Job Individuality/Pride/Dedication

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Originally Posted by KimimiAvesta

The biggest problem as I see it is that the playerbase at the moment is, for want of a kinder word, "abnormal". Having every class in the game at max level with AF gear isn't normal, and it creates a skewed expectation of other players.

I'd be all for some sort of class change restriction in the hopes that it'd mean people took 1 or 2 jobs more seriously instead of switching out every five minutes for fear of being sub-optimal.

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This is why we getting gear scores utility i think, so we can phase out gimps.

Do what I do. Specialize. I've played PLD since the good ol' XI days. I continued to play Gladiator when XIV first came out and jumped into PLD when it first arrived in Eorzea. Even when it was "useless" I continued to play it because I wanted to and was good at it.

Sure, you may have a harder time in the game because min/maxers will try tell you what you can and cannot do, but my philosophy is this:

I play this game for my own enjoyment, not the enjoyment of every other person on the server. I choose to spend my time on Paladin, helping people, rather than grinding away.

I don't expect relic, I don't expect world firsts, I don't expect dibs on drops.

But I'll be damned if I'm not gonna have fun on the job of my choosing.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Since you can't swap anything inside a primal fight, there is not much diversity in terms of Garuda setup isn't it? that alone is the proof why not able to swap classes inside dungeons is a cons to me because people brings what setup works best and safest.

Unless by diversity you mean you need to bring 2 melee and 2 mages because the content forced you to? MNKs are still not gonna be invited to that party slot because DRG are clearly better in this instances, so how do we make MNKs shines in this fight? buff them up? then MNK takes the slot and the DRGs complains? this is an endless loop, there will be never be perfect balance.

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But as even you said, skill is a factor here and a good player will perform better on a job they're familiar with. The slot roles may be determined but if there are multiple viable options for those roles then you have diversity. So in the DD slot, is there only one viable option or are there many? That's what allows diversity. By viable I don't mean best, I mean "does it work? Yeah. Then it's viable".

Being forced to bring something because of enemy number, damage type or even incapacitation does promote diversity. Given, with those things there is no single right choice. That is what is important.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

This is why we getting gear scores utility i think, so we can phase out gimps.

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Get on my level, garbage.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

It is the devs fault, because within the system they designed and created it is beneficial and optimal to go for the classes that work best. It's easy and effective because of how simple it is to get classes to 50 and how easy it is to switch classes on the fly.

Whether or not people are correct about their decisions for forming parties is not the devs fault, but the above statement is the core issue that creates this environment.

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Because people don't do this in XI with BLM burn parties, or in other games in general. The issue is that people want to get content done as quickly efficiently as possible? Well okay. How dare those pesky devs give us the freedom to do so.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

Because people don't do this in XI with BLM burn parties, or in other games in general. The issue is that people want to get content done as quickly efficiently as possible? Well okay. How dare those pesky devs give us the freedom to do so.

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I meant optimal and beneficial in terms of the difficulty of finding the people. It is easy to get the job you NEED because anyone can just class switch. This is a good thing, but it also means that non-optimal builds are never considered/tested/utilized, and if a certain class doesn't fit the "optimal setup" of the content they may never see the content (unless they switch classes, but they shouldn't have to).

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Originally Posted by Crevox

I meant optimal and beneficial in terms of the difficulty of finding the people. It is easy to get the job you NEED because anyone can just class switch. This is a good thing, but it also means that non-optimal builds are never considered/tested/utilized, and if a certain class doesn't fit the "optimal setup" of the content they may never see the content (unless they switch classes, but they shouldn't have to).

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Ehhhh, yes and no.

For the longest time, WAR was the one and only tank you would ever tank into Aurum Vale. Then some rogues decided to try Paladin tanks. This wasn't well received by the community at large, but as time went on, and people saw that it could actually work pretty damn good, it started to pan out better.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Do what I do. Specialize. I've played PLD since the good ol' XI days. I continued to play Gladiator when XIV first came out and jumped into PLD when it first arrived in Eorzea. Even when it was "useless" I continued to play it because I wanted to and was good at it.

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Not that it counts for much, but I always thought you were a damn good PLD :D

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Originally Posted by Arcell

But as even you said, skill is a factor here and a good player will perform better on a job they're familiar with. The slot roles may be determined but if there are multiple viable options for those roles then you have diversity. So in the DD slot, is there only one viable option or are there many? That's what allows diversity. By viable I don't mean best, I mean "does it work? Yeah. Then it's viable".

Being forced to bring something because of enemy number, damage type or even incapacitation does promote diversity. Given, with those things there is no single right choice. That is what is important.

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Yes i see your point, but why put a restriction when you can have all the freedom you wants, if you want to go 1 class all the way, you can. If you want to change multiple times inside, you can.

What if there is LS out there filled with BLM lovers, making a fight to force them to play melee iis punishing them no? so lets not be biased here and thinks objectively.

I however very much agree that incap is a very good way to promote diversity, you can bring all BLM to burn stuff down faster but you ain't getting shit to drop without incapping the NM, in a way people that wants to BLM burn still can but they will have to deal with shitty droprate or harder NM but they will still be able to win the content.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Yes i see your point, but why put a restriction when you can have all the freedom you wants, if you want to go 1 class all the way, you can. If you want to change multiple times inside, you can.

What if there is LS out there filled with BLM lovers, making a fight to force them to play melee iis punishing them no? so lets not be biased here and thinks objectively.

I however very much agree that incap is a very good way to promote diversity, you can bring all BLM to burn stuff down faster but you ain't getting shit to drop without incapping the NM, in a way people that wants to BLM burn still can but they will have to deal with shitty droprate or harder NM but they will still be able to win the content.

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Which is why a greater focus on incapacitation in 2.0 is necessary lol. At least, that's what I've been saying for a while now. Those threads are likely buried 20 pages deep by now though >.>