AOE Toggle Needs to GO

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Every mage who doesn't suck should have very convenient alt macros.
One turns AOE on.
The other turns AOE off.
Consider them stances that the jobs have.

If you suck at the stances...don't use them.
Don't petition to take away a very good system just because you keep screwing up and fiddling around on the wrong one.

Some of us can turn it on and off at will, easily, like 2nd nature.

About the only thing they could do is that you could tap a spell once for single target and twice for AoE, but that would be prone to data failures.

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i dont believe it should ask if you want it AOE or not very every spell. it should be a mode/stance you can toggle off and on at any given time, not when you select a spell.
i want to just hit the number _ key and have the spell start casting.

again in my last post it should be like
charge-cast
charge-cast
*click* AOE ON
charge-cast
charge-cast
charge-cast
oh crap i better go single target now *click*
charge-cast
charge-cast

whats so wrong about that?
it cuts down on the monotony by a large margin and still have, literally, the same effect.
oh and didnt SE mention something about going to an instant something battle system? idk, it very much sounded like they planned on making spells 1 push buttons.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Consider them stances that the jobs have.

If you suck at the stances...don't use them.

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But it's not set up like a stance. Even the worst stance dances don't ask you at every turn if you still want to stay that way.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

i dont believe it should ask if you want it AOE or not very every spell. it should be a mode/stance you can toggle off and on at any given time, not when you select a spell.

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^This. That would be a stance, and something easier to live with.

Again, if they have to keep the toggle in, for the love of everything holy, please don't make it confirm at every spell.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

i want to just hit the number _ key and have the spell start casting.

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Exactly! I don't see why this can't be possible. Single target abilities like Spirit Dart and Radiance go off without an extra confirmation. If it's merely to keep the subtarget mechanic in, then give us the option of turning it off or find another way (target-of-target or focus frame). It's just not worth the hassle.

This may all change with the UI fixes. Maybe we will have a different button on game pads for AOE toggle which would be nice to get spells off faster. I believe the devs said that keyboards will have more custom settings so cross your fingers for the option to set it to a single key.

That pause is not to ask you if you want Toggle on.

It's so you can sub-target your spell.


For the 1000th time.

It serves a specific purpose for people engaged with the monster and can sub-target others around them. Go ahead and say its a Toggle prompt for the 300th time. It did the same thing in XI, I recall, if you had the monster targeted. The sub-target popped on you and you moved it where you needed it. You guys are going on and on about the extra "enter" like Mosshorn and his friends are *** you over it. (They're not, I promise).

Personally, I'd be happy if there were a Config option that allowed me to set the AOE toggle to "off" by default. I usually make mistakes when I forget that AOE is on or off; if AOE only happened when I hit the button, I wouldn't have to think about it. If this were a Config option, then it wouldn't mess things up for people who like the button the way it is.

Alternately, the AOE version of a spell could be triggered by hitting a button or key combination, such as a shoulder button + confirm.

I always thought it would make sense to have the option somewhere on the action bar to click a button ala Battle regimen to turn on offensive and defensive AOE.

I honestly don't think a sub-target system is really necessary, if the targetting system was better and it was easier to change targets it would be pointless.

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Originally Posted by Shai

That pause is not to ask you if you want Toggle on.

It's so you can sub-target your spell.


For the 1000th time.

It serves a specific purpose for people engaged with the monster and can sub-target others around them. Go ahead and say its a Toggle prompt for the 300th time. It did the same thing in XI, I recall, if you had the monster targeted. The sub-target popped on you and you moved it where you needed it. You guys are going on and on about the extra "enter" like Mosshorn and his friends are *** you over it. (They're not, I promise).

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you really thought we didnt get that fact? all were saying is we dislike it because its monotonous, and other games have already proved that a singe hit button for spells is more efficient and less monotonous..... so says billions of gamers so cram your 1000th time.

and no actually, i served as a healer for years and never dealt with anything like what your talking about. once i hit my macro my spell started casting so your freaking crazy.

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Originally Posted by Shai

That pause is not to ask you if you want Toggle on.

It's so you can sub-target your spell.


For the 1000th time.

It serves a specific purpose for people engaged with the monster and can sub-target others around them. Go ahead and say its a Toggle prompt for the 300th time. It did the same thing in XI, I recall, if you had the monster targeted. The sub-target popped on you and you moved it where you needed it. You guys are going on and on about the extra "enter" like Mosshorn and his friends are *** you over it. (They're not, I promise).

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So why are we even targetting mobs in the first place? Did I just decide to lock on to that one for fun and don't actually want to cast anything on it?

Mindless trolls on this forum don't know what a quality of life change is if it slapped them across the face.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

So why are we even targetting mobs in the first place? Did I just decide to lock on to that one for fun and don't actually want to cast anything on it?

Mindless trolls on this forum don't know what a quality of life change is if it slapped them across the face.

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THIS
switch your target before you cast your next spell if thats whats needed! this is all so your cursor automatically goes back to your main target? if so, how lazy!!! sacrifice that much unnecessary monotony for that?

geez still complaining about a system that works perfectly fine. i see everyone stating that instead of selecting spell then selecting the target then hitting enter is any different from selecting the target than selecting spell and hitting enter. you want it changed because you are not able to play the class properly. let me break it down the easy way.

the way it is.

1. select your spell from your menu.
2. you select your target.
3. OPTIONAL change from aoe on to off if needed. hardly ever does it need to be changed. maybe once every few fights.
4. hit enter

they way you want it.

1. unlock the item you have targeted.
2. select the new target.
3. select your spell.
4. hit enter.
5. target the original mob.

you just changed 3-4 steps into 5 steps and say you want things easier. i'm sorry but if you are half decent at being a mage this system is very efficient to only have to hit 1 button to change from aoe on to aoe off instead of having twice the number of spells to deal with.

let's use a controller i use at being efficient.

main mob is targeted. when i cast a spell i hit x to select spell and scroll to the target i want to cast on(if it is that target i do not have to scroll) and hit x again. wow that is a massive 2 button presses in most cases unless i have to change target and the mob we are fighting is still targeted. if i need to change to aoe it is x to select spell, r1 to turn on/off aoe, and x again to cast spell. so at the most i have to use 3 button presses.

ok the proposed change on controller.

i have to deselect the mob. scroll to the target i want to cast on. scroll through double the amount of spells. x to select the spell. unlock off that target. scroll back to the main mob since as a mage i need to keep dot's and debuffs on it.

that is alot of unlocking off the main mob when i should be just using the subtargeting systems that are already in place and i can keep an eye on my other responsibilities. you claim to want to be more efficient, but you are ruinng your overall efficiency in the process of selecting and deselecting the same targets multiple times instead of using the system that is in place.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

So why are we even targetting mobs in the first place? Did I just decide to lock on to that one for fun and don't actually want to cast anything on it?

Mindless trolls on this forum don't know what a quality of life change is if it slapped them across the face.

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as a mage in this game there is no dedicated healer. mages in this game in battle heal and buff party members, but they also use dot's or damage over time spells on the mob you are fighting as well as debuffs on the mob. if that mob is not targeted you do not see what is on the mob so you don't know what you need to cast on it. you target the mob you are fighting to see what spells are still "stuck" on the mob and what has come off and you need to recast.

in a party in the party list you can see the buffs or status effects on your party members, but no information on the mob you are engaged with. this is the reason to use the sub targeting system so you can actually do your job.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

1. unlock the item you have targeted.
2. select the new target.
3. select your spell.
4. hit enter.
5. target the original mob.

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Kinda seems like you're adding steps based on assumption to make it sound more complicated. Target lock is a stupid feature when you're fighting numerous enemies, so there's 1 step gone. In a good PC UI, it would go:

1. Click enemy
2. Hit spell to cast
3. Click new enemy and/or choose new spell

So that's 4 steps tops, 3 if you're not constantly switching enemies.

Sorry, it's less complicated for sure, which is why you don't see a FFXIV-style system in other games. FFXI is the only other game to use a similarly archaic controller-based system, and it's 9 years old.

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as a mage in this game there is no dedicated healer. mages in this game in battle heal and buff party members, but they also use dot's or damage over time spells on the mob you are fighting as well as debuffs on the mob. if that mob is not targeted you do not see what is on the mob so you don't know what you need to cast on it. you target the mob you are fighting to see what spells are still "stuck" on the mob and what has come off and you need to recast.

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That's one very specific situation, and it's probably not even going to be true for very long with the introduction of white mage for party play.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

5. With the elimination of the toggle, more "Final Fantasy"-esque spells can return. IE: Cura/Curaga/Fira/Firaga

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Not going to address the rest of your post since it's been handled ad nausea, but I wanted to point this out -

The definitions of those spells are highly variable. I don't mean to get all "WATS THE BEST FF GUYZ" but I liked the old "Cure III" system before FFVIII decided to change things for the sake of changing them (sound familiar?).

So, let's go with Cura/Curaga for the whole confusion thing first.

FFVIII - Cure II, Cure III
FFIX - Cure II, Cure III
FFX - Cure II, Cure III
FFXI - AOE charge-based Cure, AOE Cure II
FFXII - AOE Cure, Cure II
FFXIII - AOE Cure, Cure II (not that it matters since you need an eidolon to use Curaga)

Don't get me started on the changing of Protectra to Protectga from XI to XII.

I thought XI's naming scheme worked quite well myself, it'd have been nice if they stuck with it, and maybe instead of using Cura they had gone ahead with that Curasa concept name from FFXIII since it is a "special" cure.

Basically, my point is that they aren't really "FF-esque" unless by "FF-esque" you mean "Changes arbitrarily from version to version". So, in short, I wouldn't use that as a fallback point.

AOE discussions in another post.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

geez still complaining about a system that works perfectly fine. i see everyone stating that instead of selecting spell then selecting the target then hitting enter is any different from selecting the target than selecting spell and hitting enter. you want it changed because you are not able to play the class properly. let me break it down the easy way.

the way it is.

1. select your spell from your menu.
2. you select your target.
3. OPTIONAL change from aoe on to off if needed. hardly ever does it need to be changed. maybe once every few fights.
4. hit enter

they way you want it.

1. unlock the item you have targeted.
2. select the new target.
3. select your spell.
4. hit enter.
5. target the original mob.

you just changed 3-4 steps into 5 steps and say you want things easier. i'm sorry but if you are half decent at being a mage this system is very efficient to only have to hit 1 button to change from aoe on to aoe off instead of having twice the number of spells to deal with.

let's use a controller i use at being efficient.

main mob is targeted. when i cast a spell i hit x to select spell and scroll to the target i want to cast on(if it is that target i do not have to scroll) and hit x again. wow that is a massive 2 button presses in most cases unless i have to change target and the mob we are fighting is still targeted. if i need to change to aoe it is x to select spell, r1 to turn on/off aoe, and x again to cast spell. so at the most i have to use 3 button presses.

ok the proposed change on controller.

i have to deselect the mob. scroll to the target i want to cast on. scroll through double the amount of spells. x to select the spell. unlock off that target. scroll back to the main mob since as a mage i need to keep dot's and debuffs on it.

that is alot of unlocking off the main mob when i should be just using the subtargeting systems that are already in place and i can keep an eye on my other responsibilities. you claim to want to be more efficient, but you are ruinng your overall efficiency in the process of selecting and deselecting the same targets multiple times instead of using the system that is in place.



as a mage in this game there is no dedicated healer. mages in this game in battle heal and buff party members, but they also use dot's or damage over time spells on the mob you are fighting as well as debuffs on the mob. if that mob is not targeted you do not see what is on the mob so you don't know what you need to cast on it. you target the mob you are fighting to see what spells are still "stuck" on the mob and what has come off and you need to recast.

in a party in the party list you can see the buffs or status effects on your party members, but no information on the mob you are engaged with. this is the reason to use the sub targeting system so you can actually do your job.

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OMG WE DONT WANT TO HIT ENTER, WHERE DID YOU GET THAT WE WANT TO EVER HIT ENTER AT ALL?
the system is not fine, the WHOLE POINT is to
switch your AOE on/off mode
select your target
hit the number corrosponding to your spell
....
and thats it, and when necessary change your AOE to either off or on again.

no hitting enter, no sub targets, those are two steps that are not necessary.

and as far as AOE goes in the first place, in FFXI you had both aga spells (aoe) and regular ones, the only difference is they gave us a thousand action bars VIA the crappy macro system which accomodated all the different types of spells. why cant they do that here? we have three bars, why not 41.6 of them??

So, we need a few options, and then everyone can be happy.

1. AOE toggle always displayed (for DOM classes)
2. AOE toggle only displayed during target selection

and

1. Remember AOE setting globally
2. Remember AOE setting for each ability
3. Remember AOE setting for each ability independently for each job

I'd love to have "AOE toggle during casting" but I expect that's not possible because when you start the cast, the game has to be notifying the server at that time whether it's AOE or not so that it can do damage and aggro calculations accordingly. I haven't played enough to know if there are any mobs that aggro during action charges (IE - aggro as soon as you start charging an action instead of when it hits), but if that capability exists, then toggle-during-casting wouldn't work.

I'm glad XI and XIV use subtargeting. It was something that always bothered me about WOW. I suppose maybe you might want an option to disable subtargeting for efficiency. I just don't really see it myself, but everyone's different.

Hell, Blizzard's so much in favor of efficiency they even introduced an option so that you could opt for keypresses to trigger actions on key-down instead of waiting for key-release.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Kinda seems like you're adding steps based on assumption to make it sound more complicated. Target lock is a stupid feature when you're fighting numerous enemies, so there's 1 step gone. In a good PC UI, it would go:

1. Click enemy
2. Hit spell to cast
3. Click new enemy and/or choose new spell

So that's 4 steps tops, 3 if you're not constantly switching enemies.

Sorry, it's less complicated for sure, which is why you don't see a FFXIV-style system in other games. FFXI is the only other game to use a similarly archaic controller-based system, and it's 9 years old.



That's one very specific situation, and it's probably not even going to be true for very long with the introduction of white mage for party play.

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no as long as this game is on easy mode there will never be room for a dedicated healer in a high level party. most people in the higer groups would just prefer to add another mage hybrid that can do multiple things instead of wasting space with one. get over the fact that the game is easy and this system is easy, but you can't figure out how to use it.

as far as the hitting enter anytime you cast a spell you will have to hit a button whether it is the 1 key or enter button so it is the same amount of key presses. sub targets are necessary if you want to actually be a good mage. you need to have the mob targeted to do your job and see what status effects it has on it so you know what you need to do on it.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

OMG WE DONT WANT TO HIT ENTER, WHERE DID YOU GET THAT WE WANT TO EVER HIT ENTER AT ALL?
the system is not fine, the WHOLE POINT is to
switch your AOE on/off mode
select your target
hit the number corrosponding to your spell
....
and thats it, and when necessary change your AOE to either off or on again.

no hitting enter, no sub targets, those are two steps that are not necessary.

and as far as AOE goes in the first place, in FFXI you had both aga spells (aoe) and regular ones, the only difference is they gave us a thousand action bars VIA the crappy macro system which accomodated all the different types of spells. why cant they do that here? we have three bars, why not 41.6 of them??

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no the system is fine. it is the quality of some of the people that cannot figure out the system and do their jobs that is the issue. i've been sitting here reading all day of how people cannot do their job and aoe mobs when they meant to single hit them. that is because they messed up not because the system messed up. if it were you select aoe off and it casts on or if you used subtarget and it hit something else that would be an issue with the system. to say you meant single but forgot you had aoe on is user error not the game design.

can you explain how you plan to hit the number corresponding to a spell on a game that is being built for a controller? remember this game is being built with the ps3 core audience as it's main target. it may be a good idea to go out and spend 10$ to get a usb controller as it is much much easier to use than the keyboard and mouse. they are not going to change the system that will make things more inconvenient on the ps3 players. they are the only thing that will keep this game going so everything is being put into making it a success.

As a Mage main (50THM) I personally really don't see the huge issue with this.
I have all relevant spells macro'd with /aoe on and /aoe off as appropriate. If I have to use an offensive spell that I would usually have set as single target then I simply select my /aoe on version for it (e.g. I have some nuking spells and Sleep set to /aoe on and /aoe off)- this tends to cover all situations.

I haven't experienced terrible lag on the macros and other than there not being enough of them or enough lines within them, they work fine at the moment for spell casting in my opinion.

Select Mob/Ally > Select spell macro > Press Enter

If they took away the toggle on/off for AoE and introduced for example curaga, protectra etc as well as their single target counterparts then it wouldn't really make a difference in using the macros for casting.
They would have to give players a huge amount of action points in order to set them though, and the action bars would be 4 or 5 lines at rank 50- I have to say that I'm not particularly keen on this as there are still some times when I have to select non-macro'd spells/abilities that are not used as often from the bar and trying to find them quickly in battle would possibly be more difficult.

Just my opinion *waits to get shot down in flames*.

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Originally Posted by Shika

Just my opinion *waits to get shot down in flames*.

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It's all valid, I don't use my macros for this as that space is mostly devoted to skill/equipment sets for all the classes, but I don't think it's overly burdensome to play a caster now. You just have to do it *well*. I survived perfectly fine in XI, and I'd like to see some of those same aspects repeated in XIV that I enjoyed in XI. I remember one day when I played without a controller and had no saved macros and did healing in Crawler's Nest for three hours manually typing out '/ma "Cure III" <p3>'. Frustrating as hell and frantic, but I made it work.

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Originally Posted by Shika

As a Mage main (50THM) I personally really don't see the huge issue with this.
I have all relevant spells macro'd with /aoe on and /aoe off as appropriate. If I have to use an offensive spell that I would usually have set as single target then I simply select my /aoe on version for it (e.g. I have some nuking spells and Sleep set to /aoe on and /aoe off)- this tends to cover all situations.

I haven't experienced terrible lag on the macros and other than there not being enough of them or enough lines within them, they work fine at the moment for spell casting in my opinion.

Select Mob/Ally > Select spell macro > Press Enter

If they took away the toggle on/off for AoE and introduced for example curaga, protectra etc as well as their single target counterparts then it wouldn't really make a difference in using the macros for casting.
They would have to give players a huge amount of action points in order to set them though, and the action bars would be 4 or 5 lines at rank 50- I have to say that I'm not particularly keen on this as there are still some times when I have to select non-macro'd spells/abilities that are not used as often from the bar and trying to find them quickly in battle would possibly be more difficult.

Just my opinion *waits to get shot down in flames*.

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i know exactly what you mean with my thm and con at 50 i have had no issues with it either. i'll be honest i rarely use macros, but they work well when i do use them. i have a few macros setup for certain types of mobs and for buffs, but if you learn your job and know what range the spells have you know when you need to turn aoe on and off. that 4 or 5 lines of spells would be horrible for me since i do rarely use macros and all it would do would be to force me to use them more, but their argument was macros are just work arounds for the problem. wouldn't this just make more of a system to be worked around? just like everything else so far i have taken the time to adjust and i would do that also if needed, but the way it is not is fine and doesn't need to be changed.

it's part of learning to play any new game to me though. i expect each game i play to be different. if i didn't then why would i have left the last one? the point is each game is different and people need to actually take the time to figure out how to use the system in place. if they don't want to learn the new system they should go back to their old game because they will never be happy. if the system was bad i'd agree because i can tell you there are alot of things about this game i pure hate, but this simple aoe toggle and sub targeting system is one of the only decent things that were used.

First of all I don't care about how controllers function, I imagine alot of players that want improved KB/M support are the same way. Outside of controllers there isn't much need for target locking in the first place.

The issue that alot don't understand is that it's not intuitive or optimal to ever need to take your hand off the mouse to cast a spell let alone anything else. It's called Keyboard and Mouse for a reason. Trying clicking on your target to confirm a target to see how much of a pain in the rear it is.

Blizzard doesn't want the interface getting in the way of actually playing the game, something alot of developers downright fail at. I miss my 3 stack of bars with all of the buttons having ctrl/alt/shift bindings rather than clunky page switching. Every ability I could want 1 button press away.

This probably has already been said, but what if you could assign a skill to your action bar and when you select that skill a sub menu with the single target spell and AOE spell pops up, you select your skill, then your target and that's it!

Ex.
Conjurer learns Cure at level 4, Cure skill is assigned to action bar.
At level 12, Conjurer learns Curaga(with cast time 4 and recast time 10), now the cure skill has access to the normal cure and aoe cure.

Now all Cure spells wouldn't be grouped in this one cure skill, obviously when you level up you would replace Cure I with Cure II and so forth.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

First of all I don't care about how controllers function, I imagine alot of players that want improved KB/M support are the same way. Outside of controllers there isn't much need for target locking in the first place.

The issue that alot don't understand is that it's not intuitive or optimal to ever need to take your hand off the mouse to cast a spell let alone anything else. It's called Keyboard and Mouse for a reason. Trying clicking on your target to confirm a target to see how much of a pain in the rear it is.

Blizzard doesn't want the interface getting in the way of actually playing the game, something alot of developers downright fail at. I miss my 3 stack of bars with all of the buttons having ctrl/alt/shift bindings rather than clunky page switching. Every ability I could want 1 button press away.

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good because i am sure the ps3 players wouldn't care how your kb/m works either. i was stating a fact that the controller is easier to use. i use the kb/m sometimes, but also use the controller at times. yes, the controller is easier, but there are battles in which you want to communicate with your party. if i am in voice chat i am always using a controller.

btw i have used the mouse to click the target and it is not hard at all. it's not hard to hit tab or f9 to change the mobs and hit enter with your off mouse hand. i just stated it was easier using a controller not saying the kb/m was hard by any stretch. i mean i understand how hard it is to target mobs with your miner for spell casting, but as a mage it is not very difficult at all.

I use a controller, but have had instances where my battery ran out of charge rather inconveniently half way into a fight. On those occasions I've just used the keyboard tabbing (or Mouse) to select my target, CTRL or ALT for my macro rows, select macro, hit enter. It is no different than select target with controller, hold down left or right trigger (CTRL or ALT) to bring up macros, select macro, hit enter. ? The UI is clunky yes, but using macros with either keyboard/mouse or controller is not really any different in my opinion.

Bring back my AGAS! (blizzaga, firaga, ect) i hate the toggle AoE system!

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

This probably has already been said, but what if you could assign a skill to your action bar and when you select that skill a sub menu with the single target spell and AOE spell pops up, you select your skill, then your target and that's it!

Ex.
Conjurer learns Cure at level 4, Cure skill is assigned to action bar.
At level 12, Conjurer learns Curaga(with cast time 4 and recast time 10), now the cure skill has access to the normal cure and aoe cure.

Now all Cure spells wouldn't be grouped in this one cure skill, obviously when you level up you would replace Cure I with Cure II and so forth.

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i'd be happy for the kb/m users to have a constant icon showing whether aoe is on of off that way they could tell in advance if they needed to change it, but overall the system is pretty good the way it is. the last thing a high level mage needs is another pop up menu to slow the casting process down. the way aoe is now is it is actually part of the sub targeting menu and it does not need to be changed unless it is on the incorrect one. in other words if it is correct it is not used and skipped in that process so it does not bet involved at all. the only time it needs to be touched is the few occasions in which it needs to be changed.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i'd be happy for the kb/m users to have a constant icon showing whether aoe is on of off that way they could tell in advance if they needed to change it, but overall the system is pretty good the way it is. the last thing a high level mage needs is another pop up menu to slow the casting process down. the way aoe is now is it is actually part of the sub targeting menu and it does not need to be changed unless it is on the incorrect one. in other words if it is correct it is not used and skipped in that process so it does not bet involved at all. the only time it needs to be touched is the few occasions in which it needs to be changed.

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Fair enough, an AOE icon would be good too. Though I think the submenu idea would be helpful for gamepad users. There really should be two separate UIs.

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Originally Posted by Shika

I use a controller, but have had instances where my battery ran out of charge rather inconveniently half way into a fight. On those occasions I've just used the keyboard tabbing (or Mouse) to select my target, CTRL or ALT for my macro rows, select macro, hit enter. It is no different than select target with controller, hold down left or right trigger (CTRL or ALT) to bring up macros, select macro, hit enter. ? The UI is clunky yes, but using macros with either keyboard/mouse or controller is not really any different in my opinion.

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no i was just using the controller for the ease of changing from aoe on to aoe off for those with that specific complaint. my emote button is my r1 so it is very easy and convenient to hit that one button. to me it just seems to be easier than z or clicking the button. that is just a personal preference though and not saying either of the methods is hard.

i just have to remember with my controller hit the spell then hit emote button not hit emote without a spell chosen first lol. i just love changing aoe toggle and starting a br, but that is my user error not the game itself.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Fair enough, an AOE icon would be good too. Though I think the submenu idea would be helpful for gamepad users. There really should be two separate UIs.

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not disagreeing with you too much but as i use one it is only a single button on the controller to change from aoe on to off on there as well. you do not have to reach up to grab the mouse and click it. you select your spell and then hit the button during subtargeting(my controller is r1) and then confirm the spell once it is targeted. if you use a gamepad and didn't know whatever button you use to call your emotes has multiple uses.

if not in battle it calls emotes. if in battle and you are joining a battle regimen you hover over the spell/ability and hit it and it stacks into battle regimen. if you select a spell and are in submenu screen it also changes your aoe from off to on status. if you did know this i apologize, but i have seen alot recently that didn't know and was just tryin to be helpful.

@ Darkstar- I was referring to the post by Tiraelina ^^
I personally use a 360 controller and that has triangle as the toggle for /aoe on or off. The triggers are just personally how I have my controller set up for the macro rows (CTRL and ALT). I also have my back button as my push to talk for vent :)

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

no i was just using the controller for the ease of changing from aoe on to aoe off for those with that specific complaint. my emote button is my r1 so it is very easy and convenient to hit that one button. to me it just seems to be easier than z or clicking the button. that is just a personal preference though and not saying either of the methods is hard.

i just have to remember with my controller hit the spell then hit emote button not hit emote without a spell chosen first lol. i just love changing aoe toggle and starting a br, but that is my user error not the game itself.



not disagreeing with you too much but as i use one it is only a single button on the controller to change from aoe on to off on there as well. you do not have to reach up to grab the mouse and click it. you select your spell and then hit the button during subtargeting(my controller is r1) and then confirm the spell once it is targeted. if you use a gamepad and didn't know whatever button you use to call your emotes has multiple uses.

if not in battle it calls emotes. if in battle and you are joining a battle regimen you hover over the spell/ability and hit it and it stacks into battle regimen. if you select a spell and are in submenu screen it also changes your aoe from off to on status. if you did know this i apologize, but i have seen alot recently that didn't know and was just tryin to be helpful.

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Interesting I didn't know that, I've always used a macro lol. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shika

@ Darkstar- I was referring to the post by Tiraelina ^^
I personally use a 360 controller and that has triangle as the toggle for /aoe on or off. The triggers are just personally how I have my controller set up for the macro rows (CTRL and ALT). I also have my back button as my push to talk for vent :)

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oops my apologies.

yeah i have my r1 for emotes, r2 for macros, start for menu(start br), x for confirm/select, triangle for deselect, l2 for my push to talk in vent. mine is one of the playstation looking controllers. i tried to set my controller up for more what i am accustomed to with old game setups as much as possible so it felt a little more familiar to me. i understand everyone has their own preferences though and i am glad you found a configuration you feel comfortable with. i know it took me quite a while to get mine setup the way i wanted to.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Interesting I didn't know that, I've always used a macro lol. Thanks.

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this is one of the biggest complaints i have. they should have an instruction manual on what buttong controls what commands on both keybaord and controller. i only found out about the emotes recently(thanks i believe was due to TheVids) pointed out using emotes stacks in battle regimen and if you started or ended you could start the regimen with whatever button you use to open your menu while not in battle.

for me

r1 i can stack into battle regimens, change aoe toggle, and call my emotes.
start opens menu's and starts battle regimens.

these are simple things that if we had the info on would make like alot easier.

AoE toggle is perfectly fine. Select skill > Emote button or Z > confirm target. It's seriously THAT easy to toggle AoE on or off while casting. You have to hit ONE extra button. ONE. Are people seriously complaining about having to hit ONE extra button occasionally? Bunch of whiners, this community continually makes me sick.

Extra buttons or not, the concept of having all spells AoE-able at no extra MP or REAL enmity cost makes DoM stupid.

But that's not the purpose of this thread. The OP wants AoE toggle gone and a whole range of AoE spells added.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Extra buttons or not, the concept of having all spells AoE-able at no extra MP or REAL enmity cost makes DoM stupid.

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With the introduction of Auto Attack and all the work they will be doing to emnity generation formulas etc (plus the visible display for hate they are planning on putting in) they may well address this further.

When I first started as THM I did wonder why protect and /aoe protect did not have a different MP cost, so I wouldn't really care if they did put this mechanic in.

Anyway, as stated.. that is slightly off topic ^^

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this in the 24pages but im not reading it all :p
i think the toggle AOE would be perfect if u were able to confirm which type of AOE u want to do when u begin the first part of the spell meaning after u confirm which spell u want to do the AOE icon shows up now within this area of the menu u should be able to press left or right on your keyboard to toggle on off befor u start the spell that in my eye would be perfect for casters though that extra menu may be annoying you can't say its not a good idea ;)

You all realize that this toggle is Emote on the Controller and Z on the keyboard right? I mean, it doesn't get much easier than that..

Dont know if sayd befour but they need to make it so you can move it , Z is just crap
there are ppl in the world that use azerty type keyboards and more around with zqsd
so now i cant put my keyboards like i want

The issues of whether or not Toggle is a problem, and whether or not AoE should cost more MP are two separate issues.

Toggle is intuitive, and it makes sense. It's one of the few things that has gone right with this UI.

-aga spells are not always AoE in FF, they've only been used exclusively as AoE in XI. Traditionally Fire, Fira, and Firaga are the three different strengths of the same spell, and have little to do with number of mobs attacked (in many of the FFs you can use AoE with every spell).

XI's system wasted macro space, and in XIV it would waste skill slot space.

This thread has been done before, and it basically came down to the same argument, which was just a front for the OP's user error. Just because YOU have trouble hitting one button before you cast a spell, doesn't mean the system is broken. I don't blame the UI when I accidentally hit cure instead of cure II, I just deal with it.

Long post short, introducing AoE spells only serves to complicate a streamlined and intuitive system.

I want it removed.

Trying to hit the AoE button with your mouse is annoying (for a cura) only to hit it again for your next non-AoE magic.
Or why not allow us to toggle it with a right mouse click when it displays?
Why can't I switch from Z to some other key? Why isn't it even displayed in the menu?

The only time it's not annoying me (quite the opposite, actually) is when I'm playing with a controller.
But then again, I can't chat. Argh! WHY has every control scheme at least ONE mayor flaw? ; ;
And don't get my started on keyboard only controls. *sigh*

I know, battle controls are going to be revamped, but seriously..

My wishes: :rolleyes:

-Make keyboard + mouse work.

-Allow controller users to use a controller keyboard(!). Are you really expecting casuals to play with a keyboard (on a console)? *lol*

-Don't force me to click on that tiiiiiny arrow to go from action bar #1 to #2 or #3. I know the arrow keys can do that. But why can't I hover over it with my cursor and use the mouse wheel?

Enough negativity now! ;) But as much as I want to enjoy the game, I can't! :(
It starts with the controls and ends with the non-existing content.

Regards,
your faithful Lalafell!

Maybe we'll all laugh about in two to four months! :D

P.S.: New dungeons, yay!

EDIT: Also, AoE spells should cost more MP! Talking about a lack of strategy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcell

AoE toggle is perfectly fine. Select skill > Emote button or Z > confirm target. It's seriously THAT easy to toggle AoE on or off while casting. You have to hit ONE extra button. ONE. Are people seriously complaining about having to hit ONE extra button occasionally? Bunch of whiners, this community continually makes me sick.

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If you need 3 steps to cast a spell, that's not fine

because in other MMOs they only need 1 button