Further proof that the market wards are a festival of failure.

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Originally Posted by Seif

You specifically might like the wards but the FACT remains that most items are not on sale there because so many don't use them at all.

If most people don't use the MW it's as good as broken economy can be.

Whether you personally like MW or not doesn't really matter as so many have stopped using them completely because they're used to quick and easy systems like the AH.

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Then why are they full? and don't say its because of inactive people because they crash and dump retainers from time to time

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

I've had success and failure. It seems to be mostly based on what I'm selling. If I'm selling crafting materials, it could go either way. With class weapons/tools, they sell more often than not so long as I put them at a reasonable price. Repair requests are always filled, without fail, so long as I leave the retainer there for at least 8 hours.

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MW is among the worst in any game I've ever played. The only games that are worse are ones where I have to spam chat to sell my items, like Diablo 2 or Runescape. Waiting 8 hours for a repair or a week for a sale is straight up BS.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Then why are they full? and don't say its because of inactive people because they crash and dump retainers from time to time

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They're full because they have a pathetically low limit on how many retainers can be put in a zone, thanks to hardware limitations. That's why it's a bad system.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

They're full because they have a pathetically low limit on how many retainers can be put in a zone, thanks to hardware limitations. That's why it's a bad system.

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This is one of the reasons I find the MW odd. There are all sorts of ways to segment a zone, especially visually that could essentially remove the barrier on how many retainers can be in a zone. Instead, we've got them all clusters together almost ensuring certain issues to crop up.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

They're full because they have a pathetically low limit on how many retainers can be put in a zone, thanks to hardware limitations. That's why it's a bad system.

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But it is an indication that people are indeed using them

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Originally Posted by normalforce

This is one of the reasons I find the MW odd. There are all sorts of ways to segment a zone, especially visually that could essentially remove the barrier on how many retainers can be in a zone. Instead, we've got them all clusters together almost ensuring certain issues to crop up.

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At the end of the day though, it doesn't really matter how they segment or rearrange a zone. All of that processing still has to be done by the machine. If you remember back when the game was fresh, it had countless lag problems because there weren't enough machines to handle all the characters, zones, and AI mobs in the zones. They restructured server infrastructure by adding more machines and breaking up regions of each zone so that a different machine handles the processing.

The difference between one of those machines and a machine that only does simple queries and information transfer is that the former handles hundreds of concurrent users while the latter handles tens of thousands. THAT'S why there's retainer limits in a ward, THAT'S why they kept going down when they were busy, and THAT'S why all the retainers have to be separated into zones instead of lumping them all together in one large zone.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

But it is an indication that people are indeed using them

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Out of necessity, yes. Just because it's the only trading system available doesn't mean that people want it, and just because it's functional doesn't mean it's good.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

But it is an indication that people are indeed using them

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People use a bad system because they have to, not because they want to.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Then why are they full? and don't say its because of inactive people because they crash and dump retainers from time to time

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I do not play ffxiv atm all i do is check my retainers and put them back in the dumb zone after a crash so it is from inactive players, partly.
The reason I do this is hoping the game may be playable one day, so i am just hoardng all the gil i can. =/

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

People use a bad system because they have to, not because they want to.

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by that same standard you can say the only reason people use AHs in other games is "cuz they have to" even if they hate it

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

by that same standard you can say the only reason people use AHs in other games is "cuz they have to" even if they hate it

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FFXI had both an AH and a Bazaar system, yet people massively preferred AH and Bazaar was only used on items that couldn't be put on AH.
Aion has both an AH and a Bazaar system, yet people barely use the bazaar.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

by that same standard you can say the only reason people use AHs in other games is "cuz they have to" even if they hate it

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The difference is that those games don't have the majority of its reviews as well as a large portion of its playerbase condemning that system and quitting the game because of it.

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Originally Posted by Dynamis

I just spent the better part of two days mining up mats to sell and make myself a little gil. Since SE's refusal to implement an auction house I'm force to use their market ward system. No my bazzar is not an option. Hoping someone that needs the item I'm selling just happens to check my bazzar? Are you kidding?

Unfortunately, there is not one inch of free realistate in the masons ward to summon my retainer. My only option now is to pay a huge tax on my sales by summoning my retainer in another ward.

If there is no room to summon a retainer now in the correct ward, what is it going to be like when/if they release a PS3 version of the game?

By representing every sale point in the game with a character, SE has doomed this system to failure. If you don't believe that, go visit your Battlecraft ward.

I know there are some people that will defend the market wards till the end of time but the majority of the players in this game wish it would just go away. I'm one of them.

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thats what happens when you ask for your retainers to stay in wards and being to lazy to put them back in every day. lol

Get rid of retainers and market wards please, and implement the AH and Mog House and mail delivery system.
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Running around back and forth becomes as redundant as running around with low anima, or doing the same leves over and over and over and over and over and over AND OVER.
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It's almost as if the developers implement ideas but don't test them out before releasing them. Some of these developers need to play the game for themselves for month to test the FUN/ENTERTAINMENT FACTOR in some of these outlandish ideas.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

But it is an indication that people are indeed using them

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Because what other choice do we have?

the fact still remains that even if the wards were any-good could you imagine them if 6 million people played this game. I dont play wow but that the number of players they claim to have.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

the fact still remains that even if the wards were any-good could you imagine them if 6 million people played this game. I dont play wow but that the number of players they claim to have.

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Well it isn't like all WoW players play on the same server. I'm not to sure a game server could even possibly handle that many people. I think it would blow up or eat an intern or something.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Well it isn't like all WoW players play on the same server. I'm not to sure a game server could even possibly handle that many people. I think it would blow up or eat an intern or something.

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How about something more realistic? 6000 players on a server.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

How about something more realistic? 6000 players on a server.

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Yeah, all the wards in all the cities in game at the moment couldn't handle that many players' retainers. . .

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

In Patch 1.18, we will be increasing the max number of retainers that can be set up within each area. However, by simply increasing the number of allowable retainers, the fact remains that it could again reach the capacity limit. Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup.

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I really hope that we can hire a third retainer when 1.18 rolls around. Gods know I need the extra inventory space.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Yeah, all the wards in all the cities in game at the moment couldn't handle that many players' retainers. . .

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actualy, it could handle that many(thats about the capacity right now)

but we all know whatl happen
everyone will complain theres no more room in uldah and refuse to use grid and LL

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

actualy, it could handle that many(thats about the capacity right now)

but we all know whatl happen
everyone will complain theres no more room in uldah and refuse to use grid and LL

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Highly doubt that all of the MW combined can take 12,000 retainers when just Ul'dah is buckling under ~1000 retainers.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Highly doubt that all of the MW combined can take 12,000 retainers when just Ul'dah is buckling under ~1000 retainers.

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im talking about capacity, how many can fit into the wards(you can fit about 4000 per city if all the wards are maxed out)
im not talking about stability of the wards

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

If thats the case its not very many or these forums wouldnt be so full

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It's funny because I see the same 15 names over and over bashing it, starting new threads, bashing new threads, fueling new fires, keeping this bumped.

argumentum ad nauseam is fueling the AH debate. Market Wards work fine. They haven't even crashed on my server (or if they have, my retainer has bounced back) in 4 weeks. It was a complain many had. Now it's "there's no room!" Well, wah! That was good for the crashes, then, now there's no crashes and there's a new "WAH" argument.

It's pretty ridiculous. It will be faster & easier for them to just fix the broken system than make an entirely new one or put that piece of crap system in XI into XIV. That system (btw) also crashed regularly and was full of lag. It also bounced out your junk if it didn't sell fast enough. I like the Market Wards because I feel more like I'm a merchant. I physically move from vendor to vendor and price match and ... whatever it's all been said before. I like Market Wards as much as many of you hate it. All that matters (in my humble opinion) is those micro-transactions SE wants to cash in on. I challenge SE to prove me wrong on that statement.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

im talking about capacity, how many can fit into the wards(you can fit about 4000 per city if all the wards are maxed out)
im not talking about stability of the wards

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Uh.

What's the point of having this "capacity" if the wards crash long before you even get there?

Just gonna throw my 2 gil into the mix.

Would be fine with SE keeping and improving the wards if....
- Show the specifics of an item, right now we have to guess based usually on price if an item is nq +1 +2 +3 etc...
- Update the search faster, so many times i search for an item and go to the npc that has it only to find out it is already sold(seems to take an hour in some cases to refresh).
- Give players the option to see past the cheapest 20 results..... often i search for things that have more than 20 entries and usually i'm looking for HQ stuff, so basically search limited results sorta cuts that off...

I was just reminicing about FF11 with LS members and thought:

1. In FF11 there was an AH that everyone and anyone could use
2. For linkshells looking to sell the bigger drops they camped in Rolanberry Mart outside Jeuno (primarily to avoid tax)

How about in FF14 if:
1. The current market wards (where individauls have retainers) should be shifted off to a Auction House ala FF11

2. This would free up the market wards for use by Linkshell Retainers only. Of course this would need Linkshell Banks/Storage and Administration duties implemented (I was thinking somewhat like other MMOs that have done similar things like this for years, e.g. Darkfall Online - and that online game is made by a true indie developer not a massive corporation like SE). It would also mean certain materials and gear couldnt be put on the Auction House. This would garner interest in people actually using the market wards beyond the AH.

3. I know in FF11 endgame shells hire out their services as mercenaries of sorts. For example some linkshells charged gil for HNM drops or gil to get salvage drops etc. If Market Wards were limited to Linkshell Retainers then perhaps there can be a Linkshell Taskboard or Request Taskboard. Individuals can seek out help for missions or NMs or Linkshells can advertise their services and be contacted. This can all take place in game without independent forums. It can also be used generally to build up player run events outside of battles/NMs.

Just a rough idea. Am sure people can scrutinize or add to it further

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Originally Posted by Altanas

I was just reminicing about FF11 with LS members and thought:

1. In FF11 there was an AH that everyone and anyone could use
2. For linkshells looking to sell the bigger drops they camped in Rolanberry Mart outside Jeuno (primarily to avoid tax)

How about in FF14 if:
1. The current market wards (where individauls have retainers) should be shifted off to a Auction House ala FF11

2. This would free up the market wards for use by Linkshell Retainers only. Of course this would need Linkshell Banks/Storage and Administration duties implemented (I was thinking somewhat like other MMOs that have done similar things like this for years, e.g. Darkfall Online - and that online game is made by a true indie developer not a massive corporation like SE). It would also mean certain materials and gear couldnt be put on the Auction House. This would garner interest in people actually using the market wards beyond the AH.

3. I know in FF11 endgame shells hire out their services as mercenaries of sorts. For example some linkshells charged gil for HNM drops or gil to get salvage drops etc. If Market Wards were limited to Linkshell Retainers then perhaps there can be a Linkshell Taskboard or Request Taskboard. Individuals can seek out help for missions or NMs or Linkshells can advertise their services and be contacted. This can all take place in game without independent forums. It can also be used generally to build up player run events outside of battles/NMs.

Just a rough idea. Am sure people can scrutinize or add to it further

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I would be tickled pink if they added linkshell retainers, banks and/or storage. But that probably involves its own set of headaches and issues.

And that taskboard idea would be great! I had flashbacks to FFXII — a good thing, trust me — but taskboards would be a more organized way for players to seek items. The MW/AH are all well and good, but they're not quite designed for seeking items or repairs, or straight up trades. That is, unless I haven't paid attention that well to the item search counter.

Of course, the MW/AH could be designed to handle these types of transactions better, like with a taskboard.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

actualy, it could handle that many(thats about the capacity right now)

but we all know whatl happen
everyone will complain theres no more room in uldah and refuse to use grid and LL

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200 (retainers per ward) x 19 (wards per city) x 3 (number of cities) = 11,400 retainers supportable, currently, before they adjust the cap. As stated (and it looks like you even agree), the wards would crash long before getting to this number, and it's still 600 retainers shy of the 12,000 you think they can support.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

200 (retainers per ward) x 19 (wards per city) x 3 (number of cities) = 11,400 retainers supportable, currently, before they adjust the cap. As stated (and it looks like you even agree), the wards would crash long before getting to this number, and it's still 600 retainers shy of the 12,000 you think they can support.

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600 is close enough
and as said, before they raise it
they are also working out the stability issues


but the main problem again as i said before, people will ALL want to go to a single city and they will complain to no end that that specific city is full, and be too stubborn to even start to consider the other cities as an option cuz thats unthinkable

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

600 is close enough
and as said, before they raise it
they are also working out the stability issues


but the main problem again as i said before, people will ALL want to go to a single city and they will complain to no end that that specific city is full, and be too stubborn to even start to consider the other cities as an option cuz thats unthinkable

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Locking 300 people out of the primary economy is "close enough"? I'm so glad you're not in charge of this game, because holy ****. . .

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Locking 300 people out of the primary economy is "close enough"? I'm so glad you're not in charge of this game, because holy ****. . .

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they wont be locked out though
they are raising the capacity

problem solved

why talk about what "may be" in terms of numbers with "what is now" when "what is now" will not be so when the "may be" happens

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

they wont be locked out though
they are raising the capacity

problem solved

why talk about what "may be" in terms of numbers with "what is now" when "what is now" will not be so when the "may be" happens

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Okay, but you still haven't addressed the stability issues. Even if they raise the cap by 20 per ward, the wards are still going to crash when they get near full.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Okay, but you still haven't addressed the stability issues. Even if they raise the cap by 20 per ward, the wards are still going to crash when they get near full.

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i dont have to address it

SE does

and they are, if you havent noticed

Yes, I'm going to be waiting with bated breath to find out how they're going to improve stability while simultaneously increasing stress. . .

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Yes, I'm going to be waiting with bated breath to find out how they're going to improve stability while simultaneously increasing stress. . .

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well on besaid i havent seen a crash in like 3 weeks now
and they implemented some stiff in 1.17c to address this

time will tell how it holds out, and im sure if the problems persist they will continue to add more stuff to try and stabilize it

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Well it isn't like all WoW players play on the same server. I'm not to sure a game server could even possibly handle that many people. I think it would blow up or eat an intern or something.

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I know they have more than one server. But my point is the wards are maxed put now and the servers need at least four times as many players for the game economy to flourish. I couldn't imagine going through five times as many retainers even if they could make it stable. And even more than that if we each get three retainers

Also they just need to realize how stupid 15,000 retainers is gonna look.

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Originally Posted by twinkles

Just gonna throw my 2 gil into the mix.

Would be fine with SE keeping and improving the wards if....
- Show the specifics of an item, right now we have to guess based usually on price if an item is nq +1 +2 +3 etc...
- Update the search faster, so many times i search for an item and go to the npc that has it only to find out it is already sold(seems to take an hour in some cases to refresh).
- Give players the option to see past the cheapest 20 results..... often i search for things that have more than 20 entries and usually i'm looking for HQ stuff, so basically search limited results sorta cuts that off...

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Hi Twinkles,

I think you summed up my feelings on what to do to make the current Market Wards more workable. They work fine for me, but there will be problems (more below) as server population increases. But to echo your sentiments:

• Ability to see HQ Items (+1, +2, +3) in Search - Good news is that one of the Community Reps already confirmed this is on the way. Excellent. :)
• Seeing more than the Cheapest 20 Items - Like you, I usually look for HQ items, so many of the categories I search for has far more than 20 Slots being sold, which means I can't see anything beyond #20.
• And the Faster Refresh on Search Results - This one's more minor (it only happened to me once), but I can imagine it getting worse with more people playing.

The above would make the current Market Wards be really useful for me (even now it's loads better than Day 1 of this game).

But as some have brought up, I do worry about increases to Retainers and # of Players. The Battle Ward is by far the worst right now (the most popular, packed wall-to-wall with Retainers). I can't imagine how bad it would be if they increased the limit of Retainers everyone gets; and when we have a healthy # of Players after SE straightens this game out (and when PS3 launches).

I like aspects of the Market Wards of going through a "bazaar / marketplace"-type feel, but at the same time, in the busier areas it's so flooded that you only see small area being drawn in front of you anyways.

Whatever the solution, I just hope SE puts in some measures in place to monitor potential Unfair Market Practices / "Bullying" in the Market, via RMT / Gil Selling Corps (in XI they could lowball some item / resource, and drive out the competition, then raise the price to astronomical figures after everyone else gave up / moved to another item to sell).

One suggestion for the above that I had was for SE to hire some GMs that were basically like the Square-Enix version of the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission) watching over Anti-Competitive Practices and Monopolies. It sounds crazy, but there should be something in place to monitor this.

We'll see how SE handles the coming months.

The market wards were/are a nice idea for people to sell some of their stuff but the idea that it would replace or work the same as an actual Auction House wasn't going to work out and it hasn't and even if they tweak it some more, really just add an AH and tweak that to combat RMT and the like. I really like the idea of both Wards + AH together, right now it seems avoiding they are circling the issue.

Market wards were the worst idea SE has ever had... granted they do get some points for originality. But they are quickly subtracted for the massive failure of said idea.