Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

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Originally Posted by Felis

How about if the class rank is 10 ranks about the dungeon rank then the player get no loot and exp?

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That would be totally fine. Reward is proportional to the difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Lerris

Applying a cap is a little more complicated in FFXIV since we can change classes freely ( and I'm guessing they don't want to disable this ability ) and the level cap would have to be checked every time we did this..

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No it's not more complicated. It's a simple logic check when the player sends the request to the server to change quest. IF CLASS > 30 DENY ELSE CHANGE CLASS. How hard can it be to program that? They wouldn't be disabling the ability to change class, they'd be disabling the ability to use an over-ranked class. You'd still be able to change class to one that meets the requirement.

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It's just so fun to think of a way to solo a dungeon with time and patience and proper planning.

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Plan: Strap on your LV 50 weapon and smash your way to victory in 3 minutes. Nude.

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Originally Posted by Richard

having R50's steamroll a R30 dungeon will not qualify as a challenge. sorry.

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why? it's content and we have been begging for something/anything to do.

reading comprehension ftw. i stated i would get into both as soon as possible. yes, the r30 will be no challenge, but it will be something to do. the r50 is what i will base their idea of challenge off of.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Easy and hard mode is functionally the same thing as a level cap. It's just a difficulty adjustment.

Except a level cap takes less effort by the devs to do since they don't have to design an additional hard mode.

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Yes it takes less effort by the devs, but it is also more annoyance for the players.

When you are downgraded to rank30, you lose AP, which means you have to redo your abilities, if you plan to do it alot, you will have to write a macro, it just sounds like plain annoyance for the players, and that is probably the last thing we need.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

No kidding that's what the R50 dungeon is for.

The R30 dungeon gear is going to be good FOR R30 players. That's what makes it valuable and prestigious. Of course it's useless for R50 players. However, if you intend to rank up your mid-range classes, then all of a sudden it's not so useless anymore. There is a problem if you can just toggle on easy mode to acquire items that are supposed to be good and elite.


Because it is impossible to have the rewards match the effort just by knowing what we know now.

We know that: Raid gear is going to be good. Rank 30 raid gear will be generally better than other gear at rank 30.

Rank 30 raid gear = good gear

Without a level cap, you can steamroll the dungeon as a rank 50 char, therefore not putting in any effort at all to acquire gear that is supposed to be "good".

What this boils down to, basically, is whether or not you are in favor of twinking gear in this game.

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What this REALLY boils down to is a difference in opinion. I don't feel the need or desire to put in an hours worth of effort just for the chance that I am going to get r30 gear, plain and simple. So if the dungeon is capped, I will ignore it and go on about my business. I don't care how challenging the community will think the dungeon is, because, by definition, the r50 dungeon will be MORE challenging. Completing the r50 dungeon is the only feat I feel I need to prove to myself and the community and r30 gear is just going to 'be there'. If it is capped, then it doesn't exist in my eyes and I am not the only one who thinks so.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

No it's not more complicated. It's a simple logic check when the player sends the request to the server to change quest. IF CLASS > 30 DENY ELSE CHANGE CLASS. How hard can it be to program that? They wouldn't be disabling the ability to change class, they'd be disabling the ability to use an over-ranked class. You'd still be able to change class to one that meets the requirement.

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most people do not mean a level cap as in you cannot enter this dunegon, they mean a level cap as in, it adjusts your level for the duration of the raid.
they already have gear scaling in effect, i dont think it would be that hard, but who knows.

I don't understand why some of you are bothered if some Lv50 helps his Lv25 ls mates/friends through the dungeons. With a Lv 50 in group, they won't be getting good sp/xp and as far is loot is concerned this is a lv 25 dungeon so i don't see any epic endgame items being obtained in there. If you want a challenging experience then you should go in with lv 25-30ppl and if others want to be lazy about it they can go in with lv50ppl but their actions does not effect you in anyway. People are exaggerating the issue for no reason at all, im pretty sure your world won't collapse if 3ppl take a Lv50 to go do the Lv25 dungeon, heck 99% of the time you won't even know about it.

lol Sounds like to me some of you people should go play stupid Rift. Good Riddance

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

why? it's content and we have been begging for something/anything to do.

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And if it's too easy, the players will get bored with it too fast and will be clamoring for more content too soon.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

why? it's content and we have been begging for something/anything to do.

reading comprehension ftw. i stated i would get into both as soon as possible. yes, the r30 will be no challenge, but it will be something to do. the r50 is what i will base their idea of challenge off of.

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you have extremely low standards when it comes to gaming then. you may have more fun spending your time in Hello Kitty Online Adventure.

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Originally Posted by Richard

you have extremely low standards when it comes to gaming then. you may have more fun spending your time in Hello Kitty Online Adventure.

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When has trolling people ever been effective in proving a point?

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Originally Posted by Shura

I don't understand why some of you are bothered if some Lv50 helps his Lv25 ls mates/friends through the dungeons. With a Lv 50 in group, they won't be getting good sp/xp and as far is loot is concerned this is a lv 25 dungeon so i don't see any epic endgame items being obtained in there. If you want a challenging experience then you should go in with lv 25-30ppl and if others want to be lazy about it they can go in with lv50ppl but their actions does not effect you in anyway. People are exaggerating the issue for no reason at all, im pretty sure your world won't collapse if 3ppl take a Lv50 to go do the Lv25 dungeon, heck 99% of the time you won't even know about it.

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There are people with no lv.30 jobs left. It's not about the gear its about the principal and the challenge involved. This game is already too easymode as it is.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Yes it takes less effort by the devs, but it is also more annoyance for the players.

When you are downgraded to rank30, you lose AP, which means you have to redo your abilities, if you plan to do it alot, you will have to write a macro, it just sounds like plain annoyance for the players, and that is probably the last thing we need.

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redoing AP isnt that bad for 60 minute content blocks that should theoretically be entertaining.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

When has trolling people ever been effective in proving a point?

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it's definitely not a troll it's a serious suggestion. And since when has responding to every single one of my comments with a troll made you look even the least bit intelligent?

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

And if it's too easy, the players will get bored with it too fast and will be clamoring for more content too soon.

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the 30 dungeon isnt supposed to challenge 50s though
how hard is that to understand

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Originally Posted by Richard

There are people with no lv.30 jobs left. It's not about the gear its about the principal and the challenge involved. This game is already too easymode as it is.

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I will be satisfied by the challenge of the r50 Dungeon which will be harder, by definition, than the r30 Dungeon.

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the 30 dungeon isnt supposed to challenge 50s though
how hard is that to understand

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...which in turn means that it is a very uneconomical way to spend your resources, at best.
They could have 2 dungeons that are challenging and fun for all players, now they have only
one that's challenging and fun for 50s.

Stupid.

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I will be satisfied by the challenge of the r50 Dungeon which will be harder, by definition, than the r30 Dungeon.

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A grain is relatively heavier to lift for an ant than a boulder is for an elephant. Does that
imply a grain is heavier than a boulder by definition?

Stupid.

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Originally Posted by Shura

I don't understand why some of you are bothered if some Lv50 helps his Lv25 ls mates/friends through the dungeons. With a Lv 50 in group, they won't be getting good sp/xp and as far is loot is concerned this is a lv 25 dungeon so i don't see any epic endgame items being obtained in there. If you want a challenging experience then you should go in with lv 25-30ppl and if others want to be lazy about it they can go in with lv50ppl but their actions does not effect you in anyway. People are exaggerating the issue for no reason at all, im pretty sure your world won't collapse if 3ppl take a Lv50 to go do the Lv25 dungeon, heck 99% of the time you won't even know about it.

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it doesnt matter if its epic endgame loot. lets say this dungeon gives epic loot by low chance, and decent loot by high chance. much like NMs. all the value of gear that level is lower if you have easy to obtain gear for that level.

"Hey, dont buy any gear, ill just jump on my 50 spend 14 min and get you a full gear set with an option for super hax gear that will be the best gear till level 36."

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Originally Posted by Richard

you have extremely low standards when it comes to gaming then. you may have more fun spending your time in Hello Kitty Online Adventure.

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ok i'm not sure how much more i can explain it. if i want to run through the r30 dungeon to see what is in it or to help a ls mate get something he needs then that is my business. this is an instanced dungeon and you will not even know i am there. i find helping other people and exploring fun.

I really wish these were capped. The vanilla CoP missions should be the gold standard of instanced dungeons. Those missions were challenging, but extremely enjoyable. I can only imagine how less enjoyable they would be if you could take level75 jobs through the Promys and such.

Removing the cap just makes the dungeon a filler area.

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Originally Posted by Richard

it's definitely not a troll it's a serious suggestion. And since when has responding to every single one of my comments with a troll made you look even the least bit intelligent?

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Sure it is. If it is truly a serious suggestion then I surmise that you have tried the game and can recommend it from personal experience. Good on ya! I also love you're "I'm not a troll, you're stupid!" rebuttal. You really contradicted me there!

I haven't trolled any of your posts. I have countered your opinions with my own.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the 30 dungeon isnt supposed to challenge 50s though
how hard is that to understand

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but why SHOULDN'T it be? Why should this game be watered down like the 10 other MMOs that have come out since FFXI and Vanilla WoW? Or at least why shouldn't there be an option to make EVERYTHING challenging?

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I will be satisfied by the challenge of the r50 Dungeon which will be harder, by definition, than the r30 Dungeon.

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To each his own.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

ok i'm not sure how much more i can explain it. if i want to run through the r30 dungeon to see what is in it or to help a ls mate get something he needs then that is my business. this is an instanced dungeon and you will not even know i am there. i find helping other people and exploring fun.

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I find challenging content fun. Why can't I have what I want too?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the 30 dungeon isnt supposed to challenge 50s though
how hard is that to understand

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It's not hard to understand. In fact, that is the reason for wanting a cap since we'd have TWO dungeons that are challenging for rank 50 players instead of just one.

Also because with a cap you wouldn't be able to twink you rank 30 sub-classes with uber raid gear.

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

...which in turn means that it is a very uneconomical way to spend your resources, at best.
They could have 2 dungeons that are challenging and fun for all players, now they have only
one that's challenging and fun for 50s.

Stupid.

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A r30 dungeon isn't hard for a r50 player, period. If I have to cap my own skills at r30, then it is a cosmetic challenge only.

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Originally Posted by Richard

but why SHOULDN'T it be? Why should this game be watered down like the 10 other MMOs that have come out side Vanilla WoW? Or at least why shouldn't there be an option to make EVERYTHING challenging?


To each his own.

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why shouldnt a r30 be allowed in a r50 dungeon?
its the same concept

the why doesnt matter

it is what it is

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

...which in turn means that it is a very uneconomical way to spend your resources, at best.
They could have 2 dungeons that are challenging and fun for all players, now they have only
one that's challenging and fun for 50s.

Stupid.

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They're building for an influx of PS3 players and returning PC players.
These players need content on the way to 50, and are economically more important as subscribers than the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by Physic

redoing AP isnt that bad for 60 minute content blocks that should theoretically be entertaining.

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It sure is if you plan to do it alot, probably alot of days for a few weeks after it releases.
I'm not feeling redoing AP to 30 and then to 50 for another dungeon and repeat every other day.

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Originally Posted by Richard

So you condone 1-2 Lv.50's blowing through Toto-Rak for 2-3 Lv.25's? It's things like this that destroy any semblance of a challenge in games anymore. You may as well be breastfeeding at 15 years old.

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It doesn't destroy the challenge unless you want it to destroy the challenge. If you don't want to be lead through the dungeon by someone level 50, don't get someone level 50 to join you, form a party of level 25's instead.

If someone ones wants to be hand-lead through the dungeon, what difference does it make to you?

Rich you do know that /pcmd oust and /pcmd leave exist right?

If any one does not want a r50 to run with them in toto rak then don't let it happen. its this simple, Hey bob could ya change your class to something a bit lower? no? Boot.

If i had every thing at 50 then i would not be looking at toto rak at all, I would be looking at the darkhold. If any thing substantial drops out of toto that is not completely and totally outclassed by darkhold drops then that will be the true failure.

I mean heck, I could go out and beat up kids for candy and pocket change and that might have been worth while when i was that age. But these days the reward is not worth the effort and its no challenge at all . its the same situation with the people who are r50 everything.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

ok i'm not sure how much more i can explain it. if i want to run through the r30 dungeon to see what is in it or to help a ls mate get something he needs then that is my business. this is an instanced dungeon and you will not even know i am there. i find helping other people and exploring fun.

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This isn't about whether you are there or not. This is about being rewarded for good loot even though you didn't even have to try hard because you steamrolled the dungeon with your rank 50.

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Originally Posted by Richard

but why SHOULDN'T it be? Why should this game be watered down like the 10 other MMOs that have come out side Vanilla WoW? Or at least why shouldn't there be an option to make EVERYTHING challenging?


To each his own.

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Agreed. I have yet to see a good reason to NOT cap the R30 dungeon at R30. They are clearly ok with requiring you to have a MINIMUM rank (which quite frankly is dumb, if I want to go in there as R15 the difficulty of the dungeon should act as its own 'rank requirement').

The rank requirements and lack of cap, as well as party member requirements (has to 4 and 8 exactly, wtf? so we are SoL if we have 7 members ready to go?) are completely asinine.

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A r30 dungeon isn't hard for a r50 player, period. If I have to cap my own skills at r30, then it is a cosmetic challenge only.

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So, in that vein, the Promathia missions were only "cosmetic challenges".
Dammit, do you even know what you are talking about?

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Originally Posted by Richard

I find challenging content fun. Why can't I have what I want too?

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if you get into the r30 dungeon as a r30 class it should be challenging and fun for you. if i go in with my r50 with someone from my ls that needs help that is fun for me. i can't tell you how many of my lower ranked ls friends i have helped by jumping on my r50 to go kill bardi or cactuar jack to get the piece of gear they wanted. the being able to help someone is just as much fun for me as the challenge is. i will do the r50 dungeon for the challenge and the r30 one to help others. to me both dungeons will be fun in their own aspects.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

why shouldnt a r30 be allowed in a r50 dungeon?
its the same concept

the why doesnt matter

it is what it is

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Because there has to be balance and optimization? What would a R30 possibly hope to achieve in a Dungeon with all 50+ mobs? There is a minimum cap of 45 for that very reason. The same reason anyone below R25 would not do well in a dungeon designed for R30's with all 30+ mobs.

you are getting a little bit off track from the original concept of this thread. They why DOES in fact matter because the what is, is defined by the why from the beginning. That is how good games are designed.

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

If someone ones wants to be hand-lead through the dungeon, what difference does it make to you?

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Because that person will get rewarded with good raid loot for doing absolutely nothing. If he wants to get hand-held, that's fine. Just don't give any raid gear rewards in that scenario.

You all aren't using the dev tags. I put one on the topic.
This very thing is why the people who say "wait until X is implemented before saying Y are wrong.
Now it is too late to level cap them.

I should have made a stink about it a month and a half ago and dragged people kicking and screaming through the topic.

Back then they could have changed it to the right decision.
Now they can't.

Now we can only hope Yoshida did this for a good reason and not because putting a level cap mechanic in it would have simply delayed the launch of the raid.

Hope is inferior to stopping the forseen when you're able.

Next time the devs mention they're working on something, you all need to make it very clear what you don't want them to do, especially if they are likely to do it.

It is your all's faults for raging at this. You should have made this quite clear that you wanted them capped back in march.

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Originally Posted by Griss

Rich you do know that /pcmd oust and /pcmd leave exist right?

If any one does not want a r50 to run with them in toto rak then don't let it happen. its this simple, Hey bob could ya change your class to something a bit lower? no? Boot.

If i had every thing at 50 then i would not be looking at toto rak at all, I would be looking at the darkhold. If any thing substantial drops out of toto that is not completely and totally outclassed by darkhold drops then that will be the true failure.

I mean heck, I could go out and beat up kids for candy and pocket change and that might have been worth while when i was that age. But these days the reward is not worth the effort and its no challenge at all . its the same situation with the people who are r50 everything.

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you miss the point that there are people who don't have jobs below the 30's and 40's anymore.

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

It doesn't destroy the challenge unless you want it to destroy the challenge. If you don't want to be lead through the dungeon by someone level 50, don't get someone level 50 to join you, form a party of level 25's instead.

If someone ones wants to be hand-lead through the dungeon, what difference does it make to you?

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you miss the point that there are people who don't have jobs below the 30's and 40's anymore.