Tanks That Hate Fluid Aura

Holy isn't nearly as bad, but it drains a lot of mana so do not use it in extended, healing-intense fights where you will run a risk of running out of mana to heal.

Don't spam it if the fight requires a move to be stunned because enemies build stun resistance the more you stun them.

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Originally Posted by odie

i may not be reading this right....but are you suggesting that its okay for the healer to blast the target out of range and sleep it, then the tank to use provoke, which has a long recast, to pick it back up? the point of working as a team is to make everyones job easier. this sounds like...."oh well, the tank needs to be on his toes while i sabotage the smooth run because provoke will save us". You'll waste provoke on that unnecessary target and then what if something goes wrong and the tank needs it again? they won't have it. If my healer wants to make my job harder, they get to tank their own mob. simple as that.

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Heres a fun fact I wasn't entirely sure about. Healing generates zero threat to sleeping targets. Hitting it with anything ~45 seconds later would get it back.

I Tank and Heal and to be honest it has never bothered me :) if both players are doing their jobs properly it should never be an issue. Yes of course if something goes wrong fluid aura isn’t going to help the tank but it’s really not a big deal the tank should just provoke and ranged pull it back.

As for holy there are plenty of dungeons where you get a chance to use it and even put out some dps as a healer you just need to do it responsibly.

holy is fine as long as the healer can switch stance and still heal just fine. its also useful in the Aurum Vale. Holy does AoE damage and causes stun on targets it hits.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Heres a fun fact I wasn't entirely sure about. Healing generates zero threat to sleeping targets. Hitting it with anything ~45 seconds later would get it back.

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why make the tanks job harder in the first place?

*waves to Scarlet* ^__^

Hi S C A R L E T !!! !
lol

Just tanked a level 41 dungeon with a WHM doing this. I decided to put up with it since the DPS were ranged. It was the most pointless thing ever. She'd knock them out of the DPS' AoEs(SMNs dots) and my flash then sleep it. Half the time she'd pick the target me and the DPS were on(which was marked with the #1) to knock away. Then she did it on a boss once... while I was hitting it. And no, she never got aggro once. She apologized about that one but I didn't answer her the entire time. I noticed that the BRD started to get annoyed at her, because half way through the dungeon he began to switch to her knocked away target, hit it once to break the sleep, then go back to the one I had marked to focus. All she managed to do was to slow down the DPS and force me to run around more. Next time I come across a healer who wants to waste my time in a dungeon like that, I'll save him the drama by dismissing myself from it.

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Originally Posted by odie

why make the tanks job harder in the first place?

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CC makes dungeons easier. You only make it harder for yourself and the healer.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

CC makes dungeons easier. You only make it harder for yourself and the healer.

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If someone can't easily heal through a low level dungeon without CCs, either they're a terrible healer or the tank is GROSSLY undergeared. This is coming from someone who mains a SCH and also has a lv 50 WHM.

EDIT: And IMO Fluid Aura + sleep are two GCDs that would be better used DPSing.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

It's like you play some imaginary game where pugs attack the correct marked targets 100% of the time.

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This has nothing to do with what we're discussing.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

CC makes dungeons easier. You only make it harder for yourself and the healer.

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Yes, CC makes dungeons easier. The problem is that instead of just using Repose on a mob, you're advocating using 3 abilities (Fluid Aura + Repose + Provoke) to do a worse job than what 1 ability alone (Repose) could do.

I don't get this thread entirely (or more accurately I don't get how it became 20+ pages long). Granted I haven't read all 21 pages maybe about 5 of them. But isn't it like basic MMO play 101 that you never use knockback effects in party play? Knockbacks are usually designed for solo kiting or pvp and are a huge headache annoyance for party play. I have yet to play an MMO where rage didn't rain down like a hail storm whenever anyone used knockback abilities while in a party. There may be special situations on specific encounters where it can be helpful but the general rule is avoid using knockbacks when in a party. It will do more harm than good 99% of the time.

I guess CC would be useful for a below average party but any normal one should be able to deal with a group of adds. Dungeons are extremely easy. Eos pretty much healed dungeons solo for me up to Blayfox while I was in cleric stance the whole time.

I know that the skill has situational uses, but most of the time the whm just uses it for the sake of using it. For example.

I was in Dzemael Darkhold the other day and I holmganged a ranged mob to be in the purple only to have the whm run up, fluid aura it halfway across the room then back up. The whm was not being attacked and was losing absolutely no health. This happens all the time and it just grinds my gears. Please stop? T_T Please?

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

And there is a point beyond just meager damage and that's that it decreases damage the tank takes (because you know the mob isn't there for a few seconds attacking them).

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As stupid as this entire thread is, I thought I'd go ahead and help point our your hypocrisy and one of your poorly thought out talking points. See, you talk about using it here to decrease the damage the tank is taking....but then you say:

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(remember also that in my example, we were talking about Tam Tara - healer doesn't need to heal much and the DPS they do to the main target isn't going to increase hate on the secondary/tertiary targets)

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You had said this before as well...that since you are in Tam Tara, it shouldn't matter what you do. If you are in Tam Tara, then why do you need to use Fluid Aura to lower the damage the tank is tanking? You JUST said the tank isn't taking much damage and you don't need to heal much. So do some actual DPS yourself! By using Fluid Aura, not only do you disrupt the tank's rotations...but if you have any melee DPS, you just botched their entire DPS rotations and actually SLOWED your group.

im now lv42 WHM and had no problem DPSing in all dungeons

the only dungeon i couldnt DPS in was brayflox tbh

using fluid aura if the tank not lost aggro to healer is just stupid

even if tank lose aggro i dont need it as im always by tank side

staying far back doesnt help if tank lose aggro

There are two types of people in this world. Both use fluid aura.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

snip

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As a long time whm, I only use fluid aura if there is a need for it OR if the mob is not knockback-able.

Fluid aura is a net party DPS loss, there's a reason why I don't spin the mob around like a blender when tanking. Moving a mob is basically dps downtime.

I am sorry to tell you all this but

http://memecrunch.com/meme/9S3X/you-...lled/image.png

I use fluid aura all the time everywhere, on mobs when they are going to die or against a wall, otherwise i wont be able to holy the whole pack. However even if a whm is in love with the spell that he/she wants to use it under any circumstances i dont see a problem, if a majority was that childish to vote kick for that then i hope they do get deservedly banned.

The only time I appreciate Fluid Aura is during the 2nd boss of Wander's Palace. I don't have a problem with you using it if you have aggro either, although more often than not it gets knocked further away from me, causing me to lose aggro on other stuff to chase it down. Any tank worth their salt already has a cover macro with target's target in it so you shouldn't be getting hit for long anyhow.

Amazing this thread has gone 23 pages (so far) when really all that can be said has been said, and the subject is so very specific. It shows, I think, how deep and almost universal is the annoyance of tanks and DPS with healers who use FA as a regular dps skill outside of its very narrow group uses.

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

However even if a whm is in love with the spell that he/she wants to use it under any circumstances i dont see a problem, if a majority was that childish to vote kick for that then i hope they do get deservedly banned.

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That's harassment. Being bad on purpose.

Like if a tank doesn't want to flash/overpower to pull hate or DDs that constantly attack mobs first. GUYSS!! Learn how to play as a team or don't play multiplayer games, simple.

"Oh hey, i see you like using Fluid Aura. Here let me help you!"
(Holmgang)

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!?

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Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Amazing this thread has gone 23 pages

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23? I count 6.

I use fluid aura on the slimes and those elemental things in Pharos Sirius because no one ever seems to want to interrupt Divide or Bane II. If I position myself right, they just get knocked against the wall so they don't even move very far. xD

I've never seen so many people nag and complain about one skill.

Every time I used it in a dungeon, my tanks LOLed and the DPS are like dafuq.

"OH NO TANK, HE'S COMING FOR YOU FLUID AURAOIEAJUDF O:IQEJFWL: ERJL:J.... I saved you"

I just dived into the world of melees and already hate that skill lol. For a melee it is "only" annoying because I have to move instead of dealing damage but for a tank who aims for crowd control, this skill is more than counter prodcuctive. The skill is meant as an escape skill. Monster approaches WHM and nobody is there to help and in this situation, the skill is useful because it provides you with the few seconds you may need to kill him or to heal yourself. But some WHM's are using it like an attack skill whenever is is ready. They should play a tank or melee characater one time with such a WHM and then they might reconsider when and how they use it. :P

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

I use fluid aura all the time everywhere, on mobs when they are going to die or against a wall, otherwise i wont be able to holy the whole pack. However even if a whm is in love with the spell that he/she wants to use it under any circumstances i dont see a problem, if a majority was that childish to vote kick for that then i hope they do get deservedly banned.

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Ban the majority of people? Here's to hoping you never end up working for SE.

Hilarious =) this Discussion is so Black and White...

Popp the Popcorn, i love you guys!

http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/t/r/trollfaceplz.gif?8

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Someone that wants to enjoy all the abilities SE gave my job. And to JayCommon above, actually it's not harassment to continue using the abilities SE gave my job. That's crazy talk. I'm not touching the tank's hiney w/ Fluid Form here. I'm playing the game w/ abilities SE gave me using my own best judgment. I think asking me not to do that is equally unreasonable.

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I do not get you. Your OP stated that, as a tank, it is annoying when WHM does fluid aura on main target mobs, but then you keep stating again and again that as a whm you dont really care if tank is annoyed. This IS harassment, plain and simple. You already stated the ability annoys YOU, so why is it okay to do it to others?

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Originally Posted by Jilse

I do not get you. Your OP stated that, as a tank, it is annoying when WHM does fluid aura on main target mobs, but then you keep stating again and again that as a whm you dont really care if tank is annoyed. This IS harassment, plain and simple. You already stated the ability annoys YOU, so why is it okay to do it to others?

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You, like many others in this thread, just failed to read. I said that it annoys me when knockbacks are used on the main target. I use my knockbacks on secondary/tertiary targets. Not hypocrisy, you just suck at reading.

To further clarify: I never said once that I didn't care if tanks are annoyed let alone repeatedly. I do try to work with my party and I do care if they're annoyed. HOWEVER, I do not accept that a tank is a de facto leader and gets to boss me around. They may ask NICELY for me to not use knockback and I will take it under CONSIDERATION. IF I decide to continue using it, it's because I disagree with your assessment. This MAY make me a bad player IN YOUR OPINION. Nobody can state that I'm just trolling or, as one player said "being bad on purpose" because we all have different opinions. Here's the thing about that: mine is EQUALLY VALID.

I may be wrong and if I am, sucks to be me I guess, but calling it harassment is simply a stretch. The players that think that it IS harassment would just like to bully people like me into doing what they tell me to do. I don't remember agreeing to that in the ToS! LOL

Next point, most people missed that I was referring primarily to low level content. They mention Repose, they mention Dreadnoughts, LOL. Not relevant. And to say that I'm defeating my own point because I said A) Fluid Aura can save the tank some damage while tank and DPS focus on the main target. And: B) Tam Tara is easy. Well those 2 things are not opposed. Why not try to play your job to the best of your ability? And yes, I do think it's ridiculous to get bent out of shape if someone THINKS they're playing the job to the best of their ability (as I do), still gets the job done, but doesn't meet some kind of rigid standard you have set. Easy content. Save your complaining for your PF 1 strike parties LOL

Lastly, because I said the ability is on my hotbar and I want to use it doesn't mean that I advocate using abilities any old time. The people who said that about me are just jerks who can't read, plain and simple. There's a lot of middle ground between "use this ability willy nilly, even when it doesn't make sense" and "don't even have that ability on your hotbar, you NOOB." I use the ability when it makes sense ACCORDING TO MY ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION.

This means I don't Fluid Aura slept targets, I don't Fluid Aura targets that are being AOE'd (or otherwise targeted by attacks) and I don't let Fluid Aura get in the way of what I or the rest of my party is doing. But I'm not going to stop using it just because seeing a mob go flying sends the tank into "OMG I lost hate" panic mode.

Man up, wear 2 pairs of underwear, and quit raging at your WHMs.

In the future, I'm not going to respond to any posts that fail to comprehend my meaning. So find a sentence, take it out of context, get all the thumbs up from other idiots that you want but you and I won't be having a conversation about it.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

They may ask NICELY for me to not use knockback and I will take it under CONSIDERATION. IF I decide to continue using it, it's because I disagree with your assessment. This MAY make me a bad player IN YOUR OPINION. Nobody can state that I'm just trolling or, as one player said "being bad on purpose" because we all have different opinions. Here's the thing about that: mine is EQUALLY VALID.

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You are a jerk. No wonder your party vote kicked you. If we could all vote kick you from this forum we would.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

You are a jerk. No wonder your party vote kicked you. If we could all vote kick you from this forum we would.

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Yeah, definitely don't sound like a fun person to party with :)

This Purr guy is the kind of people i let get aggro and die... Why not? If he can use all the skills SE gave him, i can also decide not to use all the abilities SE gave me... then they simply rage at me, while i laugh and they end up leaving...
Has a tank i can find a replacement for everyone else ASAP. But, hey... thats just me.

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Originally Posted by Kimzark

This Purr guy is the kind of people i let get aggro and die... Why not? If he can use all the skills SE gave him, i can also decide not to use all the abilities SE gave me... then they simply rage at me, while i laugh and they end up leaving...
Has a tank i can find a replacement for everyone else ASAP. But, hey... thats just me.

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I am going to consider if I want to provoke/flash adds next time, I'm not going to let healers/dds boss me around.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

I said that it annoys me I use my knockbacks you just suck

I never said once that I didn't care if tanks are annoyed I do care if they're annoyed. HOWEVER, IF I decide to continue using it, it's because I disagree with your assessment. This MAY make me a bad player. Nobody can state that I'm just trolling

Lastly, because I said the ability is on my hotbar and I want to use it doesn't mean that I advocate The people who said that about me

This means I don't Fluid Aura slept targets, I don't Fluid Aura targets that are being AOE'd and I don't let Fluid Aura get in the way of what I or the rest of my party is doing. But I'm not going to stop
In the future, I'm not going to respond to any posts

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nuff said, its all about you

There's no I in team but there's several dozen in that wall of text lmao.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

There's no I in team but there's several dozen in that wall of text lmao.

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I beg to differ.

http://static.neatorama.com/images/2.../i-in-team.jpg

Sorry, couldn't help myself. I don't agree with the OP, of course.

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Originally Posted by Elim

I beg to differ.

http://static.neatorama.com/images/2.../i-in-team.jpg

Sorry, couldn't help myself. I don't agree with the OP, of course.

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Drats, beat me to it.

But honestly, the OP keeps digging himself in deeper. His most fundamental mistake (though I guess it's progress that he at least admitted in his last post that he could be wrong) is saying he has an absolute right to do DPS or reposition mobs with knockbacks however he wants regardless of anything else. He argues that he disagrees that the tank is the absolute leader of the group. And on that latter point I agree. However, the tank is in charge of the pace of the run, aggro management and -- wait for it -- mob positioning. Just as DPS are in charge of damage dealing and healers are in charge of healing. This whole 'I only knockback secondary and tertiary targets' is bogus as well. When I'm tanking I trust our DPS to manage damage in the best way for their job. I'm fine with DPS attacking more than #1. In fact, my numbering is mainly intended as a useful guide for what folks should be hitting when doing single target damage. I have no problem with DPS doing aoes or spreading around dots throughout the mobs, if they think it will help bring down the group faster -- as long as they don't do it immediately after the pull. I know how to hold aggro if the DPS are single targeting or aoeing, or some combination of the two.