Dear warriors, sincerely healers

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

What about them to nerf? Sustainability?
If so, then there’s no reason to bring them outside aesthetic & simplicity reasons.

That’s pretty much the only edge they have over other tanks. (Except the posterboi PLD, RIP PLD)

I do have to say that Raw Intuition/Bloodwhetting/Nascent Flash’s description is slightly misleading. I was imagining it would only heal them for flat 400p for each weaponskills performed. Turns out that value multiplies in AoE situation. Definitely not what I expected.

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The only reasonable nerf they could do that wouldn't otherwise kill Warrior is to give Bloodwhetting a fall off. That way it's only impacted in dungeons. Even with a 50% fall off from the second hit onward, the critical hit heals from Chaotic Cyclone would still be strong. Although, I think 25% is more fair.

If they straight up nerf Bloodwhetting wholesale, then they need to up Warrior's damage. We saw in Shadowbringers that decent but otherwise incidental healing just doesn't matter in a raid setting. Warrior was decidedly the least played tank, and among the least played jobs in the meta setting. It often less than 5%; getting even as low as not being taken at all.

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Originally Posted by Hanaya

I barely ever heal as a healer. I barely have to heal in dungeons because such little damage comes out.

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Either you're lucky enough and the DF god had blessed you, or you're running with your mate, or you're straight up lying. If your experience is the typical out there, we wouldn't have all of those threads in the first 2 weeks asking if Healer had got neft or healing had become harder.

Like I said, I got 8 healer up to 90 (spread among 4 char). Yeah, there are some tank that made me forgot half of my kits, there are tanks that make wish all my heal has double potency. And the former are the exception, the later is the norm. I just got out of an A2 raid that last for a whole freaking 20 minutes where there were more deaths than there were people in the party.

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I've been grinding the ex trials since like early week 2 for gear/mounts, and I barely have to heal in those too unless my team is chain eating mechs/dying (in which case I'd rather just have the fight be unrecoverable. it's kind of silly to me that I can clear ex2 with 10+ deaths in the party).

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And if a college student go pick up a middle school problem, solve it and complain it's too easy ... I bet that would look silly too.

I mean ... I have an ultimate static, and when I play with them with current contents it's easy. 'cause it's supposed to be easy. Do you know why it needs to be easy? Because I had to run Zodiak 99 times since I had bad luck with rolls. Savage is harder, that's why it's designed you only need to clear it once a week. Then there come Ultimate in which, I know a lot of group after their first clear never try to attempt it again. My group despite cleared several time, but after each clear the next one was never taken for granted. That's the kind of content that will push your kit to its limit.

On the flip side, playing with pugs also push your kit to its limit too, in a total different way. In the end, it would be insanity for them to create farmable content like dungeon or EX that requires perfection to clear, neither they can gatekeep the kit for only ultimate. The classes are balance with the average players in mind, not just a few with their first world problem. This goes double for healers, a role that is there to provide the margin for the group.

I feel like the real reason it feels bad is because our DPS filler rotation is just a big snooze fest.

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Originally Posted by oakguy5000

I feel like the real reason it feels bad is because our DPS filler rotation is just a big snooze fest.

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I recommend leveling all 4 healers to 90 that way you can pick between whatever filler spell you want to bore you at the time

Ran into quite a few tanks in 4 mans doing wall to wall pulls with no def cd use. Want to experience the WTF feeling..find some of these tanks. As me please tanks use your def cd's I want you to use them.

As for self healing on dps and tanks ya they need a nerf but not face first onto the ground. I want them to know can rely on it to save them in a pinch.

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Originally Posted by Olinara

I experienced this. I was in one of the leveling dungeons, and there's a mechanic on the last boss I haven't quite mastered but survived it every time I've tanked it. As healer, I died with the boss at 85% and the two DPS (DNC and RPR) were around 30% health. I've seen tanks do it before, but the WAR played masterfully. The three remaining players all had full health when the boss was dead.

I don't fault the player for using his skillset well but it is a little demoralizing as a healer to not even have been needed for the fight.

There was a discussion within my FC about similar experiences, and the consensus is that it's balanced around a fight or fights that haven't been released yet.

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I have been thinking the same thing that roles are balanc around later fights. Difficulty curve is always at its lowest at the start of an expansion. So I am not passing judgement on anything until like the second tier of pan..

I’ll stop doing it once I get healers that don’t ignore dps health. I’m not talking 50%, I’m talking death’s door. I’ll thro out an Aurora or Heart of Corundum as a GNB too. It’s been rough since early access.

Been leveling my warrior to 90, and I recently threw nascent on a DPS that took some vuln stack. It's no big deal. I have plenty of buttons for myself.

If anything the healers like me, i get several uses of holmgang in some dungeons so they can go wild more.

Kind of hard concept for players in-general: Just Press Buttons

This post reminds me of the time I saw a BLM get mad because the WHM was using Holy and the mobs died too fast. Why should I be bothered if a tank throws in a little extra healing? As long as they're not letting it be to the detriment of their usual role, it seems like a good thing to me.

What really gets my goat is when a tank decides to do a huge pull, and stops for a few seconds halfway though, so it seems like "Here's where we'll fight, use your cooldowns, plop down Doton, summon Bahamut, etc." Then as soon as I do those, they bolt off into the distance again and drag all the enemies away. I get it, they're probably just taking a moment to make sure everybody's keeping up and they have aggro on all the stuff, but darned if it doesn't feel intentional sometimes! :p

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Originally Posted by Conando

I’ll stop doing it once I get healers that don’t ignore dps health. I’m not talking 50%, I’m talking death’s door.

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I mean, depending on the encounter even 50% is dangerous territory if they happen to fail the wrong mechanic. Having dead DPS on the floor isn't worth a few extra casts of Stone/Glare.

Stop ignoring dying DPS with the mentality of "Eh, they'll probably survive" and go on snoozing through the carried run then, and I'll stop using my healing tools on party members. Also, stop dying on bosses at 80% and leaving it up to the tank to take care of everything themselves.

This isn't just on bosses either, which are pretty much punching bags for tanks with their mediocre damage output, but trash packs too. Just because the tank can self heal and survive it, doesn't mean you can't make it easier with the oGCD's and HOT's, along with your DPS. All too often though, I've seen healers literally just standing there. When questioned, I've actually gotten responses of "You don't need my heals." So why are you here, why did you queue? You refuse to heal because you're so "unneeded" and then you won't even DPS, either? I've encountered this constantly, and it's so utterly draining and frustrating. I've vote kicked more in EW then I have in all my other playtime combined.

Also, so what's the excuse for not healing the DPS then, if I as the tank don't need your heals? I constantly, CONSTANTLY see DPS sitting around 10%-20% HP with a vuln stack or two after eating mechanics on bosses. Could be for any reason. Not paying attention, first time, whatever. That's a different discussion why they are eating mechanics. I can solo the boss, sure, but it goes faster with those DPS alive. So you better believe I'm going to toss them one of my heals that I can offer.

The problem isn't the tank's self healing that 3 of the 4 of them possess. Not even WAR's that's double what PLD/GBK have. It's that the content that's designed for every day consumption, dungeons, which is the content that the vast majority of the playerbase sees, is so undertuned with damage that you've gotten bored. The mechanics don't hit tanks hard at all. Pair that with the lackluster DPS design that healers have, one button, and boredom sets in. The role becomes a bore to play. Then it breeds resentment of the other roles.

Blame the mechanics and the current state of design of the healing jobs, blame the undertuned casual content of the dungeons. It's not the tank's fault.

And it's certainly not the tank's fault for saving a dying DPS.

EDIT: Apologies for the rant, but I've had a rough few weeks in duty finder. It's really, really draining. I don't know if I'm getting unlucky constantly seeing this, but quiet, normal runs are few and far between now a days.