back when it was new, I might have gone for it. And of course, 'Reasonable Prices,' is subjective. There are players out there with enough gil to buy entire housing wards. Then there is the 99% of players who don't gave millions of gil on hand to throw at whatever the latest crafted set is.

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I remember all of these. And they were trying to make millions of gil selling relic mats as well.

Now I suppose to feel sorry for the crafters because they're making less money because of the gatherer bots? Hell no.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Except they will never stop crafting. That's why they're still doing it now.

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I'm certain that is true of some. But for most players with a more middle of the road approach, they will craft or gather when it is worth their time to do so. Removing bots from the game would bring more of those players back into the game of crafting and gathering (giving them more reason to stay and play). If more gatherers and crafters are engaged, ultimately prices will settle down at a reasonable level as determined by market factors of supply and demand.

Remember, things can only be sold for what the market will bear. If bots were successfully removed from the game RMT would essentially be over and so players who want to buy something would need to earn their gil in game. Their desire for the item would determine what they will pay. Prices of such goods will reflect that value as well as the degree to which more than one crafter has entered the markete increasing supply.

If there were no Bots and RMT, market boards in this game would be a pretty good demonstration of the laws of supply and demand, and the impact of customer desire and social factors such as 'fashion' trends.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Now if the prices had been more reasonable back when it was new, I might have gone for it. And of course, 'Reasonable Prices,' is subjective. There are players out there with enough gil to buy entire housing wards. Then there is the 99% of players who don't gave millions of gil on hand to throw at whatever the latest crafted set is.

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Price fixing doesn't help and ultimately harms the market, and all who participate in it. The truth is that the Eikon gear will only sell at a price someone is willing to pay, over time (just as happened with the thavnarian bustier and other once rare glamour gear) supply increases and prices drop. It doesn't matter if some small clique of crafters dominate initially, sooner or later they will have to drop their prices so they can sell the things. As other crafters come into the market with the same items, and the supply of the materials needed for the craft similalry increases, the price will fall.

External price fixing ultimately kills the market it is involved with, crafters of difficult or rare items will not bother crafting items if the return on the investment of time and gil on materials is not sufficient. And because of the price fixing, very few crafters will ever bother to try to participate in selling price fixed items.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

https://i.imgflip.com/m7ibq.jpg

Was that so hard to understand? But then I can't influence the minds of People that Support Bots in the end...

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Actually yes, I've read it 3 times and yet I still don't get why it would also be profitable for those that don't craft ^^" (honestly, not trying to troll or anything)
Considering I don't gather / craft maybe I just don't have the "logic gatherer / crafter mind" ^^"

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I'll never support bots, but I do understand what the person is saying about how cheaper things are better for DoM/DoW players. Rather than support bots, I would sooner support a system in place to avoid price-gouging and crafter circles creating a monopoly and jacking prices way up because they would be no alternative for players.

To put it a different way, I remember when the Eikon stuff came out, I didn't buy a single piece. 2million Gil for a Non-HQ piece of the set? No thank you. Several patches later its sold for about 200K or lower. I buy the set for less than a million.

Who does this benefit?

Not me. Tome gear is ilvls ahead of Eikon now. Its just Glamour.
Not the crafter. They paid/farmed for mats worth millions of gil at the time and are selling at a monumental loss.

Now if the prices had been more reasonable back when it was new, I might have gone for it. And of course, 'Reasonable Prices,' is subjective. There are players out there with enough gil to buy entire housing wards. Then there is the 99% of players who don't gave millions of gil on hand to throw at whatever the latest crafted set is.

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^ What he said

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Originally Posted by Celef

Actually yes, I've read it 3 times and yet I still don't get why it would also be profitable for those that don't craft ^^" (honestly, not trying to troll or anything)
Considering I don't gather / craft maybe I just don't have the "logic gatherer / crafter mind" ^^"

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Because, for many of the more highly desired glamours, there are materials that can only be acquired by DoM/DoW players. Those items also sell on the MB, and with no bots to flood the markets with those things, DoW and DoM players would be able to sell them for more gil. So you get a virtuous cycle of DoW/DoM wanting glamours and buying them, crafters make the items using materials gatherers sell on the MB after spending time gathering them, as well as using the materials they have purchased from the DoW/DoM players.

So ultimately Crafters pay gatherers and DoM/DoW players for materials resulting in gatherers and DoM/DoW players gathering or fighting to obtain materials and sell them on to the crafters. Everyone buys glamor items paying the crafters who made them. And the cycle continues with gil circulating from player to player through crafter to gatherer/DoW/DoM, then back to crafter and on to gatherer/DoM/DoW, an then back to the crafters....etc...

You asked how this benefits players other than crafters, right there is the reason, materials do not generally appear out of thin air, they must be acquired. I've sold 2 Kingly Whiskers before, and netted about 5 million gil each for them. Seems like I profited from the extremely rare item used to make an extremely rare glamour weapon that someone else purchsed from the crafter who purchased the whiskers from me.

Without bots to deflate the market, gatherers and DoM/DoW players would all benefit from the improved market health - their income from market sales would increase. With more gil circulating between players, you have the gill you need to buy the expensive glamour you want, so the price of the items relative to the gil available may actually drop - in a relative sense.

For example, if you want something that costs 1 million gil and you have hundred thousand, that thing is completely out of reach and feels very expensive. But, say it costs 2 million, and because of the lucrative sale of dungeon materials you have 500,000 gil. Even though the price of the item doubled, you are now much closer to being able to buy the item, it is in effect relatively cheaper than before, even though numerically it is more expensive.

Of course that all get's into the value of money and perceived value of good being purchased, which is a long discussion not suited to a forum such as this.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Price fixing doesn't help and ultimately harms the market, and all who participate in it. The truth is that the Eikon gear will only sell at a price someone is willing to pay, over time (just as happened with the thavnarian bustier and other once rare glamour gear) supply increases and prices drop. It doesn't matter if some small clique of crafters dominate initially, sooner or later they will have to drop their prices so they can sell the things. As other crafters come into the market with the same items, and the supply of the materials needed for the craft similalry increases, the price will fall.

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Yes, and while the weeks/months pass of the MB full of Crafted sets priced at 10million gil for a non-HQ piece, players will run dungeons and buy tomestone gear. The longer the wait, the more de-valued the crafted set becomes, particularly as Tomestone gear can be upgraded beyond what Crafted Gear is.

I don't believe in price fixing. I believe in some automated system wherein prices get dropped to a, "Reasonable," level within a short period of time. The higher the price, the faster it goes down. So when you've got that new crafted non-HQ belt at 10 million gil, by the end of day 1, it drops to 9 million. By the end of week 1, down to 3 million. Stops dropping at about 10% of the original listed priced. At any time buyers can, of course, take the item off the market board and put it up again at the original price, but hopefully they'll realize after the umpteenth time of putting that non-HQ belt up for 10 million gil that no one wants to pay that much.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I don't believe in price fixing. I believe in some automated system wherein prices get dropped to a, "Reasonable," level within a short period of time.

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Well, such an automated system does seem to exist, but only on JP servers. I quite vividly remember the Anima mats for the 210 step - 200k+ a piece for months even on a highly populated server like Balmung that has little RMT (500k+ on other NA/EU servers), 50k a piece day one on several japanese servers.

I had a good laugh and never supported crafters nor gatherers since.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I don't believe in price fixing. I believe in some automated system wherein prices get dropped to a, "Reasonable," level within a short period of time. The higher the price, the faster it goes down.

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How is that not price fixing? It's even worse than that since anyone putting a high ticket item on the market sees the price they selected to sell at being involuntarily decreased. That's a terrible way to do things and is absolutely price fixing. I can't see many crafters who paid for the rare mats to make something bothering to list the crafted item if they know that in the space of a few hours he system will drop it below profitability.

Remember the items on the MB are put there by players, not the game itself, yet you want the game to treat those items in a similar way to the decreasing price of housing plots.

Oh, and let me just add, I am by *no* means a rich crafter, non of my crafting jobs are even past level 52, nor my gatherers. So, I'm not arguing from the point of view of being filthy rich and wanting it to stay that way. The way I see it, if we could do away with bots permanently, the entire market would be healthier, and that would in the long term benefit me as a player. Price fixing on the other hand would really not help me at all.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

How is that not price fixing? It's even worse than that since anyone putting a high ticket item on the market sees the price they selected to sell at being involuntarily decreased. That's a terrible way to do things and is absolutely price fixing. I can't see many crafters who paid for the rare mats to make something bothering to list the crafted item if they know that in the space of a few hours he system will drop it below profitability.

Remember the items on the MB are put there by players, not the game itself, yet you want the game to treat those items in a similar way to the decreasing price of housing plots.

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Yes, I do. If Crafters dislike it so much they can always sell their wares in ways other than the MB such as actually talking to players. This creates the opportunity to negotiate, to bargain, to barter. Right now, given that retainers sell your items for you on the MB, there isn't a way to contact a Crafter to offer a different price.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Yes, I do. If Crafters dislike it so much they can always sell their wares in ways other than the MB such as actually talking to players. This creates the opportunity to negotiate, to bargain, to barter. Right now, given that retainers sell your items for you on the MB, there isn't a way to contact a Crafter to offer a different price.

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I think it would be better to create a two way marketboard like some games have. Where people can put up buy orders and sell orders. That's a stretch though since it's likely to bring on the usual "limitations" arguments and such.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Yes, I do. If Crafters dislike it so much they can always sell their wares in ways other than the MB such as actually talking to players. This creates the opportunity to negotiate, to bargain, to barter. Right now, given that retainers sell your items for you on the MB, there isn't a way to contact a Crafter to offer a different price.

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So, essentially shut the market board down and make crafters sell by shouting or PF? I don't see that as a practical solution to what is less of an actual problem, and more of an annoyance. I mean I agree about the cost of things, it took me months to get Kos the Thav Bustier because on my server their price didn't drop to anything reasonable until something like 6 months after they were in-game. Then SE crashed the market by giving them out like candy in PoTD... but that's another issue entirely. However, direct manipulation of the market board as you describe, or basically killing it is not the answer - IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

So, essentially shut the market board down and make crafters sell by shouting or PF? I don't see that as a practical solution to what is less of an actual problem, and more of an annoyance. I mean I agree about the cost of things, it took me months to get Kos the Thav Bustier because on my server their price didn't drop to anything reasonable until something like 6 months after they were in-game. Then SE crashed the market by giving them out like candy in PoTD... but that's another issue entirely. However, direct manipulation of the market board as you describe, or basically killing it is not the answer - IMHO.

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I don't know. I think a depreciation of value based on time makes absolutely perfect sense. In life, any goods that stay on a shelf and don't sell will get marked down, or otherwise completely taken off the market.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I don't know. I think a depreciation of value based on time makes absolutely perfect sense. In life, any goods that stay on a shelf and don't sell will get marked down, or otherwise completely taken off the market.

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That already happens on the MB. When items don't move, most sellers will discount them. I know I do. You're describing a process that sellers themselves undertake, to reduce prices to move old goods, that's not an automated thing in stores IRL, it's a management decision made by the sellers of the goods.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That already happens on the MB. When items don't move, most sellers will discount them. I know I do. You're describing a process that sellers themselves undertake, to reduce prices to move old goods, that's not an automated thing in stores IRL, it's a management decision made by the sellers of the goods.

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Or a decision made by corporate. Or in the case of perishable goods, they're removed by law. Expiration Dates and all.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Or a decision made by corporate. Or in the case of perishable goods, they're removed by law. Expiration Dates and all.

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Eikon gear is not perishable, and although my wife might qualify as the corporate decision maker, SE does not. :)

I just don't think that there is a solution to this problem other than artificially rigging the market to curtail the free market - in the context of this game and game economy.

Every game has its pool of undesirables, but when it comes down to it Devs have to set priorities. To that extent actions such as strictly enforcing their ToS/EULA does not happen as the amount of 'man power' needed to police the game would result in higher subs, likely 2-3x the current. There are many limitations with software that spans over multiple platforms and allows players to interact among players with other platforms that software that are restricted to a single platform do not have.

How much freedom are people/players willing to give up for the sake of safety and security?

Speaking on a more philosophical area: the concept of a true lasting peace is impossible much like happiness, what is peaceful to one could be death threats to another, what makes one happy makes another sad -- This is the problem with intelligent life forms, we all perceive things differently, while some are close enough to each other to reach common ground, no one is the same like snowflakes.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Now if the prices had been more reasonable back when it was new, I might have gone for it. And of course, 'Reasonable Prices,' is subjective. There are players out there with enough gil to buy entire housing wards. Then there is the 99% of players who don't gave millions of gil on hand to throw at whatever the latest crafted set is.

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The best way to fix it is to have more players participating to compete with each other (as opposed to bots.) If I remember correctly: the 220 gear was released right when the time gated grind was being eased up on for crafting and gathering (ie: it was the first set of new gear post favour farming?) Any players who were a little late to endgame crafting and gathering didn't have a good catch up mechanism at that point and that would have limited the number of players participating. Granted there's also the matter of the first to market always tends to go for a high price because it'll end up being undercut anyway.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Now I suppose to feel sorry for the crafters because they're making less money because of the gatherer bots? Hell no.

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Gatherer bots don't hurt crafters, gatherer bots hurt gatherers. People who are as self centered as you and focus solely on crafting are as happy to see bots gathering as much as you are.