Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

She makes axes sell. It's crazy.
https://i.imgur.com/zkz5lKs.png

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

I also don't see how a duel with rubber bullets "decisively and finally sets their differences", which was supposed to be a unique idiosyncrasy of their culture that they were trying to move away from. Like... if we're having a fight and you shoot me with a rubber bullet, why is it final? I didn't die, does the bullet make me not-pissed? I guess you could say they used to be duels to the death, but they changed it to rubber bullets after law enforcement got established- but then, why do the npcs say "let's settle this the old way"? That's not the old way at all... is it?
I imagine they wanted to do Wild West, but then went "omg they might find this barbaric... we can't have a negative aspect to a subculture in this continent, they must all be perfect. Can you change it so we keep the duels but they're non-lethal?"
Everything in DT is so... sanitized.

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And this was after Koana shot Bakool Ja Ja in the face several times with actual bullets... So I really don't get the point of making them rubber bullets especially since he just shot the gun out of his hand.

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Originally Posted by Lynaval

After yet another quest, that had me "Talk to Wuk Lamat" I jus burst out laughing. Not because it was so funny, but the sheer absurdity of this questline. I don't think it was possible to hate a bunch of pixels this much, but here we are....Glad I am almost done with....whatever this is.

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"Speak with Wuk Lamat" is the ride that never ends.

https://i.imgur.com/c2d0a39.png

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Originally Posted by SteakDriven

Okay somehow hidden blocks don't count towards the character minimum. 20+ years of forum technology existing....for the love of crispy tacos.

I thought that Gulool Ja assumed that Wuk Lamat meant that she intended to kill Otis, who has been more of a father to him than Zoraal Ja, which is why he was scared. When she clarified, then he opened up to her.

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The forum's a bit retro like that, yeah... Just had some trouble posting because some token had expired and wouldn't renew.

I rewatched the cutscene to make sure, and it looks like Gulool Ja heard Wuk Lamat talk about killing Zoraal Ja. Despite Zoraal Ja being the way he is, I guess it's terrifying to hear when the kid's still hoping to have his father's love.

Anyway, I just went to "Speak with Wuk Lamat" one last time and that's the 7.0 MSQ done. My last and indeed lasting impression of her is her suffocating need to talk to people no matter what - she even said that near the end too, that she's going to talk to Sphene even if she won't listen. It really didn't help that when she was being removed from the arena and immediately when she came back, her focus was on Sphene not letting her talk. It would be funny if it weren't played so straight. Imagine, she's so clingy she's breaking through the veil between realities so she can get to know and understand her new target for friendship extraction at any cost. That's dark comedy material right there!

I'm not even excited for 7.1 because there is no way they're gonna be able to pivot quickly enough in response to how people feel about Wuk Lamat, 7.1 will just be more of her shenanigans and Tural already has just left a bad taste in my mouth. For the first time in a looooooong time I'm ALMOST just content to let my sub lapse and not come back until who knows when. I've done MSQ and hated most of it, levelled the new job that interested me to max, cleared both extremes, I don't even feel like finishing getting the rest of my favorite jobs to level cap like I used to and I don't do savage. Meanwhile you've got tweets on twitter hitting thousands of likes and retweets with arguments like "oh you're just bad at the game lol the difficulty spike is why you hate dawntrail" or something like "y'all have been the main character in this story for a decade step aside sweetie, we were INVITED to Tural as a guest" or my favorite "IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE MSQ OR WUK YOU HAVE NO MEDIA LITERACY LOL!!!" Just makes it all that easier to step away from the game altogether for some people.

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Originally Posted by ViaDesperare

She makes axes sell. It's crazy.
https://i.imgur.com/zkz5lKs.png

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Wuk Lamat-sama, I kneel.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Maybe I'm a minority but I always found the whole rubber bullet things as hilarious and sad.

We went from seeing Tesleen getting gut like a fish, transformed into a horrendous monster in real time in front of a child to a zone that's supposed to be the wild west with real cowboy, corrupt cops and outlaw ... and thing settle with rubber bullet? Like ... common.

The former is enough to earn a NSFL tag, the latter felt like a bad Disney paradogy.

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Another thing I noticed, although relatively minor, was with the FATEs against the bandits. Previous expansions had no qualms just having us slaughter human enemies when their HP is gone, they play the death animation and fade away, but here instead they run away after all their HP is gone. It's relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, but it does come across as oddly inconsistent; this is the same game with Tesleen being skewered, Teledji being sliced in half (albeit off-screen), war, genocide, conquest, but a few bandits slaughtering merchants? Nah they gotta live, never mind that they have no qualms in killing us, but we can only subdue them.

The rubber bullets thing just furthers the whole problem of being tonally inconsistent with the rest of the game. I'm sure for some we'd prefer it if characters could incapacitate wherever possible instead of kill, but Hydaelyn / Eitherys has always been shown to be rather brutal and that such ideals, while admirable, aren't always possible.

Also not gonna lie, I thought the whole "the victor of the duel is proven right" thing was stupid. When Ishgard did it, there was at least the idea that divine providence would be shown through the victor, but here it's just... might makes right with no other justification. Not to mention when Ishgard did that, it wasn't portrayed in a positive light and showed why we wanted to pretty much fight against the powers that be in Ishgard. But in not-Texas, we're okay with it?

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Originally Posted by ViaDesperare

She makes axes sell. It's crazy.
https://i.imgur.com/zkz5lKs.png

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Good lord not even the Levequests are safe.

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

You bring up a good point. They were trying to be "respectful" of cultures, but then they sanitize something that was a part of early American culture? Yes, duels didn't historically happen all the time like in the movies, but they did happen. Hell one of our founding fathers was killed in a duel with the vice president. And one of our presidents, Andrew Jackson was a notorious duelist.

If they didn't want to have the duel end in death, there are ways around it. Historically, many duels were about honor. Both participants would just shoot into the ground because they had no intention to harm each other. Also before the invention of rifling, a lot of duels just ended with both participants missing each other, shrugging their shoulders because honor was satisfied, and goin home.

Whatever "cultural sensitivities" CBU3 was adhering to seems to be directed towards a group of people who wouldn't care that they got American culture wrong.

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The rubber bullet thing was the first time in game where I thought "Wait, are they having some westerners write for them now?!?" because its such a weird western culture warrior way to sanitize American wild west gun culture. Japanese writers usually have no problems with portraying a violent gun culture, indeed its the usual meme in Japanese media when presenting "americans".

Yeah...rubber bullets, childish dialogue, escaping bandits etc. Wuk Lamat is basically an idealistic child in an adult body. Are they really thinking by alienating their adult audience, they will get 5-10 year olds to pay for new expansions and a monthly sub lol?

On the other hand I just finished Genshin's summer side story, and for a story literally about origami animals, toy soldiers and a lego dragon - it is way more mature, interesting and has more emotional beats than the entirety of Yawntrail :confused:

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Originally Posted by Zaniel

The rubber bullet thing was the first time in game where I thought "Wait, are they having some westerners write for them now?!?" because its such a weird western culture warrior way to sanitize American wild west gun culture. Japanese writers usually have no problems with portraying a violent gun culture, indeed its the usual meme in Japanese media when presenting "americans".

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I feel like Hiroi doesn't remember shit about the lore despite having worked on the game for years. Or maybe he just doesn't wanna acknowledge anything he didn't previously write? I mean, we had a gun duel not that long ago. It had some pretty good animations and someone getting shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBZu1UBpH2c

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Another thing I noticed, although relatively minor, was with the FATEs against the bandits. Previous expansions had no qualms just having us slaughter human enemies when their HP is gone, they play the death animation and fade away, but here instead they run away after all their HP is gone. It's relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, but it does come across as oddly inconsistent; this is the same game with Tesleen being skewered, Teledji being sliced in half (albeit off-screen), war, genocide, conquest, but a few bandits slaughtering merchants? Nah they gotta live, never mind that they have no qualms in killing us, but we can only subdue them.
.

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And also immediately right after is the token "why do people become bandit? Maybe if their lives were better they won't become bandit?" mention.

And when you get to Mehwahhetsoan, there is another token "industrial development is bad for environment and wild life" mention.


Like ... it's weird. Don't get me wrong, FF14 being preachy is nothing news. Sometime even Alphinauh annoyed me of how preachy he is way before DT, and the whole peace and friendship isn't really a Wuk Lamat exclusive. But the thing is in the past, the virtual signalling when it happens, it felt substantial, with intend and purpose, and with effort to make it part of the story. Like the whole Ultima Thule zone felt like a sermon to me, but it was written into a full story. With DT though ... like you said they're just minor detail, token mention that makes me go "huh? Why do that or say that here?". It's like ticking checkboxes, or they're there so they can take an out of context snapshot and put it in a report later to make some ... underwriter happy.


One one hand, they're just minor that doesn't really affect anything important right now. Collectively though, together with the transition to a new writing team and a new era for the game ... it does make me a bit concern if this is the new direction they gonna take the narrative from now on?

I can live with not being the main focus of the story, thats completely fine.

as long as no one expects me to save the world again. I will point them in the direction of Wuk Lamat and tell them to bugger off.

we have fought gods, we have saved the star a time or two, traveled to the end of the universe to fight an immortal emo bird girl... but we need Wuk to save us from a rogue AI?

maybe Graha can fanboy on the Wukie and leave me alone.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

One one hand, they're just minor that doesn't really affect anything important right now. Collectively though, together with the transition to a new writing team and a new era for the game ... it does make me a bit concern if this is the new direction they gonna take the narrative from now on?

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You think if nothing is done that the direction will only get worse? Considering the voice side of things and preaching of diversity, and then ending up being racist with tacos being the whole culture... I feel like if we don't get the message across, then the writing team is going to push hard in a direction we won't like.

Feels like any feedback is useless... Well unless we make a huge noise about it.

I cant help but thinking someone with important position in the dev saw wuk lamat design and went crazy love with her and want the whole game expansion to be focus on her, idolize her in all glory, remind me back in ff13 where the dev admit he love lightning so much he want her to be everywhere and always mentioned even when she is not there.

Also my friend who play DT finally reach the end of succesion rite, and i totally agree with his saying about wuk lamat

"its shoujo manga. The whole DT expansion is just a shoujo episode, wuk lamat is your happy go lucky and innocent princess accompany with trustable handsome group of his friends, daringly went to each province to solve problem. Its the usual stichk shoujo fantasy manga princess together with the capture target love interest (only in this case she already fixed her target to us WOL), and his "cool" brother who turn out to be very caring to her which also accompany with 2 hot dudes. The whole thing is just your shoujo fantasy manga done in ff14"

Lmao

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Originally Posted by Daralii

"Speak with Wuk Lamat" is the ride that never ends.

https://i.imgur.com/c2d0a39.png

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Given the physical ranged role quest devs are fully aware how overused and boring this "speak to" crap is

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ebd4c2643d038&

yet they keep doing it and don't even allow us snarky responses in MSQ?

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Originally Posted by gumas

I cant help but thinking someone with important position in the dev saw wuk lamat design and went crazy love with her and want the whole game expansion to be focus on her, idolize her in all glory, remind me back in ff13 where the dev admit he love lightning so much he want her to be everywhere and always mentioned even when she is not there.

Also my friend who play DT finally reach the end of succesion rite, and i totally agree with his saying about wuk lamat

"its shoujo manga. The whole DT expansion is just a shoujo episode, wuk lamat is your happy go lucky and innocent princess accompany with trustable handsome group of his friends, daringly went to each province to solve problem. Its the usual stichk shoujo fantasy manga princess together with the capture target love interest (only in this case she already fixed her target to us WOL), and his "cool" brother who turn out to be very caring to her which also accompany with 2 hot dudes. The whole thing is just your shoujo fantasy manga done in ff14"

Lmao

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Please don‘t call my WoL their love interest… I think I‘m going sick.

But yeah I agree. Wuk Lamat really seems like someone on the dev team in a high position fell madly in love with her.
I wouldn‘t be surprised if they already have fan merchandise of her made and now think „oh crap“.

Or the devs really, really thought that would be what the players want.
She actually seems like having G‘Raha‘s genki go lucky scenes turned up to eleven.
Food obsessed, acting „cute“ (I find her creepy), loving her people and giving speeches.
They forgot that:
A: G’Raha has an actually deeper side to him
B: Quit a number like the crystal exarch and not that side of G’Raha.

Yoshida said on an interview that G‘Raha became so good obsessed because players were positive about the burger scene and the made it his personality.

If that’s the case then we have the problem of the devs being WAY out of touch with the playerbase regarding DT‘s MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Given the physical ranged role quest devs are fully aware how overused and boring this "speak to" crap is

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ebd4c2643d038&

yet they keep doing it and don't even allow us snarky responses in MSQ?

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I wouldn’t be surprised if these are different writers and they only got directions for the overall feel.
Makes me wonder how many of the devs gave warning beforehand or think as us. They are also human after all.
I‘m also against targeting all the devs (not you mind you) because the level designers, sidequests people and battle content devs did an amazing job.


By the way. How do I actually impede an image in this forum? I was always wondering.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Given the physical ranged role quest devs are fully aware how overused and boring this "speak to" crap is

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ebd4c2643d038&

yet they keep doing it and don't even allow us snarky responses in MSQ?

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These kind of lines are usually localisation only.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Please don‘t call my WoL their love interest… I think I‘m going sick.

But yeah I agree. Wuk Lamat really seems like someone on the dev team in a high position fell madly in love with her.
I wouldn‘t be surprised if they already have fan merchandise of her made and now think „oh crap“.

Or the devs really, really thought that would be what the players want.
She actually seems like having G‘Raha‘s genki go lucky scenes turned up to eleven.
Food obsessed, acting „cute“ (I find her creepy), loving her people and giving speeches.
They forgot that:
A: G’Raha has an actually deeper side to him
B: Quit a number like the crystal exarch and not that side of G’Raha.

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graha work because he starting to act like that only because he finally free from everything he endure and work for, his hardship and endless work he do in shadowbringer cost him so much, it take almost everything to try to summon us and after that a lot of things happened, at the end he is happy and even accept his fate knowing full well everything is in good hands. he know he will die but what he didnt know is that we save him and even bring him back to our world.

current graha now is a person who free from his old responsibility. guys is basically free, he defeat his own hell and finally reach heaven and welcomed by his dream team. we as human will always know that feel, the feel free from work from chore from everything, just having fun with your best bud, living your best life.

what did wuk lamat do? she came to hired us, she talk to people and problem solved, we went somewhere else and.... she talk to them again.... and problem solved.... again.

seriously where is wuk lamat when endsinger about to end the universe, we could just send wuk lamat alone to talk with endsinger and the whole endwalker expansion probably never happen

Almost done with the MSQ after a 3 months break, it's time to hit the breaks again. This expansion is beyond saving.

Spheeeeen, listun tu miiiiii

Just sliding in the thread again to leave this youtube video here, since it made me laugh quite a bit. :D (Spoiler Warning for DT MSQ though)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyJ7fxN5YQ0

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Originally Posted by Isseki

Spheeeeen, listun tu miiiiii

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Ugh just reached that part yesterday. I didn't have much problems with the VA (I just play the mindset of "she's a spanish speaker (like me) trying to speak english") but that part NEEDED a big freaking scream and didn't deliver.

Then I had a laugh when I saw that everybody in the chat was typing "spheeeen" xD

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Originally Posted by Isseki

Spheeeeen, listun tu miiiiii

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stuff like this made me so glad i play this with jp voice lol

also, is this just me or i feel like they "disneyfy" a lot of stuff in this expansion? heartfelt succession trial, bakool jaja went complete attitude personality change after 1 scene, rubber bullet duel? invasion only killed 50 people? ok this one a bit stretch but i always assume tural is huge city with population around thousands or something like that, it just the usual ff14 condensed everything to "small size" so we player dont move a lot in it

I'm a tad late to the rubber bullet discussion, but to add to how ridiculous thing is, when Zoral Ja's army tried to attack again, they defeated armored soldiers and ships by shooting them with rubber bullets. Unless I missed something and they suddenly switched to actual bullets, none of this makes sense. Because in the very first attack on Tuliyollal you can see that steel weapons aren't enough to break their armor. If anyone wants to see https://youtu.be/WDRv6jQrOgc?si=nJK-98yp0IXVnv3D 1:00 where Gulool Ja Ja can't pierce this soldier with his heavy weapon but I guess rubber bullets can smh)

"If we put real bullets in our guns against the invading robot-people army, it'll make us just as bad as them."

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Originally Posted by Keiizah

I'm a tad late to the rubber bullet discussion, but to add to how ridiculous thing is, when Zoral Ja's army tried to attack again, they defeated armored soldiers and ships by shooting them with rubber bullets. Unless I missed something and they suddenly switched to actual bullets, none of this makes sense. Because in the very first attack on Tuliyollal you can see that steel weapons aren't enough to break their armor. If anyone wants to see https://youtu.be/WDRv6jQrOgc?si=nJK-98yp0IXVnv3D 1:00 where Gulool Ja Ja can't pierce this soldier with his heavy weapon but I guess rubber bullets can smh)

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Maybe they’re “special” rubber bullets that are somehow safe enough to fire at people, but also can disable or seriously damage robots of unknown/alien metal :/. They could have went with that (special rubber damages alien metal) but then how would Estinien be able to help fight. Unless they gave him a rubber lance/spear and we missed that hand off lol

Also even IRL rubber bullets still can hurt a ton with serious or fatal injuries so…don’t see how much “safer” rubber bullets are other than lowering deaths by duels.

But overall the rubber bullets just are nonsensical especially in the invasion context. It’s like, is the robot army super strong cuz it’s hard to use normal metal weapons on them, or are they so weak if we throw a bouncy ball at them they go down easily enough for a small western town +1 OP Dragoon too take them out.

Edit: Also, let’s imagine they switched from rubber to real bullets for the fight. Where did the real bullets come from and how’d they get enough to defend the town in short order? The story kinda sorta implies the rubber bullet thing has been around for a while so I’d assume they wouldn’t keep real bullets for a “just in case” scenario. Especially with how there’s like 0 conflicts, in Tural as a whole, that seemingly can’t be easily solved with peace talks or food.

I’d maybe believe they had real bullets tucked away somewhere if the crooked deputy kept them for his gang. That would have been interesting to add to the stealing for riches side job he had maybe.

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Originally Posted by Papayatar

Maybe they’re “special” rubber bullets

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https://i.imgur.com/WUmLVVb.png

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

I feel like Hiroi doesn't remember shit about the lore despite having worked on the game for years. Or maybe he just doesn't wanna acknowledge anything he didn't previously write? I mean, we had a gun duel not that long ago. It had some pretty good animations and someone getting shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBZu1UBpH2c

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Didn't that screenshot that shows what Hiroi has worked on say that he worked on 5.5?

Ahh the irony my phone is either spying on me or YouTube is uncanny...

https://youtu.be/ot3VQ0FeZS8?si=2ES9e0E1xIwbkb88

Not to be a party pooper but I think you guys are thinking too hard about the rubber bullets, or at least backwards. That is to say, I was under the impression that the rubber bullets were exclusively for duels, not the other way around, hence the red-headed guy going "Using rubber bullets, of course", as if to bring attention to the fact that that's not the usual ammunition in those guns.

Granted it's still dumb, like someone got worried duels to the death would be too savage or uncivilized (which, to be fair, I agree with) but that's where you probably add a "If the duel ends in death, there are no winners and the killer gets jailed" rule instead to enforce some civility.

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Originally Posted by LisseyCrowe

Granted it's still dumb, like someone got worried duels to the death would be too savage or uncivilized (which, to be fair, I agree with) but that's where you probably add a "If the duel ends in death, there are no winners and the killer gets jailed" rule instead to enforce some civility.

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It's like ... if you decide to include a scene someone get shot in the chest, than you should also show the blood and bleeding. Imagine if you see that scene with the character get shot, another NPC hold their hand crying as they're dying, lying in their own puddle of ... water (?) How would you feel about that? For me I'm pretty sure any kind of tension intended for the scene would immediately evaporated, and that's the kind of effect the rubber bullet thing had on me in term of the zone impression.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

It's like ... if you decide to include a scene someone get shot in the chest, than you should also show the blood and bleeding. Imagine if you see that scene with the character get shot, another NPC hold their hand crying as they're dying, lying in their own puddle of ... water (?) How would you feel about that? For me I'm pretty sure any kind of tension intended for the scene would immediately evaporated, and that's the kind of effect the rubber bullet thing had on me in term of the zone impression.

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In all honesty I don't know why you'd ever expect a graphic depiction in this game and expansion (the few times we get anything it's for unique cases, not a side quest to a sidequest in all but name), but ...

I think the mistake was bringing attention to it at all. If the guy was shot with normal bullets, fell down, groaned for a while and got back up because he's wearing armour no one would've batted an eye. Might even have made the kid look cooler since he's in a tank top iirc?

Why are people settling things with gun duels at all? Because it's a western reference? I can suspend my disbelief when a beast tribe does something weird, but when it's all humanoids going "MIGHT MAKES RIGHT, MIGHT MAKES RIGHT" and we go along with it it just seems cringe. Even the Scions/Player only go that once nothing else has worked.

I really hope we get a few patches where we can hang out with Thancred, Y'Shtola, or Estinien for a while. You know, to cleanse the palette.

It's funny... there's a part about halfway through DT where Wuk Lamat wants us to stay with her, and internally I went "Ma'am, the moment you're finished talking I'm teleporting back to Ul'Dah."

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Originally Posted by LisseyCrowe

In all honesty I don't know why you'd ever expect a graphic depiction in this game and expansion (the few times we get anything it's for unique cases, not a side quest to a sidequest in all but name), but ...

I think the mistake was bringing attention to it at all. If the guy was shot with normal bullets, fell down, groaned for a while and got back up because he's wearing armour no one would've batted an eye. Might even have made the kid look cooler since he's in a tank top iirc?

Why are people settling things with gun duels at all? Because it's a western reference? I can suspend my disbelief when a beast tribe does something weird, but when it's all humanoids going "MIGHT MAKES RIGHT, MIGHT MAKES RIGHT" and we go along with it it just seems cringe. Even the Scions/Player only go that once nothing else has worked.

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Emet's first appearance in Stormblood had him get shot dead with a closeup on his corpse's face, and the post-Elpis cutscene with Venat had her caked in blood. They can't have a character collapsing in a pool of their own blood for age rating reasons, but they didn't shy away from pushing what they could get away with either. A duel using real bullets, someone taking one, and having some red around the wound and on the ground wouldn't be at odds with how things were in the past.

Gah. Japan's content restriction laws are even worse than America's nowadays. The entire Diet needs to be replaced with people who actually enjoy life.

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Originally Posted by LisseyCrowe

I think the mistake was bringing attention to it at all.

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I'm not sure you are disagreeing or agreeing with me but ... that is kinda my point though? If they're not ready to go all in with it, than do it at all. Having no duel is better having a duel with rubber bullet.

The point of the example I gave is if they are not ready or can't show blood, they can:

- Come up with a difference scene instead of getting shot.

- Getting shot and fade to black.

- Adjust the camera angle so the wound is not visible on screen.

But if they gonna build a scene showing a person getting shot lie dying in a puddle of liquid sipping from the wound, that liquid better be blood and not water.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Emet's first appearance in Stormblood had him get shot dead with a closeup on his corpse's face, and the post-Elpis cutscene with Venat had her caked in blood. They can't have a character collapsing in a pool of their own blood for age rating reasons, but they didn't shy away from pushing what they could get away with either. A duel using real bullets, someone taking one, and having some red around the wound and on the ground wouldn't be at odds with how things were in the past.

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And those are important scenes, which means they can go against their usual rule of no blood and gore because it's paramount to show it.

This is a dumb scene in yeehaw town about comically evil NPC #3 who minutes before had to run from his base because of burning dinosaur poop pheromones, in an expansion that wants to advertise itself as a cheery vacation and, up to this point, was and is still presenting itself as so. You can't casually turn this scene into a gory execution without rewriting the entire area if not Dawntrail as a whole.

I guess my point is it's not worth talking about it on it's own, when the entirety of Dawntrail is soft. It would be incredibly poor writing for just this one case not to be. Now if we wanna talk about that softness, hell yeah. But maybe it deserves it's own topic. To bring it back to our Lord and Savior Wuk herself, this rubber bullet situation is the equivalent of saying she ruined Dawntrail because the "dropped Taco scene during the intro was forced and stupid" when we all agree it's the least of our worries.

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Originally Posted by LisseyCrowe

Not to be a party pooper but I think you guys are thinking too hard about the rubber bullets, or at least backwards. That is to say, I was under the impression that the rubber bullets were exclusively for duels, not the other way around, hence the red-headed guy going "Using rubber bullets, of course", as if to bring attention to the fact that that's not the usual ammunition in those guns.

Granted it's still dumb, like someone got worried duels to the death would be too savage or uncivilized (which, to be fair, I agree with) but that's where you probably add a "If the duel ends in death, there are no winners and the killer gets jailed" rule instead to enforce some civility.

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Ok that makes a little bit more sense if that’s the only use.

But then like, who’s holding each party accountable for only having rubber bullets in the chamber lol. Would’ve been cool if the deputy cheated with real bullets but was a crap shot.

And depending on if you don’t care if you kill someone in a duel the threat of “you’ll go to jail” doesn’t mean much tbh.

Though if duels are that dangerous why even relegate them to rubber bullets someone getting shot with anything other than a water gun isn’t exactly pleasant. Might as well solve problems with rock, paper, scissors. Because being a better duelist doesn’t make you any more right than winning rock, paper, scissors does.

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Originally Posted by LisseyCrowe

Why are people settling things with gun duels at all? Because it's a western reference?

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Yes, this is most definitely why and probably no other real reason. Just your stock Western movie references, duels, crooked law enforcement, also a train is there, and the optional interact with Native peoples.

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Originally Posted by Papayatar

Ok that makes a little bit more sense if that’s the only use.

But then like, who’s holding each party accountable for only having rubber bullets in the chamber lol. Would’ve been cool if the deputy cheated with real bullets but was a crap shot.

And depending on if you don’t care if you kill someone in a duel the threat of “you’ll go to jail” doesn’t mean much tbh.

Though if duels are that dangerous why even relegate them to rubber bullets someone getting shot with anything other than a water gun isn’t exactly pleasant. Might as well solve problems with rock, paper, scissors. Because being a better duelist doesn’t make you any more right than winning rock, paper, scissors does.

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Agreed! I think this is entirely stupid and, like more things in Dawntrail, uses real world references instead of substance.

The moment a skilled evildoer appears killing, stealing and [redacted] will all become legal, because apparently winning a duel makes you right. It's insane.