Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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You can find time easily, easily to at least throw out a spell in a dungeon. I'm sorry but as a SCH if you can't find time to DPS with an auto fairy, you're not just bad at the game, you're legendarily bad. Have you actually tried this before? You have periods where minutes can go by and you don't need to heal. Is this even playing the game anymore? Players should strive to be better and improve, no? I understand being casual and doing streamlined content, I really do, but you mean to tell me that it's not only okay, but encouraged to stand around and do nothing as a healer?

If your entire party is low on mana and as a Bard you don't feel comfortable stepping out of your rotation to use the mana song, is this going to be encouraged too? "Aw, who cares? Different playstyle." If we're going to be so encouraging of a variety of playstyles when does it end? Ninja refuses to Goad? DPS refuses to use Second Wind? Blood for Blood too scary?

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Originally Posted by Hirmu

You just don't budge even when facts are thrown right in front of you? Math is hard, I admit.

But no, that's exactly what I wrote, WHM has a total of 9 pure dps abilities, 1 damaging and healing ability, 2 abilities which critical in dps rotation, one crowd control and then there are 15 buff/healing abilities. So no matter how you twist the numbers, there's 28 abilities in total, and only 15 of them are healing abilities. 15 out of 28 is 53,5 %. You claimed earlier that 3/4 or 75 % of WHM abilities are healing abilities, then you claimed that it's 2/3 or 66,6 % which are both just plain wrong. The number is 53,5 %.

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No... sorry man, you are the one twisting it to mean what you want it to...

So badly.... I didn't even bother with a response.

I'll let everyone else be the judge of that.

What you really mean... is 8 DPS and 15 healing related... that's not 50%... and its not a DPS...

It takes two seconds to figure that out.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

You can find time easily, easily to at least throw out a spell in a dungeon. I'm sorry but as a SCH if you can't find time to DPS with an auto fairy, you're not just bad at the game, you're legendarily bad. Have you actually tried this before? You have periods where minutes can go by and you don't need to heal. Is this even playing the game anymore? Players should strive to be better and improve, no? I

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I dont think that you read what I posted I dps as a healer always have sense I started playing the game , but again if a tank is not using a single cool down then no Im not gona go all out on dps. So again dont just put this on healers a tank has a job and that is to mitigate damage if a tank is pulling 8 9 10 adds and not using a single cool down then that is a bad tank.

And from that point on Im prob not gona dps that much because I know I have a bad tank, the fairy at least in hw content really doesnt heal for that much if your using selene just using embrace. Ill dps more when I know I personally have a good tank Im not gona come in thinking I can stay in cleric when I have a horrible tank that doesnt even know what a defensive cool down is or means or using crap like living dead with a full health bar.

I mention earlier Ive seen drks using living dead as they pulled with a full health bar, Ive seen them using blood bath instead of shadow skin, so again do not blame this only on healers when your tank has to know how to be a tank which I would say juding from df u are gona get a 50/50 ratio. And again people like you have your say in statics, in pf , so why do you feel as tho you need it in duty finder as well.

Many players dont go beyond dungeons , because they would rather avoid players like you that talk down on them, and come to duty finder for a safe way to do content they are comfortable with. I try to do all content in the game myself, but I dont expect people to play like I would expect someone in an extreme primal run to play the same way as a df run because not everyone is looking to be the best they are just looking to play the game and thats ok with me.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

What is 8/15? It's 0.53 with an infinite number of 3s afterwards. I'm not even sure what you are saying. Hirmu is giving you actual numbers and you're here acting as if they're not numbers. Feelings can't argue with numbers, I'm sorry.

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Its nothing, this dude was over exaggerating so I posted the actual abilities of the class... and it didn't say what he thought it did.

In a nutshell... yeah... the Healers have primarily healing abilities with only a few actual DPS abilities.

Exception of course was the SCH... which shares the base class Arcanist with the SMN.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Its nothing, this dude was over exaggerating so I posted the actual abilities of the class... and it didn't say what he thought it did.

In a nutshell... yeah... the Healers have primarily healing abilities with only a few actual DPS abilities.

Exception of course was the SCH... which shares the base class Arcanist with the SMN.

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Maybe.... It's you who's... incorrect about the potential of the class...

I have seen... healers... who have... beaten DPS... in expert dungeons... by being aggressive... And nobody ever died... Because they managed their regens...

Even... at a casual level... Healers can... very easily... contribute very meaningful DPS... While putting no risk on... the tank.

Think... about it this way... if... both healers... in an 8 man trial... DPS while sharing the healing burden... they can collectively... deal damage equal to... a DPS and a half!

That... is a ton... of added damage...

If a DPS job... ever comes out... that has even halfway decent... shields or regens... I promise they... will be... expected... to... use... them.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Interesting. So in your view, outside of savage, I can use auto eos and stand around as SCH and you would be okay with this? I get rare materials, gear, everything you get as a DPS or Tank by literally, and I am not exaggerating here, literally cast at most 10 spells within a 20 minute time frame?

You honestly believe that this person is putting in the same level of work as a DPS doing their rotation and should be rewarding as such? The amount of coddling is sickening.

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Look man, this isnt even about healers DPSing when your talking like this. You need to understand that NOTHING in this game will ever be of equal reward to your effort and there will always be someone who is fucking lucky, jumps into a bird farm dies on all the pulls but still gets first bird whistle. RNG does not grace people for effort.

If you want a game that rewards effort you are playing the wrong game. If you find one that rewards effort in the way you are expecting let me know. You can whine and bitch all you want about little kids who don't dps as healer but in the end, if the fight was won they are able to roll on gear just like you. SE is NOT going to change this. Most you can hope for is different healing meta that forces more "effort" out of them. Maybe you will see it in stormblood, chances are you wont.

Yeah. The thing is though, as a healer there is a lot of down time.. your examples are off gcd stuff or doing extra damage by tank stance swapping. Even if a run is going smooth and fast, if a healer is happy to just stand there and do nothing in their downtime it's time they could be using to do extra dps.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

What you really mean... is 8 DPS and 15 healing related... that's not 50%... and its not a DPS...

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Are you serious? I'm gonna try this one more time with you, I don't even know why but here goes. These are all of the WHM abilities:


Pure dps:

Cleric Stance
Holy
Stone
Stone II
Stone III
Aero
Aero II
Aero III
Fluid Aura

Total: 9

Combined dps/healing/crowd control/MP:

Shroud of Saints
Presence of Mind
Assize
Repose

Total: 4

Pure healing/buff:

Divine Seal
Benediction
Stoneskin
Stoneskin II
Cure
Cure II
Cure III
Medica
Medica II
Asylum
Regen
Tetra
Raise
Esuna
Protect

Total: 15

All in all there are 9 + 4 + 15 = 28 abilities. Feel free to use a calculator to verify. 15 abilities are healing abilities. So 15 out of 28. Maybe you should spend more than 2 seconds this time to figure this out.

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Originally Posted by Hirmu

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I'm not a big WHM person, but wouldn't holy be filed under section 2 as DPS/Crowd Control, given it's stun time? I know a lot of healers who use holy purely for the AoE stun as a form of damage mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

I'm not a big WHM person, but wouldn't holy be filed under section 2 as DPS/Crowd Control, given it's stun time? I know a lot of healers who use holy purely for the AoE stun as a form of damage mitigation.

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It's also worth noting that Stones 1, 2 and 3 will never be used equivalently to one another; they're tiers of one same move and aren't cast as 3 separate abilities on a mob like Aero/II/III. Lumping PoM and Shroud as part of a greater total towards DPS moves is also disingenuous, IMO - better to just remove that category from the total outright. In return we'll dump Stoneskin II off the healing list as it's redundant, leaving us with 14 healing moves out of 22 total - fairly higher than 50% as originally stated.