Is anyone else really disappointed with the nerfs coming in 2.2?

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

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Amen! I can't disagree at all. Same way I feel about players who are quick to judge.

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Originally Posted by Roris

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I honestly don't see why it's such a big issue.

Your meaning of "rewarding" isn't shared. Many people are having to waste time and invest a headaches worth of effort just to leave it up to chance and not skill when downing content. That is not "rewarding" when they have to look forward to that same exact experience the next week. Not everyone has the privileged and advantage those that are downing content have. These buffs are not gonna magically remove 1 hit kill mechanics either. All it's doing is making it slightly less stressful for those that have to put up with the unskilled and ill prepared. Which isn't really "rewarding".

I don't know why the instances are been nerf when they will already get a "nerf" via overgear with uncap myth and the new gear.

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

Blocking would be like in XI where they had a literally unbeatable boss.

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which boss is this? I hope you are not referring to Absolute Virtue because if you are I hate to burst your bubble here but he was beaten.

there are no unbeatable bosses in XI, never were. it was always about strategy and job setups with those bosses.

Is there anything in the game AT ALL that so called "hardcore" players are happy about?

Here is a brief lists of complaints on the forums:

-Easy content is lame.
-Hard content is lame.
-Getting more retainers is lame.
-Having less retainers is lame.
-Vanity is lame.
-Not being able to look like what you want is lame.
-Being lame is lame.

/explosion

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I hope you are not referring to Absolute Virtue because if you are I hate to burst your bubble here but he was beaten.

there are no unbeatable bosses in XI, never were. it was always about strategy with those bosses.

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For a period of time, Absolute Virtue was unbeatable after all the "exploits" were smothered in patches up until they got some nasty press about a particular Pandemonium Warden battle that went on 18 hours straight, after which they significantly reduced the power of both monsters.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

which boss is this? I hope you are not referring to Absolute Virtue because if you are I hate to burst your bubble here but he was beaten.

there are no unbeatable bosses in XI, never were. it was always about strategy with those bosses.

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I hate to break it to you but Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden were unbeatable bosses in XI- were being the key phrase. They eventually got patched to be less stupid and then they raised level cap... blah blah blah...

Oh, a quick refresher for AV and PW!
Absolute Virtue has been defeated pre-patch but mostly by use of glitches and the like.
Pandemonium Warden, if you recall made headlines by making players physically ill after they have been going at it for 18 hours.

Yeah... so glad they don't pull that crap in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

I hate to break it to you but Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden were unbeatable bosses in XI- were being the key phrase.

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I dont believe they were unbeatable, I believe the players didn't find the strategy and correct job setups to beat them. SE came forth and stated several times that both of them were beatable and this was their answer to the constant cry for challenges the hardcore players kept begging for

making bosses so difficult that they make people ill though is far too extreme. I'm very glad they haven't pulled anything like that in XIV, but don't be terribly surprised if they do, this is SE afterall

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

making bosses so difficult that they make people ill though is far too extreme.

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Players fault, not game. Could of been any game, didn't people die from playing WoW? According to Wiki Answer: 3.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Players fault, not game. Could of been any game, didn't people die from playing WoW? According to Wiki Answer: 3.

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I thought that happened with Ultima Online as well. I could be wrong on that

I'm on the fence on all of this. I have downed all the content in game already.

I kinda see the OP's argument on keeping difficulty the same while also understanding the need to open up the content to newer players.

Their is a sense of accomplishment that comes with downing un-nerfed content but on the same token, the persons who have not done it, why would they care otherwise? They have not done the content anyway so to them everything would be new.

Think about it this way, when OoBG had first T5 video, people didn't rise to the challenge to just grind out all the same the way they did. Nope, majority of people watched their video and guess what, many people now mimic their T5 ritual while there's several other methods.

I guess what im trying to say is, pre-nerfed content is only an issue for the people who feel accomplishment for tackling said pre-nerfed content with no assistance, otherwise no one should watch videos of successful attempts because in essence that would also be making the game easier.

Do I think some extremes should remain unchanged? Yes, but with some restraint.

I personally think Titan Extreme is one of the best designed fights, absent of the lag some players experience, because honestly it's some of the most advanced content at current you can get given the play style of our current battle system. In such, I'd hate to see it nerfed in essence, but an echo buff, may not be so bad. Its rare that people fail Titan Ex, because they couldn't do enough damage (with everyone up/no weakness) but more because of failure at dodging so what would, an echo buff do for them if they still can't dodge lol

Same thing with Ifrit EX, if tanks don't swap properly if people aren't dodging correctly or healers are flubbing on healing or searing wind, again an echo buff probably wouldn't add too much to the mix and if nails are actually breaking quicker due to higher DPS, this actually may make it more difficult.

Garuda EX stands to be the only primal that can actually be made easier via echo buff, because you essentially make it easier to tank with more HP and go through rotations faster with higher DPS overall.

Other things like ADS, High Voltage being esuna-able, I actually agree with. It makes no sense to reflect the urgency of a High Voltage being silenced, but give no option to recover properly if it does happen. In essence that's forcing a party setup to include two silencing classes.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

I don't know why the instances are been nerf when they will already get a "nerf" via overgear with uncap myth and the new gear.

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This is also really damn true too.

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

By nerfing content you are basically telling everyone who worked hard for their gear that their time was wasted. Why should we push to beat Leviathan? In 3 months you're just going to make it easier right? Wait till then, do it the easy way and get the same rewards as people who worked really hard to beat it.

Should everyone be entitled to the same rewards regardless of skill level or time invested? I really don't think so.

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I have a little question for you and people who liked your post:
Have you, or your FC ever sold an HM/Ex win?
I bet for most the answer is yes.

your answer is "you really dont care if they pay you for it!!"

your actual issue is not that people can get to new content / have old done but that you can't make profit for it!!

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Should everyone be entitled to the same rewards regardless of skill level or time invested? I really don't think so.

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Yes they should because all these old rewards will be irrelevant with the new content.

This idea that beating content in a friggin' video game is an "accomplishment" of any significant meaning is pretty sad. It's a video game. It's a time waster by definition. Nothing you do in it is of any actual significance. And to be a successful time waster SE needs to provide content. MMOs always make higher level content easier when they introduce newer higher level content to open that content to those who hadn't the time nor inclination to beat it yet. You have to keep the whole community progressing.

OP, just look at it this way.

You beat it before Nerf, and it will be recorded in history.

The reward for working toward something and given things to you.


Tho i wish the icon for weapon/armor obtained before nerf would look different form faceroll version.

Why do people feel their time was wasted? They have had their wins and weapons and armors for ages already and will continue to next content ASAP and yet again be ahead of the people who are still tackling older content.

It's like... imagine if someone gave you a really spiffy bike while your buddy has no bike. For 4 months you will ride the bike every day while your buddy has to walk. One day, someone gives your buddy a bike too. But on the same day, he would also give you an awesome car. Would you now be mad your buddy has a bike and feel like the 4 months you didn't have to walk was useless?

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Why do people feel their time was wasted? They have had their wins and weapons and armors for ages already and will continue to next content ASAP and yet again be ahead of the people who are still tackling older content.

It's like... imagine if someone gave you a really spiffy bike while your buddy has no bike. For 4 months you will ride the bike every day while your buddy has to walk. One day, someone gives your buddy a bike too. But on the same day, he would also give you an awesome car. Would you now be mad your buddy has a bike and feel like the 4 months you didn't have to walk was useless?

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^ This x 10.000.000.000.000.000

But i guess is more important "to be the very best": Oh, you want to get this shiny item too, even if is outdated? Na, you suck, is not for you.

I want bumpers on the Titan arena so people won't fall off :)

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Originally Posted by Balfreid

Old content gets nerfed, new content gets released. Welcome to the current cycle of MMORPGs. This has been happening for years.

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This right here. It's going to continue to happen this way too. That's how they keep casual players. You'll get the new drops from t9 and they won't have them, you can feel like you have accomplished something until the next update. I 100% agree with casual content and hardcore content so that they can keep both player bases happy, but I think we'll always see things skewed towards casual content so they can retain a robust playerbase. I am hoping there is enough content to keep me logging in, honestly I log in on mondays now and that's pretty much it for the rest of the week. I'm excited for stuff like gardening, stuff that might have rng possibility to give you something rare, I hope it's not a total cake walk. If only they'd add in open world NM's, I wouldn't be logging off to play my 3ds or my ps4.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Would you now be mad your buddy has a bike and feel like the 4 months you didn't have to walk was useless?

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Originally Posted by Merle

^ This x 10.000.000.000.000.000

But i guess is more important "to be the very best": Oh, you want to get this shiny item too, even if is outdated? Na, you suck, is not for you.

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Except that, now this buddy still has not learned how to ride the bicycle, have training wheels on and will expect future things to handed down to him or come with training wheels..

Didn't they confirm that you were able to remove the Echo Buff? If so, very little content is actually getting nerfed for "hardcore" players. If you feel that someone else got it the easy way, that's your prerogative, and a fairly narcissistic way of looking at it. This is going to keep happening so that there is a very difficult set of content, and a mid-level difficulty set of content each patch, and it keeps progressing forward. Even with the Echo Buff, T5 will still be quite difficult for a lot of people.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

Except that, now this buddy still has not learned how to ride the bicycle, have training wheels on and will expect future things to handed down to him or come with training wheels..

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Mmmm you have a point. But being honest, then we should remove FATEs too, since a lot of players level up to 50 doing them (maybe less now we have duty roulette) and they have no idea how to play their job (i swear one day i saw a full ilvl 90 Monk and i was about to cry seeing his rotation...). Also, i know a lot of people who were carried to get their relics (or selling wins), so i guess no matter what you do, you will always meet someone with "training wheels".

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

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It's OLD content now. I90 is now entry level. You really want SE to make entry level gear difficult to obtain? If you're all "hardcore", then you should have had Turn 5 and the extreme primals on farm for months now. Why should you care that casuals get a little help completing something that you're probably becoming bored of?

Not everyone has a static and can play 40 hours a week. Casual people pay money too and SE has pretty much found the perfect balance. Hardcore people get new content and the casual people get easier access to the older content.

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Originally Posted by Merle

Mmmm you have a point. But being honest, then we should remove FATEs too, since a lot of players level up to 50 doing them (maybe less now we have duty roulette) and they have no idea how to play their job (i swear one day i saw a full ilvl 90 Monk and i was about to cry seeing his rotation...). Also, i know a lot of people who were carried to get their relics (or selling wins), so i guess no matter what you do, you will always meet someone with "training wheels".

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yeah just gotta live to the fact that there will be people like that.. im scared of Pick up groups...

Yeah i'm not a fan of FATE, tho i have used it, but it is not a good training for end game... i met bards in WP who didn't know ballad.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

Yeah i'm not a fan of FATE, tho i have used it, but it is not a good training for end game... i met bards in WP who didn't know ballad.

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I joined a titan hard party with 3 brds and all 3 of them casted ballad at the same time during all the battle. We were lacking dps on heart phase. When i explained how ballad work they said "aaaaah..... didn't read the description". I have all jobs and i know i'm not a god on every job, but gesh... at least i do my research, specially with my main job ><

Tho i agree with what you are saying, but stop pulling facts from Roegaydens butt.!!!

I disagree with these....

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it's OLD content now.

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3-5 month content is "old"... it troubles me.

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Not everyone has a static and can play 40 hours a week.

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Turn 1-5, Primal x3, and a run of CT takes 3 hours. I have no Static(will for 6-9).

I play about 3-5 hours on Monday, rest of the day maybe 1-2 hours(sometimes don't even log in).

Im not a Hardcore gamer, maybe according to FFXIV standards, i might be, even tho i try not to lol.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

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When the ilvl is bumped up to 110 and i90 (which drops in coil and the extreme primals) will be as easy as grinding for myth (same as Phil tomes), then yes, all of that content is old, entry level content. Should obtaining an i90 primal weapon be difficult when you can Zenith your relic in a day after 2.2? You have all of those things on farm.. in pugs. Good for you. Personally, I've been banging my head against titan Ex for a month because farm groups won't let you in unless you've beaten it (they'll queue for Ifrit first) and learning groups are full of people that die quickly and leave the group just as fast.

Again, bring on the echo buff I say. If it helps more groups clear the content, then I'm all for it. Especially when the content is going to be 20 ilvls below the top now (All of your awesome Myth and Coil gear is now the equivalent of Darklight... the shame!).

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

All of your awesome Myth and Coil gear is now the equivalent of Darklight... the shame!).

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I know.. i just got few of my allagan for my PLD as well....

I hope they at least make ti so we can convert or trade them in.... i still have my DL from 6 months ago hoping i can get reimbursed...

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Originally Posted by Synapse

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It is old content. 2.2 is new 2.1 is old but if you want to feel bitter about these changes instead of appreciating and looking forward to all the new content that's on you.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

I know.. i just got few of my allagan for my PLD as well....

I hope they at least make ti so we can convert or trade them in.... i still have my DL from 6 months ago hoping i can get reimbursed...

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So.. you didn't get any use out of the DL gear then? It didn't make gaining the Allagan/myth easier? And now, you don't think having Myth/Allagan will make the new content easier to get started with?

This is an MMO and this is how MMOs work, Whether the progression is vertical or horizontal, gear that you work on getting for a while will always become useless (stat wise) eventually. And if it didn't, then no one would continue to play once they became BiS.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

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To expand on this, I've been playing since 1.0 and launch and I am still impressed when I see someone with an Allagan weapon. Will I be less impressed after this patch? A little. It's still going to be difficult, and the full extent of the Echo Buff doesn't hit until 6-8 whole weeks from patch. However, there is a whole new set to be impressed by.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

Whether the progression is vertical or horizontal, gear that you work on getting for a while will always become useless (stat wise) eventually.

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Not exactly.

Vertical progression(FFXIV) means the gear are old within 2-3 months... Horizontal progression means, those gears will be useful even if there is new gears available.

FFXIV have it so that you MUST get a new gear every 2-3 months.

Horizontal progression keeps things useful(lot longer than a vertical). Getting a weapon just to get another weapon(in 5-6 days) is kinda bad design.

For example.. a weapon that hits for 2x or have a "enhances internal release" will have it uses even if there is a new generic weapon with higher stats available.


I was doing coil with AK/DL gears, when DL was hard to get.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

Whether the progression is vertical or horizontal, gear that you work on getting for a while will always become useless (stat wise) eventually. And if it didn't, then no one would continue to play once they became BiS.

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Actually, this is 99% true with Vertical progression only. Horizontal tend to keep BiS gear scattered throughout new and old content to keep said content relevant through the years. Eventually, horizontal progression gear will be outdated but MUCH slower than Vertical.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Actually, this is 99% true with Vertical progression only. Horizontal tend to keep BiS gear scattered throughout new and old content to keep said content relevant through the years. Eventually, horizontal progression gear will be outdated but MUCH slower than Vertical.

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But by doing that, you make other gear useless. By that I mean, an item at lvl30 may be better than items at lvl50...but all of the items in between are useless, too. IMO, the higher level item should be the better one.

Someone probably said this already, but the ego behind the OP argument is astounding. It sums up as "I beat the content before the nerf and I don't want anyone else getting through it ever so I can keep using it to lift my e-peen."

If you've cleared it, move to the new stuff. That's what the rest of us will be doing. Someone else clearing it *after* you has absolutely no bearing on what you did, nor will their i90 gear mean *anything* next to the 110/115 stuff the Coil 2.0 player will be sporting.

If anything, I'm looking forward to the BREAK on the new content. With the HMs getting toned down, it will be that much easier to push alts and guildies through the old content. It won't take nearly as much effort and I'll be able to get back to working on the new top-tier stuff.

Obvious e-peen is obvious. No one cares when you got through what.

I have waited a long time to try out garuda and titan hm, I decided that I'd try to get some gear from crystal tower and maybe one or two ilvl 90. But now that they're nerfing it I don't really feel like trying it out anymore. What's the point, if we wipe it will just be easier. Feel so bummed out and I am not even sure if I want to play anymore. I think this game is great and I want the progress to be slower so that I won't get bored too quickly, but by nerfing everything they're doing the exact opposite.

It's like "Alright we got new content, screw the old one, new player shouldn't get the same experience as older players so let's just makie it so easy that they can't fail it"

I also read that they're nerfing my favourite dungeon, Pharos Sirius. I loved it cause we wiped so many times but manage to finally beat the bosses by trial and error.

Are people playing to have fun or to get the latest gear as soon as possible?

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

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You can remove the Echo Buff. If you want it to continue being difficult, you have that option. The progress is getting higher iLVLs. It will still be slow. Even if you leave the Echo Buff on, you will still die to most everything if you're standing in it. The only thing that will be easier is the speed of the fight itself. DPS will have an easier time, and healers as well. Tanking and mechanics of movement are still relevant.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

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I just don't understand the concept. They get new content, which mean the game will live longer. You could take the step from fresh 50 to ilvl 70, and start farming ct for ilvl 80 then the myth gear and theen you get the chance to try the new content.
But instead they made it so you theoretically could get ilvl 80 (at least some parts) in one day by grinding ct. And try out the new content the same day you hit 50. And then when they've done the new content everyone will get bored and wait for the new content. Instead they could keep it as it is so that it took longer to get to the latest content for new players so they wouldn't get bored too fast.

Sorry if I'm typing in a really messy way and it might not even make any sense! But I'm too tired to figure out a smarter way to get my point out

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

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Well you're doing the latter obviously. Since you aren't even doing old content regardless if you have the gear for it or not. So your 2 cents are a complaint that you should take up with your own persona.

Most people want to do the content but they realize it is not possible when you have to rely on 3-7 people that you can't truly depend on. Which is why the amount of people that can down content is a very small percentage and will only get smaller and smaller for obvious reasons.

Every individual plays for their own reasons there's no point generalizing when you're only questioning up to 5-10 people here at most.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

I have waited a long time to try out garuda and titan hm, I decided that I'd try to get some gear from crystal tower and maybe one or two ilvl 90. But now that they're nerfing it I don't really feel like trying it out anymore. What's the point, if we wipe it will just be easier. Feel so bummed out and I am not even sure if I want to play anymore. I think this game is great and I want the progress to be slower so that I won't get bored too quickly, but by nerfing everything they're doing the exact opposite.

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I bet you still die to Titan HM plenty even after the nerf. It's like some people think these nerfs will mean people can just stand in landslide or WoTL and survive. They're not giving people a win button. If people can't dodge and play their class, they will still be halted at Titan HM.