I would like "Killer" traits return

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Actually, you had to be high on the hate list rather than nearly non-existent. Dragoons had the problem of intimidating themselves or being intimidated by their Wyvern when they wore Crimson armor because of it giving you Dragon Affinity basically, so it's not targeted, just have to be in it's presence. Being targeted gave a higher chance.

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That must have changed in the last 3 years as I was subscribed until early 2011 and the only way to activate a killer effect was to be the actual target, not high on the enmity list. Though if I recall the Killer effect also originated as a small haste/damage buff that was later changed to an intimidation for fear of unbalancing DPS jobs at high levels. If it's the FFXI rendition of Killer effects I don't see it being added or useful in the instance it is.

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Originally Posted by Airal

That must have changed in the last 3 years as I was subscribed until early 2011 and the only way to activate a killer effect was to be the actual target, not high on the enmity list. Though if I recall the Killer effect also originated as a small haste/damage buff that was later changed to an intimidation for fear of unbalancing DPS jobs at high levels. If it's the FFXI rendition of Killer effects I don't see it being added or useful in the instance it is.

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It was, it came around the same time they boosted up the Circle effects to be a lot more useful since it made a lot more sense to do so.

Makes sense that they would give an option for you to actually be able to make use of it then. Still doesn't seem like it would be a worthy addition to our current state of the game, however. Balance has been mentioned multiple times and that's the reason it probably won't be coming in the form of damage boosts or reductions.

I could get behind these traits being implemented. There are a ton of ways they could make it balanced. Materia, potions, stats on accessories (just make sure they're not job-locked). If they ever get some kind of class-neutral talent system going (which would also be cool), it'd fit well there.

I could also see them making this part of a new tank or healer's minor mitigation toolkit. Various killer traits as a tank levels up, that activate about as often, and about as effectively, as block or parry, and throw in an ability that buffs the % for 20 seconds. Or a spell a healer can toss on a player/whole party that averages out to be Eye for an Eye/Sacred Soil-ish.

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Originally Posted by Airal

Makes sense that they would give an option for you to actually be able to make use of it then. Still doesn't seem like it would be a worthy addition to our current state of the game, however. Balance has been mentioned multiple times and that's the reason it probably won't be coming in the form of damage boosts or reductions.

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Only way to have a balanced yet overpowered "Killer" trait so that players wont want to flock all over them and to allow for balance and diversity is by having it be a low proc that would be even lower than the current atma drop rate.

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Originally Posted by Bixby

I could get behind these traits being implemented. There are a ton of ways they could make it balanced. Materia, potions, stats on accessories (just make sure they're not job-locked). If they ever get some kind of class-neutral talent system going (which would also be cool), it'd fit well there.

I could also see them making this part of a new tank or healer's minor mitigation toolkit. Various killer traits as a tank levels up, that activate about as often, and about as effectively, as block or parry, and throw in an ability that buffs the % for 20 seconds. Or a spell a healer can toss on a player/whole party that averages out to be Eye for an Eye/Sacred Soil-ish.

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Yeah there's many ways to go about it. Only issue is trying to please the most amount of players with such a choice that wont have a sort of major impact in the game by it's implementation.

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Originally Posted by Bixby

I could also see them making this part of a new tank or healer's minor mitigation toolkit. Various killer traits as a tank levels up, that activate about as often, and about as effectively, as block or parry, and throw in an ability that buffs the % for 20 seconds. Or a spell a healer can toss on a player/whole party that averages out to be Eye for an Eye/Sacred Soil-ish.

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If they balanced fights around people rotating skills like that in a meaningful fashion that would be rather interesting as an option. It would also answer the call I see occasionally for a debuffing class that wouldn't simply break the game in two because you can combine every other class's meaningful status effects into one super class.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Only way to have a balanced yet overpowered "Killer" trait so that players wont want to flock all over them and to allow for balance and diversity is by having it be a low proc that would be even lower than the current atma drop rate.

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But at that point it would feel like winning/surviving a fight, or at least some small part of it, by pure RNG.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Yeah there's many ways to go about it. Only issue is trying to please the most amount of players with such a choice that wont have a sort of major impact in the game by it's implementation.

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If it's going to be a minor change, why spend the time to develop it?

One way to keep it balanced, non-situational (using this only for dragon/golem/plantling/etc. fights) is to simply give it higher-order bonuses that are, on average, level with basic stats (both primary and secondary). For example, if you had Materia of the Dragonblood, it could give bonus attack power based on damage recently dealt. It's a reliable damage bonus that is best used by classes with high burst, favoring Bard and especially Dragoon, but certainly usable by others. Atop that it has a small typal bonus in two directions, both against Dragonkin and against the 'prey' of Dragonkin.

Others could do much more intricate things, as long as they do not hugely increase dps or survivability beyond the capabilities of secondary stats.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

If it's going to be a minor change, why spend the time to develop it?

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The very short answer is gimmick. Like 2hr.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

The very short answer is gimmick. Like 2hr.

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I guess this may just be a difference in personal preference between us then. When something's added, I like for it to be more than a gimmick. I want it to come into consideration when I consider the purpose, capabilities, and dynamics of my build (class, job, gear, materia, these traits, etc.). If it doesn't come to the point where I can say "I am... <some new or newly nuanced identity of the more general role>", I really don't care for some random shiny thing going off occasionally outside of my control.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I believe that elements differentiating only for element's sake (i.e. by name) have no real advantage. If all elements differentiate within a shared range of under-mechanics, then I believe the elemental wheel has a chance to work. Where one type beats another as a matter of general law, rather than through the particular undermechanics (preferably also with the possibility to still use an element against its resistant (and/or own) type by combination with other elements), I find that gameplay is only simplified and offset, and muddied in endgame content, even if a bit more interesting during leveling processes (unless that process too, is taken with full seriousness/opportunism/efficiency-seeking/etc.).

I like a system in which Fire still works against Ifrit, earth against Titan, and wind against Garuda -- but with dependency on how you use it, and possibly with risk even of absorption at times.

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Okay, now I understand what you mean. Definitely a better explanation and I could totally jump on-board with that. It just bothers me how every elemental is nearly non-elemental.