I feel like I've won a battle

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Originally Posted by Higashikata

Thanks for conceding.

Even if it does cost an aether flow, you're trading a fester for Ahk Morn. This is a no-brainer even you should view as a good trade.

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So by this logic now were not going to use bane either to spread out dots after tri-diaster? I thought we were a dot class, now were a ahk-morn class? I'am sure your going to say but but it hits for 2.7k-3k, ok..there is also something called scaling, while hitting for 3-4k right now on live sounds like a lot, it MAY not be the same at 60.

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

No offense, but have you played a Warlock in WoW? Let's make a comparison list:

Aether Flow stacks = Soul Shards
Smn dots = Warlock dots
Ruin/Ruin 2 = Shadow Bolt/Malefic Grasp (as in it's a filler spell while dots are ticking)
Pets = pets (minus the pvp pet and debuff remover pet and the burst aoe pet)

And with the new stuff:
New Tri-Disaster = Soul Burned Soul Swap
Dreadwyrm Trance = Metamorphosis
Ahk Morn = Chaos Bolt

Now if that doesn't look like FF14's Summoner is a hodge podge of WoW's Warlock with all 3 of it's specs mashed together with a greater emphasis on Affliction, then I don't know what does. After all, I fairly sure there was an interview in which Yoshi-P mentions that WoW was an inspiration to ARR and Summoner shows it with how similar it is to Warlock. Heck I quickly grew bored of Summoner simply because of the fact that I did feel like I was playing Warlock all over again which I had played as in WoW for nearly 3 years in a row and so I just couldn't stand to keep playing essentially the same class over and over again.

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I main a lock in wow.

The problem with making direct spell comparisons, of course, is that they really have no background on how things work.

Aetherflow is fundamentally different from soul shards, because one is a proc and another is 100% guaranteed.

You are also attempting to put all 3 lock specs together as if someone taking a bit from each spec makes it the same...

What I am getting at is aside from the supposed idea that they are all "dot classes" they play very differently, and have very different motivations for skills and how they are used, and similarly, resource management.

All 3 lock specs have a resource which is gained and which is spent.

Demo lock could not be further from SMN in terms of playstyle. You rarely cast dots in that, and the core rotational set of demo (HoG/CW) has nothing similar to SMN.

I guess an easier way to explain is to show that aside from superficial similarities, the gameplay is completely different.

SMN motivations are, keep dots up, Aetherflow on CD, and fester whenever.

Demo motivations are, sync up CD's with high resource burst, look for procs and pop meta form. Standard rotational checks for HoG procs and uses them accordingly. DoT management is such a minor part of demo - you essentially have one dot you put up.

Destro motivations are, time Chaos Bolt with procs, otherwise filler. Immolate is one dot. Sync up CDs with resource saving.

Afflic, the one closest to SMN, even has different motivations. Aside from the standard old refresh dots and filler, it needs to save and time soul shard usage for haunt, etc.

None of that dynamicness is anywhere with SMN, and none of the "primary focus" of the classes have anything to do with it.

If you really want superficial comparisons, hell compare SMN to a boomkin (it also maintains dots and casts filler), fire mage (maintain dots, cast filler), basically any caster has the same idea...but WoW's classes are not remotely similar in actual playstyle.

I am not saying which is better or worse, but FF14's playstyle is very very different from WoWs.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

You've won the battle now the Summoner population will be completely dead in 3.0 and they will main Black Mages since they are clearly better than Summoner in every way.

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Luckily, most people aren't as hindsighted as you are and play the game to have fun first and think about maximizing their effectiveness second. I mean, I'm all for playing your job perfectly and know the fights you're in, etc etc, but playing a different job that you may or may not like just because it's a slight effectiveness boost? Are you that desperate for efficiency that you need that?

Not to mention that nobody knows how SMNs will be in 3.0, so stop assuming things you don't know

Aetherflow is always on cd...

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

Not to mention that nobody knows how SMNs will be in 3.0, so stop assuming things you don't know

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Well seeing as how its taken until the expansion to do anything good for Summoners, I'am pretty sure his assumptions are on track. The flashy ahk morn will get some people to switch over to check it out, realize its a waste of time and go back to their normal job. The hardcore who love the current iteration of summoners will continue to drink the same kool-aide they already are, while the rest of the population moves onto other jobs/new jobs.

The biggest change I have read so far today that sounds good is the fact that spell speed will affect our DOT damage and our pets damage, thats finally a plus, but again were not getting this until the expansion, this is something that should have been done way sooner and should not take a expansion pack.

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Originally Posted by Galand

So by this logic now were not going to use bane either to spread out dots after tri-diaster? I thought we were a dot class, now were a ahk-morn class? I'am sure your going to say but but it hits for 2.7k-3k, ok..there is also something called scaling, while hitting for 3-4k right now on live sounds like a lot, it MAY not be the same at 60.

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At this point I have no idea what you're talking about. The fact you don't know (or are trying to ignore) Yoshi-P said that Bahamut Trance will be part of the one-minute cycle with aetherflow leads me to believe you don't know what you're talking about either. I'm trying to take you serious but in all honesty I cannot do this anymore. You think Tri-bind is a level 50 skill and don't even attempt proper grammar.

I don't know what straws you are grasping at, but they're not there man.

EDIT: Here's some quotes from other threads from that same livestream you think you watched.

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

Here's information on smn:

sources:
http://www.twitch.tv/pcgamesn
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...view?sle=true#


Tri-Bind - ((What is currently Tri-Disaster in ARR))
Tri-Disaster - Consumes an Aetherflow to apply Bio, Bio II, and Miasma on target.
Dreadwyrm Trance - Applies stacks of Bahamut Aether Which can be spent on various abilities while Aetherflow is on cooldown.
Deathflare - Giant laser that hits an AoE for massive damage (Like Akh Morn). Consumes 3 stacks of Bahamut Aether.
Painflare - Uses Bahamut Aether. Consumes less than Deathflare, possibly for more damage? More info is needed.
DoTs hit harder based on spell Speed.


Ahk-Morn: AoE, does around 2.7-3k non-crit as a reference.

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Originally Posted by Hustensaft

The dengeki article (http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/056/1056760/) states something different: エーテルフロー消費アクションを実行することで蓄積される“バハムートエーテル”。 or: Consuming Aetherflow stacks Bahamut Aether up to 3.
Followed by: Once you have 3 stacks, you can invoke Bahamut-Trans which increases damage done (other japanese interview says for 15 seconds), and you get access to new big damage actions.

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Originally Posted by Higashikata

I don't know what straws you are grasping at, but they're not there man.

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Oh no, man I must quit video gaming, I forgot what level I learned a spell on one of the many jobs I've reached 50 on 2 years ago! Tell me, you remember every single spell and what level you learned every single spell in every video game?

Now were going to sit and nitpick online grammar? Typical, you can not justify anything your saying so lets resort to personal attacks that have nothing to do with the subject at hand, good job sir, you win the internets

"Dreadwyrm Trance - Applies stacks of Bahamut Aether Which can be spent on various abilities while Aetherflow is on cooldown."

The person doing the stream thats going on right now said he had a Q and A developer show him the Summoner class, and what he SAID was, you use Aetherflow, then after thirty seconds, you could activate Dreadwyrm and it swaps your AF stacks to DW stacks, and you use the DW stacks to cast the Bahamut abilities Deathflare which takes 3 stacks, and another ability that takes less stacks.

All of this devalues dots/fester/bane/tri-diaster etc

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Originally Posted by Galand

"Dreadwyrm Trance - Applies stacks of Bahamut Aether Which can be spent on various abilities while Aetherflow is on cooldown."

The person doing the stream thats going on right now said he had a Q and A developer show him the Summoner class, and what he SAID was, you use Aetherflow, then after thirty seconds, you could activate Dreadwyrm and it swaps your AF stacks to DW stacks, and you use the DW stacks to cast the Bahamut abilities Deathflare which takes 3 stacks, and another ability that takes less stacks.

All of this devalues dots/fester/bane/tri-diaster etc

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You just said you use your aetherflow stacks, then 30 seconds after you use aetherflow you can activate dreadwyrm stance. When he says "you use atherflow" he's meaning you use them on bane/fester/tri-disaster. The dengeki article says you gain bahamut stacks as you use your aetherflows. You don't even know what you're being told now.

Again, no straws.

They've updated the spreadsheet. Get ready for it...... Ruin III - Single target magic attack. I don't know why but this makes me sad. I love everything else so far but ruin is the most visually bland spell in the game.