Bring back deleveling in 2.0

I'd rather play Diablo Hardcore mode then have my character delevel, and I do.
Bring THAT to FFXIV! Hardcore Servers. New in 2.0


Because deleveling is for ... ahem.

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Originally Posted by Figgleleaf

I'd rather play Diablo Hardcore mode then have my character delevel, and I do.
Bring THAT to FFXIV! Hardcore Servers. New in 2.0


Because deleveling is for ... ahem.

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Yes, I want to cut the noobs and when I'm healing, I will let all die so I can laugh at them!

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Originally Posted by Nikita

No thanks to de-leveling. The most annoying thing in FFXI was doing some event, de-level, and be under the required level for your gear and have to do the rest of the event half naked.

Why is there even a need for a massive death penalty? I can't think of any reason, and that is most likely why most MMOs are doing away with them now. Death is a penalty in itself, especially in a timed dungeon run. A full wipe even more so.

Personally, seeing as fatigue was one of the first things abolished after Yoshi-P came on board as the new director/producer of FFXIV, I never see this being added and I am thankful for that.

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HA, really? So you are saying you feel like "FRICK DANG IT DIED OMGS NOOOOOOOO", every time you die? Pretty sure you have died over 1000 times, pretty sure you only felt a few of those deaths.

Death is a big thing, it shouldn't be taken lightly.

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

One of the best features of FFXI is not present right now in FFXIV.
Deleveling was a necessary element as the game doesn't punish you enough for dying in FFXIV.
Oh look, your gear condition has lowered by 10%! And you have to return to a home point. Is this supposed to be scary? NO.
I want to feel terrified of dying. I want to **** my pants every time I enter a dungeon or face a threatening enemy. This game NEEDS the element of constant fear.
Stop cattering to the casual market, and please try to bring back hardcore elements from the old FFXI days.


Please bring back deleveling for 2.0!!!

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Err... No thanks?

As someone who still plays FFXI let me tell you that I never enjoyed the deleveling. I thought the process was frustrating and pointless. It didn't give me any element of fear, simply frustration. Once you've eaten dirt consecutively you stop fearing deleveling. It turns into frustration because of tripple weakness or the fact that you're going down repeatedly and are unable to do much as a result.

I know I am not alone in my views.

Catering to the casual market is what will earn this game money. WoW didn't get to be an industry giant by catering to the so called hard core players. It came to be an industry giant by "catering" to casuals. Sorry to say that this game won't be saved on the dime of the "hard core" players. There just isn't enough of them when compared to the casual market.

Look, I'm not saying SE should ignore the hard core players. I think the hard core players deserve whatever it is that floats their boat just so as long as...
1. SE doesn't cater to them solely
and...
2. it doesn't effect the casuals.

Also, I get this feeling that you think casuals want things handed to them on a silver platter? If that is the case, well... You're wrong. Even casuals are willing to work for their gear and levels it's just that we're not fond of as big of time synchs as the hard cores, and you know what else? Casuals are fans of intermediate rewards.

In FFXI it took a year (or more in some cases) to reach level 100 in a craft. That's far too long. I hope that they do not add things like that in FFXIV 2.0.

If you want an element of fear in the game for dying or for whatever, that's fine. Should that be de-leveling, no, I don't think it should.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I wish I had a fear of dying to be honest.. Have too much gil that repairs don't put a dent into it.. and I don;t lose exp for dying.. While I don't particularly like the Idea of Deleveling, but I do think this game needs a better Death Penalty so it gets people not caring if their character dies or not, when they can just Return and come back.

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Oh, so you do agree with me that there should be a stricter death penalty, thanks for finally changing your mind!~

If there is one thing that would make me quit this game, it's delevling. I could accept a stronger weakness though, like a 10% temporary stat reduction even when single-weak.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

If there is one thing that would make me quit this game, it's delevling. I could accept a stronger weakness though, like a 10% temporary stat reduction even when single-weak.

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That's not going to make anyone be like OH NO OMGS AAAhHHH I DIED!~
I agree that losing exp is not the right solution to this, though, Demon souls got me really pumped when I died.

Having to spend forever running back to a remote area (or spending my already low anima) pisses me off enough already. I don't need to feel scared of dying when grinding trash mobs for exp, but running around Turning Leaf alone as a whm47, looking for my af chest, that puts my heart rate at 150+ even if I don't lose any exp from dying.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Oh, so you do agree with me that there should be a stricter death penalty, thanks for finally changing your mind!~

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I always had agreed with it.. I just don't agree with exp loss

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Having to spend forever running back to a remote area (or spending my already low anima) pisses me off enough already. I don't need to feel scared of dying when grinding trash mobs for exp, but running around Turning Leaf alone as a whm47, looking for my af chest, that puts my heart rate at 150+ even if I don't lose any exp from dying.

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This, I agree with- completely.

Especially the bit about the running back to a remote area. -______-; The anima in this game needs to recover, way, way, WAY faster than it is now. sheesh

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

This, I agree with- completely.

Especially the bit about the running back to a remote area. -______-; The anima in this game needs to recover, way, way, WAY faster than it is now. sheesh

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You can trade in some hamlet rewards for anima.

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

The anima in this game needs to recover, way, way, WAY faster than it is now. sheesh

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Wait...what? Really? No I'm serious really?

What do you mean by "Remote area" you can teleport and walk to anywhere withing 5 minutes, you can regain anima by trading gear, items to hamlets, set 2 homepoints, and you still don't have enough anima?

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

This, I agree with- completely.

Especially the bit about the running back to a remote area. -______-; The anima in this game needs to recover, way, way, WAY faster than it is now. sheesh

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I'm not sure if you know or not, but you get 100 anima if you win Hamlet Defense once with 60k+ score.
You can even get 30 anima if you win with lower score.

You also get turn-in items from caravan quest which can be used for more anima.

You can even buy items off the wards which you can then turn in for more anima.

Yes, anima is not unlimited, but I do not think that was the intent.

De-leveling is not a bad idea, but they will have to change every other aspect of combat to support that. Most specifically, it should not be possible to die so fast. De-levelling works when dying is hard. But here, it is so easy to die that it makes no sense. Presently it would be:

Let's try Garuda.
Died.
Okey, back to levelling, we'll try again next week.


Should they change all the mechanics to support de-levelling, then the question becomes: Is it really a worthwhile mechanic to have. I do not think ANYONE enjoys the de-levelling aspect, and am uncertain how it would make the 'game' more 'fun'.

Perhaps a more compromise of stiffer death penalties can be introduced. Presently no one really cares about dying, so it is a bit too extreme in that direction. Minor repairs and a 5 minute walk is hardly a penalty.

I'd like to see Deleveling AND losing durability together as a death penalty.

Death should be feared and avoided.

Been replaying Dark Souls lately and the rush you get from knowing that everything is on the line if this goddamn Invader kills me half way through the stage is awesome.

But just a longer weakness timer should be enough. lol

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Originally Posted by Arkine

I'd like to see Deleveling AND losing durability together as a death penalty.

Death should be feared and avoided.

Been replaying Dark Souls lately and the rush you get from knowing that everything is on the line if this goddamn Invader kills me half way through the stage is awesome.

But just a longer weakness timer should be enough. lol

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Man, finally some gets it, if you fear death the game becomes more awesome!~

Indeed! :)

Death can be feared without incurring loss of progress. Personally I prefer death penalties that still allow me to play but severely gimp what I can do (like second weakness for example). Lower my stats, gimp my damage and make me hate it, but don't take away what I've already earned. Negative reinforcement is not a good learning tool.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

Death can be feared without incurring loss of progress. Personally I prefer death penalties that still allow me to play but severely gimp what I can do (like second weakness for example). Lower my stats, gimp my damage and make me hate it, but don't take away what I've already earned. Negative reinforcement is not a good learning tool.

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ok, but you don't fear it... you are not like "CRAP OMG ABOUT TO DIE!" you die and get back up with really no regrets.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

ok, but you don't fear it... you are not like "CRAP OMG ABOUT TO DIE!" you die and get back up with really no regrets.

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You've clearly never played Paladin.

Death can invoke the following penalty: Failure of the event.

I agree, with loss of XP. Thing is XP is not very hard to earn anyway, so i dont think people will be that scared:/

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Originally Posted by Alerith

You've clearly never played Paladin.

Death can invoke the following penalty: Failure of the event.

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Oh NO which I can just re enter!~

Oh wait, I've beat moogle and ifrit without paladin..... and everything else.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Oh NO which I can just re enter!~

Oh wait, I've beat moogle and ifrit without paladin..... and everything else.

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The same mentality can be said for exp loss and deleveling.

Oh no, exp I can just get back. Big deal.

If you want a real reason to fear "death" support character deletion for running out of HP. Anything else is the same minor annoyance.

If anything it is the prevalence of teleportation that kills the fear of death.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Right, because conjuring up an extreme example that no one would agree with is always the best way to present a counter-argument.



Death penalty has absolutely nothing to do with player skill.

Do you actually have an opinion or counter-argument worth discussing? Something of value to offer on the topic? Or are ridiculous strawmen and ad-hominems all you're good for?

There are people in this thread giving very compelling counter-arguments against xp loss, ones well worth discussing or debating. Maybe you should let them handle it.

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Hmmmm aren't we a wee bit rude. Scroll back a few pages or so you might find this:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I hate delevel system, it's so dumb.

A debt system is easier.

The more you die, the higher you debt becomes.

Say you die as a 50 paladin, your exp debt is now 100,000 exp. you kill a mob worth 1000 exp. 500 exp goes to your actually level, while the other 500 goes to the debt. You will not get full exp until the debt is paid. If your level 50 the debt won't matter it won't go down cause your not gaining exp to your level bar. But when you try to level another class that isn't 50 then debt will become active.

Now there should be a limit, for example you die 10 times. That will be the maximum amount times till the exp debt will no longer go any higher. 100,000 exp debt each death x10 being the maximum deaths = 1 million exp debt to pay off.

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No, please. : (
We're on fast leveling don't mean we should have deleveling to balance it.

This is not FFXI. If you like deleveling go play FFXI.

Get rid of PL, Add in XP loss... Everyone not only learns how to do their job, they learn to do it well or they never get invited to parties to level up and therefore never level up and now there are a lot less newbs to F up my fun.

Forget the whole XP loss thing, since you all are so "hardcore" lets just have permanent deaths, our levels reset to 1 and all of our hard earned gil and items deleted so we have to restart all over again.
PROBLEM SOLVED. (I came here from FFXI and I don't want to play it's HD clone)

One way to make death (KO really) more impactful is to introduce a maximum KO penalty in certain dungeons (and replace the speed-run bonuses)

I would much rather do a dungeon run where you get the final chest only if the party has suffered less that 5 KOs than a dungeon run where we have to race past all the content to beat it in under 15 min. (a certain Monster Hunting game did something like this and it worked out nicely)

But XP loss/deleving... no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

Get rid of PL, Add in XP loss... Everyone not only learns how to do their job, they learn to do it well or they never get invited to parties to level up and therefore never level up and now there are a lot less newbs to F up my fun.

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lol.......

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I would personally be fine with xp loss as a penalty.

Personally, it was never a big deal to me in XI, and I really don't understand why people get so up in arms about it.

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Most of the people speaking against it never had the experience of playing in a world where XP death penalty was the rule, and therefore know not what they are talking about. I have had conversations with people from my server that were adamant opponents to "de-leveling" because they thought you'd lose a level every time you died.

Our community is a variegated one, many people come from FFXI, but many, many others never played that game. Of those that did, some (a minority) played it for a certain period (mainly a short time) and then decided they liked other MMOs that were, perhaps, visually more colorful, or maybe easier. One's previous experiences define one's culture. And definitely many don't find the culture of Everquest/Lineage/FFXI to be a congenial one. I for one, liked that culture very much, and have trouble adapting, consistently finding differently minded games (which tend to be the rule among new ones) to be lacking.

Recently I found this on the internet, and it resonated deeply within me (I edited out--well, perhaps I left a hint--the name of the game the person refers to, in order to stick to posting policy):

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How I Feel About E***q**** in 17 Words

Danger. Risk. Survival. Freedom. Mystery. Fantasy. Discovery. Camaraderie. Community. Escape. Defeat. Victory. Gain. Loss. Excellence. Skill. Excitement.

Great art makes you feel something. [The game] made me feel many things. Contrast that to today’s heavily scripted MMOs that don’t make me feel anything except contempt. These new breed of slick MMOs are largely a cold, lifeless, predictable and repetitive series of scripted experiences dressed up with beautiful artwork and exquisitely detailed animations.

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I found the above-quoted, and linked, writ to be extremely pertinent to the discussion on this thread, even though it refers to a different game. This, however, was the game that inspired FFXI, and FFXI tends to be the source of contention in comments about FFXIV.

R

I agree with the fact there should be a higher penalty, but death exp was one of the things I absolutely HATED in XI. Not only did it become frustrating when you were in a non-communicative LS party, but when you're fighting something tough and the rate it took to get back up made me want to cry. In fact, after two delevels in one day over fighting some boss a few years ago made me quit the game.

Of course, the exp gains won't be nearly as bad, but then that points out that the exp loss isn't really that threatening as a result.

I say throw in something else. I like the idea of debt penalty or the speed run treasure chest, but don't bring back more XI mechanics than we already have now.

No, I played 11 for long enough, I'm fine with having to fix my gear when I die, I do not want to worry about losing access to a level capped piece/ability.

I'm telling you, lose 10 anima per death and people will suddenly shudder in fear of actually walking. Hamlet items will skyrocket in price and the world will end.

If you want people to be scared in this game put their lazy teleportation access in jeopardy.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

I'm not sure if you know or not, but you get 100 anima if you win Hamlet Defense once with 60k+ score.
You can even get 30 anima if you win with lower score.

You also get turn-in items from caravan quest which can be used for more anima.

You can even buy items off the wards which you can then turn in for more anima.

Yes, anima is not unlimited, but I do not think that was the intent.

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To be perfectly honest, I have no idea. At all. Hearing you and others say this I was like "O_O!! say what?"

I'm a returning player and all I noticed was "I'm running out of anima... again... why gods... whyyy!!"

Thank you for informing me though. I know a few people who also returned to the game that will be happy to hear this news.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I'm telling you, lose 10 anima per death and people will suddenly shudder in fear of actually walking. Hamlet items will skyrocket in price and the world will end.

If you want people to be scared in this game put their lazy teleportation access in jeopardy.

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Something like I suggested!!
though, nobody wanted to build off of it ; ;

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...99-Anima-Death

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9v6MaWdN8Y...azyDilemma.png

Not sure how people who run out of anima in a few days don't have this happen to them.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9v6MaWdN8Y...azyDilemma.png

Not sure how people who run out of anima in a few days don't have this happen to them.

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Because having to walk through the same copypasta landscape for 12 minutes back and forth everyday is mind-numbingly boring and should never exist in a game in the first place. We're allowed to teleport and regenerate anima quickly because SE knows this, which is why the entire world is being revamped for 2.0.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Because having to walk through the same copypasta landscape for 12 minutes back and forth everyday is mind-numbingly boring and should never exist in a game in the first place. We're allowed to teleport and regenerate anima quickly because SE knows this, which is why the entire world is being revamped for 2.0.

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you don't say? I myself like to look at the sky, it's suuupppperr pretty, at night.