Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by zeth07

Isn't that where you should be regularly standing against every mob/boss outside of specific circumstances? Instead of the other way around.

Since that allows for minimal movement to go from flank/rear based on the target circle.

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Yeah optimally, but you cant always do it ^^

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Except that when you need to attack the bulb close to the boss its just super inconvenient to move your camera around in order to be behind so you re kinda forced to do a quick TTT here, or ID on rafflesia and then DiS on it

About the weapon it all depend if you got enough soldiery + advancement in Coils to get the ilvl110. That and some pieces to cover the complete lack of accuracy on the Liberator too

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Yeah, just pair it with the chest and/or a combination of crafted i90 out of the following at least 2 Savage Aim IVs: Head,Waist, Hands, Feet. (hands are the poorest choice since T6 drops it, but Head is BIS period)

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

Yeah, just pair it with the chest and/or a combination of crafted i90 out of the following at least 2 Savage Aim IVs: Head,Waist, Hands, Feet. (hands are the poorest choice since T6 drops it, but Head is BIS period)

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Wolfram Headgear?

Was giving things time to settle and info to come out before updating. I've added the new stat weights, and if someone wants to make the BiS gearlists (including crafted gear if necessary) for ~470 (T6/T7) and ~495 (T8/T9) accuracy then the first legit posting will get added to the guide.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

Wolfram Headgear?

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Yeah you can meld it to have 18 acc + higher DPS weight then both high allagan and astrum.

Below I'll show how i set mine up:
Name Strength Determination Critical Hit Rating Skill Speed Accuracy Vitality
Wolfram 18 12 21 21 18 20

which with using the new weights EMX posted:
DPS WEIGHT: 29.922

I put in two Savage Might IVs, two Heavens Eye IVs, and a Savage Aim III.

[EDIT] Technically: you could sacrifice the 9 acc for +3 more DET to make it even higher; but i figured the +9acc would be more worth it. (it'll also be cheaper; my server is so expensive right now, 150k for Aim IV, 100k for Might IV and Heavens Eye IV)

PRE-T9 BiS SHEET - ALL ACCURACIES - Completed 16/04/14 - http://pastebin.com/rznxByDC

TRUE BiS SHEET - ALL ACCURACIES - Updated 16/04/14 15:24gmt - http://pastebin.com/fdg2UQD1

Pre-T9 BiS Gear Sets @ 493/496 Accuracy. Accommodates for the loss of High Allagan Cuirass of Maiming, or High Allagan Belt of Maiming, or both, as neither of them have been found, and it is unconfirmed whether both, or only one of them drops in T9. Gear sets are posted in the www.ffxiv.ariyala.com links, as it looks neater.

I'll update this post with the BiS sheet in a moment.

EDIT: Changed link

EDIT 2: Going to reformat that sheet and add Levi EX sets & 470-472 accuracy sets for T6/T7. Do not add to OP just yet :)

EDIT 3: Completed Pre-T9 sheet. Can be put on OP

EDIT 4: Completed BiS sheet. Can be added onto OP.

On the BiS sheet, can someone recheck the numbers for 493 & 496 accuracies? For some reason, 496 has a higher weight than 493...

Pretty much, according to the sets, the Ring, Feet, Legs and Hands are all Sol. Neck may or may not be (so wait on that); Head, Bracelets, Earrings and Ring are Allagan.

Also, the only one that uses the Allagan body is the 493 no-belt set, so getting the Sol body isn't a bad idea overall...

Just writing out my thought process here.

Want to buy the Sol body, but I don't want it to drop from T6 then, since I'd need the Sands to upgrade it to use it if I get the Allagan body, and I don't think I'll be beating T8 for a bit still...At the same time, don't want to buy the Feet for a similar reason...I could buy the Ring, but then I have extra Tomes for a while as I wait (have Allagan hands)...

lol 0 accuracy Pre-t9 w/o Allagan Cuirass gives us 524 SS... That's 2.32 GCD. With Selene, that's 681 SS, or a GDC of 2.17. omg

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Originally Posted by Dervy

lol 0 accuracy Pre-t9 w/o Allagan Cuirass gives us 524 SS... That's 2.32 GCD. With Selene, that's 681 SS, or a GDC of 2.17. omg

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My poor tp ; ;

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Originally Posted by Dervy

EDIT 3: Completed Pre-T9 sheet. Can be put on OP

EDIT 4: Completed BiS sheet. Can be added onto OP.

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Done and done, let me know to update if things change. Thanks!

Well, got my Allagan Spear tonight...too bad I can't use it in Coil2 yet.

The Boots still elude me :(

The pre T8-9 BiS shows Liberator, though you need a Sands of Time to upgrade it from Weathered, and afaik they only drop from T8+.
Is that a mistakes, or is Sands of time in T7 too?

Edit: Now I look a bit more at it, it also shows T8 items like the visor, bracelets, and non-weathered Sol armor which also requires sands of time

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Originally Posted by Alenore

The pre T8-9 BiS shows Liberator, though you need a Sands of Time to upgrade it from Weathered, and afaik they only drop from T8+.
Is that a mistakes, or is Sands of time in T7 too?

Edit: Now I look a bit more at it, it also shows T8 items like the visor, bracelets, and non-weathered Sol armor which also requires sands of time

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It's Pre-T9 BiS, not Pre Turn-8/9 BiS. The accuracy requirement for Turn 8/9 is roughly the same. You must've read it wrong, or I've worded it poorly. I apologise if it's the latter :P

Sands of Time drops in T7 IIRC.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

PRE-T9 BiS SHEET - ALL ACCURACIES - Completed 16/04/14 - http://pastebin.com/rznxByDC

TRUE BiS SHEET - ALL ACCURACIES - Completed 16/04/14 - http://pastebin.com/t4F9spKV

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Thanks for this, in the "True BiS sheet" you specifically did not inculde the HA maiming cuirass but did include the HA spear was this a mistake or is it not as good, I also see this set you posted the other day which did include the HA maiming cuirass http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/M7RB

I hope the High Allagan Maiming body is included, especially since the set without it requires 4 pieces of astrum being upgraded = 4 sands of time. for progression reasons you should be using your groups first 4 set of sands of time on the dps to get i110 weapons to be able to clear t9. So assuming once t6-9 is on farm and your group is sharing the sands of time out evenly it will be like 16 weeks before you could get 4 to upgrade them pieces.

Oh that's a Typo. It was 3am, late, and I wanted to get the pastebin done, so I just copy-pasta the format from the other sheet :P. I'll fix it straight away. Thanks a bunch!

Corrected BiS sheet: http://pastebin.com/fdg2UQD1

Oil of time T7/T9. Oil is for accessories.
Tomestone is T7.
Sands of Time is T8/T9 which is used to upgrade weapons and all left side soldiery gear.

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Originally Posted by pompey_dan

I hope the High Allagan Maiming body is included, especially since the set without it requires 4 pieces of astrum being upgraded = 4 sands of time. for progression reasons you should be using your groups first 4 set of sands of time on the dps to get i110 weapons to be able to clear t9. So assuming once t6-9 is on farm and your group is sharing the sands of time out evenly it will be like 16 weeks before you could get 4 to upgrade them pieces.

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In regards to limited sands, I definitely think it's worth considering using the high allagan hands/feet combo over astrum until a long ways down the road, since the weighted difference is so small (assuming your set is using both).

BTW, Is there any sources that the Sands / Oil are 100% sure drop?

Yes. Every T7/8/9 kill pic we've seen has one of them.

From what I've heard they always drop. I have no sources tho. I haven't heard anyone NOT get them, so there is that~

I see. Good to know that. I personally haven't set foot on the Second Coil, due to my partymate's RL commitment. So haven't checked on anything related to it.

Here's what I got from my solver, not using 90 gear on it because takes more time to calculate and anyway its not worth it in the end because of vit.
If you find any kind of error tell me and I'll check it out, there seems to be discrepancies with Dervy's scores and stats (rounding) but gear seems similar or the same.

True BiS
http://pastebin.com/SCE5v88k

PRE-T9 BiS (Excludes weapon, chest, belt)
http://pastebin.com/Rh4qhbqV

Gear used for the lists are:

ilvl 110-115 coil items
ilvl 110 shop items
ilvl 100 shop items
mog choker

food (all HQ): apkallu, buttons in a blanket, deviled, black truffle, button mushroom saute

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Originally Posted by KrystalF

Snip

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Our gear sets are the same (for the most part). Scores are down to rounding most probably, as I use whole numbers and never round. I also kept my food static with Buttons in Blankets and I noticed that the only time our gear sets were different, was when your set had Devilled Eggs HQ, which yes, had higher weights than Buttons in Blankets HQ in most cases (E.G, BiS 493 accuracy)

Guess your solver is better ^^ And I think KrystalF's pastebins should be posted on OP.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

lol 0 accuracy Pre-t9 w/o Allagan Cuirass gives us 524 SS... That's 2.32 GCD. With Selene, that's 681 SS, or a GDC of 2.17. omg

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So allagan cuirass better than myth chest for coil runs and dungeons??

With 768 sols I'm debating on getting the sol chest or replace my dark light ring with sol ring later this week?

I haven't really tried to progress far into 2.2 yet, mostly farming myth for Animus right now, but I've heard a lot about 2.2 content being much better for melee than before.

This also has brought up the debate that MNK's are the obvious choice over DRG because you can maximize your single target dps, where MNK's own DRG.

As I said, I don't know this from own experience, so you can correct me if this is wrong. Also I'm not saying DRG's will be left out of groups, cause that rarely happen.... But I still want it to be balanced.

So, do you think DRG needs a dps buff ? We aren't exactly the best choice for Aoe, and our single target dps is a little too far behind MNK's I think.

I'd say that so far turn 6 and turn 7 aren't exactly melee friendly, especially turn 7 its just too based on RNG.


Turn 6 for the momentum you are pretty much forced to have (Blighted Bouquet), it's not easy to have GL 3 or Heavy Thrust up in a fashion where you can be sure to not lose it if you have to deal with a center bulb and a bit after that, a hornet. (or like, hornet, bulb and blighted, enjoy that one)

In Turn 7, when you got to deal with the 2 first first "waves" of adds, granted you re the dps selected for shriek, can't say that its melee friendly too : you have to go all over the place and well maybe just have to totally stop to dps

It's like Twintania if you want, you won't have a 100% uptime of dps no matter what. Its defo better in turn 8 tho.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

I haven't really tried to progress far into 2.2 yet, mostly farming myth for Animus right now, but I've heard a lot about 2.2 content being much better for melee than before.

This also has brought up the debate that MNK's are the obvious choice over DRG because you can maximize your single target dps, where MNK's own DRG.

As I said, I don't know this from own experience, so you can correct me if this is wrong. Also I'm not saying DRG's will be left out of groups, cause that rarely happen.... But I still want it to be balanced.

So, do you think DRG needs a dps buff ? We aren't exactly the best choice for Aoe, and our single target dps is a little too far behind MNK's I think.

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Can't comment on turn 9 but turns 6-8 all are fine for melee. Is actually easier for melee in turn 7 than it is for ranged which is a nice change+having 2 melee makes fireball placement alot easier.

DRG and MNK balance is fine. MNK will do about 8% more dps single target with no interrupts than us but we boost BRD dps by 10% so overall is roughly the same. Where DRG really shines is burst damage. Bursting down an add quickly is important in most encounters.

I don't think there should ever be more than one DRG in a party however, where as stacking MNK can be beneficial for single target DPS such as turn 8.

Our aoe is alot better than monks and SMN (depending on how many targets there are) we actually do better aoe damage then BRD but their buff to BLM, the king of aoe, makes them the better choice.

Well what I wanted to say is that, for high sustained dps turn 6 and 7 are quite delicate for that. On the other hand if you know how to do your job its just fine to be a melee like Pompey said. Hit hard when you have to and life will be beautiful.

That beein said, Garuda - Titan EX and the whole first Coils are absolutely fine for a melee so I don't quite know why people say "this time around its better". Its just that said people learned to play in the process ^^

I would agree with the last few posts
Melee is fine in Coil 2.2 from what I have seen so far.
Turn 6, takes some adjustment and RNG factor, that is going to be the same for most any DPS class unless you are a bard.
Turn 7, a melee can shine, and not just a little, but a lot as long as you know how to play your class well, and position yourself to avoid mechanics. Only RNG factor, is the shriek, yep you get it, get into position and wait out your time, you are probably doing nothing during this time but loss dmg.
Turn 8, dps parse post with a few break & run factors. Hit hard, hit fast, avoid mechanics and burn that boss down ^^

Depending on your group make up, it is going to be easier or the same as Turns 1-5. Nothing in there that makes life impossible as a melee at all.

I think it should be noted for the BiS lists, that they are not accurate unless you factor in the Wolfram Mask (crafted i90 head piece) melded a certain way. If you meld it right you can max determination and crit/ss and get +9 acc or, max crit/ss and have 12/15 det and have +18acc.

Both of which is significantly better than high allagan and astrum. The only advantage high allagan/astrum have is the +vit. So you would be sacrificing a little hp for more dps, something i'm sure a considerable amount of players would be willing to do.

I've been looking into the Coil2 loot lists, and I have a bad feeling DRG got the short stick with loot; I'm sure we have belt and body in T9 :(

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Originally Posted by VaShawn

So allagan cuirass better than myth chest for coil runs and dungeons??

With 768 sols I'm debating on getting the sol chest or replace my dark light ring with sol ring later this week?

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The Allagan Cuirass has a 1.937 heavier weight than the Wyrms Mail, which is quite a lot considering the Wyrms Mail is such a strong piece.

__

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

I think it should be noted for the BiS lists, that they are not accurate unless you factor in the Wolfram Mask (crafted i90 head piece) melded a certain way. If you meld it right you can max determination and crit/ss and get +9 acc or, max crit/ss and have 12/15 det and have +18acc.

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That's too much SS we'll be pumping into our gear. With the Liberato/Pre-T9 accuracy, well be near 493/4 SS @ the T5 accuracy. If we put a Wolfram Helmet on, that's now 511/512.

I know nothing about crafted gear, or their melds. But if you or someone could get me the exact stats for a Max Penta-Melded Wolfram Helm, I'll chuck it in my solver and see what sets it comes out with.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I've been looking into the Coil2 loot lists, and I have a bad feeling DRG got the short stick with loot; I'm sure we have belt and body in T9 :(

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Alot of important pieces for DRG comes in later turns. We have 6-8 on farm, and we havent seen a single DRG left side, while our mnk is i104 =/

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Alot of important pieces for DRG comes in later turns. We have 6-8 on farm, and we havent seen a single DRG left side, while our mnk is i104 =/

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Well, the left-side BiS Allagan pieces are Head (T8) and Belt (T9); the Hands (T6), Feet (T7), Legs (T8) and Body (T9) are looking like good stop-gaps til you can get all the Sands to get the Astrum Body, Legs, Feet and Hands upgraded (and Liberator unless you get really lucky with T9...5 Sands...that's a ton of clears). Good news is the right-side is all Allagan (all drop 6-8 too), so only one Oil is needed for the Ring...

I'm using the 496 acc T9 BiS BTW...

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

I think it should be noted for the BiS lists, that they are not accurate unless you factor in the Wolfram Mask (crafted i90 head piece) melded a certain way. If you meld it right you can max determination and crit/ss and get +9 acc or, max crit/ss and have 12/15 det and have +18acc.

Both of which is significantly better than high allagan and astrum. The only advantage high allagan/astrum have is the +vit. So you would be sacrificing a little hp for more dps, something i'm sure a considerable amount of players would be willing to do.

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The added secondary stats outweigh the main stat increase on items that are 20ilvl higher????

I think the crafted belt is the main one to consider. It can cap all secondary stats including accuracy.
This is a perfectly melded one for example:
STR 13
SS 16
CRT 16
ACC 16
DET 11
however it requires 4x tier IV melds with only 1 of them being guaranteed and a tier II last.

To make it alot cheaper you can meld it with 2x tier IV 2x tier III and a tier II det which is what I have done giving:
STR 13
SS 16
CRT 15
ACC 15
DET 11

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

I think it should be noted for the BiS lists, that they are not accurate unless you factor in the Wolfram Mask (crafted i90 head piece) melded a certain way. If you meld it right you can max determination and crit/ss and get +9 acc or, max crit/ss and have 12/15 det and have +18acc.

Both of which is significantly better than high allagan and astrum. The only advantage high allagan/astrum have is the +vit. So you would be sacrificing a little hp for more dps, something i'm sure a considerable amount of players would be willing to do.

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I don't know if I would say a difference of about 3 weighted STR is significantly better, especially when you consider what we lose on other pieces to make up for that accuracy drop (and as Dervy mentioned, another huge lump of SS being added ontop of an already extremely bloated SS total).

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Originally Posted by Dervy

The Allagan Cuirass has a 1.937 heavier weight than the Wyrms Mail, which is quite a lot considering the Wyrms Mail is such a strong piece.
I know nothing about crafted gear, or their melds. But if you or someone could get me the exact stats for a Max Penta-Melded Wolfram Helm, I'll chuck it in my solver and see what sets it comes out with.

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I do agree about the multitude of skill speed, but what can you say; for some reason SE thinks it is nice to put SS on almost every piece of our gear.

That aside I'll show you some numbers; I already have all 3 (high allagan, astrum, and crafted i90) in my solver.

[EDIT]
Name Strength Determination Critical Hit Rating Skill Speed Accuracy Vitality Weight
High Allagan 24 0 18 0 25 28 27.672
Astrum 24 0 0 25 18 28 28.45
Wolfram 18 12 21 21 18 20 29.922

Wolfram Mask starts out with: 18 STR 0 DET 15 CRIT 21 SS 0 ACC 20 VIT

2 Savage Might IVs, 1 Savage Aim III, and 2 Heaven's Eye IV will bring you to 18 STR 12 DET 21 CRIT 21 SS 18 ACC 20 VIT
With the above meld, you are 2.25 weight above High Allagan and 7ACC below it
and you are also 1.472 above Astrum while at the same ACC.


You could also do the following melds:
2 Savage Might IVs, 1 Savage Might III, 1 Savage Aim III, 1 Heaven's Eye IV to get you 18 STR 15 DET 21 CRIT 21 SS 9 ACC 20 VIT
With this meld you sacrifice 9 ACC for 0.975 DPS weight to bring your crafted helm to its' max weight of 30.897

With the above meld, you are 3.225 weight above High Allagan and 16ACC below it
and you are also 2.447 above Astrum while 9ACC below it

The best part about the Wolfram Mask(crafted i90) is you can get it right now. ^^

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Originally Posted by pompey_dan

I think the crafted belt is the main one to consider. It can cap all secondary stats including accuracy.
This is a perfectly melded one for example:
STR 13
SS 16
CRT 16
ACC 16
DET 11
however it requires 4x tier IV melds with only 1 of them being guaranteed and a tier II last.

To make it alot cheaper you can meld it with 2x tier IV 2x tier III and a tier II det which is what I have done giving:
STR 13
SS 16
CRT 15
ACC 15
DET 11

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I support this, and have done the same thing as you except my CRIT, DET, and SS are capped while ACC is at 15/16 so (Heaven's Eye IV and III instead of 2 IVs)