Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

And yet the toxic casuals are absolutely free to sneer about the concept of improvement, bitch endlessly about theoretical toxicity that has no basis outside their own hallucinations, and carry the torch for the TOS-shielded Mean Girling that's rampant in FF14's community. But this is okay, because at least it means we can't....*gasp* see facts or learn anything. Ew.

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It's okay. Let them (them in general, not the person you're replying to specifically before anything I'm about to say gets twisted around) be hypocritical/disingenuous. Anyone with half a brain isn't going to assume everyone is like forums Firemage in game. The scapegoating on a hypothetical parser is quite humorous. Also it's funny how people claim this board is not indicative of the community as a whole... but now we're trying to use this board as an example of what the community would do...

I still have yet to run into these supposed WoW players that constantly scream about damage meters "daily". And I run a *lot* of dungeons. Actually since Dragonflight dropped most of my dungeons have been entirely silent. l thought I was back in 14 for a bit.

And once again we are going ALL OR NOTHING on this whole debate. There is a hypothetical where regulars dungeons don't get a parser added
That hypothetical does exist, y'all can lay down your torches and pitchforks!

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

I'll call Edda and we can schedule something.

Question is. Who'll be wearing the dress? One? Both? Neither?

Firemage is obvious tho, whatever they wear has to be dalamud red.

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Wait...those kind of weddings usually require sacrifices and I'm not volunteering.

You sure we couldn't put Firemage in the dress for funzies? I'm sure he would look precious.

people are always going to find ways to be victims, i think a parser should be avail for dps check stuff, if you are doing dps check content that requires a minimum overall dps it should be avail. There is point of people fooling themselves when lets say the min dps req is 42k and they are only doing 39k they truely need to figure out where the issue is or its just a fools errand.

A dps meter should not be avail for normal content. dungeons, normal raid ect. Unless they personally want for themselves and their own metric.

I did a Barbarossa Trial normal with a roulette i did 10 to 11k sustained damage while taking tank busters god bless monk and how broken riddle of earth is. I did 47 % boss damage and it took 12 min to kill, the rest of the group was sub 3k dps 2 even below 1k. Now this is an extreme example but this happens, however, those guys prolly know they did bad, but no idea how bad w/o the knowledge I dunno how they would get better.

No one cares if you do poorly on MSQ Normal content, Ill carry you, its expected. But this argument about DPS Meters is a fools argument anyway, everyone does it that does savage + even PS players ask for logs. If you have logs then someone has a DPS meter and most savage groups require logs that showed at a min that you are experienced and capable of clearing content.

Thou i do agree with the guy a couple post up. Some people know and try to bait out people with in game chat, They play lazily or really terribly then when you ask them to do their job, like "taunt" after tanking a boss for 40 % of its life as a dps I am the elitist then and they will not shut up :|

this argument goes both ways, i see half the arguments against it and its straight up made up. This isnt wow and you are doing a mythic 25, this is MSQ dungeons where 1 toon can carry everything. 99 % of dungeons is 2 packs kill boss 2 packs kill boss, and all my dps specs do like 30k on trash now/ A newbie dps that does sub 5k is no problem to carry.

Again no one gives a shit about normal/msq stuff :| well anyone any good anyway. bc they wouldnt care, its normal/msq they arnt expecting to play with top tier players.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Yeah, some guy who gets home from work and plays this game for 4 hours a week fumbling his way through MSQ dungeons probably isn't going to be happy getting called trash and kicked from a duty that you can literally clear by rolling your face across the keyboard. You know, the kind of behavior that gets complained about pretty much daily in WoW communities. This game is OVERWHELMINGLY casual, and you will absolutely ruin peoples experiences if you try to foster any kind of unnecessary competitiveness in trivial duties.




Isn't it funny how we went from 'Meters don't cause toxicity' to 'The ToS will still protect us' to 'People need to have thicker skin and deal with being called trash', while half the pro-meter side of the argument has just been posting toxic nonsense the entire time. Such a compelling position.

Again, the greatest argument against official meters is a 5 minute perusal of this thread. Meters will never be added to this game in an official capacity. If you want the player-base to get better, go teach and help people.

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So you are saying the causal player has the right to force their standards of play on others, but when it goes the other way around it is toxic? That being said extreme cases can and will still be punished by the ToS, sure other forms of harassment may be considered harassment by the player but maybe not by the ToS or the GM so certain things will not be punished like being removed from the group. Is that really a big deal?

Sure the game is causal, but that does not mean people should get a free pass. Some are okay with carrying people through content, so I am but they have to be trying. I am not going to carry the person that only has 4 hours to play and does an MSQ dungeon while only doing their 1-2-3 combo and that is it. You may view that as toxic, but I view not respecting the time of the others you are playing with to at the very least try is far more toxic.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Isn't it funny how we went from 'Meters don't cause toxicity' to 'The ToS will still protect us' to 'People need to have thicker skin and deal with being called trash', while half the pro-meter side of the argument has just been posting toxic nonsense the entire time. Such a compelling position.

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Okay, how's this for a compelling argument?

Square Enix doesn't care.

So stop whining like children and get over it. You're not going to stop people from using parses, even casual people use them without perceived toxicity.

Whining and crying over this when Yoshida has already said the dev team treats parsing as a gray area and only frowns upon people being toxic with it, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER TOOL WOULD, is so childish it makes me question how you even operate in real life.

Grow the hell up and stop derailing this thread just because you're insecure about your performance as a casual.

If half of you had this much gusto and energy to defend against actual issues plaguing the game, things would have been far better.

But no, let's whine like toddlers because someone used a tool to add up our damage numbers.

Never change, FF14 community, never change!

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

So you are saying the causal player has the right to force their standards of play on others, but when it goes the other way around it is toxic?

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This is the crux of what drives so much of this huh.

Some people feel genuine interpersonal aggression towards people who play the game badly, as if the act of playing the game badly is some kind of slight against them. Being inexperienced, or being bad at a game, is not an inherently malicious action.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Okay, how's this for a compelling argument?

Square Enix doesn't care.

So stop whining like children and get over it. You're not going to stop people from using parses, even casual people use them without perceived toxicity.

Whining and crying over this when Yoshida has already said the dev team treats parsing as a gray area and only frowns upon people being toxic with it, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER TOOL WOULD, is so childish it makes me question how you even operate in real life.

Grow the hell up and stop derailing this thread just because you're insecure about your performance as a casual.

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Lmao why do you sound like you are having a mental breakdown every single time you post on these forums. Typical hroth player I guess.

You probably should have done some research on me before making a bunch of really embarrassing assumptions about my motives.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

If half of you had this much gusto and energy to defend against actual issues plaguing the game, things would have been far better.

But no, let's whine like toddlers because someone used a tool to add up our damage numbers.

Never change, FF14 community, never change!

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But Midareyukki, some random on the internet that I'll likely never see again and shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on my life might, might, MIGHT say mean things to me :(

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

This is the crux of what drives so much of this huh.

Some people feel genuine interpersonal aggression towards people who play the game badly, as if the act of playing the game badly is some kind of slight against them. Being inexperienced, or being bad at a game, is not an inherently malicious action.

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You are correct, but telling someone to perform for the role they queued up for is also not inherently toxic. I would even go so far as saying removing someone that does not mesh with the group for w/e reason is not inherently toxic either. People are free to play how and with whom they want. Yet it seems for some reason depending on the content that only goes one way, I think it is should go both ways no matter the content. Just let the group choose, give players the tools to better police their own experience. As I mentioned not wanting to play with someone is not inherently toxic, some are cool with carrying others that is fine, others are not. This does not make the former a inherently better person or the latter a worse person. All it does it just show how people have different standards, what is toxic or malicious is how the person goes about it. Sure people will go about it harshly not going to say that is not the case, but for the most part it probably would be handled via the silent removal of the player, or maybe with a brief explanation as to why they are being removed.

Kicks are not personal most of the time, no need to make it personal.