SE Please start caring about your players privacy.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

You do not need the main plugin or any of its forks to get this data. Packet sniffers are old and completely separate pieces of software.

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Absolutely, but nothing gets better by shit like this getting easier. It's like how DDOS can be done by any script kiddie or some jerk with money because botnets are a thing now. Making the creeps work for it is going to thin them down, just because your average person isn't going to know how to use something like Wireshark.

On the JP thread, someone mentions seeing a post on a bulletin how data is being collected since DT launch regardless if you've logged it or not, though there's no way to confirm this either. Rest of the thread is people demanding an anti-cheat, but seems majority don't realize this wouldn't stop this particular issue since it's a hole in SE's coding. Anti-cheats get bypassed within minutes, and it wouldn't be as effective as they think it is in PSO2.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Rest of the thread is people demanding an anti-cheat, but seems majority don't realize this wouldn't stop this particular issue since it's a hole in SE's coding. Anti-cheats get bypassed within minutes, and it wouldn't be as effective as they think it is in PSO2.

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To add to that here: asking for an AntiCheat will only hurt the normal player in the long run, and literally invites the devil into your home. Plus, as you said, this is not an issue that can get resolved by an anticheat, since the data can be read without interfacing with the client computer themselves (spoiler - just "man in the middle" yourself). This is a problem that requires a different kind of solution.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

To add to that here: asking for an AntiCheat will only hurt the normal player in the long run, and literally invites the devil into your home. Plus, as you said, this is not an issue that can get resolved by an anticheat, since the data can be read without interfacing with the client computer themselves (spoiler - just "man in the middle" yourself). This is a problem that requires a different kind of solution.

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That is correct. Tools such as Wireshark are often used for network troubleshooting and spotting unusual activity, it basically tells you how your computer is talking to others online. Anti-cheat wouldn't prevent Wireshark from being used, at all.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

On the JP thread, someone mentions seeing a post on a bulletin how data is being collected since DT launch regardless if you've logged it or not, though there's no way to confirm this either. Rest of the thread is people demanding an anti-cheat, but seems majority don't realize this wouldn't stop this particular issue since it's a hole in SE's coding. Anti-cheats get bypassed within minutes, and it wouldn't be as effective as they think it is in PSO2.

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when peoples private data are being compromised, it should seriously be considered. like, look at valorant, there are hackers n such that bypass vanguard, but they are banned almost instantly. square enix should prioritize the normal playerbase, not mod beasts who only play this game cause of mods. people who say the game will lose 70% subs for adding anti-cheat are seriously just coping anyway, mods aside, this is one of the best RP games out there, way better than games like world of warcraft even. im not against plugins, but this one in particiular has crossed the line in my opinion and has shown the potential danger with them.

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Originally Posted by shygirly

when peoples private data are being compromised, it should seriously be considered. like, look at valorant, there are hackers n such that bypass vanguard, but they are banned almost instantly. square enix should prioritize the normal playerbase, not mod beasts who only play this game cause of mods. people who say the game will lose 70% subs for adding anti-cheat are seriously just coping, mods aside, this is one of the best RP games out there, way better than games like world of warcraft even. im not against plugins, but this one in particiular has crossed the line in my opinion and has shown the potential danger with them.

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How much of that is actually PII, that is seriously debatable though (although I have opted to not use my alts or more than 1 retainer selling stuff for the time being). And again - adding an AntiCheat would not stop the data collection, as you can read the data without actually interfacing with the client itself. Yes, we need a solution here, but we need a solution that actually tackles the problem, not snake oil the normal computer user was made to believe will resolve the issue.

Personally speaking, I don't want AntiCheat because I like playing the game on my Steam Deck, and I doubt SqEx would enable the required Steam Deck AntiCheat libraries. Thats what I mean with it will only hurt the normal player.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

How much of that is actually PII, that is seriously debatable though (although I have opted to not use my alts or more than 1 retainer selling stuff for the time being). And again - adding an AntiCheat would not stop the data collection, as you can read the data without actually interfacing with the client itself. Yes, we need a solution here, but we need a solution that actually tackles the problem, not snake oil the normal computer user was made to believe will resolve the issue.

Personally speaking, I don't want AntiCheat because I like playing the game on my Steam Deck, and I doubt SqEx would enable the required Steam Deck AntiCheat libraries. Thats what I mean with it will only hurt the normal player.

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i mean they should 100% revert the blacklist changes or just fix the code itself to hide that data, but the plugin is what made this easily accessable to EVERYONE. creepy stalker plugin aside, if i was SE i would be quite sick of this game after this whole drama tbh, the game has a serious botting problem as well as raid hacking problems due to plugins. the game is beyond compromised, at some point enough is enough although i dont think they will add anti-cheat anyway. looks like they are trying to sweep this whole thing under the rug. personally, ive unsubbed and am not returning until its fixed, and will buy a brand new account since there are databases out there already.

Whatever the solution might be, they should say something. Silence doesn't really help, so hopefully they have already been discussing what can be done and will issue a statement soon.

Having no official statement to acknowledge things only amplifies player worries and concern as time goes on. Meanwhile it's already in gaming articles, and on several social media platforms.

To those mention packet capture as still being a option.
I am full aware information can be gotten this way however the scope of what this thing does (A certain creator features a video of the plugin in use) goes to the degree where the amount of effort would most definitely require more knowledge than the developer.
When it comes to being shared, "Install this third party program that runs with admin rights that is stalker purposed" is a lot less likely to be done than, a plugin. When, and it is a when, a public version comes out (It's in the best interest for stalkers to have as up to date information as possible), its only a matter of time before the mob mindset sets in of "Well I'm being tracked anyways I may as well be able to track back" sets in.

You cannot say that it is realistic that completely via packet capture someone is going to make an external program that both stores and displays, account id, alts, past locations (and how long spent there), past customizations, retainer information, actively scans around them for new people to upload, monitors cross world link shell, (From the code I read it just cares about the sender not the content, yes I have read the code before GitHub took it down as well as the two others referenced and coding is my job).

Do I think that anti-cheat should be used? It's hard to say, there is both very good argument for and against it, full platform support should remain if it was added, certain third-party program needed for the raiding community, I personally have nothing against what anyone does that is opt-in and accept the risk, it only affects them.
At the same time how much longer do we have before FF goes into such a state that it becomes needed? The reports of people noticing extreme bot like behaviour in roulettes in the last few months, likewise with fates, more and more of the game seems to either be becoming exposable or automatable, the line is getting pushed and pushed moving from QOL and amazing posing to botting to stalking. FF having the reputation of being the degenerate MMORPG full of weirdo's is already there, but if it carries on with this trajectory of pushing further and further?
I'd say this last incident is at least enough to start looking at what would be needed to be done to implement it as a side project in priority "Just incase". Developing further features with the knowledge that a person could do near anything they want to if it's not locked down, that should definitely be done, and it wasn't for new blacklist.

Everyone is losing to different degrees at this point, normal player, plugin user, competitive player, Square Enix themselves.

It makes me just want to just give up on caring like everyone I know has, but I'm not there yet.

Anti-cheat would be a serious loss to both the community and to SE I think. There are many parts of this game that are severely under-developed, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are many out there that compensate for these shortcomings of the game. - and with how neglecting the quality control is, I absolutely wouldn't put it past them to have something wholly ineffective, or something that misfires and bans people because of a specific hardware setup being detected as 'suspicious'

I think they do need to revise their approach. Whether it is being more heavy handed generally, or whether it is something like an approval system for plugins. Or just generally actually caring about what data is exposed client-side, and investing more into infrastructure and the underlying development of the game. For a game that has been running well over a decade, and supposedly aims to run for at least another decade, they need to be making more investment into their infrastructure and code-base, so that it doesn't lead to downright sloppy or needless mistakes/oversights like this happening in the first place

Half of this problem with third-party getting more and more invasive is because they have been so hands off and have tried to pretend like they don't exist, and how they treat this specific case IMO will very much determine how far more developers are willing to go in the future.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Anti-cheat would be a serious loss to both the community and to SE I think. There are many parts of this game that are severely under-developed, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are many out there that compensate for these shortcomings of the game. - and with how neglecting the quality control is, I absolutely wouldn't put it past them to have something wholly ineffective, or something that misfires and bans people because of a specific hardware setup being detected as 'suspicious'

I think they do need to revise their approach. Whether it is being more heavy handed generally, or whether it is something like an approval system for plugins. Or just generally actually caring about what data is exposed client-side, and investing more into infrastructure and the underlying development of the game. For a game that has been running well over a decade, and supposedly aims to run for at least another decade, they need to be making more investment into their infrastructure and code-base, so that it doesn't lead to downright sloppy or needless mistakes/oversights like this happening in the first place

Half of this problem with third-party getting more and more invasive is because they have been so hands off and have tried to pretend like they don't exist, and how they treat this specific case IMO will very much determine how far more developers are willing to go in the future.

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An approval system would be a good compromise for all parties. The only reason many players including myself are in favor of anticheat is because the crossplay. Nobody wants to be disadvantaged/left out and is very uncool to have pc/consolencrossplay and not allow consoles the same features. Regulate the modsters and make them be a benefit and make sure they don't take things too far sounds like a win win.

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Originally Posted by shygirly

i mean they should 100% revert the blacklist changes or just fix the code itself to hide that data, but the plugin is what made this easily accessable to EVERYONE. creepy stalker plugin aside, if i was SE i would be quite sick of this game after this whole drama tbh, the game has a serious botting problem as well as raid hacking problems due to plugins. the game is beyond compromised, at some point enough is enough although i dont think they will add anti-cheat anyway. looks like they are trying to sweep this whole thing under the rug. personally, ive unsubbed and am not returning until its fixed, and will buy a brand new account since there are databases out there already.

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Except, not only would Anti-Cheat not fix this problem it would do absolutely nothing for bots either. I don't know why people view Anti-Cheat as this godlike fix all option that causes no problems and puts an end to all botting. If that was true, World of Warcraft, which uses Anti Cheat, wouldn't have the overwhelming botting problem that it has had since it first launched. Even today you can go out and see hordes of Druid gather bots flying around. All Anti cheat does is impact that average user, in some cases by creating performance issues on machines or by the false positives. And lets be honest, does anyone actually trust SE's current Customer Service team to manage researching and overturning the false positives? I know I don't.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

Except, not only would Anti-Cheat not fix this problem it would do absolutely nothing for bots either. I don't know why people view Anti-Cheat as this godlike fix all option that causes no problems and puts an end to all botting. If that was true, World of Warcraft, which uses Anti Cheat, wouldn't have the overwhelming botting problem that it has had since it first launched. Even today you can go out and see hordes of Druid gather bots flying around. All Anti cheat does is impact that average user, in some cases by creating performance issues on machines or by the false positives. And lets be honest, does anyone actually trust SE's current Customer Service team to manage researching and overturning the false positives? I know I don't.

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I think Warden(WoW's anticheat) was also made by Blizzard back when they had talent. If Square tried making their own anticheat, it would probably be as fundamentally flawed as the blacklist, and if they didn't they would presumably just grab something like Denuvo and destroy performance while accomplishing nothing(like Capcom).

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Originally Posted by programcanaan

An approval system would be a good compromise for all parties. The only reason many players including myself are in favor of anticheat is because the crossplay. Nobody wants to be disadvantaged/left out and is very uncool to have pc/consolencrossplay and not allow consoles the same features. Regulate the modsters and make them be a benefit and make sure they don't take things too far sounds like a win win.

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I understand why people desire to have anti-cheats, but it's been proven in the past they're easily bypassed, like GameGuard in Helldivers 2, and some can be used to hack your system, like Apex Legends, and others like Vanguard continuously run on your system, even after closing the game, and force-shutting the anti-cheat requires a full system reboot if you wish to play Valorant again.

Most mods are cosmetic/QoL stuff as far as I know, and yet such things should be implemented in the base game from the start: a prime example of this is Viera/Hrothgar hats. It's been 6 years and they haven't really bothered to do much, and it shows. What will then happen? People will resort to other means to get what they want if they wish to play their favorite race.

Ultimately this whole fiasco is due to SE's incompetence and refusal to listen to their players, and when they become sloppy with coding, the result is this malicious code running awry. People can cry bloody murder to introduce anti-cheat, it will be bypassed within minutes. This is exactly what happened when Aion introduced XignCode3, where you basically could copy a file before update, and replace the same file with new update. It took exactly 2 minutes for people to bypass it.

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Originally Posted by programcanaan

An approval system would be a good compromise for all parties. The only reason many players including myself are in favor of anticheat is because the crossplay. Nobody wants to be disadvantaged/left out and is very uncool to have pc/consolencrossplay and not allow consoles the same features. Regulate the modsters and make them be a benefit and make sure they don't take things too far sounds like a win win.

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Modding on console isn't really a restriction implemented by SE. It's a lot more complicated to mod on consoles due to their closed systems/infrastructure and how much more challenging it is to work around the limitations consoles have by default. Some reading if you're curious:

https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/com...soles_and_why/

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comm...ly_allowed_on/

I get the frustration of being left out (I was part of that until I saved up enough money to get my own PC and get off my Playstation) but it's kind of going to happen no matter what unless the way consoles are created changes to mimic a PC environment.
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Edit: Wanted to add, I know that with edge cases like Fallout 4 it was up to Bethesda to provide mod support on consoles but they also were comfortable with endorsing mod usage in all of their game versions and it was apparently a deal made between them and Xbox prior to its release (?). Square has stated that they do not endorse or support mod usage in this game at all (even though their actions may speak otherwise) so the odds of them going in the same direction as Bethesda seem slim to none unless they change their viewpoint on mod support and work out a deal with PS/Microsoft respectively.

Just been reading up on this and discussing it with a friend and yikes beyond belief right now.

I think this is the straw that breaks the camels back for me. Forget the game really lacking in casual content or relic content for nearly a year among other glaring issues this is blatant gross negligence.

I'll be cancelling my sub until this nonsense is resolved as I'm already a security conscious person. Never in years of playing an MMO have I seen something like personal character/account data being client side. This is not "oh spaghetti limitations" this is flat out incompetence.

The fact it's been so many days closing in on 2 weeks without an acknowledgement or response is pathetic as well. Most other MMOs would have this acknowledged at least within the first hour or two.

Once Square decide I'm worth having as a customer I'll be back. I don't know what the hell happened between Endwalker and Dawntrail but this game in general has been nosediving hard in my opinion and as I said this issue is just the straw that breaks the camels back.

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Originally Posted by Trekkie22

Once Square decide I'm worth having as a customer I'll be back.

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See you for 7.16.

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Originally Posted by Rueby

Blacklist and report them, there's nothing else you can do. If you use an alt to craft only, consider crafting in an inn room and using /busy... I think being in an instanced duty is something, but you can't enter a duty on crafters/gatherers. You can't be player searched (ingame, not the plugin) if you're in an instanced duty unless you run into someone running it (plugin) nearby, then your location would be logged (to my understanding)...

I'm so sorry... I can't offer you much comfort but this is the only advice I can give. I don't think many stalkers have the finances to keep buying service accounts just to harass someone one time only to get blocked entirely, not saying it can't happen but at some point the expense might simply not be worth it. (This is why I believe we absolutely need the account wide blacklist to stay)

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The issue is that going /busy defeats the purpose of my alt when I won't be able to chat with friends which I do a lot through cwls, parties and more.


They need to make it where if you blacklist someone, it removes you from all of their friend list if they have alts, you don't show up in Player Search results they do, makes you appear offline when they look at your apartment directory and FC if they are in the same FC as you, makes them not see you at all no matter if on alts and new characters created after being blacklisted, they don't see all of your retainers in the MB postings, your yard and inside your home/apartment/FC room (mannequins) and also bans them 24/7 from your housing plots. I like that I don't see them but they can and have been in my yard standing next to me doing who knows what and that is what bothers me, I can't craft in peace from my yard that I normally love doing since I use my housing plots heavily that way. Sure, I can lock the doors and craft inside but then none of my friends can visit me that way :(

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

See you for 7.16.

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Like the 400 000 people that left the game ?

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

See you for 7.16.

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I think that presenting such a sycophantic behaviour towards the game/devs while players also have genuine concerns about their account safety is beyond reproach right now. But you do you I guess.

I've played multiple MMOs since I was a child. I've never heard of Account and Content IDS being stored client side.

This isn't some "it should blow over issue" it's a genuine security concern and the fact we've heard nothing on top of Dawntrail being in my opinion a rather weak entry to the FF14 series is enough to convince me to take a break. I love this MMO, it can and should be better period.

I don't care who has quit the game, I don't care if you believe I'll be back but acting as if this is just some temper tantrum over a legitimate account issue is bewildering to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Rinoa_353

The issue is that going /busy defeats the purpose of my alt when I won't be able to chat with friends which I do a lot through cwls, parties and more.

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Yeah, I'm aware. Busy status only blocks tells and party/fc/trade invites, I don't like /busy either (since it's nuclear option), but you can still chat with your friends in cwls, parties and FC. I'm not saying it's ideal, but the damage has been done and these are the options that SE gave us (as bare as they are).

Nothing will happen. Square Enix doesn’t care and you will stay subscribed. You will still pay money just to idle while playing other games. You are a sucker. And as long as the company has your money, they have no reason to do anything.

https://files.catbox.moe/jpmv15.jpeg

I don't know what's more (hilariously) concerning. SE's silence, the fact certain entity with forum power made an appearance in another recently made thread of their own amidst this worrisome period, or both.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Nothing will happen. Square Enix doesn’t care and you will stay subscribed. You will still pay money just to idle while playing other games. You are a sucker. And as long as the company has your money, they have no reason to do anything.

https://files.catbox.moe/jpmv15.jpeg

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I pay via game time cards due to an issue I had once with my card. I don't plan to buy another after these 10 days are up. While I wait to see if this gets resolved I have plenty of other online and single player stuff to play.

I'm just more puzzled at what happened between Endwalker and Dawntrail because it seems such a steep cliff dive.

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Originally Posted by Trekkie22

I pay via game time cards due to an issue I had once with my card. I don't plan to buy another after these 10 days are up. While I wait to see if this gets resolved I have plenty of other online and single player stuff to play.

I'm just more puzzled at what happened between Endwalker and Dawntrail because it seems such a steep cliff dive.

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Well part of that is easy to explain. Fan favorite writer was writing for FF16. This is the expansion where they do a bunch of graphical cleaning to mixed results, mostly when it comes to double-dye and character creation stuff, so that is where a lot of work went. Dawntrail's "story" is trying to do to many things at once, not even factoring in Wuk Lamat, and doesn't really make a lot of folks happy who were expecting different things for an expansion about the "new world". Two new jobs, one is the melee equivalent of new summoner, the other is a caster that was designed for ultimates and makes black mage cry in the corner. 7.1 doesn't have any bozja-style content or relic grind for cool looking weapons. New chaotic raid for 7.1 is received with mixed reactions, same with pvp content. And the new blacklist feature doesn't actually fix the problem with stalking and only gets exacerbated because some guy was upset about being undercut for 1 gil.

There is other problems but that is the gist of it. Aside from finally being free of this fomo pvp series season's rewards, I just been enjoying Red Dead Redemption 2 and some of Red Dead Online, as that is what I wanted out of Dawntrail. Technically the expansion had some, but it's like a few drops of water in a desert.

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Originally Posted by Trekkie22

I'm just more puzzled at what happened between Endwalker and Dawntrail because it seems such a steep cliff dive.

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The warning signs were all there in Endwalker; those who spoke out about them were just discredited as doomers/haters/trancers. Think about how little content we got in Endwalker: relic steps that could feasibly be completed on a main job within 20 minutes of logging in to a fresh patch, extended patch cycles, no field zones... Players were much too distracted by the spectacle of the ARR 'finale', which was still divisive in its own right, to recognize the cutting of corners right in front of their face (or they did recognize it, but chose to remain ignorant and/or defend it). As far as I'm concerned, Dawntrail and all of its failings (including the ongoing privacy issue) are a direct consequence of the toxic positivity reinforcing the developer's poor decisions in Endwalker. CBU3 have become increasingly complacent and lazy because they know that players are too attached to their characters and world to ever affect their bottom line financially. And to be frank, I don't hate the game or think it's at risk of dying yet — I just think Square Enix need to give FFXIV the dignity it deserves as one of their major breadwinners and divert some actual effort towards it. It's honestly shameful that after two record-breaking expansions back-to-back (Shadowbringers into Endwalker), we're still somehow unable to get the quality or quantity of content necessary to satisfy the general playerbase. Especially when the updates we do get are implemented in such a shoddy way that we end up with this ridiculous privacy scandal, and SE don't even have the dignity to make a statement about it.

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Originally Posted by Clockworks

Like the 400 000 people that left the game ?

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Oh... are you unaware numbers fluctuate? Not defending the small indie company or anything... but you actually thought the numbers only ever got larger? Yikes. A lot of people who "left" will be back at a later patch, like usual.

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Originally Posted by Trekkie22

I think that presenting such a sycophantic behaviour towards the game/devs while players also have genuine concerns about their account safety is beyond reproach right now. But you do you I guess.

I've played multiple MMOs since I was a child. I've never heard of Account and Content IDS being stored client side.

This isn't some "it should blow over issue" it's a genuine security concern and the fact we've heard nothing on top of Dawntrail being in my opinion a rather weak entry to the FF14 series is enough to convince me to take a break. I love this MMO, it can and should be better period.

I don't care who has quit the game, I don't care if you believe I'll be back but acting as if this is just some temper tantrum over a legitimate account issue is bewildering to say the least.

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Sorry, I suppose I just don't run into much issue with having to blacklist people often enough for it to be a huge issue during gameplay. I understand experiences differ and maybe you get blacklisted/blacklist people more often and have this be a huge issue. This just struck me as a strange hill to die on.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Sorry, I suppose I just don't run into much issue with having to blacklist people often enough for it to be a huge issue during gameplay. I understand experiences differ and maybe you get blacklisted/blacklist people more often and have this be a huge issue. This just struck me as a strange hill to die on.

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Isn't solely down to the blacklist. Either you don't know what this addon does or you're just trolling at this point so I'm not entertaining you further.

It's flat out taking important account data and making it public because Square made it client side. Over 700k characters have already been compromised. If you can't see the urgency in that then you don't understand I guess.

It has nothing to do with who blacklists who or when or how often. Educate yourself on the matter please because it's more serious than you believe it is.

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Originally Posted by Trekkie22

Isn't solely down to the blacklist. Either you don't know what this addon does or you're just trolling at this point so I'm not entertaining you further.

It's flat out taking important account data and making it public because Square made it client side. Over 700k characters have already been compromised. If you can't see the urgency in that then you don't understand I guess.

It has nothing to do with who blacklists who or when or how often. Educate yourself on the matter please because it's more serious than you believe it is.

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"we disagree so ur trolling and/or uneducated"

Nice take.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

"we disagree so ur trolling and/or uneducated"

Nice take.

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wait you disagree that collecting character data retainer info and so is a bad thing ? sorry i just read the last page. If yes oh hell then this take was good...
For the blacklist i dont get why it is limited at all i mean yeah yeah i got it to much would implode SE hardware bla but just give this a thought.

So you have someone who is a shoooooood person to you or just do something what makes you feel bad and you never wanna play with this person again and then there is a limit for 200 people like if you want to put another one in here make space for this person and allow one of the other shooooty persons be shoooooot again lol

Weekly micro patches might be a thing. It won't solve the blacklist issues, but it might mitigate some damage by breaking the plogon in question. It could buy square some time to come up with a better solution. I know that Throne and Liberty updates weekly and players are quite satisfied with that.

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Originally Posted by shygirly

when peoples private data are being compromised, it should seriously be considered. like, look at valorant, there are hackers n such that bypass vanguard, but they are banned almost instantly. square enix should prioritize the normal playerbase, not mod beasts who only play this game cause of mods. people who say the game will lose 70% subs for adding anti-cheat are seriously just coping anyway, mods aside, this is one of the best RP games out there, way better than games like world of warcraft even. im not against plugins, but this one in particiular has crossed the line in my opinion and has shown the potential danger with them.

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Honestly, Anti-cheat only harms the normal users/the users who responsibly (for how much you can do that I guess) use those "things"
it's like companies adding DRM to their new games, in 99% of the cases it harms the paying customer more than the pirates, anti-cheat is no different, it won't keep out the people who want to cheat, it won't make it more difficult either.
You can say "look at Valorant!" but also "look at Apex Legends!" "look at CoD!" both games are infested with cheaters and blatand at that, not subtle aimbot or PSI, but outright hard aimbot and the anti-cheat doesn't pick up on it, so an anti-cheat is more likely to be detrimental.

But also people freaking out about this, the new blacklist system literally makes them invisible to you, then can stand near you and hug you I guess, but you won't ever notice it, can't exactly "harass" someone if that person can't even acknowledge you anymore.
Also, blacklisting 1 person blacklists the entire account, so they need to either go free trial (which means they can't speak to you) or pay for a service account, which is roughly 13-14 euro's a month, and both takes more time than just "right click, blacklist"

Besides, even the best anti-cheat is not going to be good enough in this case. This is about data harvesting from the network traffic. You could even just put a sniffer on your router and silently just scan what is going through, and then run it through some analytics code that doesn't even need to sit on the same physical computer as the game client.

EDIT: However, unlike the poster above, I consider stalking to be VERY serious, and the argument that you can just make your stalker invisible to you is no way to answer that. If you have never been seriously stalked, you do not know how far some people will go to ruin your life if you won't indulge their fantasy for them. They will watch who you hang out with, look which FC you are in now, spread lies about you to other FC members, manipulate others into passing messages to you or trying to get some information out of or about you, etc. When you are out in public, they may start badmouthing you in public chat and you wouldn't even know since to you that's blacklisted, but everyone around is going to hear it, assume you're part of some drama, and it is just going to ruin your chances to socialize normally. There is SO much more to being stalked than just someone jumping up and down in your sight and only making nasty chats at you directly.

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Originally Posted by Eyrilona

Besides, even the best anti-cheat is not going to be good enough in this case. This is about data harvesting from the network traffic. You could even just put a sniffer on your router and silently just scan what is going through, and then run it through some analytics code that doesn't even need to sit on the same physical computer as the game client.

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Emphasis mine. This is the place where anti-cheat wouldn't stop the issue at all. Even if all plugins went down, a separate app/program can be created to continue harvesting information.

Anti-cheat is not a magic wand that will immediately solve all the issues, this requires developer input, and SE has been slacking.

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Originally Posted by darkdyllon

Honestly, Anti-cheat only harms the normal users/the users who responsibly (for how much you can do that I guess) use those "things"
it's like companies adding DRM to their new games, in 99% of the cases it harms the paying customer more than the pirates, anti-cheat is no different, it won't keep out the people who want to cheat, it won't make it more difficult either.
You can say "look at Valorant!" but also "look at Apex Legends!" "look at CoD!" both games are infested with cheaters and blatand at that, not subtle aimbot or PSI, but outright hard aimbot and the anti-cheat doesn't pick up on it, so an anti-cheat is more likely to be detrimental.

But also people freaking out about this, the new blacklist system literally makes them invisible to you, then can stand near you and hug you I guess, but you won't ever notice it, can't exactly "harass" someone if that person can't even acknowledge you anymore.
Also, blacklisting 1 person blacklists the entire account, so they need to either go free trial (which means they can't speak to you) or pay for a service account, which is roughly 13-14 euro's a month, and both takes more time than just "right click, blacklist"

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Normally I would agree with this, but the people who are petty enough to make use of the database that exposes your alts, retainers, and movement history are likely petty enough to buy new accounts to keep harassing you. Stalkers aren't known for being calm and level headed individuals and I've seen the new account thing done before. But now not only can they make a new account to harass your main but they can do so to your alts. Meaning, as long as they have disposable income you can't just hide on an alt until it blows over.

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Originally Posted by Dante131

wait you disagree that collecting character data retainer info and so is a bad thing ? sorry i just read the last page. If yes oh hell then this take was good...
For the blacklist i dont get why it is limited at all i mean yeah yeah i got it to much would implode SE hardware bla but just give this a thought.

So you have someone who is a shoooooood person to you or just do something what makes you feel bad and you never wanna play with this person again and then there is a limit for 200 people like if you want to put another one in here make space for this person and allow one of the other shooooty persons be shoooooot again lol

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The limit is goofy, actually reaching the limit is funny too.

I found an interesting read from a person named Notnite. I would link the website but that'd probably get my post taken down, but there's mention of the possible outcomes to this whole fiasco. To quote:

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The exploit is the fault of Square Enix’s, in my opinion, but they probably won’t care about fixing the blacklist system. What they will do is unknown, but there are a few options I can envision:

- The tool dies down and nobody cares anymore.
- Square Enix kills [redacted] in some way. They have many ways to do this, from adding client-side anti-cheat, to adding some basic obfuscation in their build system, to turning on a compiler option that’ll ruin our work. There are several ways to kill [redacted] that doesn’t involve anti-cheats, though!
- Square Enix fixes the blacklist system, treating it as an exploit. I find this unlikely, given that the exploit is the result of a third party tool, and it’s likely more efficient for them to just kill the tool.
- The developer continues maintaining the tool, and it gains popularity. Like other third party tools, it is mentioned carelessly in chat, furthering the infestation of third party tools into Square Enix’s userbase.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

The limit is goofy, actually reaching the limit is funny too.

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well it happens faster then you might think. The community is not the one it once was. Other send people to blacklist if they leave grps after they got the mount while tanking the floor the whole time. Reasons are diffrent in the end 200 is actually not a big number. Funny? maybe good? no surprising? also no

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Originally Posted by Dante131

well it happens faster then you might think. The community is not the one it once was. Other send people to blacklist if they leave grps after they got the mount while tanking the floor the whole time. Reasons are diffrent in the end 200 is actually not a big number. Funny? maybe good? no surprising? also no

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I was never under the illusion this community was some magical place where everyone was besties.