World First tank line up confirmed

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

What I want is for people to be honest. You can't know whether taking DRK into Unending Coil is putting you at a disadvantage if you don't know the fight, unless you think DRK is always worse than the other tanks, in every way, no matter what.

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Yeah but thats just it, in my opinion, the most easily influenced players in the community would think along those lines of: "If you take a DRK, your putting your group at a disadvantage." Why do they think along those lines? It could be a simple case of taking the word of some of the most influential players in this game as God's word. But I could be wrong. The fact of the matter is, DRKs have never been deemed as not viable to clear content, EVEN ultimate, personally it just seems to me that tanks that can bring consistent personal and party mitigation are more valuable in one aspect, like a safety net. But at the same time, using this safety net wont come at a cost to most of their resources or worse, their DPS, which is where part of DRKs problem lies. Make no mistake, DRKs are viable and it has been proven by a fantastic player who just played the job and cleared ultimate JUST for fun more than following the current meta which most seem to believe is EVERYTHING.

I don't know the player, nor do I know the group personally. But I think it just goes to show that some jobs/party comps can offset the disadvantages another job has, put please do not read this as "I'm happy with DRK the way it is." its far from fine. We shouldn't take one player's success as a measure of how good or bad the job is, especially from one form of content. I want buffs as much as any other DRK main but I want them to make sense and within reason.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Personally I think tanks in tank stance are pretty balanced. I think tanks out are not. What I intend to imply here is that we are judging dark knight not on unending but what has already taken place. If we are actually being honest and thats what this is about then this whole nonsense of dark is fine because the job was in a world first clear is just as ridiculous a statement.

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Thing is the fact that a weak tank was able to clear the hardest content currently in the game will speak volumes to the dev team. That drk threw the DRK community under the bus and sort of ruined any chance you guys had at getting a rework in the near future. The devs will play the perception card, and it will be laced with a subtle get good statement.

It sucks, but the players that are making comments like if DRK is so bad how was it in the world first group, will honestly be the same gut reaction the devs will have.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Thing is the fact that a weak tank was able to clear the hardest content currently in the game will speak volumes to the dev team.

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Except WAR at 2.0, not tank was ever so badly designed/balanced that it couldn't clear the content. At worst, PLD had a really hard time when Gordias was just released and gear was scarce. A thing that can't happen for Unending Coil since it won't drop better gear to make things easier.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

What I intend to imply here is that we are judging dark knight not on unending but what has already taken place.

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If DRK is strong in Unending Coil (and I don't know that it is), then I think it's of interest to know why. I can think of a few possible reasons, but I can't confirm them since I've only spent half a lockout in Unending Coil. That said, Unending Coil isn't really representative of the rest of the game.

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If we are acktually being honest and thats what this is about then this whole nonsense of dark is fine the job was in a world first clear is just as ridiculous a statement.

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I agree, though I don't know that SE will see it that way.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Except WAR at 2.0, not tank was ever so badly designed/balanced that it couldn't clear the content. At worst, PLD had a really hard time when Gordias was just released and gear was scarce. A thing that can't happen for Unending Coil since it won't drop better gear to make things easier.

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And how many times has SE gone back and gave reworks to tanks? I mean wasn't pld left mostly untouched during 3.0? I am still new, but even from the brief time playing the game, SE seems to be afraid to add changes to tanks, I am certain the only reason shake it off was reworked was because even they were unable to think of many situations were that skill was useful. They might do potency adjustments here and there, but it seems most of the DRK community wants more then a potency readjustment.

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Originally Posted by Awha

And how many times has SE gone back and gave reworks to tanks? I mean wasn't pld left mostly untouched during 3.0?

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No, PLD was tweaked at almost each major patch.
As an example, these are the changes it received at 3.2 :

• Fast Blade

  TP cost has been reduced from 70 to 60.

• Savage Blade

  The amount of enmity generated has been increased.

• Goring Blade

  Potency when used as a combo action has been increased from 220 to 240.

  Damage over time potency has been increased from 40 to 50.

• Royal Authority

  Potency when used as a combo action has been increased from 340 to 350.

• Clemency

  Casting time reduced from 3 to 2 seconds.

• Divine Veil

  The protective barrier that is cast on all party members within range when you receive a healing spell now activates even when healing yourself.

  Recast time reduced from 150 seconds to 120 seconds.

• Sword Oath

  Use will no longer interrupt weaponskill combos.

• Shield Oath

  Use will no longer interrupt weaponskill combos.

  Damage penalty has been reduced from 20% to 15%.

  The amount of enmity generated has been increased.

That's a lot of small changes, but I the same kind of changes would help DRK be a lot better.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, PLD ws tweaked at almost each major patch.

That's a lot of small changes, but I the same kind of changes would help DRK be a lot better.

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Pld was still a meme class during most of 3.0 right? Or were most pld players during 3.0 happy with their class? It seems like they were unhappy with slight adjustments and only truly happy after the rework in 4.0. Maybe that is why SE is unwilling to be do slight adjustments for DRK, seems like a waste of time on their part since people will still complain.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Pld was still a meme class during most of 3.0 right? Or were most pld players during 3.0 happy with their class? It seems like they were unhappy with potency adjustments, and only truly happy after the rework in 4.0. Maybe that is why SE is unwilling to be do potency adjustments for DRK, seems like a waste of time on their part since people will still complain.

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They weren't really happy, but PLD had, in my opinion, deepest issues that DRK has now. PLD had no GCD AoE, strong TP issues and almost no utility as an off-tank.
On top of that, the content was design around magical damage making its inability to block magic a deep flaw and the additional effect on RoH useless, while DRK was heavily equipped to face such situations.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, PLD ws tweaked at almost each major patch.
As an example, these are the changes it received at 3.2 :

• Fast Blade

  TP cost has been reduced from 70 to 60.

• Savage Blade

  The amount of enmity generated has been increased.

• Goring Blade

  Potency when used as a combo action has been increased from 220 to 240.

  Damage over time potency has been increased from 40 to 50.

• Royal Authority

  Potency when used as a combo action has been increased from 340 to 350.

• Clemency

  Casting time reduced from 3 to 2 seconds.

• Divine Veil

  The protective barrier that is cast on all party members within range when you receive a healing spell now activates even when healing yourself.

  Recast time reduced from 150 seconds to 120 seconds.

• Sword Oath

  Use will no longer interrupt weaponskill combos.

• Shield Oath

  Use will no longer interrupt weaponskill combos.

  Damage penalty has been reduced from 20% to 15%.

  The amount of enmity generated has been increased.

That's a lot of small changes, but I the same kind of changes would help DRK be a lot better.

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I mean if we ignore the fact that pacth 3.2 took 9 months and those changes didn't helped paladin at all and that it didn't recieve any susbtantial changes up until creator. that bein said DRK is not even close to the spot pally or warrior was previously to recieve mayor overhaul all drk needs is % adjustments, all I would argue drk needs is a 3 combo ad that's what was hurting pally in arr and heaves ward the class was too simple, while people enjoy the over simplyfied version I'd argue many more don't. but that's subjective. other than that drk does no need this much level of rework.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

He never said DRK was better than WAR/PLD. People here needs to learn howw to read.

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Take your own advice, sweetheart. It's an example not an absolute. She's arguing DRK is balanced yet it's objectively inferior at every aspect. She's been asked by multiple people now to explain what it does better than either of PLD or WAR and in lieu of answering the question, went on a silly rant about the community.