Translations (JP to English)

These aren't the Yoshida posts you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

He apologized. I accept it. I've also revised my hopes for the game.

The workshop under the housing sounds interesting. Does this mean that crafters no longer have to go to the guild for support?

@Reinhart: Perhaps the word is "Exclusivity"

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Ya, of course I wrote that before it was translated XD but in reality he is right in how he brings it up. The game as it was wouldn't work to enjoy all the content. When you see how the storyline progressed it was nothing more then a "reward" for reaching x level which really takes away from the challenge of it all. But there is hope while of course land/hand won't be able to see one aspect of the story they should have access to the story that others can't see.

I think the issue comes down to signifying the war/magic story as the main storyline, which makes the other discplines feel like sideline classes that won't be able to have any content that is unique to them in exploring or discovering more lore that war/magic might not have access to. While from what was said it might not be the case at least I don't think it will be, I do hope that when all the smoke clears up they'll have a decent balance of quest and plots for the disciplines and do their best not to focus on the fighting aspect since the MMO stigma is pretty much it's all about fighting so they should get the most focus.
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@Reinheart
"不可侵 fukashin
読み方：ふかしん
（名詞） inviolability; sacredness; nonaggression "

I was looking at that trying to figure out how it fit into the sentence. The best I can think is perhaps he was trying to say how each class has it's own unique properties to it and he doesn't want to taint them by adding aspects to one discipline that would take away from the unique features of another class. At the same time though as an adventurer while each discipline may have it's own unique flavor to it you do have the opportunity to play as any class so in reality you have the option to enjoy everything.

"For this fighting, gathering, and crafting; 3 features, each class types are equal so when looking from “class”view point I believe being unique to each other would bring out enjoyment.

However if you look at viewpoint from “Adventurer” there isn’t any uniqueness
That is because if you spend time, and class, any feature can be played.

I think the best way to think about it is he's basically saying when you are a fighter, gatherer or crafter you only have access to abilities from those respected disciplines and are unable to access fighting abilities as a crafter or crafting abilities as a gatherer. Though as an adventurer you have the potential to play as any discipline allowing you the potential to play as you like and not be tied down to one discipline.

No offense, but there is little point in spending all this effort and contemplation over one obscure word. The gist should still be understandable. Trust me on this one kids

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Originally Posted by Victor

No offense, but there is little point in spending all this effort and contemplation over one obscure word. The gist should still be understandable. Trust me on this one kids

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lol sorry it was new word for me, probably seen it before but didn't bother reading and skipped it lol

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Originally Posted by Airget

@Reinheart
"不可侵 fukashin
読み方：ふかしん
（名詞） inviolability; sacredness; nonaggression "

I was looking at that trying to figure out how it fit into the sentence. The best I can think is perhaps he was trying to say how each class has it's own unique properties to it and he doesn't want to taint them by adding aspects to one discipline that would take away from the unique features of another class. At the same time though as an adventurer while each discipline may have it's own unique flavor to it you do have the opportunity to play as any class so in reality you have the option to enjoy everything.

"For this fighting, gathering, and crafting; 3 features, each class types are equal so when looking from “class”view point I believe being unique to each other would bring out enjoyment.

However if you look at viewpoint from “Adventurer” there isn’t any uniqueness
That is because if you spend time, and class, any feature can be played.

I think the best way to think about it is he's basically saying when you are a fighter, gatherer or crafter you only have access to abilities from those respected disciplines and are unable to access fighting abilities as a crafter or crafting abilities as a gatherer. Though as an adventurer you have the potential to play as any discipline allowing you the potential to play as you like and not be tied down to one discipline.

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OK so uniqueness was close/right had that in my comment in there but wasn't sure if but was the best one that could fit in there. lol

Wow, thanks for taking the time to translate this post Reinheart. :)

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

now what the hell is 不可侵 ... looked up since it's not something I usually see/read
Looked it up online and it shows the following.

不可侵 fukashin
読み方：ふかしん
（名詞） inviolability; sacredness; nonaggression

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Fukashin is the root word in the phrase "fukashinjyouyaku", which means something like "non-aggression" treaty.

What Yoshida was saying was that the way the game is set up now, the three main disciplines (battle, gathering, crafting) are all intruding on each others' space so that while from an Adventurer's perspective you can do everything on any class, from a class' perspective, you are hindered due in part to the limitations imposed on you by the other disciplines.

Because of that, he wants a sort of "nonaggression treaty" amongst the three disciplines so that instead of getting in each others' way, each discipline helps to support the others.

That's why he also used the example from Ultima Online. In that game there were no specific jobs or anything. You just learned whatever skills you wanted to learn. Eventually, when you wanted to specialize, you ran into problems, which is why if you wanted to get the full UO experience from each character role, you needed to make multiple characters that fit different roles.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Fukashin is the root word in the phrase "fukashinjyouyaku", which means something like "non-aggression" treaty.

What Yoshida was saying was that the way the game is set up now, the three main disciplines (battle, gathering, crafting) are all intruding on each others' space so that while from an Adventurer's perspective you can do everything on any class, from a class' perspective, you are hindered due in part to the limitations imposed on you by the other disciplines.

Because of that, he wants a sort of "nonaggression treaty" amongst the three disciplines so that instead of getting in each others' way, each discipline helps to support the others.

That's why he also used the example from Ultima Online. In that game there were no specific jobs or anything. You just learned whatever skills you wanted to learn. Eventually, when you wanted to specialize, you ran into problems, which is why if you wanted to get the full UO experience from each character role, you needed to make multiple characters that fit different roles.

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mmk "fukashinjyouyaku" now that word I've seen before on news...... didn't really pay attention to it.... orz

makes perfect sense now, arigatou :)

Well, I really am sorry you had to waste your time translating that Rein. What a ridiculous waste of everyone's time. He literally just spewed the same runaround that he has been giving DoL since the day he announced he was going to ignore them. Honestly, how hard is it to answer one simple question.

"How do you think you can make DoL better?"

"Add more items" is not the answer. People want more to do than just Grind on gathering points.

We'll add housing customization for DoL.. by adding more items they can gather.. Yea, thats going to be new and exciting.

Seriously, he can just say one or two things he's considering adding for CONTENT and saying but it might not work so we'll look into it..

I an curious to see if this somehow actually satisfied the JP players.

I Feel bad for Yoshi-P that they are bashing him over the old teams promises, when he clearly stated several times that DOL/DOH will be taking a back seat, and it is no longer this dev teams promise to make them able to do everything DOW/DOM can do.

why pay 13 dollars a month for a fishing mining harvesting simulator?
That doesn't sound very Final Fantasy if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Well, I really am sorry you had to waste your time translating that Rein. What a ridiculous waste of everyone's time. He literally just spewed the same runaround that he has been giving DoL since the day he announced he was going to ignore them. Honestly, how hard is it to answer one simple question.

"How do you think you can make DoL better?"

"Add more items" is not the answer. People want more to do than just Grind on gathering points.

We'll add housing customization for DoL.. by adding more items they can gather.. Yea, thats going to be new and exciting.

Seriously, he can just say one or two things he's considering adding for CONTENT and saying but it might not work so we'll look into it..

I an curious to see if this somehow actually satisfied the JP players.

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Eh? There's a lot in there about how he's going to improve the system so that the three disciplines can exist more harmoniously and that each discipline has content that is specific for that discipline so you don't end up with what we have now of non-battle classes trying to complete battle-oriented content by throwing rocks at scary monsters while an NPC kills it for you.

It was a pretty good post outlining the overall direction of gathering in future updates, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I Feel bad for Yoshi-P that they are bashing him over the old teams promises, when he clearly stated several times that DOL/DOH will be taking a back seat, and it is no longer this dev teams promise to make them able to do everything DOW/DOM can do.

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I dont think anyone is expecting them to do as much but they dont want to be left completely behind.
ArchAge which is an upcoming MMO is doing a thing where players will have labor power that will be used to build player housing. SE could add something like that for DOLs where they would be the ones we gotta rely on to build/upgrade our residence. Botanist job could maybe become furniture maker or something. They dont have to be included into everything but people want more than just hitting a spot for hours.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I Feel bad for Yoshi-P that they are bashing him over the old teams promises, when he clearly stated several times that DOL/DOH will be taking a back seat, and it is no longer this dev teams promise to make them able to do everything DOW/DOM can do.

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Reading the posts after YoshiP's post and there are some still giving hard time to YoshiP it's kind of ridiculous if you ask me... one is saying that it says on the package that you can play as only Gatherer or Crafter and now you can't which is false advertisement and can be reported... it's like.... wow really!? you bought a game just to play gatherer/crafter for years and years in a MMORPG!?

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Reading the posts after YoshiP's post and there are some still giving hard time to YoshiP it's kind of ridiculous if you ask me... one is saying that it says on the package that you can play as only Gatherer or Crafter and now you can't which is false advertisement and can be reported... it's like.... wow really!? you bought a game just to play gatherer/crafter for years and years in a MMORPG!?

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JP trolls, oh man I wish I could understand those guys just for the laughs

Ya, I don't think they understood Yoshida's message, what he said did make sense, if they try and split the story content into land/hand/fight it would take a lot of resources so it would be really hard to pull off and keep consistent. If you keep it as it is now story will be nothing more then a progression line for completing whatever the objective was which is boring and very unappealing for those that would like challenges in the story.

I don't think they consider how much work it actually takes to basically rebuild an mmo from scratch and for what they've had to work with they are doing a good job. While one can hope that they may add some concepts for land/hand next VU if I read what they said correctly it seems as if Yoshida wants to push out housing asap so that land/hand have a big amount of content to play with before the release of 2.0 though I could be wrong.

Honestly they should appreciate all the potential the future has for land/hand while yes it may come down to. Basically what it seems to come down to is when sub fees come up the ones who mainly wanna focus on land/hand don't want to play so they won't pay for the game and the economy may be hit a bit but it will rebuild itself as the months pass and more content is added that they want lol.

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Originally Posted by Cichy

I dont think anyone is expecting them to do as much but they dont want to be left completely behind.
ArchAge which is an upcoming MMO is doing a thing where players will have labor power that will be used to build player housing. SE could add something like that for DOLs where they would be the ones we gotta rely on to build/upgrade our residence. Botanist job could maybe become furniture maker or something. They dont have to be included into everything but people want more than just hitting a spot for hours.

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They said crafters would be involved in residence stuff so that would indirectly involve gatherers too. It really doesn't make sense for botanist to be making furniture when we have a carpenter already. The gardening stuff would be interesting for DoL to do. Botany would obviously get plants, Fisher could have their own fish to raise, dunno what Miner could have.

@ Airget: It's really a small minority of people that refuse to play battle classes so economies shouldn't be hit THAT much since the game has been around this long there's more than enough high level crafters and gatherers.

Thanks for the translation work Reinheart. Its like the English forum shoutbox up in here.

I doubt the economy will hurt that bad if those gatherers don't pay, the majority of people I know in game have multiple disciplines leveled so it will just go on as before.

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dunno what Miner could have.

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They could raise little coblyns of course :P

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Reading the posts after YoshiP's post and there are some still giving hard time to YoshiP it's kind of ridiculous if you ask me... one is saying that it says on the package that you can play as only Gatherer or Crafter and now you can't which is false advertisement and can be reported... it's like.... wow really!? you bought a game just to play gatherer/crafter for years and years in a MMORPG!?

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I am primarily a crafter/gatherer but I also level up battle jobs (not at first though since battle was hard on a crappy pc and now I have an awesome pc) but even I know that the game I bought in 2010 and what the plans for it were are no longer in play and the game in 2011 is vastly different. I seem to remember that DoL and DoH were supposed to be able to level in battle with DoW/M classes and have their own abilities for it but even that went byebye before release.

The game has changed a lot since original purchase and if people on the JP side cannot understand that then I don't know what to say. It is a new producer and team and they are doing a new story. I am sad that crafter and gatherer will be no longer main class but secondary to DoW/M but nothing we can do about that unless Tanaka takes back control and brings back his original plans for the game and I just don't see that happening. lol

YoshiP must though design content for us crafters/gatherers (more choices in gear as well) because the grind is tedious. Gatherers definitely need more to do and take away the grind. How about some GC crafting and gathering leves with boosted exp? That would give DoL's more leve's to choose from to help level up. I do enjoy doing the supply runs for GC but I won't be doing those until I can turn in the amount I want and not have to constantly go through the menu to turn in my 3 stacks of branches at 3 branches at a time.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

They said crafters would be involved in residence stuff so that would indirectly involve gatherers too. It really doesn't make sense for botanist to be making furniture when we have a carpenter already. The gardening stuff would be interesting for DoL to do. Botany would obviously get plants, Fisher could have their own fish to raise, dunno what Miner could have.

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As all three gathering classes I can build myself a pretty little flower/vegetable/fruit garden with a big pond full of all kinds of fish with a rock garden off to the side? xD

To be honest I would be pretty happy if they just gave us 8 leves for each DoL/DoH at each level range in each city.

Thats enough content for me for the time being.

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Originally Posted by Dhalmel

why pay 13 dollars a month for a fishing mining harvesting simulator?
That doesn't sound very Final Fantasy if you ask me.

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Doesn't matter if it's called Final Fantasy or Dark Age of World of Everquest. The box says what the box says. The game was advertised to be a kind of game where a DoL or DoH could enjoy the game just as much as a battle class. And for a year the devs have been mum to the fact that that concept is out the window.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

To be honest I would be pretty happy if they just gave us 8 leves for each DoL/DoH at each level range in each city.

Thats enough content for me for the time being.

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Would be brilliant since we gotta run to all those far camps. It would be even better if we could get those leves at the camps.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Doesn't matter if it's called Final Fantasy or Dark Age of World of Everquest. The box says what the box says. The game was advertised to be a kind of game where a DoL or DoH could enjoy the game just as much as a battle class. And for a year the devs have been mum to the fact that that concept is out the window.

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Just because each discipline can't participate in the exact same content (since having a gathering class try to complete battle content is stupid) doesn't mean that DoL or DoH can't enjoy the game just as much. There will be stuff for everyone.

if u play this game and only play DOL OR DOH class only then you have some major malfunction. GO play farmville if your that simple minded lol.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Just because each discipline can't participate in the exact same content (since having a gathering class try to complete battle content is stupid) doesn't mean that DoL or DoH can't enjoy the game just as much. There will be stuff for everyone.

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No Yoshida's refusal offer them any content means they cant enjoy the game. I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the people complaining just want Yoshida to stop telling them they are unimportant and offer them something to do.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Just because each discipline can't participate in the exact same content (since having a gathering class try to complete battle content is stupid) doesn't mean that DoL or DoH can't enjoy the game just as much. There will be stuff for everyone.

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Depends on your definition of fun, really. Be the battle class exclusivity already is showing. Chocobos only can be obtained as a battle class.

I'm not saying I understand the mentality of wanting to be only DoH or DoL, I'm just saying I can sympathize. They bought a product as it was advertised and it no longer fulfills that roll. Yoshida just officially retracted that statement so that means those people no longer get to play the game they bought.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Doesn't matter if it's called Final Fantasy or Dark Age of World of Everquest. The box says what the box says. The game was advertised to be a kind of game where a DoL or DoH could enjoy the game just as much as a battle class. And for a year the devs have been mum to the fact that that concept is out the window.

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And it can, just in a different way, game is still going through some pretty big changes, Yoshi already outlined what he has planned for gatherers and crafters end game if its not enough then I guess those people have the choice not to play the game.

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Yoshida just officially retracted that statement so that means those people no longer get to play the game they bought.

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No they have the choice to play it differently or lower their expectations.

If you buy a single player game and it turns out crap and doesn't live up to your standards/expectations do you moan and whine at the developer ?

Obviously MMO's are seen slightly differently because we are expected to pay a monthly fee, but heres the thing we haven't been paying for this game.

As Yoshi-p said in one of his letters that if we don't feel the game is up to our standards after 1.20 then don't pay for it.

I paid the same price as a single player game and have got a lot of hours play from this game, so I would say that all in all I have had my monies worth, if i continue to pay for the game yes I expect certain things, but nobody is forcing me to do that.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

No Yoshida's refusal offer them any content means they cant enjoy the game. I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the people complaining just want Yoshida to stop telling them they are unimportant and offer them something to do.

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There is no refusal to offer content. It is coming. Just wait.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Depends on your definition of fun, really. Be the battle class exclusivity already is showing. Chocobos only can be obtained as a battle class.

I'm not saying I understand the mentality of wanting to be only DoH or DoL, I'm just saying I can sympathize. They bought a product as it was advertised and it no longer fulfills that roll. Yoshida just officially retracted that statement so that means those people no longer get to play the game they bought.

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Content is coming. Just wait. He didn't say anything about "abandoning" DoL or DoH.



Also, this discussion needs to be moved to another thread.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Depends on your definition of fun, really. Be the battle class exclusivity already is showing. Chocobos only can be obtained as a battle class.

I'm not saying I understand the mentality of wanting to be only DoH or DoL, I'm just saying I can sympathize. They bought a product as it was advertised and it no longer fulfills that roll. Yoshida just officially retracted that statement so that means those people no longer get to play the game they bought.

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Really this should be a new thread... lol but anyways...

you're right like I said before on this thread before YoshiP's post I started this game since it was announced you can play the game not being a battle class, for me that reminded me of when SE made Romancing Saga 3 where one character your roll was to play the stock market and they had a whole different system up till certain point of the game story so when I heard about this for FF14, I was like COOL I'll play miner...

But since then the gatherers mini-game was boring so I quit that but still was hoping there is a chance that this will be fixed later on but today with YoshiP's post it confirmed it's not possible to pursue the main story or have a story of its own being a miner. That's alright for me cuz I got level 50 Puglist and I knew it was probably going to end up this way in the long run being a MMORPG. At least for me I can understand what YoshiP is saying, it's really hard to make a story line possible for everyone in a MMORPG, specially if the game started off all screwed up like FFXIV did lol.

At least YoshiP is still trying to keep the game so gatherers/crafters can be played and they will try their best to make fun contents for them but as for the main story goes, it's goodbye... hey at least gatherer/crafters might have cool side-quests which is related to the main story and you have to be those classes to see that side of the story... to me that cool/good enough.

Now those few people/trolls on the JP thread saying you're going against what's on the package is just ridiculous lol, YoshiP apologized and took back the old teams statement and if the those gatherer only players still can't get it, they should really stop playing FFXIV imo.

Can someone link the translated post, I cant find it o.O

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Really this should be a new thread..

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Done YoshiP DoL/DoH translated post

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Depends on your definition of fun, really. Be the battle class exclusivity already is showing. Chocobos only can be obtained as a battle class.

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Only the chocobos from the grand companies. But chocobo raising is coming later... with 2.0

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Now those few people/trolls on the JP thread saying you're going against what's on the package is just ridiculous lol, YoshiP apologized and took back the old teams statement and if the those gatherer only players still can't get it, they should really stop playing FFXIV imo.

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Either those people are idiots, or they're new to the series. The entire history of the franchise is centred around the idea of a ragtag group of heroes/adventurers fighting to save the world from a great evil. At no point in the equation did you ever find them sitting down and having to craft ingots for 4 hours just to make themselves the equipment they'd need to proceed. Anybody who's familiar with Final Fantasy should have seen this coming from a mile away.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

Either those people are idiots, or they're new to the series. The entire history of the franchise is centred around the idea of a ragtag group of heroes/adventurers fighting to save the world from a great evil. At no point in the equation did you ever find them sitting down and having to craft ingots for 4 hours just to make themselves the equipment they'd need to proceed. Anybody who's familiar with Final Fantasy should have seen this coming from a mile away.

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Ever play XI?

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Originally Posted by Quanta

Either those people are idiots, or they're new to the series. The entire history of the franchise is centred around the idea of a ragtag group of heroes/adventurers fighting to save the world from a great evil. At no point in the equation did you ever find them sitting down and having to craft ingots for 4 hours just to make themselves the equipment they'd need to proceed. Anybody who's familiar with Final Fantasy should have seen this coming from a mile away.

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To be fair.. You're comparing an RPG to an MMORPG... It doesn't equate to quite the same thing. Rules change when the MMO element is added into the mix.

His point is valid though. A large goal of 2.0 is to make the game feel more like "Final Fantasy" games which don't have crafting/gathering (at least not in this capacity, i know there have been systems kinda like it before, FF11 aside). It makes sense to focus on the battle part of the game since it is the part that is going to appeal to the most series fans and the most players in general.

Reinheart has it right. This game has been very clearly steadily shifting towards more of a focus on battle classes for a very long time now. It stinks for those people that don't want to play them but in the long run it will be better for everybody to get content geared towards their classes instead of making it general and crappy for everyone.

Reinhart<Translation Thread><May I have it?><Thank You!>

Seriously, these discussions regarding crafters & gatherers needs to move to the thread with the official translation.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...683#post439683

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

To be fair.. You're comparing an RPG to an MMORPG... It doesn't equate to quite the same thing. Rules change when the MMO element is added into the mix.

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Not really. At the end of the day, MMOs have their roots in MUDs, which have their roots in tabletop gaming, particularly Dungeons & Dragons. As far as I'm aware, career crafting has never been a thing in D&D, and I doubt that the blacksmith with no combat experience is going to be able to help in the Tomb of Horrors while everyone around him dies in the most horrific fashion imaginable.

I mean, you can certainly have small modules that focus on the life of a blacksmith or whatever (which is where things are headed), but you're stretching things just a tad when you put it into their heads that, yes, they can also defeat the Death Demon From Beyond The Dark Crystal Dimension that becomes the centre of the game's story by debating the rising costs of iron ore with it. The very concept is completely untenable in a fantasy game of magic and monsters.

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As far as I'm aware, career crafting has never been a thing in D&D

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Neither were subscription fees.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

Not really. At the end of the day, MMOs have their roots in MUDs, which have their roots in tabletop gaming, particularly Dungeons & Dragons.

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Not really. At the end of the day, Dungeons & Dragons have their roots in ancient mythology.

As far as I'm aware, there were no Paladins in Mein Kampf.