Please give archer a dagger.

Archers would go for melee attack in options where either we have to be in the mobs face or if there is a certain amount of delay between shots etc. In a dungeon you might be locked into to close quarter areas like small hallways and what not. I would go with option 1 of the OP because it makes the most sense and an Archer would never attack with his bare fists for obvious reasons. His hands are really important and wouldn't take a chance in breaking a finger when having to pull bowstrings. Even if you just gave us a simplified dagger for looks like a hunting knife instead of having using your fists I would be happy.

Actually a lot of bows in the old days could be used as a weapon themselves close range because they were very sturdy and strong made of special wood that won't break from pressure. You could always make it where an Archer slaps the enemy with the bow and the animations would be fairly simple to design.

These arguments make no sense what does it matter if archers use use bare fist close attack. On the post on the lodestone they never said they was removing archers close shot skill so I'm gonna assume you can still shoot close range... if anything your DPS will be even better now. When the mob is close you get free punches plus... shots, I don't get whats the crying is for...

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The following basic attacks will be removed:
Pugilist: Heavy Strike
Gladiator: Light Slash
Marauder: Light Swing
Lancer: Light Thrust

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Seems to me when solo your gonna be even better now.. and i personally like the ammo thing if they plan to add the different ammo's like they in XI it will be very cool...

I thought the 12 didn't want us fighting with our bare hands?

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Originally Posted by NefGP

I thought the 12 didn't want us fighting with our bare hands?

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I LOL'd

Maybe they've changed their minds since alpha/beta 1? :o

not reading thread but i loved playing ranger in ffxi and in ffxivb BECAUSE of manually attacking. When you play elder scroll games for years, you tend to enjoy actually playing your character. even in WoW i tend to spam my light shot or my other arrow moves and my pets kill skill. Just to keep active or I get bored. Even when I play the sims i tend to use puppet mode (no free will sim relies on you.) If I do not stay active in a game I get bored.
Kinda an ADD thing.

Well for Archer you know the auto attack isn't going to be your main attack but it just doesn't make sense to punch with an Archer for what auto attack that there will be. Some people don't get why it matters but some people look at stuff like this for game immersion, and when things don't make sense and look funny that really takes away from immersion. Sure one or two small things won't kill the feel but you get a handful of small problems and that will wreck it for some.

I can understand that whacking the mob with our hand doesn't seem logic (Ok, slapping the mob like: "Bish you're in my face", feels good). But I don't think that daggers fit with ARC, maybe only throwing daggers then again this is also a long/mid-range move. And reading all the posts just reminds me that we archers need a new bow (a r50 one). Perhaps it's time for a for a new bowtype that can be use to hit the enemy (think like spikes/scales of mobs on the bow or heavily armed with steel to do damage... like blunt w/e). I do like the idea to have a "bow-slamming" move.

EDIT: So just to be clear, something else than crabbow or armored cavalry bow.

Theres no need for daggers for Archer anyway.

Just give them auto-attack stone throw. They are ment to be a long range class anyway. doesnt make sense to give them daggers for this game.

I'm making a separate archer auto-attack thread so we can debate it there and hopefully get a separate dev answer direct to the point.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Yes-please.%29

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Originally Posted by Venat

Theres no need for daggers for Archer anyway.

Just give them auto-attack stone throw. They are ment to be a long range class anyway. doesnt make sense to give them daggers for this game.

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But yet, every melee class has ranged attack weapons.

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Originally Posted by Scape

But yet, every melee class has ranged attack weapons.

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And yet they don't do their main form of damage via range attack weapons that people rarely even make.

Odd, huh?

Who said that close combat was going to be the main form of dmg?

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

Who said that close combat was going to be the main form of dmg?

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Right, that was my thought... I was more or less thinking it wouldn't make since to hit with their bare hands, and a dagger makes more since. But I can understand that it might be difficult.

I say make the arrow an auto attack, or give them a dagger. Cmon now Yoshi!

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Originally Posted by AtlasThomas

I say make the arrow an auto attack, or give them a dagger. Cmon now Yoshi!

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Here is a great thread for the AA debate for Archer... :)

I'm fine with AA, but this thread is more for hitting with bare fists.

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Originally Posted by Griss

Ya know with the way the later bows have all that armor plating and spikes and god knows what else tacked on. It would make more sense for a arc to play a bit of el Kabong with there bow in melee distance.

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I'm on board with this idea, when using AA at melee range, why not just have them clock the mob with the bow's edge, maybe adding a push back effect chance or a bind effect chance, so the Archer can better get back to proper range?

Archer's attacking with fists is just stupid imo, makes no sense whatsoever. Either have auto-attack arrows, or use the bow as a weapon at close range like staves/clubs are supposedly going to be doing. Can't be that hard to implement

It is common sense for them to have some type of small melee weapon perhaps a knife of sorts. That is why people are saying go with a dagger. Hell even soldiers today who use guns for main combat carry a combat knife with them for when all else fails. For this game it would be a simple immersion mechanic to make the masses happy, I really see no point arguing against it, hell I even offered using a bow for a weapon just for a quick smack. Bows were very sturdy and strong and could be used to deflect a sword or to hit someone who got too close without damaging the bow.

If your close enough to B****slap your foe...your doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Skeloton

If your close enough to B****slap your foe...your doing it wrong.

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when your playing solo or get hate (its quite easy right now) then its going to happen. Also WTF with giving basically every damn mob a ranged attack...whos genius idea was that?

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

Also WTF with giving basically every damn mob a ranged attack...whos genius idea was that?

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Same guy that thought fatigued XP was a good idea :P

the same guy who realized that if mobs cant hit you, they cant kill you. How exactly does the monster without range have any hope of beating a Ranged charachter?

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

when your playing solo or get hate (its quite easy right now) then its going to happen.

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Solo: Close Shot, Shadowbind

Party: Quelling Strike, Out of Sight

After reading this thread I realize the only logical solution is, archers should just cry when in close range.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

After reading this thread I realize the only logical solution is, archers should just cry when in close range.

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Eh, I'll just run and/or command that my tank intervenes at once. If my foes gets too close then I'm doing it wrong

So basically I thought about it and I decided if a mob gets to close to you and you have to use your fists, then you should probably play a different class because you don't know how to efficiently play Archer. :/

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Solo: Close Shot, Shadowbind

Party: Quelling Strike, Out of Sight

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You really think Archer should be stuck spamming Close Shot and Shadowbind when solo?

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So basically I thought about it and I decided if a mob gets to close to you and you have to use your fists, then you should probably play a different class because you don't know how to efficiently play Archer. :/

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You have got to be kidding. Please tell me how you are keeping pairs and groups of mobs off of you when doing something like soloing leves. Even if its just one mob, Close Shot and Shadowbind do not bind the mob 100% of the time, and you still gotta worry about them missing all together. Not to mention you need TP and 50% stamina for Shadowbind... on top of a 40 second recast.

Mobs are going to get up close and personal with your Archer, there is no way around it.

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Originally Posted by Scape

You really think Archer should be stuck spamming Close Shot and Shadowbind when solo?

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No I do not, nor do players who play the class effectively have to do so. You bind the mob, get your distance, multishot to full, buff your attack, and kill it. Spamming not required.

for all these "expert" ARCs who say your doing it wrong...please...show me a video where you do anything solo and have no mob get close to your, or when your in a tankless group. id love to see how you "do it right"

In a game where you constantly fight mob groups and with how broken the hate system is, its going to happen...but id love for you to prove otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

for all these "expert" ARCs who say your doing it wrong...please...show me a video where you do anything solo and have no mob get close to your, or when your in a tankless group. id love to see how you "do it right"

In a game where you constantly fight mob groups and with how broken the hate system is, its going to happen...but id love for you to prove otherwise.

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not once do I claim to be an "expert"

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Originally Posted by Skeloton

not once do I claim to be an "expert"

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Nor is anyone saying mobs don't get close to archers for that matter. It happens. However, archers specifically have tools to mitigate that and people should be using them instead of worrying about archer melee. That isn't where the archer's strength is going to be.

What does a mage do when mobs get up close? Same thing. They bind or otherwise neutralize the threat and then nuke from a safe distance. They aren't going to sit there and beat on it with their staff.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Nor is anyone saying mobs don't get close to archers for that matter. It happens. However, archers specifically have tools to mitigate that and people should be using them instead of worrying about archer melee. That isn't where the archer's strength is going to be.

What does a mage do when mobs get up close? Same thing. They bind or otherwise neutralize the threat and then nuke from a safe distance. They aren't going to sit there and beat on it with their staff.

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In leve-parties I rarely get mobbed unless I was the one to start the leve for some reason. As ARC in parties I make sure I got Out of Sight, chameleon and quelling strike, after all that I just spam Multishots.

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Originally Posted by Skeloton

In leve-parties I rarely get mobbed unless I was the one to start the leve for some reason. As ARC in parties I make sure I got Out of Sight, chameleon and quelling strike, after all that I just spam Multishots.

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Yep exactly this. Even then sometimes the archer will draw hate, most of the time due to buffs which have an insane hate generation for some reason. But as long as the archer is using the abilities you mentioned, and not spamming too much, the hate is short lived.

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Originally Posted by Skeloton

not once do I claim to be an "expert"

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when you say "If your close enough to B****slap your foe...your doing it wrong." it sounds like you must be some master at it. Its not like you said fi ones stays on you too long, or if your getting attacked too much up close, you not doing it right, you made it seem liek if they get close enough to hit you, you cant play the job...which is why i said what i did.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

when you say "If your close enough to B****slap your foe...your doing it wrong." it sounds like you must be some master at it. Its not like you said fi ones stays on you too long, or if your getting attacked too much up close, you not doing it right, you made it seem liek if they get close enough to hit you, you cant play the job...which is why i said what i did.

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and when I said "If your close enough to B****slap your foe...your doing it wrong." I was saying it for humorous effect. Sadly not everyone will ever understand British Humour.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey guys! We asked Matsui about adding daggers for archers to use when fighting close range. He replied:



You are just going to have to learn how to strike first, strike hard, and give no mercy. ;)

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I love The Karate Kid reference of this. lol

Couldn't this be resolved by changing it to a Primary and Secondary weapon set for each class? Like you know, whats there now, but add in Offhand Daggers:

Gladiator equips Sword and Shield
Archer equips Bow and Dagger and Arrows go in Range slot - Dagger not main hand equipable and use shield slot.

This would open the possibility for Gladiator to use an Offhand dagger, while giving Archers the ability to use a weapon in close range.

how about.... a pet or something that can taunt the mobs off you

having the pet out would give you a penalty to stats...attack or what ever... so it would only be useful for solo play and not group activities.

pet could not be target of cure spells so it cant be abused as a tank in a group situation either.

wolf or something.

just an idea since the real problem is solo play and keeping the mob at a distance right? not how pretty you look at close combat?

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Originally Posted by Sypherblade

how about.... a pet or something that can taunt the mobs off you

having the pet out would give you a penalty to stats...attack or what ever... so it would only be useful for solo play and not group activities.

pet could not be target of cure spells so it cant be abused as a tank in a group situation either.

wolf or something.

just an idea since the real problem is solo play and keeping the mob at a distance right? not how pretty you look at close combat?

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No. Beastmaster and Summoner are separate classes.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

No. Beastmaster and Summoner are separate classes.

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could just give beastmaster and summoner totally different mechanics...like abilities and multiple pet choices...

archer can just have a simple "call wolf" that has no special abilites what so ever...just auto attack and taunt

*shrug* idk lol