Spiritbinding = Ex?

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

wow that's stretching it. i said i think this change is ignorant and gave my reasons why i believe so and all of a sudden it jumps all the way to i want arr to fail.

/sarcasm on

yes, i played a game for 2 years i wanted to fail.
yes, i wanted to waste all of that time.
yes, i haven't played another game during the downtime because i want the game to fail.
yes, i mentioned something i hated in other games and don't want to see in this one means i want the game to fail.
yes, i took the time to level every class in the game because i want the game to fail.
yes, i took every job and completed every quest for those jobs because i want this game to fail.

/sarcasm off

ok does this make your argument about me wanting the game to fail look stupid enough or do i need to continue? all i did was point out that the argument about arr will give you gear all the way to cap has major flaws. the flaws involve the fact you could have already done that in 1.0, but people didn't do that and still purchased gear.

it still doesn't take into account that what i said is true. the lowering of supply of gear in the wards will cause the prices to increase(percentage wise) which will lower the buying power of non crafting classes. it will not affect me negatively in any way, shape, or form. i have all crafting classes to r50 and all gathering classes there as well so the prices going up is actually going to help me, but i still felt it was the right thing to bring up those concerns.

if me bringing up a concern means i want the game to fail in your warped reality you live in then i guess it is what it is.

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I'm not trying to attack you, my opologies if it came out that way, I get frustrated reading so many negative feedback on these forums regarding every little change the DEV's announce regarding ARR. It's like every time a DEV announces something about ARR that has been changed from V1.0 all of a sudden you get page after page of people QQing about the changes with out giving it any thought or understanding the full picture. With all honesty we can not asses any of these changes with out trying the game out, before than everything is speculations and we don't fully understand the full picture.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

This will make fail finder alot more fail, due to people being really gimp.... Either that or SE is going to have make all content pre-endgame crazy easy so gear does not really matter, like every other western mmo does.

Going to be so many gimps around because they do not want to spend 500k for 5 levels.

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Why do you think people will be really gimp? They will be running quests while waiting on dungeon queues, like others have said every quest gives you a piece of good leveling gear appropriate for that level.

It's true that leveling dungeons aren't really that much of a challenge in any mmo its because the real challenge begins at endgame not while leveling.

JP side doesn't seem to be discussing this issue like NA side, but I posted links to both NA threads talking about this subject with some questions I read in here. Pretty sure Bay and them already relayed the heated discussions to Japan so we should see some more update on this one soon I think.

I still haven't seen anyone explaining what were the issues in 1.0s economy and how this change would fix them.

People are saying this will be good for crafters, but how, exactly? Will there be more people buying gear than there were in 1.0 (and if, why)?

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

This will make fail finder alot more fail, due to people being really gimp.... Either that or SE is going to have make all content pre-endgame crazy easy so gear does not really matter, like every other western mmo does.

Going to be so many gimps around because they do not want to spend 500k for 5 levels.

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You wouldnt be able to use 'fail finder' if you dont have the right Ilvl for the dungeon (if they are correctly doing it that way) and having the right ilvl requires you not still be wearing lvl 1 gear because youre trying to avoid buying anything until max level.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

So basically we have 1 of 3 scenerios now

1) The crafters are screwed over... because everything will be next to worthless so people can afford it. Aka the 50k for a set of armor good enough not to hold back a group in dungeon.

2) Dungeons will all be laughably easy so gear pre endgame does not matter... aka like in WoW pre-endgame

3) People will just go into everything gimp because it is not worth the cost for good gear until you get to endgame.


all 3 of those seems pretty epic fail to me.

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People wont do any of those for the reasons I stated above. We haven't really gotten a look at what the stats of gear looks like in ARR. its possible that as gear level gets higher, the attribute increases on them become much higher than what we saw in 1.0, making better gear important to have even as you level up.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

here's the fun part for the non crafters. if you don't craft then the gil changes actually did lower your buying power. with them removing reselling gear once it's used they lowered the supply in the market. when the supply drops and the demand stays the same prices will increase.

who will benefit from the price increase? the crafters.

who will be punished by the price increase? the non crafters.

i am not saying an item that sold for 500k in 1.0 will still be 500k in arr, but i am saying with the same demand and less supply it will not drop to 10% of its previous cost. now an item that sold for 500k before you will likely be looking at 100k after. that has effectively decreased your buying power.

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I don't think there will be much reason for prices to increase all that much, at least not on lower level gear. And honestly, those non-crafters should just become crafters so they wont have to cry rivers of tears because of prices. Leveling crafting will be crazily easy now that there will be an in-game recipe book too, and it will be simply click recipe and start. no more tediously going to fansites to find out how to make something. If people that 'dont have the patience' for crafting still refuse to craft even with that change, well the crafters deserve all their gils.

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Originally Posted by Mudd

For some reason the idea of converting a triple melded item, or NPC'ing it doesn't really strike as productive, nor pleasant.

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*Converts triple-melded item*
YAY! I got a Grade IV materia!
*Looks more closely*
A Water...Materia..IV....
*Marches up to Mr. Bubblypots and shoves the materia up his big goblin nose.*

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

*Converts triple-melded item*
YAY! I got a Grade IV materia!
*Looks more closely*
A Water...Materia..IV....
*Marches up to Mr. Bubblypots and shoves the materia up his big goblin nose.*

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Hopefully they have plans to make it so you dont get those crap materia when you convert melded items. They already mentioned something about the chance for getting grade IV being much higher when converting a melded Item in ARR, but I dont think that is enough.

I've always thought each item type converted into way too many types of materia, leaving it too much to luck to get a good one, and some pieces can create the same materia as another piece. I think if they cut out all the duplication, and leave those resistance and element materia on only certain peices people wont have that frustration. I also think that items should be converted only into materia you can actually place on the item that you converted, taking out a lot of guesswork there.

opinions are opinions, but i get the distinct impression most of you didn't do well in econ and/or have never actually played MMOs other than XI/XIV

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

the flaws involve the fact you could have already done that in 1.0, but people didn't do that and still purchased gear.

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and the flaw in your argument is the assumption that the gear rewards in ARR will be equivalent to gear rewards in 1.0 (which were nearly non-existent). i'm not even sure how you can look yourself in the face and seriously believe this.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

the lowering of supply of gear in the wards will cause the prices to increase

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and the gear not selling because people don't need it because an exceedingly casual playerbase with little interest in min-maxing every level will be perfectly happy with taking and using whatever gear they get from quests and dungeons along the way... will cause gear prices in the wards to fall again. simple economics. have you ever even played a game where gear is a common quest reward? you do realize it doesn't work like XI or XIV, yeah?

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

if me bringing up a concern means i want the game to fail in your warped reality you live in then i guess it is what it is.

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bringing up a concern doesn't mean you want a game to fail. opining something which follows a failed economic/business model in resistance to something with follows a successful economic/business model, however, makes it SEEM like in prefering the failed model you prefer failure of the game on a larger scale.

if you truly want the game to succeed, argue for successful models. and protip: xi and xiv economic models are not successful.

Something i've been thinking about lately that "if" implemented would pretty much alleviate all my concerns with the system. The problem is I don't know if it would be technically feasible, or they would have to limit it in some fashion because people would try to abuse it.

For example say you don't want your triple-meld Felt Trousers +1 anymore. You'll get back your materials and a materia that contains the stats of that triple melded armor. If the armor is something that is not synthed obviously you would get no materials back, but you would still obtain that singular materia. That could be a method to analyze to pursue to update this system.

It's just an idea, but I do feel that they need to have some middle ground with the system. A 100% complete loss of value is bad. I don't want to sell my item to an NPC, or convert it into a tier 3 Chocobo Down materia. The problem is with this system I feel like my Gil will already be worthless because i'm never going to buy anything from you: the other guy.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Something i've been thinking about lately that "if" implemented would pretty much alleviate all my concerns with the system. The problem is I don't know if it would be technically feasible, or they would have to limit it in some fashion because people would try to abuse it.

For example say you don't want your triple-meld Felt Trousers +1 anymore. You'll get back your materials and a materia that contains the stats of that triple melded armor. If the armor is something that is not synthed obviously you would get no materials back, but you would still obtain that singular materia. That could be a method to analyze to pursue to update this system.

It's just an idea, but I do feel that they need to have some middle ground with the system. A 100% complete loss of value is bad. I don't want to sell my item to an NPC, or convert it into a tier 3 Chocobo Down materia. The problem is with this system I feel like my Gil will already be worthless because i'm never going to buy anything from you: the other guy.

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that would be a step in the right direction.

it just makes me sick to think that while out running crystal towers and say our white mage has to leave we ask someone to jump on white mage to take over for them. if someone didn't have the gear on them i could have just grabbed my wand or gear off my char and repaired it and let them use the gear during the party. i've even let them use my higher end gear so we could parse the results of encounters so they could see ways to upgrade their gear. once the party was over they'd just trade my gear back. over the course of the last 2 years i can't imagine how much of my old gear i gave away or lent out for parties or just for friends to use to compare to the gear they already had. it was a way i could help friends and ls members.

i just feels like they are making ways in which we will be less likely or not able to assist others in multiple parts. i'm one that took up crafting as a direct way i could be helpful to others because that's the part of a mmo i enjoy most. i enjoy the friends i make and being able to help them. honestly, the game is second to me in most mmo's because the friends i make along the way always come first. i would have left this game long ago if it weren't for the great people i've met along the way on karnak/excalibur.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I still haven't seen anyone explaining what were the issues in 1.0s economy and how this change would fix them.

People are saying this will be good for crafters, but how, exactly? Will there be more people buying gear than there were in 1.0 (and if, why)?

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I think in ARR a lot of people will be using quested gear, due to the new questing system and rewards via quests, so that will slow down the sales on crafted items, why I think the soulbound system is being implemented here to counter that and keep the economy going. In 1.0 players would buy armor from the wards that a crafter would make, than they would sell it back once they are done with it, what that did was add the items back into the market, so now a crafter would have a harder time selling their product as there was more of that product circling the wards due to people re-selling old items resulting in major undercutting to the point where many items became cheaper to buy than to make killing the crafting community (in the long run)

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

I think in ARR a lot of people will be using quested gear, due to the new questing system and rewards via quests, so that will slow down the sales on crafted items, why I think the soulbound system is being implemented here to counter that and keep the economy going. In 1.0 players would buy armor from the wards that a crafter would make, than they would sell it back once they are done with it, what that did was add the items back into the market, so now a crafter would have a harder time selling their product as there was more of that product circling the wards due to people re-selling old items resulting in major undercutting to the point where many items became cheaper to buy than to make killing the crafting community (in the long run)

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Again like I said in a earlier post. The Gear rewarded in Quests could just be an Alpha/Beta thing because there's no Weaver/Armorer/Blacksmith/etc to make things.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

that would be a step in the right direction.

it just makes me sick to think that while out running crystal towers and say our white mage has to leave we ask someone to jump on white mage to take over for them. if someone didn't have the gear on them i could have just grabbed my wand or gear off my char and repaired it and let them use the gear during the party. i've even let them use my higher end gear so we could parse the results of encounters so they could see ways to upgrade their gear. once the party was over they'd just trade my gear back. over the course of the last 2 years i can't imagine how much of my old gear i gave away or lent out for parties or just for friends to use to compare to the gear they already had. it was a way i could help friends and ls members.

i just feels like they are making ways in which we will be less likely or not able to assist others in multiple parts. i'm one that took up crafting as a direct way i could be helpful to others because that's the part of a mmo i enjoy most. i enjoy the friends i make and being able to help them. honestly, the game is second to me in most mmo's because the friends i make along the way always come first. i would have left this game long ago if it weren't for the great people i've met along the way on karnak/excalibur.

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I think this is a good valid point, it was nice to be able to trade gear to people to help increase their stats to win some battles.

But I also think as nice as it was, it was not to good for the over all economy in the long run, LS's have such close communities in ff that eventually everyone shares many items/gear causing a major slow down in the economy, resulting in gil being very hard to make, like in ff11 it was very hard to make gil as everything was re-cycling the markets preventing people from being able to craft/farm stuff to be worth their while.

I believe this system will benefit everybody, I do agree that people will have to spend more money on their own gear, but at the same time the ability to make decent gill will always be there. I know in ff11 people would horde their gill like it was the last resource on the planet, I know I did. A good economy will make the game more pleasant to play, people will not be afraid to spend gill on stuff as they know that they can go make decent gill after they spend, everyone likes to buy new things and be able to afford it, and not live paycheck to paycheck.

Could still help your friends with your crafting, you could make them brand new gear, weather they supply the mats and you make it for them saving them gill, or weather you just make it for them with your own mats since your a crafter and most likely have a lot of materials stored away for such times.

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Again like I said in a earlier post. The Gear rewarded in Quests could just be an Alpha/Beta thing because there's no Weaver/Armorer/Blacksmith/etc to make things.

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You could be right, but believe it will remain the same, if they removed gear rewards from all those quests than people would just grind and not bother. After all SE is leaning more towards the questing path for level gains.

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

I think in ARR a lot of people will be using quested gear, due to the new questing system and rewards via quests, so that will slow down the sales on crafted items, why I think the soulbound system is being implemented here to counter that and keep the economy going.

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We don't know how the system will work (how much gear we'll get from the low level quests) yet, but even if it would be like that, wouldn't they be just creating new problems (with giving players tons of low level gear for free) instead of fixing the things that were wrong in 1.0?

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In 1.0 players would buy armor from the wards that a crafter would make, than they would sell it back once they are done with it, what that did was add the items back into the market

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I don't know if this is true. I don't think many crafters bothered with making low level gear to sell it - not because the market was overflown but because they had limited bazaar space available and low level gear wasn't as profitable as high level one. Also, I don't think that many players actually bothered to resell their old low level equipment but instead they NPCd it or gave it to some new player (because of the same reason: bazaar space was limited so people would rather sell expensive stuff instead of cheap low level gear). I didn't find this an issue in 1.0, more often there wasn't enough low level gear available and this gear bind system would actually make the situation even worse (assuming the gear won't be just raining into player's arms from the quests in which case the gear bind wouldn't make any difference).

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so now a crafter would have a harder time selling their product as there was more of that product circling the wards due to people re-selling old items resulting in major undercutting to the point where many items became cheaper to buy than to make killing the crafting community (in the long run)

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I understand this is the argument people are making but if there was an overflow of stuff at the wards, I don't think it was as much because of the people reselling their old gear but more because of the crafters who were all selling the same pieces (and players didn't need to buy stuff from the wards). I think it was a problem in the crafting system: there weren't that many profitable high level recipes for each craft (as all players were wearing pretty much identical gear) so all the crafters were making and selling the same things, and because leveling a craft was so easy (and free!) that nearly everyone had a few crafts leveled and they didn't need to buy gear from others but could synth it themselves.

With the materia system where players keep blowing up stuff while trying to meld it I don't see how there would be too many items available at any time. There is a problem in the melding system though: as you have to have the melding craft at high enough level to try the meld (assuming it's double+), you will also be able to synth the piece by yourself, hence you won't be buying it from the wards. Changing the system so that players without crafting classes would be able to ask for multiple melds (same way they could ask single melds in 1.0) could possible increase the demand for those items.

For me, it seems the biggest problems in 1.0 (gear)economy were these:

- because leveling was so fast (too fast), people didn't bother gearing up before max level (they didn't buy low-mid level gear)
- crafters didn't bother with making low-mid-level gear (there wasn't low-mid level gear available)
- crafts were way too easy (and even profitable!) to level: everyone and their moogle had at least a few crafts leveled
- crafts had only a few profitable recipes each, so all crafters were making and selling the same things overflowing the market
- because everyone had the crafts leveled, players didn't need to buy things from the wards but they could make them by themselves or ask a friend
- because of the bad search system, it was nearly impossible to sell HQ / melded stuff at the wards

Why not just fix these issues instead of creating new ones and adding a system that isn't needed and causes extra trouble for players?

There's going to be an overflow of whatever is the cheapest and 'best' item to Spiritbond and turn into Materia anyways. That's not gonna change from 1.0. Whatever is the cheapest recipe for the highest level to give a certain Materia is going to be spammed and flooded in the AH/Wards.

As people spam quests to level up, they're going to run out of quests for their other jobs, atleast on the new player servers. Most people will be using the various sidequests to level Arcanist only.

I guess if you bring a new friend/returning player into the game, you'll just have to give them gil because they can't use your hand-me-downs. Oh well, we'll discuss this more in the Beta forums.

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For ex/rare, rare items (green, light blue, purple) I believe it will be bound to your character. But will this also apply to those items that has multiple materias melded onto them?

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From reinharts thread (see op's link)

I would guess that it would only apply to things like sentinel gear or militia accessories. greens light blue and purples etc.

it still kinda sucks though as alot of gear i buy i tend to typically experiment with. in a type of is this pair of pants better than this pair of pants or is this ring better than that ring style scenario. i'd hate to spend loadsa gil on something only to find it is actually inferior to what i had previously.

if it was limited to green / purple style stuffs then it could ultimately make them inferior to crafted. for example a pair of cobalt gauntlets could end up holding more value than a pair of sentinels even melded options. as you could resell the cobalt when you upgraded to recover some of the upgrade costs but the sentinals would be worthless

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Originally Posted by Altena

I think we should fish for a rep response on this one for clarity.. No point donating them to the FC bank if no one can use, and no point of an FC bank if you can't share valuable items.

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You can still put in mats and fresh crafted gear. On our LS forum we have a DoH&DoL order list. If someone need something or have something to give away he can write it in the list. With the FC bank we can then just put the item in the bank.

Why do people keep talking about low level gear? No one sold that stuff in 1.0 and crafter made tons of gil that argument is pointless.

If they just expand the Armoire to be able to hold say 10 slots of normal gear, it will serve to reset the spiritbond.

Honestly .. I think it was Evy that made the point that they could have fixed small issues instead of making a big new problem...

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Originally Posted by Niqote

If they just expand the Armoire to be able to hold say 10 slots of normal gear, it will serve to reset the spiritbond.

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Which would then make the system pointless.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Why do people keep talking about low level gear? No one sold that stuff in 1.0 and crafter made tons of gil that argument is pointless.

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This is just not true, certainly from the perspective of Sargatanas server, which we were both on.

I spent most of my time pissing around doing leves for low-level item rewards (for achievements), crafting low-level items while raising my DoL/DoH jobs and basically upgrading my gear either by crafting or purchasing from the MW at every level I could for added bonuses (yeah, I played, uh... thoroughly!)

My debatable playstyle aside, I can assure you that any level 1-30 piece of gear I listed in the MW sold in a day or two. It was a constant recycling that facilitated regular upgrades and it made me a decent wedge of gil re-listing 10-20 pieces of low-mid level armour every day (gil that I needed!).

So ner.

I Agree it's a bad idea.

World of Warcraft is terrible. Jumping and controlling your character the same as WoW was plenty. Please stop building WoW 2.0. Blizzard has made the game too easy just so they keep subs from casuals.....
Not being able to sell your used double meld once you create a triple meld will make the RMT very happy^^

Bad idea, but we don't know all the details so maybe it isn't even something to worry about.
I will say this, I was planning on buying a new power supply and GTX 680 but now that I've read this I'm going to wait. I built my desktop for FFXIV. If SE makes WoW 2.0 I'm taking a trip to the pawn shop.

All work and no resale makes Fonzworth a dull boy!!!

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Originally Posted by FonzworthBentley

World of Warcraft is terrible.

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and heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go again. shit like this is why i lose my patience so often in these forums. it gets to the point where i just get absolutely sick of repeating myself and can only do my absolute best to hold back from just telling people they're drooling idiots then calling it a day.

but just in case-

WoW DIDN'T INVENT BoP/BoE. STOP USING THIS BULLSHIT ARGUMENT AGAINST A SYSTEM SIMPLY BECAUSE WoW USED IT AND YOU RETAIN AN INCREDIBLY LARGE NEGATIVE BIAS TOWARD THE GAME ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY DUE TO NAME ALONE.

if this is your attitude, if this is all you have to contribute to the community- just sell your PC right now. get rid of it. never log in again. you won't be missed.

some people actually want this game to not only succeed, but be the best MMO in the world- and we understand that in order to pull that off we need to turn over and examine not only new ideas, but to revisit ideas that have been in place SINCE LONG BEFORE WoW. we don't just IMMEDIATELY SEE RED the instant those three little letters are typed or referenced.

reeeeeeeeer reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer wow suxxxxxxxxx reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

realize you are in an incredibly small minority. realize if SE is to listen to you, their game will cater to an incredibly small minority. and realize if their game only appeals to an incredibly small minority, the damage done to the brand's name will not be recovered, they will not regain the faith of their market, and once FFXI dies they likely will never bother with MMOs again. which defeats THE ENTIRE PURPOSE of them redesigning the game from the ground up.

i wish terrible, awful things upon you and your ilk for throwing your irrational anti-wow feces all over threads that could otherwise be perfectly constructive and helpful to the devs.

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Originally Posted by fusional

and heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go again. shit like this is why i lose my patience so often in these forums. it gets to the point where i just get absolutely sick of repeating myself and can only do my absolute best to hold back from just telling people they're drooling idiots then calling it a day.

but just in case-

WoW DIDN'T INVENT BoP/BoE. STOP USING THIS BULLSHIT ARGUMENT AGAINST A SYSTEM SIMPLY BECAUSE WoW USED IT AND YOU RETAIN AN INCREDIBLY LARGE NEGATIVE BIAS TOWARD THE GAME ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY DUE TO NAME ALONE.

if this is your attitude, if this is all you have to contribute to the community- just sell your PC right now. get rid of it. never log in again. you won't be missed.

some people actually want this game to not only succeed, but be the best MMO in the world- and we understand that in order to pull that off we need to turn over and examine not only new ideas, but to revisit ideas that have been in place SINCE LONG BEFORE WoW. we don't just IMMEDIATELY SEE RED the instant those three little letters are typed or referenced.

reeeeeeeeer reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer wow suxxxxxxxxx reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

realize you are in an incredibly small minority. realize if SE is to listen to you, their game will cater to an incredibly small minority. and realize if their game only appeals to an incredibly small minority, the damage done to the brand's name will not be recovered, they will not regain the faith of their market, and once FFXI dies they likely will never bother with MMOs again. which defeats THE ENTIRE PURPOSE of them redesigning the game from the ground up.

i wish terrible, awful things upon you and your ilk for throwing your irrational anti-wow feces all over threads that could otherwise be perfectly constructive and helpful to the devs.

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Does it really matter whether WoW invented something or not? if is something that the community doesn't like, does it really matter who invented what? There are plenty arguments in favor and against binding equipment. It doesn't really matter who invented what system.

If the system is not welcome (mind you, we have to wait to really see how SE is implementing it to judge it) people have a right to express their opinions. Something call "Freedom of Speech" in the U.S.

There are people who don't like binding equipment and others who do like it. These forums are a venue for both sides to make an argument for or against the new system and in a way try to influence SE to keep or not keep binding.

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Originally Posted by fusional

and heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go again. shit like this is why i lose my patience so often in these forums. it gets to the point where i just get absolutely sick of repeating myself and can only do my absolute best to hold back from just telling people they're drooling idiots then calling it a day.

but just in case-

WoW DIDN'T INVENT BoP/BoE. STOP USING THIS BULLSHIT ARGUMENT AGAINST A SYSTEM SIMPLY BECAUSE WoW USED IT AND YOU RETAIN AN INCREDIBLY LARGE NEGATIVE BIAS TOWARD THE GAME ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY DUE TO NAME ALONE.

if this is your attitude, if this is all you have to contribute to the community- just sell your PC right now. get rid of it. never log in again. you won't be missed.

some people actually want this game to not only succeed, but be the best MMO in the world- and we understand that in order to pull that off we need to turn over and examine not only new ideas, but to revisit ideas that have been in place SINCE LONG BEFORE WoW. we don't just IMMEDIATELY SEE RED the instant those three little letters are typed or referenced.

reeeeeeeeer reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer wow suxxxxxxxxx reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

realize you are in an incredibly small minority. realize if SE is to listen to you, their game will cater to an incredibly small minority. and realize if their game only appeals to an incredibly small minority, the damage done to the brand's name will not be recovered, they will not regain the faith of their market, and once FFXI dies they likely will never bother with MMOs again. which defeats THE ENTIRE PURPOSE of them redesigning the game from the ground up.

i wish terrible, awful things upon you and your ilk for throwing your irrational anti-wow feces all over threads that could otherwise be perfectly constructive and helpful to the devs.

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*Hands you a heart of darkness* Welcome

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Originally Posted by FonzworthBentley

I Agree it's a bad idea.

World of Warcraft is terrible. Jumping and controlling your character the same as WoW was plenty. Please stop building WoW 2.0. Blizzard has made the game too easy just so they keep subs from casuals.....
Not being able to sell your used double meld once you create a triple meld will make the RMT very happy^^

Bad idea, but we don't know all the details so maybe it isn't even something to worry about.
I will say this, I was planning on buying a new power supply and GTX 680 but now that I've read this I'm going to wait. I built my desktop for FFXIV. If SE makes WoW 2.0 I'm taking a trip to the pawn shop.

All work and no resale makes Fonzworth a dull boy!!!

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Get a 660 ti and save 200 dollars...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

reeeeeeeeer reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer wow suxxxxxxxxx reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

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freakin' hillarious

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HamHam

Does it really matter whether WoW invented something or not?

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why are you asking me? you should be asking the people who stupidily ASSUME WoW invented the system and attack WoW specifically and exclusively as a result. you're barking up the wrong tree with this argument.

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Originally Posted by HamHam

if is something that the community doesn't like, does it really matter who invented what?

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by 'community' you mean a large (overly vocal) minority who would prefer another niche title and systems which come with the territory of a niche title to a healthy, commercially successful title (which is what the devs have stated outright they are trying to achieve) and the systems which come with the territory of that?

and seriously, stop using the 'we' fallacy. i see enough of that shit with fox news playing the "americans think..." card as if the only people who are americans are the ones who agree with their politics. playing the "the community thinks..." card is no better. and if you actually take a minute to REALLY LOOK AROUND, you'll see more than enough evidence that the community, as a whole, does not think that way at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HamHam

It doesn't really matter who invented what system.

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then i ask again- why crucify WoW? what service does it do to the argument? answer: none.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HamHam

people have a right to express their opinions. Something call "Freedom of Speech" in the U.S.

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and i have a right to point out how awful their argument is and/or tell them they are blithering idiots. i'd say we're even.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

why are you asking me? you should be asking the people who stupidily ASSUME WoW invented the system and attack WoW specifically and exclusively as a result. you're barking up the wrong tree with this argument.



by 'community' you mean a large (overly vocal) minority who would prefer another niche title and systems which come with the territory of a niche title to a healthy, commercially successful title (which is what the devs have stated outright they are trying to achieve) and the systems which come with the territory of that?

and seriously, stop using the 'we' fallacy. i see enough of that shit with fox news playing the "americans think..." card as if the only people who are americans are the ones who agree with their politics. playing the "the community thinks..." card is no better. and if you actually take a minute to REALLY LOOK AROUND, you'll see more than enough evidence that the community, as a whole, does not think that way at all.



then i ask again- why crucify WoW? what service does it do to the argument? answer: none.



and i have a right to point out how awful their argument is and/or tell them they are blithering idiots. i'd say we're even.

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And here you are inserting politics to make your argument seem relevant... a counter argument by saying nothing.

You came to this thread to contribute nothing, but insults. YOU don't even come up with an argument for which side you are for... no, you came to this forum with the intention to provoke.

Thank you for your contribution. It was very insightful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HamHam

And here you are inserting politics to make your argument seem relevant... a counter argument by saying nothing.

You came to this thread to contribute nothing, but insults. YOU don't even come up with an argument for which side you are for... no, you came to this forum with the intention to provoke.

Thank you for your contribution. It was very insightful.

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is that so?

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Originally Posted by fusional

relatively new thread, already 8 pages of crying and moaning. who's surprised?

this is great for crafters, and really really great for the economy. anyone who doesn't realize how screwed up XIV's economy is/was needs a reality check. and this move would do quite a lot to solve it. oh, and everyone crying about it resembling WoW's system- first of all, WoW didn't invent the system. but every time wow USES a system it DIDN'T INVENT people still just fucking cry because it was in WoW. pathetic.

not to mention wow had one of the most stable economies in any MMO ever made- which is all the more impressive considering the sheer volume of people taking part in it. and yet with just a few hundred dedicated players on each XIV server, the economies quickly spiraled out of control. inflation was rampant (even after the nerf to guildleve rewards), and to really make money you had to have a large amount of capital to play with in the first place. and yet you people want to keep that?

you really don't care about this game succeeding, do you? all you care about is that it A. needs to be different from WoW (a game most of you never actually even played) and B. can't share any qualities with WoW (in spite of WoW not inventing the wheel)

but ANYWAY...

this is really only potentially bad for new players. hopefully they increase vendor gear options (and make them affordable) to compensate, as most crafters probably won't waste time selling lower level stuff. then again, considering the redesign of the quest system i'm sure they intend for people to get most of the gear they'll need for leveling through quest and dungeon rewards, and this will mostly just be an issue for higher level players to deal with. which would be perfectly fine.

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page 9. what now?

i contributed, commenting on overwhelming amount of anti-WoW bias/rhetoric, then stepped out for a while. i came back only to see page after page of the same anti-WoW bias/rhetoric still being spewed about with abandon. i commented on it.

and what of your contribution?

so there's that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HamHam

Does it really matter whether WoW invented something or not? if is something that the community doesn't like, does it really matter who invented what? There are plenty arguments in favor and against binding equipment. It doesn't really matter who invented what system.

If the system is not welcome (mind you, we have to wait to really see how SE is implementing it to judge it) people have a right to express their opinions. Something call "Freedom of Speech" in the U.S.

There are people who don't like binding equipment and others who do like it. These forums are a venue for both sides to make an argument for or against the new system and in a way try to influence SE to keep or not keep binding.

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I feel like we have a community member famous for being masochistic but I'll take that place for the moment and say

Players dont know what they want, honestly the best example is when people seriously were asking to keep the relics from 1.0 ending. There must be punishment (difficulty) for enjoyment, that lame but old saying fits here "there is no light without darkness".

It is why really hard games give you so much pride.


So while the community doesnt like it, sometimes its the best to implement that feature. "No one here likes how hard this boss is" - Dev ignores them.

People beat the boss finally, community is outrageously happy and proud of themselves.

The binding system prevents reuse, which encourages all faculties to work harder to get the same results (getting the gear you need). And dont use the argument people will do less. Unlike the real world, players will almost always give 100%. I've played some whacked ass hard games - the players in the game weren't lazier because it was harder, they were better.

Of course if the system is too hard it will weed out the players who wont try as hard - so that is part of the reason why. However WoW, and many others have proven that this isnt that big of a weeding device and players can and will still play.

Finally not everyone is against the system, or at least yet while everything is in speculation and not actual practice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I feel like we have a community member famous for being masochistic but I'll take that place for the moment and say

Players dont know what they want, honestly the best example is when people seriously were asking to keep the relics from 1.0 ending. There must be punishment (difficulty) for enjoyment, that lame but old saying fits here "there is no light without darkness".

It is why really hard games give you so much pride.


So while the community doesnt like it, sometimes its the best to implement that feature. "No one here likes how hard this boss is" - Dev ignores them.

People beat the boss finally, community is outrageously happy and proud of themselves.

The binding system prevents reuse, which encourages all faculties to work harder to get the same results (getting the gear you need). And dont use the argument people will do less. Unlike the real world players will almost always give 100%. I've played some whacked ass hard games - the players in the game weren't lazier because it was harder, they were better.

Of course if the system is too hard it will weed out the players who wont try as hard - so that is part of the reason why. However WoW, and many others have proven that this isnt that big of a weeding device and players can and will still play.

Finally not everyone is against the system, or at least yet while everything is in speculation and not actual practice.

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Screw that, I know what I want. I want some damn balance!

So shut up and give me balance!

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Originally Posted by Reika

Screw that, I know what I want. I want some damn balance!

So shut up and give me balance!

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The Rogue is doing more damage than the Paladin!! BALANCE ME!!

/Paladin

Nah... shut up and give me your subligars!


BTW JP side started a thread about this one here - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%84%E3%81%A6

And old JP threads that were asking devs to please don't allow sale of used/old items:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%84%E3%81%A6
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...BC%81%EF%BC%81

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Nah... shut up and give me your subligars!


BTW JP side started a thread about this one here - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%84%E3%81%A6

And old JP threads that were asking devs to please don't allow sale of used/old items:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%84%E3%81%A6
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...BC%81%EF%BC%81

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Someone get this man a subligar!!!

Related, im sure someone asked in one of these threads about this 'who asked for this'. Well, heres the answer.

I find the anti-WoW bias hilarious. Bind on equip system is in every other MMO I have played: GW2, Aion, and Tera.

I consider this system equivalent to Bind on equip system, a better name would be "bind on use". EX is equavilent to bind on pickup.

More I think about it the more I support this system. It's great for the server to support more crafters. Without items being taken out of the economy it eventually becomes saturated making impossible to make a profit off of some items.

Sure, you can't trade binded gear to your buddies so it requires them to quest for the gear, farm a dungeon, find someone to craft it or buy off the auction house supporting the crafters.

I think the positives outweighs the negatives.

At least it doesnt share the same weakness as the other MMO's of Binding as soon as you equp it. Nope, you actually have to use it in battle, craft, or gather for it to bind to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reika

At least it doesnt share the same weakness as the other MMO's of Binding as soon as you equp it. Nope, you actually have to use it in battle, craft, or gather for it to bind to you.

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indeed. and since FF players seem to love their town gear as much or more than any other MMO players, this doesn't interfere with that in the slightest. people can still buy stuff and equip it for the looks, take it off for fights, and resell it if they want in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Players dont know what they want, honestly the best example is when people seriously were asking to keep the relics from 1.0 ending. There must be punishment (difficulty) for enjoyment, that lame but old saying fits here "there is no light without darkness".

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and i think this is the heart of the matter for much of our most vocal forum regulars. another example would be how people moaned and moaned about not having auto-attack and being forced to spam 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1, then they reformed the battle system, gave us auto attack and encouraged more diverse button-pressing through combos...

...and people cried to do away with auto-attack. and this has happened on numerous occasions with quite a few game elements.

i also remember in a thread once i tried explaining marketing, demographics and design choice, and basically told people that it's pretty common for them to not actually know what they want or what's best for them, in spite of anything they may think or say, and the marketing team's entire job is to figure out *what it is they actually DO want/need* that they aren't saying. this is how you tap into a consumer base. simple pandering doesn't work.

and wow did i get a lot of backlash for it. people felt some deep angst with being told that no matter what they think or say they probably don't actually know what's best for them, what they want or need- much less what's best for a game, or what it needs.

but really, that's the truth. we can provide our opinions and preferences all day long. some of us will make an honest effort to back it up, others just want to be able to have an opinion without consequence, without needing to defend it. but in the end hardly anyone really acknowledges that their position likely isn't for the objective good of the game in general- but rather stems from the subjective preference of what would be good for the game if it catered to them primarily and specifically.

and this makes the devs jobs INCREDIBLY difficult. more difficult than most people can even begin to imagine. and more often than not, in spite of possibly having good intentions and wanting to help them- we're actually making their jobs harder. and that sucks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

So while the community doesnt like it, sometimes its the best to implement that feature. "No one here likes how hard this boss is" - Dev ignores them.

People beat the boss finally, community is outrageously happy and proud of themselves.

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rivenroad (hard) and white ravens serve as a fantastic example of exactly this. people complained about it being too hard/impossible for 2+ months until devs finally came out and officially said, once and for all, this fight and this earring will not be available in 2.0

so people gathered up, pounded through it and got it done. and then suddenly there were all these posts and threads about how fun the fight was, how rewarding it was to finally beat it, how happy they were to have the earrings before 2.0...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

The binding system prevents reuse, which encourages all faculties to work harder to get the same results (getting the gear you need). And dont use the argument people will do less. Unlike the real world players will almost always give 100%. I've played some whacked ass hard games - the players in the game weren't lazier because it was harder, they were better.

Finally not everyone is against the system, or at least yet while everything is in speculation and not actual practice.

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well said. cheers

Words hurt too