Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by SteakDriven

Huh? There's a ton of places all across America that are named after native things. The problem is that the towns in Shaaloni are inauthentic - they look like they threw random syllables together in order to "sound" native. I can pronounce the majority of native American-named towns in the real world....but that Miqo'te village? Forget about it.

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To be fair i've not traveled much so i'm not very cultured. I'll take your word for it, meant no offense or anything

It would be funny if EX3 came out and the whole fight revolved around Poochie, with mechanics including but not limited to:

*Players cannot directly attack the boss, as they must instead rely on Wuk's attacks to damage the boss. Instead the boss is just a bunch of looping adds phases where players must kill the adds to prevent them from getting in Wuk's way until she kills the boss herself

*Wuk Lamat has a health bar and if it drops to 0 the raid instantly wipes; players must take turns blocking tethers that attack Wuk and healers must expend consistent GCDs on Wuk to keep her alive

*Players are afflicted with a permanent crippling 99% damage down debuff, the only way to get rid of it is by standing right next to Wuk Lamat at all times

*When Wuk deals 50% of the boss's HP, a 2 minute cutscene plays where Wuk talks to Sphene, reminiscing about how much she learned about Alexandria's culture from her and wishing they can still have peace so she can introduce tacos to Alexandria

*At several intervals a message appears saying "Put your trust in Wuk Lamat!" requiring all 8 players to use the /cheer emote on Wuk to make her do a tank Limit Break, if one player fails to cheer Wuk the party wipes from the next attack

Please look forward to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

It would be funny if EX3 came out and the whole fight revolved around Poochie, with mechanics including but not limited to:

*Players cannot directly attack the boss, as they must instead rely on Wuk's attacks to damage the boss. Instead the boss is just a bunch of looping adds phases where players must kill the adds to prevent them from getting in Wuk's way until she kills the boss herself

*Wuk Lamat has a health bar and if it drops to 0 the raid instantly wipes; players must take turns blocking tethers that attack Wuk and healers must expend consistent GCDs on Wuk to keep her alive

*Players are afflicted with a permanent crippling 99% damage down debuff, the only way to get rid of it is by standing right next to Wuk Lamat at all times

*When Wuk deals 50% of the boss's HP, a 2 minute cutscene plays where Wuk talks to Sphene, reminiscing about how much she learned about Alexandria's culture from her and wishing they can still have peace so she can introduce tacos to Alexandria

*At several intervals a message appears saying "Put your trust in Wuk Lamat!" requiring all 8 players to use the /cheer emote on Wuk to make her do a tank Limit Break, if one player fails to cheer Wuk the party wipes from the next attack

Please look forward to it.

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Not sure how you summed up the entirety of Dawntrail in a boss fight, but you scare me just a little.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

It would be funny if EX3 came out and the whole fight revolved around Poochie, with mechanics including but not limited to:

*Players cannot directly attack the boss, as they must instead rely on Wuk's attacks to damage the boss. Instead the boss is just a bunch of looping adds phases where players must kill the adds to prevent them from getting in Wuk's way until she kills the boss herself

*Wuk Lamat has a health bar and if it drops to 0 the raid instantly wipes; players must take turns blocking tethers that attack Wuk and healers must expend consistent GCDs on Wuk to keep her alive

*Players are afflicted with a permanent crippling 99% damage down debuff, the only way to get rid of it is by standing right next to Wuk Lamat at all times

*When Wuk deals 50% of the boss's HP, a 2 minute cutscene plays where Wuk talks to Sphene, reminiscing about how much she learned about Alexandria's culture from her and wishing they can still have peace so she can introduce tacos to Alexandria

*At several intervals a message appears saying "Put your trust in Wuk Lamat!" requiring all 8 players to use the /cheer emote on Wuk to make her do a tank Limit Break, if one player fails to cheer Wuk the party wipes from the next attack

Please look forward to it.

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But then what would they do for Dawnservant's Journey(Ultimate)?

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

It would be funny if EX3 came out and the whole fight revolved around Poochie, with mechanics including but not limited to:

*Players cannot directly attack the boss, as they must instead rely on Wuk's attacks to damage the boss. Instead the boss is just a bunch of looping adds phases where players must kill the adds to prevent them from getting in Wuk's way until she kills the boss herself

*Wuk Lamat has a health bar and if it drops to 0 the raid instantly wipes; players must take turns blocking tethers that attack Wuk and healers must expend consistent GCDs on Wuk to keep her alive

*Players are afflicted with a permanent crippling 99% damage down debuff, the only way to get rid of it is by standing right next to Wuk Lamat at all times

*When Wuk deals 50% of the boss's HP, a 2 minute cutscene plays where Wuk talks to Sphene, reminiscing about how much she learned about Alexandria's culture from her and wishing they can still have peace so she can introduce tacos to Alexandria

*At several intervals a message appears saying "Put your trust in Wuk Lamat!" requiring all 8 players to use the /cheer emote on Wuk to make her do a tank Limit Break, if one player fails to cheer Wuk the party wipes from the next attack

Please look forward to it.

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The raid team finding this post:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...71/107/fe5.gif

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Originally Posted by Daralii

But then what would they do for Dawnservant's Journey(Ultimate)?

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Just have a series of cutscenes where we watch Wuk Lamat talk to people and we have to choose the right dialogue option to cheer her on with her decisions and if anyone chooses one different answer, you have to start from the beginning. Some also require quick-time emote presses to nod and /cheer her on as she takes down each boss herself. (Obviously joking but could you imagine.)

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I stand by what I say. Wuk is just unrealistic, and the story treats her unrealistically.

Lyse is like a real person and the story handles her as such. She shows up, thinks she can rally everyone, and gets a big cold reality check several times in Stormblood. Even though you could call her temporary raise in lone leadership unearned nepotism it took until the end for her to fully understand what it took to gain people's trust in a rebellion.

Wuk Lamat is like furry jesus. She has no reason to know exactly how to solve everyone's problems and instantly gain their adoration the way she does, given her background of not even leaving her city much. She gets all the perfect qualities of a loving leader injected into her seemingly from birth and that somehow translates into her suddenly being physically stronger than the opposition at one point as well.

Again, someone like Wuk Lamat literally doesn't and could never exist in the real world. She's an idea. Not a person.

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Apologies if you're just saying this for the sake of it, but on the off-chance it is related to my initial statement that Raven2014 directly responded to, that simply doesn't matter to the actual point that was made?

How realistic a character is has no bearing on if the character is a good person or not. A hypothetical perfect character doesn't magically become unlikable because real people have flaws. It only becomes unlikable when a story fumbles and struggles to utilize them in meaningful ways. A claim I made because people are perfectly in their right to like Wuk Lamat for who she is, aka a good, well-meaning individual with likeable traits.

I agree with you, on all these things. But when someone comes in and says "I liked her, I found her funny, kind, etc ...", it's a perfectly reasonable opinion to have because she is. That does makes her a bad or at the very least difficult character to follow in a story.

It's a distinction I believe is important to reinforce at times because way too often media discussion become "I like character" vs "I dislike character" when neither were actually discussing the same thing.

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

It would be funny if EX3 came out and the whole fight revolved around Poochie, with mechanics including but not limited to:

*Players cannot directly attack the boss, as they must instead rely on Wuk's attacks to damage the boss. Instead the boss is just a bunch of looping adds phases where players must kill the adds to prevent them from getting in Wuk's way until she kills the boss herself

*Wuk Lamat has a health bar and if it drops to 0 the raid instantly wipes; players must take turns blocking tethers that attack Wuk and healers must expend consistent GCDs on Wuk to keep her alive

*Players are afflicted with a permanent crippling 99% damage down debuff, the only way to get rid of it is by standing right next to Wuk Lamat at all times

*When Wuk deals 50% of the boss's HP, a 2 minute cutscene plays where Wuk talks to Sphene, reminiscing about how much she learned about Alexandria's culture from her and wishing they can still have peace so she can introduce tacos to Alexandria

*At several intervals a message appears saying "Put your trust in Wuk Lamat!" requiring all 8 players to use the /cheer emote on Wuk to make her do a tank Limit Break, if one player fails to cheer Wuk the party wipes from the next attack

Please look forward to it.

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https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fa/9c/af/f...e-tv-movie.jpg

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Originally Posted by KevinM1

One of the main problems with Wuk Lamat is that they decided to make her a sheltered princess without justifying why she's a sheltered princess. I'm guessing we're supposed to infer that she's young, based on her exuberance, but it's never really spelled out. Moreover, being young in FF14 has never really been a reason for naïveté (see also: the twins, who have been teens/young adults forever). That her brothers are far more accomplished and knowledgeable while she's seemingly learned nothing from their exploits is also baffling.

I think they should have leaned far more into her defining character trait - her love for her people - and inverted her role in the story. Make her the outsider who left home early to live and work among the people. The Turali princess adventurer. That would immediately lend her credibility, both as a traveling companion and Dawnservant claimant. It would also provide multiple avenues for conflict - with Erenville, because she knows the continent better than he does due to his absence; with the other claimants (and the people of Tuliyollal) because she's an outsider by choice. Her growth would stem from transitioning from solving immediate problems as an adventurer to learning how to balance the needs of multiple people and cultures.

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Let’s be real this was on of the most unbelievable infos they gave us. You really in all honesty want to tell me that wuk lamat never ever traveled to any area that is around the capital and never did leave the capital or had contact with any of the people and culture they have ??? Like she’s so into the entire I want to keep peace and happiness of the people and has no freaking idea what this peace and happiness really is from all the different culture and she just comes into contact with it while you help here win the throne and don’t forget she comes in and wins it without any set back or problems because she can Jedi mindtrick people with talking. Years of living in a shit hole of a dark forest and trying to breed the perfect blessed one so he can be king ? Just let wuk have a good talk with them and bam problem solved in less then 2 hours. The old king in comparison must be a bozo even with a head dedicated to wisdom not pulling this stunt off.

God I’m really getting angry thinking about this entire expansion. They really treat us like idiots and think we can’t enjoy a grey story even after we had these stories and strong world building every other expansion. Same with the villains this expansion just pure evil and nothing interesting about them (not even interesting evil, just pure brainrot evil)

Lyse got way too much hate (I blame influencers)

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Let’s be real this was on of the most unbelievable infos they gave us. You really in all honesty want to tell me that wuk lamat never ever traveled to any area that is around the capital and never did leave the capital or had contact with any of the people and culture they have ???

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TBF in the Hanu Hanu zone she said she had gone there at least once for the festival with Lizard Dad. But the way she talked about it sounded like she was a child so she wasn’t paying attention to anything other than “festivals are fun”. But also with her personality I wouldn’t be surprised if that one time she went was the year prior to all the current MSQ either…

Though not to completely defend her because when it was brought up in story I thought it’d mean she’d have something insightful or important to add because some memory would tie into her figuring out why the festival was important, which would help her get the keystone. But she really just lucked into that all working out in the end….

Also, sheltered Princess who never left home and only knows peace and happiness and all that jazz, could have made sense, if she got reality checked at least once. And/Or if at minimum on the surface all of Tural being joined by her dad seemed everyone was cool, but reality was more like Cats vs Lizard area (and maybe the Giants too with that one group who didn’t join the peace and love party). Could have worked well to have her views of the world (aka only inside the city/Tulliyolal) be challenged. They could have wrote her with some actual conflicts to solve to get the keystones, even if it was still just Mediator Wuk Lamat.

Unfortunately, it’s just a lot of “could”s that could’ve been a slightly better story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

It would be funny if EX3 came out and the whole fight revolved around Poochie, with mechanics including but not limited to:

*Players cannot directly attack the boss, as they must instead rely on Wuk's attacks to damage the boss. Instead the boss is just a bunch of looping adds phases where players must kill the adds to prevent them from getting in Wuk's way until she kills the boss herself

*Wuk Lamat has a health bar and if it drops to 0 the raid instantly wipes; players must take turns blocking tethers that attack Wuk and healers must expend consistent GCDs on Wuk to keep her alive

*Players are afflicted with a permanent crippling 99% damage down debuff, the only way to get rid of it is by standing right next to Wuk Lamat at all times

*When Wuk deals 50% of the boss's HP, a 2 minute cutscene plays where Wuk talks to Sphene, reminiscing about how much she learned about Alexandria's culture from her and wishing they can still have peace so she can introduce tacos to Alexandria

*At several intervals a message appears saying "Put your trust in Wuk Lamat!" requiring all 8 players to use the /cheer emote on Wuk to make her do a tank Limit Break, if one player fails to cheer Wuk the party wipes from the next attack

Please look forward to it.

---

And the mount is Wuk Lamat Princess carrying you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BabySneed

It would be funny if EX3 came out and the whole fight revolved around Poochie, with mechanics including but not limited to:

*Players cannot directly attack the boss, as they must instead rely on Wuk's attacks to damage the boss. Instead the boss is just a bunch of looping adds phases where players must kill the adds to prevent them from getting in Wuk's way until she kills the boss herself

*Wuk Lamat has a health bar and if it drops to 0 the raid instantly wipes; players must take turns blocking tethers that attack Wuk and healers must expend consistent GCDs on Wuk to keep her alive

*Players are afflicted with a permanent crippling 99% damage down debuff, the only way to get rid of it is by standing right next to Wuk Lamat at all times

*When Wuk deals 50% of the boss's HP, a 2 minute cutscene plays where Wuk talks to Sphene, reminiscing about how much she learned about Alexandria's culture from her and wishing they can still have peace so she can introduce tacos to Alexandria

*At several intervals a message appears saying "Put your trust in Wuk Lamat!" requiring all 8 players to use the /cheer emote on Wuk to make her do a tank Limit Break, if one player fails to cheer Wuk the party wipes from the next attack

Please look forward to it.

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Please don't, that's scary.

It doesn't make up for anything that has to do with WL, not by a long shot, but the day-time music in Shaaloani is stellar. As are most of the themes, except Tuliyollal, I dislike the jazzy, big band vibe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Let’s be real this was on of the most unbelievable infos they gave us. You really in all honesty want to tell me that wuk lamat never ever traveled to any area that is around the capital and never did leave the capital or had contact with any of the people and culture they have ??? Like she’s so into the entire I want to keep peace and happiness of the people and has no freaking idea what this peace and happiness really is from all the different culture and she just comes into contact with it while you help here win the throne and don’t forget she comes in and wins it without any set back or problems because she can Jedi mindtrick people with talking.

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It's worse than that- it's downright stated she did leave the capital, she went to a past Hanu reed festival where Gulool Ja Ja was the one riding the float. Imagine going abroad to attend a festival- as part of an important political committee no less- and not even knowing how to greet the locals. Even if she were very young (and we know she couldn't have been younger than 5/6, since that's when she was adopted), you'd have been taught this. By her own account, the festival is a fond memory of hers (to the point she expressed she wished she could be the one riding the float one day). So how did she forget such a basic thing? I have Quebecois family and I was taught some very basic French greetings when I was 4 or 5 and I still remember it 28 years later.
She's written like an absolute bleeding idiot- none of her characterization of past story makes sense.

It becomes worse when you realize her father is a storied warrior, ruler and peace-maker. Really, you're telling me Gulool Ja Ja didn't share stories of his past adventures and exploits with his children? That, thought he's a pacifist with a dream of unification, he didn't lecture his children on the different cultures and regions he visited and united? On his past battle and exploits, and how he leveraged his knowledge of local customs and understanding of their issues and aspirations to bring lasting peace?
People who have relatives- like a grandfather or an uncle who fought in a large war- know how, sometimes, they share their war stories, often as a cautionary tale. It violently strains my belief that DT somehow makes it seem that this was never really the case with Wuk Lamat beyond the very superficial story she recounts from the murals. Like, needing to "rediscover" the history behind Xibruq Pibil... did Gulool Ja Ja, the pacifist, ever tell this tale? This sounds exactly like what he should lean on to show the way to peace needn't be bought through force of arms alone. Did she never ask him? Did neither other two siblings? I dunno... my family had a much less remarkable past and I still asked them about their stories. And they paint Gulool Ja Ja as this warm, approachable fellow too. I can't make sense of this in my head. Probably because it's all terrible writing :)

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

It's worse than that- it's downright stated she did leave the capital, she went to a past Hanu reed festival where Gulool Ja Ja was the one riding the float. Imagine going abroad to attend a festival- as part of an important political committee no less- and not even knowing how to greet the locals. Even if she were very young (and we know she couldn't have been younger than 5/6, since that's when she was adopted), you'd have been taught this. By her own account, the festival is a fond memory of hers (to the point she expressed she wished she could be the one riding the float one day). So how did she forget such a basic thing? I have Quebecois family and I was taught some very basic French greetings when I was 4 or 5 and I still remember it 28 years later.
She's written like an absolute bleeding idiot- none of her characterization of past story makes sense.

It becomes worse when you realize her father is a storied warrior, ruler and peace-maker. Really, you're telling me Gulool Ja Ja didn't share stories of his past adventures and exploits with his children? That, thought he's a pacifist with a dream of unification, he didn't lecture his children on the different cultures and regions he visited and united? On his past battle and exploits, and how he leveraged his knowledge of local customs and understanding of their issues and aspirations to bring lasting peace?
People who have relatives- like a grandfather or an uncle who fought in a large war- know how, sometimes, they share their war stories, often as a cautionary tale. It violently strains my belief that DT somehow makes it seem that this was never really the case with Wuk Lamat beyond the very superficial story she recounts from the murals. Like, needing to "rediscover" the history behind Xibruq Pibil... did Gulool Ja Ja, the pacifist, ever tell this tale? This sounds exactly like what he should lean on to show the way to peace needn't be bought through force of arms alone. Did she never ask him? Did neither other two siblings? I dunno... my family had a much less remarkable past and I still asked them about their stories. And they paint Gulool Ja Ja as this warm, approachable fellow too. I can't make sense of this in my head. Probably because it's all terrible writing :)

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Don’t forget this also paints gulool jaja as a complete idiot father and teacher. Like effectively the kids know nothing about culture or history of the land he rules and he didn’t taught his adoptive kids anything or told them anything all these years and then he says in the middle of the crowing trial that they aren’t ready too sit on the throne?????? Like no shit sherlock ofc they aren’t ready if you didn’t teach them shit for over 10 years.

the thing is. all the scions (except alphinaud and alisae appearently) already have like at least 2 decades of life experience. they KNOW how the world works. mainly cuz they are schoalrs/fighters in eorzia.
eorzia IS a brutal place where people would literaly kill you over a simple argument or a sack of 1500 gil.
Wuk lamat is a Young adult (probably around the 18-20 range) has lived most her life as a royalty behind the city walls and knows absolutely nothing.
i can appreciate her shock or wonder in the things she learns. but the sheer level of naive behaviour and just sheer idiocy where sha can't even wrap her head around the fact the world has 13 reflections (or look alike worlds) is just stupid... even my youngest sister when she was 10 years old could understand this concept. gra'ha tia literaly explained it and she's just there with gaping mouth trying to understand even basic principles.

she's forced in too many cutscenes, with a mindset thats TOO MUCH vow of reason rather then Vow of resolve. and seriously... you'd think Goluul ja ja would have taught her about the very nation she lives in in the years she lvied but alas. he's indeed more a king/warrior then a father. i still like the guy tho. not so much wuk lamat.

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Originally Posted by Chrome_Aerial

the thing is. all the scions (except alphinaud and alisae appearently) already have like at least 2 decades of life experience. they KNOW how the world works. mainly cuz they are schoalrs/fighters in eorzia.
eorzia IS a brutal place where people would literaly kill you over a simple argument or a sack of 1500 gil.
Wuk lamat is a Young adult (probably around the 18-20 range) has lived most her life as a royalty behind the city walls and knows absolutely nothing.
i can appreciate her shock or wonder in the things she learns. but the sheer level of naive behaviour and just sheer idiocy where sha can't even wrap her head around the fact the world has 13 reflections (or look alike worlds) is just stupid... even my youngest sister when she was 10 years old could understand this concept. gra'ha tia literaly explained it and she's just there with gaping mouth trying to understand even basic principles.

she's forced in too many cutscenes, with a mindset thats TOO MUCH vow of reason rather then Vow of resolve. and seriously... you'd think Goluul ja ja would have taught her about the very nation she lives in in the years she lvied but alas. he's indeed more a king/warrior then a father. i still like the guy tho. not so much wuk lamat.

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Just quoting you because you are the last comment with the topic.

I don't know were the notion comes from that she was sheltered.
She tells us herself in 6.55 that she goes out hunting.
In the beginning of DT we see people openly interact with her because she is the most approachable.
Its not like she was a disney princess that was never allowed to leave her castle.

The whole festival thing with the birds is also stupid.
Even as a child she should have been able to remember the greeting and I'm pretty sure those VanuVanu also did that in the city (all else would be stupid).

Galool JaJa had his faults as a father yes.
He had some serious favorism going on and the whole trial stuff was short sighted.
But he absolutely did not forbid his children to explore the continent and it's people.
Koana was even allowed to go to Sharlayan and Wuk Lamat was taken to festivals.

If anything his children were the ignorant ones.
Koana never bothering to learn the cultures of the people,
Zoraal Ja only being interested in fighting,
Wuk Lamat being a completely hypocrit with preaching peace and understanding but never having bothered to learn about her people.

One of them learned his erros, one of them died for his idiocy and the third one never changed at all and was succsessfull anyway.

She was just a badly written character. Not the fault of her father in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

I don't know were the notion comes from that she was sheltered.

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Her naivety couldn't possibly have survived contact with anything approaching reality, hence sheltered.

okay while i agree on several of ur comments.

i never said she was a disney princess stuck in her castle. i mentioned things with the word MOSTLY or MOST.
she goes out hunting is fine and all but hunting is not meeting people or learning cultures. its literaly the locating and killing of a prey. wich most likely she did only with landsguard members or other hunters.
if she went out to talk to people so often then how is it she is so ignorant about their cultures and lifestyles? it just shows that she didn't do that to begin with. you cannot socialize with people and not learn jack shit about them unless you literaly aren't listening to what people have to say to you. people find her approachable because she is the only Promise that talks back. (and most of those who mentioned she is approachable are those IN tuliyollal and thus WITHIN the city walls)

yes i blame her father because if he wanted his children to take the throne he should have prepared them much better on what is required to be a dawnservant and not just tell them to go out and find out yourselves. its your job as a parent to prepare your kids for the harsh world outside the city walls. and he failed at that. he's a cool guy. but gulool ja ja isn't a great father when it comes to teaching his kids how fucked up the world really is. they just had to see for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Chrome_Aerial

okay while i agree on several of ur comments.

i never said she was a disney princess stuck in her castle. i mentioned things with the word MOSTLY or MOST.
she goes out hunting is fine and all but hunting is not meeting people or learning cultures. its literaly the locating and killing of a prey. wich most likely she did only with landsguard members or other hunters.
if she went out to talk to people so often then how is it she is so ignorant about their cultures and lifestyles? it just shows that she didn't do that to begin with. you cannot socialize with people and not learn jack shit about them unless you literaly aren't listening to what people have to say to you. people find her approachable because she is the only Promise that talks back. (and most of those who mentioned she is approachable are those IN tuliyollal and thus WITHIN the city walls)

yes i blame her father because if he wanted his children to take the throne he should have prepared them much better on what is required to be a dawnservant and not just tell them to go out and find out yourselves. its your job as a parent to prepare your kids for the harsh world outside the city walls. and he failed at that. he's a cool guy. but gulool ja ja isn't a great father when it comes to teaching his kids how fucked up the world really is. they just had to see for themselves.

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Disney princes was just a over the top comment.

That's what I'm saying. She went out and talked to people so why does she know nothing about them? Is she ignorant?
No, its because of bad writing. There is no deeper meaning besides that.
We absolutely do know that she did that, that she talked with people.
She knew the taco seller and the Mamool Ja next to him who also seleld food.
She knew the PeluPelu who crafted her axe.
When told at the beginning of the two guards that "they would like to keep coming to her and talk" she responded with "I wouldn't want to have it any other way because I love talking with my people" (in one form or another).
So she really actually interacted with her people before we arrived in DT otherwise they wouldn't be so lax about approaching her.

Yes Galool JaJa had a terrible aproach to the Dawnservant thing and made mistakes but no... the children not respecting the people and cultures are their own fault. These arent little children. They are short of adults.
They can and should think for themself even more so if tehy want to rule a country.

I liked both lyse and Zero. She the strong axes behind the throne. Galool Jaja probably still saw them as children at point of death. A father that shelter his children. Aleast her brother has a good head. I think that it was wrong for both her and Alexander ruler. Galool Jaja approaching to exposed them to outside the city state was good one too. There alot comparison to Diana ie wonder woman yet Diana is still smart by gift of Athena

Just came to this thread to share some thoughts. I played through the story pretty quickly because I was enjoying myself so much. I thought the new lands were interesting, enjoyed the story, and grew attached to the new characters...especially wuk lamat. I was very surprised after I finished to hear how many people dislike her. It also makes me sad. Like...I want to be her bestie and go on adventures. Her and G'raha Tia are welcome in my trust anytime haha.

She was a little obnoxious at first and could be corny...but I appreciated that about her character and enjoyed her growth. Just a differing opinion. I don't think she ruined it at all. Some criticism I see people say is reasonable and I've had a few debates. Some people just seemingly hate her for no reason which is confusing. But I guess not everyone will always enjoy every character.

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Originally Posted by Tekotako

Just came to this thread to share some thoughts. I played through the story pretty quickly because I was enjoying myself so much. I thought the new lands were interesting, enjoyed the story, and grew attached to the new characters...especially wuk lamat. I was very surprised after I finished to hear how many people dislike her. It also makes me sad. Like...I want to be her bestie and go on adventures. Her and G'raha Tia are welcome in my trust anytime haha.

She was a little obnoxious at first and could be corny...but I appreciated that about her character and enjoyed her growth. Just a differing opinion. I don't think she ruined it at all. Some criticism I see people say is reasonable and I've had a few debates. Some people just seemingly hate her for no reason which is confusing. But I guess not everyone will always enjoy every character.

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I am happy for you, really am. Always good to hear a different sound. Sadly I can't share your view of her. To me, she took so much away from Krile and Erenville, it simply is criminal. There are scenes, where she doesn't belong and even my rl cat knows her bounderies and has respect for my personal space. Not Wuk Lamat tho, she hoggs every spare moment we have, is annoying to a point it's nauseating. I have over 40 days left to play, came back after a 3 months break, will take another break till this is over.

Currently don't have the stomach to finish the MSQ, leveling a new character from scratch as we speak. Just to get away from that....

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Disney princes was just a over the top comment.

That's what I'm saying. She went out and talked to people so why does she know nothing about them? Is she ignorant?
No, its because of bad writing. There is no deeper meaning besides that.
We absolutely do know that she did that, that she talked with people.
She knew the taco seller and the Mamool Ja next to him who also seleld food.
She knew the PeluPelu who crafted her axe.
When told at the beginning of the two guards that "they would like to keep coming to her and talk" she responded with "I wouldn't want to have it any other way because I love talking with my people" (in one form or another).
So she really actually interacted with her people before we arrived in DT otherwise they wouldn't be so lax about approaching her.

Yes Galool JaJa had a terrible aproach to the Dawnservant thing and made mistakes but no... the children not respecting the people and cultures are their own fault. These arent little children. They are short of adults.
They can and should think for themself even more so if tehy want to rule a country.

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Aren’t all the people mentioned only within the city? Most of her interacting with people seemed like it was mainly with those who lived with Tulliyolal. She was approachable and sociable with the city people but other than, one time out with dad for Hanu Hanu festival and goes out for hunting, we’re not shown or told she’s done more than those things to interact with Tural citizens outside of Tulliyolal.

So theoretically the inside the city people, which are a melting pot, should be different than who’s outside. And if she had interacted with people outside the city she could have said more things like, the Hanu Hanu in the city love tacos but outside the city reeds a main food staple. But if I’m remembering correct she only has surface knowledge of everyone at best, and at worst she knows nothing and Erenville filled in the gaps for her.

Guloool Ja Ja we needed more stuff with him about how he raised the kids. Cuz yeah they’re adults now but also how’d they all go this long with not one of them being even 50% worthy of being Dawnservant? Did he at a certain point just be like, well you’re on your own to learn about the cultural of continent you live on and if you need advice just read the stone pillars about how I united everyone? And then Koana bounces of to Sharlyan, Zareel Ja does his thing, Wuk Lamat stays at home eating tacos and engaging with city citizens?

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Originally Posted by Papayatar

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Just because those people are in the city doesn't mean they don't live their culture I think (and it's "only" been 80 years since the fighting stopped. The city is probably far younger in this form.
Even in real life culture is preserved for generations.
The PeluPelu are still traders and take care of Alpaca in the city.
The HanuHanu should still use those plant things and the greeting between them wouldn't be droped because they live somewhere else.
The entire story tells us that culture should be presevered.
So even if she was mostly in the city she should have seen at least some cultural stuff of those people in my opinion.

Agreed that we needed more scenes of Gulool JaJa to flesh his point of view out.

He clearly taught them fighting and the most basic things about culture.
At one point though even children need to find answers for themself. That's actually what they did to a certain extent. Everyone of them found their own answer in the beginning but in the end only two of them were told as correct.
The entire trial stuff was about using the base that they were taught and meld them into someone who could lead the country.
The biggest problem was though that Gulool JaJa from the start wanted a new Dawnservant that had HIS view of the world. Culture and technology (he approved of the Aetherytes).
Zarool Ja and Bagool Ja never had a chance in the first place (not that I pardon their ways mind you) but not everything of their thinking was wrong.
Valigarmanda WAS dealt with through strenght and might in the end not by talking or technology. In the Ff14 world a certain "army" is needed to protect against wild life.
I think if the story showed that all of the combatants had their drawbacks it would have been better and that the trials were actually about teaching that instead of just respecting the cultures.

That's the biggest fault of him in my eyes. his onesided approach to all this and favouring one single approach.

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Originally Posted by Papayatar

Guloool Ja Ja we needed more stuff with him about how he raised the kids. Cuz yeah they’re adults now but also how’d they all go this long with not one of them being even 50% worthy of being Dawnservant? Did he at a certain point just be like, well you’re on your own to learn about the cultural of continent you live on and if you need advice just read the stone pillars about how I united everyone? And then Koana bounces of to Sharlyan, Zareel Ja does his thing, Wuk Lamat stays at home eating tacos and engaging with city citizens?

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No surprise Zoral Ja turned the way he did with an absentee father like that.
Writers probably don't have kids of their own because they failed Gulool Ja and they failed WoL mentoring role.

Such a pity because Gulool Ja has an interesting past (that pretty much makes him a Mamool Ja WoL), but it looks like that between his Quest and our arrival, he did absolutely nothing but neglect his children even when Wuk Lamat go out of her way to say the contrary.
It's such a jarring oversight, to make this specific storyline work.

Also surprising enough, we did mentored Zero and she was eager to learn, observed our actions, didn't hesitate to question...just like a kid would do.
With Wuk Lamat we just played the role of cameraman and were stripped of any agency, we didn't teach anything, she's just like those pesky kid that think they always know better.

This story could be told in a better way if WoL went to Tural without any involvement in the succession race and sometimes our path crossed with theirs.

We would truly explore and learn at our own pace instead of getting the "Tourist Adventurer's Guild package" (Grandia anyone?)

I'mma be honest, I don't think she's a Sheltered Princess so much as the culture in Tural is so underdeveloped that she forcibly comes off that way.

The Hanuhanu are actually a great example of what should've been. Here is a small village, Wuk tells us they love to party, they throw festivals every year, she even went to one! Great! Then we learn it's the other way around, they party because they must. The festivals are a requirement for a good harvest. Well, what actually happens is the birds didn't know the harvests needed a festival either, so they really ... do just love to party. Dang it.

But still, if Wuk could introduce every culture as "This is what they are, what they like to do, etc", and then the trials were about learning the "Why" she wouldn't come off as a Sheltered Princess. But instead it's a coin flip if she does that or not and the why is never/barely discussed, so every culture comes up flat.

The reality is all three siblings are "sheltered". The entire trial is meeting the people to learn about their culture. Which is weird, they should all have been thought that ages ago, with the trials being how well they understood it. And more importantly, how well they understand their own people, which again the writers seem to have been trying to do that, but they were so casual about it, like they didn't really want to expand on the stuff despite making it the core justification for the story.

I think trying to talk about Wuk Lamat's shortcomings in characterisation is missing the forest for the trees. The issue is that the new writing team seemingly don't know how to execute a full character arc across the form of an MMO expansion story and that is infinitely more concerning to me than one dud character.

Wuk Lamat is the worst offender because she eats up like 90% of the screen time and devours the characters arcs of everyone else in the process, but the same core writing issue can be felt with Zero, Golbez, Koana, Bakool Ja Ja and ESPECIALLY Zoraal Ja. These characters are NOT lacking, but they are explored in the most cookie-cutter, wishy-washy, half-baked ways that the players are sat here scratching our heads and making character analyses to fill in the blanks on the writers' behalf.

'You just lack media literacy!' is becoming more and more of a catch-all handwave to ignore opposing opinions on social media but this isn't a question of media literacy at all - it is a question of execution. Stories are written for the layman and not people who 'read as a writer' so if a story or a character isn't hitting with a wide swathe of the audience then there is no other way to look at it than as a clarity fault with the writing team.

Wuk Lamat is Hiroi's 'OC donut steel' whether by design or by accident and that is a failure. The Rite of Succession is a contrived mess and that is a failure. The tribes are all homogenised into singular traits that define their people and that is a failure (and also borders on problematic). The new characters are doomed to be poorly explored and that is a failure. The tonal dissonance of getting a nation together to build a train-turmed-nuclear-warhead while High School Musical plays in the background is a failure. The embarrassing contrivances needed to push the story along like letting Zoraal Ja walk free from Tuliyollal is a failure.

The writing team have simply failed. Wuk Lamat is a primary victim of a far more ominous outlook on the quality of future content, not the perpetrator of a bad story.

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Originally Posted by Remiferia

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Having a character take that much screen time is, in itself, symptomatic. You have a varied cast, but no one's allowed to breathe. There are legitimate moments where characters want a private moment with the WoL... and Wuk Lamat just forces herself into them. I watched Cider's playthrough recently, and I didn't realize that she accompanies Koana when he asks for a moment with the WoL to give you some new gear (actually wiped from my mind... that, or I skipped that cutscene). She wasn't necessary there, she added nothing of value, and detracted from the scene by divesting it of some intimacy and potential moments of characterization and development. This happens constantly.

As for the "media literacy" comments, a lot of it feels, to me, like people using the text as an end-all justification. Like a mutated argument from scripture- the script says X, so X is true and implicitly justified... regardless of how X is portrayed, the fact that's it's often Y shown on screen, that, in the past, the story and lore said Z instead of X, and that the justification of X contradicts/retcons fundamental pillars of the past stories/world-building.
I gave this example before, but it's as if in 8.0 the story went "bananas are the source of Dynamis" and further went "actually, Meteion had a secret garden of banana trees, that's why she could manipulate it... also, the WoL is part-banana"- many people would see the contradiction and call it out, saying it's bogus. But I bet someone would immediately crawl out of the woodwork to go "didn't you read the quest?!?! It's all about the bananas, they explain Meteion had tons of bananas on the edge of the universe, and the WoL is part banana! Media literacy is dead lol!". You see this a lot if you raise an issue with the characterization, retconning or lore inconsistencies in DT (and already saw in EW).
If you stretch your suspension of disbelief enough and accept any retcon presented in the body of the text without questioning, then anything is possible really. Even the banana-WoL.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

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I think 80 years is reasonable enough for cultures and practices to meld a fair bit. At minimum the Mamool Ja citizens would be changing cuisine since they’re not limited to rainbow bananas, and whatever gets secretly traded with the Xbr’aal. The Mamool Ja and Xbr’aal interacting at all probably started a culture change quickly compared to the ones that stayed in their respective zones not or barely interacting.

I think Pelu Pelu are the only ones that kinda stayed the same since the Custom Deliveries area is run by one and the Alpaca stand too.

So far the city HanuHanu don’t seem to use the greetings of the town or incorporate reeds like they did in their zone? The idle NPCs I’ve run into are eating tacos or drinking and if they’re not doing that there’s none locked into doing the Hanu greeting to others for NPC flavour. The only Hanu I remember taking to at length was Donuhanu for the deliveries quest but it was fish related and I don’t think he talked about Hanu culture like say in the BTN/MIN one where we got how Tural Viera/Shetona operate differently than the ones across the ocean.

Honestly I think the story didn’t do a good job at the culture preservation part within the city. We go outside the city it’s a prominent theme but inside the city what’s shown more to us is just that everyone is united. Maybe it’s shown in the city side quest? If it is I haven’t done those.

Yeah Gulool Ja Ja is IDK weirdly done. Yeah kids become adults and should eventually go and discover and learn about the outside world on their own, but like you said since it seemed his goal for picking a replacement was someone close, or identical, to his own views it was already going to be biased to whoever just naturally was like that. Which just happens to be Wuk Lamat because the story said so.

It wouldn’t have been that bad if we got some info that he had hinted or tried to push all his kids equally to that idea and that was more or less what he was looking for in a replacement. Then maybe we could get a clearer motivation for Zareel Ja hating his dad and siblings and not just “I gotta live up to high expectations” but also “the game was rigged from the start”, and he could resent his dad for only wanting a similar replacement and hating Wuk (and Koana) because they were getting favouritism and preferential treatment becase of it.

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Originally Posted by Balmung_Griffin

No surprise Zoral Ja turned the way he did with an absentee father like that.
Writers probably don't have kids of their own because they failed Gulool Ja and they failed WoL mentoring role.

Such a pity because Gulool Ja has an interesting past (that pretty much makes him a Mamool Ja WoL), but it looks like that between his Quest and our arrival, he did absolutely nothing but neglect his children even when Wuk Lamat go out of her way to say the contrary.
It's such a jarring oversight, to make this specific storyline work.

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Def think cuz his relationship with his kids was undercooked he comes off as neglectful cuz all we get about him as a parent is Wuk being like “my Papa is great and amazing” and Zareel at the 13th hour being like “I hate my dad and this family”.

His questionable parenting is semi-highlighted when he’s surprised Zareel Ja became the way he did. Like you didn’t notice one of your kids was a silent brooding guy and didn’t question it? He’s like those parents who never check on their kid who stays locked up in their room 25/8 and are surprised when something serious happens.

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Originally Posted by Papayatar

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That's more or less what i was saying xD.
The problem is the writing itself. Sorry if it's hard to understand. I tend to rambling on such things.

Do we actually know how old the city is?
The fighting was stopped 80 years ago and i would guess most of Gulool JaJa's time was spend building it afterwards.

But the thing with the HanuHanu greeting is one I can't accept.
It's introduced as extremely important to them. They wouldn't give it up because they live in a city now.
Look at the bowing in japanese or the handshake here in europe.
These are all small but important greeting customs that don't change because people live in a city even in one with different cultures.

Thank you for bringing the quest things up. I haven't done fisher yet so I didn't know it.

Yeah I agree, there is huge shift between inside the city and outside it in narrative but if the Pelupelu are anything to go by it shouldn't be such a huge gap normaly.
Maybe I saw wrong but the foodstands seem to be mostly run by Mamool ja and Hrtothgar so their cutlure actually also seems to still exist.

Completely agree with you on the Gulool JaJA and Zoraal Ja points.


I think DT has had a very good premise and good characters but was completely ruined by the handling of it, most of all Wuk Lamat.
It's like they took the story board itself and forgot to write around it.
It all probably makes sense in the devs head but falls flat as a written stoy.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

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Oh ok! We’re on the same page sorry for misunderstanding.

Actually! That’s a good question how old is the city? Maybe it’s a little older because they have a lot built up. I think they said it was an old Giant settlement that got repurposed but with how thriving it is, even for at minimum an 80 year period, he must have gotten started earlier so the earlier adopters helped build the city and in the 80 year slowly getting more people to build it to what it is now.

I think the Hanu Hanu greeting thing, if relating it to handshakes and bows, would be like if a Japanese person moved to USA and USA to Japan. Initially they may do it in the first months because it’s ingrained into where they came from. They’ll change to adapt the new location and do whatever fits that area. But, I will say you’re right it doesn’t just go away, using the IRL example, that kind of thing even if you’ve been out of your home country for decades like if a family member comes to visit the greeting happens.

So I wonder if what we’re really seeing just a result or the current/younger generation who might not put as much emphasis because of the melting pot thing. Like how you get kids of immigrants sometimes going against tradition or actively choosing not to because they’re not in parent/grandparent home country so they don’t see it necessary to keep up and/or their peers aren’t only from family country so they’re not gonna do it or demand others do it. Like they might do it at home but outside of that not so much.

Plus like imagine early Tural having communication break down because the Hanu require the greeting in addition to the tensions that will still be there initially with the Mamool Ja and Xbr’aal even though they came to get away from that. They def had to make adjustments so I’m guessing the younger generation might not adhere to the older generation traditions.

Also, I think the only thing that actual shows people are continuing with cultural traditions in Tural is in one of the BTN/MIN delivery quests. And that’s a little complicated because it’s with a Viera/Shetona. So it’s possible the person is 80+ and has continued with important cultural stuff so that’s why it’s still going. So I’d want to see what their kids and grandkids are doing.

Oh I didn’t mean the vendors! There are NPCs around Aunt Tii’s stand that are Hanu who are eating tacos or drinking, a few others are scattered, but their dialogues or emotes don’t show anything that’s like base level traditions are being maintained. Like you could swap them for any other race in Tural and it’d be the same.

But yeah, DT has elements of good story but the writers borked it, to the point it seems there’s more effort into piecing the story and lore together here on the forums than what the writers presented us with lol.

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Originally Posted by Papayatar

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I forgot about the giants building the city.
You are right the structure itself probably already existed then and was just "refurbished".

Hmm I think it would be more like if someone moved on their own continent. Japan-USA would be Othard-New World I think.
You are right though with the younger generation. those usually tend to forgo rites and culture in a city. I think it was also said that the die hard conservatives stayed in their old homes. Maybe that has something to do.
I don't think The Hanu greeting would be a dealbreaker for communication personally. The entire city was build around accepting each other so I wouldn't be surprised if people just learned and adapted some things and just went with the flow.

I havent finished the DoH quests yet (busy farming a mount that doesn't seem to exist) just starting them right now. So far the sidequests do a pretty good job at telling things that should have been in the MSQ. I think the aether current quests are some of the best we have gotten till now.

I think, as harsh as that sounds, the NPC's all doing the same emotes as any other race is just minimum development as is the whole no culture in the city thing.
The devs didn't implement any of it and I don't even think it's lazyness or so, just saving money by copy pasting assets.

I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence. It's so damn sad what we got when all the potential was there.
It's like having all the good parts for a modell and then assembling it all wrong, breaking things and patching it up with glue.

Is Wuk Lamar woke no does overwhelmed personality yes. Is gulool Jaja a good father no. The issue seems he didn't give each child time experience the world

Wuk Lamar is spoiled hot head head strong want be center of attention and navie not used hardship. The product of private child

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

Is Wuk Lamar woke no does overwhelmed personality yes. Is gulool Jaja a good father no. The issue seems he didn't give each child time experience the world

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Frankly I think Gulool Jaja is a bad character, up there with Wuk Lamat or even worse.

He seems to be a bad father given how one dimension all 3 of his characters are. But ... is he even a good ruler.

The most baffling aspect about his rule is the story of the Mamook Ja ... you know ... his own people?

So the Mamook Ja was so desperated that they decided to dig a tunnel through the mountain and committed to a bloody war to a better life.

Gulool Jaja appeared, give them a meal and just tell them to go home. Yay, great ruler!!

But from what we see, he literally did NOTHING to address the concern or the root cause of the war during the 80 years of his rule

The Mamook Ja was still suffering, was still desperate. Probably even more so than before.

Is there a message in wok lamah character she everything are young people are

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

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I think we’re not supposed to look too closely if Gulool Ja Ja was a good ruler (or father tbh) or not because then we’ll see all the cracks and duct tape barely holding his legacy together.

The Mamook issue was like a hole in the wall though. Like we’re told both sides were fighting, he and his group stepped in (sounds like they battled both sides) to get them to temp ceasefires. I think all we get is both sides were like, wow Gulool Ja Ja’s group overpowered both of us because they accepted their difference and used their strengths to work together. And the way it’s presented to us him forcing a sharing of meals broke some of the tension and then the rest is history and everything is hunky dory come to Tulliloyal if you want to live together or stay here and no fighting ok ;’).

But present day we have, the two groups just don’t fight anymore but there’s still conflict. So much so that the follow NPC aethercurrent quests reveals they neither group has set aside their difference enough to openly trade resources. With, those topside, one of the important resources being the bananas that are used to make their unified cuisine from when everything was “settled”.

Toss in it was revealed that toddler Wuk Lamat was purposely injured (or attempted murder?? She was pushed into a hole or something) and it was assumed to be by people from Mamook that still held a grudge.

You’d think maybe if he was a good ruler he’d IDK look into that incident a little harder than, I’ll just adopt her to protect her from the bad Mamook. Like that’d be a good time to go, maybe I need to readdress the relations and issues with Mamook. Maybe double so whenever he learns of Bakool Ja Ja’s existence because he should be aware of the pains it takes to have another two head successfully.

His whole thing was about unifying people but he ignored what was going on in his home town after he checked off stopping the war in that area and got them to have dinner together. Mission accomplished?