Zepla about FFXIV Relic and Square Enix not taking any Risks

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Originally Posted by BRVV

It was a simple sentence. Maybe you need rest. Take care of yourself

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No it's because it was without context over if it was talking about the VIEWERS, or the STREAMERS.

It's so disrespectful when someone tries to use mental health in a passive aggressive tone.

It's okay though, we chill. lol

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Originally Posted by R041

To be fair, everything's a bad portrayal on my part. lol

I watch most of these streamers, and watch their vids on Youtube. I don't even agree with everything they say of course - but I try to support them as much as possible, because it's all we have.

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I would look at it relatively speaking. The forums are a cesspool at the moment. There's very little merit in actually taking anything seriously on here because everyone is so antagonistic towards each other, myself included at times. At this point even a bad portrayal, even if not a bad point is still an upgrade these days....

I watch the ones where I feel like I can withstand their personality, or find them entertaining, personally. e.g., I could watch streamers like Fahros (when he played), Xenosys (on occasion), Frosty (I'll pretty much put Mogtalk on as background noise and listen), and Angelus Demonus.

I can't say that I support all the streamers, but I do appreciate what they do, and in the same vein won't actually go out of my way to hate on them just because they're a streamer. If they do something then I may comment on it but it's hardly anything like "Stummer, must hate."

Disclaimer: I am responding to things discussed in this topic and have not watched Zepla's video.

I'm among those disappointed by the relic. A relic quest to me has always been a reason to log into the game between patches. I like having a grind to chip away at when I feel like being on XIV. I also hold the unpopular opinion that the ARR books were a fine relic step-I got tomes to buy the books from my regular dailies in game and then when I got a new book it felt good to have specific goals to aim for and check off. The current relic has been me buying one immediately upon the patch going live and then sometimes picking another up when I accumulated enough tomes. I don't feel motivated to actively go for them at all.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea SE isn't taking any risks. I feel that it's closer to the situation back in patch 3.1-the risks they have taken have not panned out. Back then it was Verminion and original Diadem, now its Island Sanctuary and Variant/Criterion. I think I enjoy the new content more than the average person here, but even I can say it hasn't been enough. Course back in 3.1 we had a brutally grindy relic to fill time....it's possible for things to swing too far back haha.

Personally for me the last time I felt this bored in game was mid Stormblood, around the time the Anata tribe was released. Back then I did not enjoy Eureka and many of my friends had quit playing. And even then, I did end up playing more during the end of Stormblood when Eureka became more tolerable. I do not believe that the variant dungeons and Island Sanctuary will be able to fill up time as well during the last few patches of Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by R041

No it's because it was without context over if it was talking about the VIEWERS, or the STREAMERS.

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Ah i see.

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Originally Posted by R041

It's so disrespectful when someone tries to use mental health in a passive aggressive tone.

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You also frequently post, often double-post, today. I assumed you might be exhausted. Didn't want to come off as rude that's why i added that.

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Originally Posted by R041

It's okay though, we chill. lol

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Cool :)

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I would look at it relatively speaking. The forums are a cesspool at the moment. There's very little merit in actually taking anything seriously on here because everyone is so antagonistic towards each other, myself included at times. At this point even a bad portrayal, even if not a bad point is still an upgrade these days....

I watch the ones where I feel like I can withstand their personality, or find them entertaining, personally. e.g., I could watch streamers like Fahros (when he played), Xenosys (on occasion), Frosty (I'll pretty much put Mogtalk on as background noise and listen), and Angelus Demonus.

I can't say that I support all the streamers, but I do appreciate what they do, and in the same vein won't actually go out of my way to hate on them just because they're a streamer. If they do something then I may comment on it but it's hardly anything like "Stummer, must hate."

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It's not just these forums though. It's spreading, and it's getting really bad. We're not even to the pre-expac lull yet and we're already at each other's throats.

Unfortunately I started even reading some of the youtube comments, and they're getting kinda nasty. Like these are just content creators and players asking for a little more variety is all, and it's like we're rabid.

It kinda seems like Zepla might legitimately be in a defensive spiral because there's no positivity her way from XIV and XIV players. She may not want to even come back, and that's a HUGE hit to us as much as some people want to sit here and say she doesn't help the community.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

You also frequently post, often double-post, today. I assumed you might be exhausted. Didn't want to come off as rude that's why i added that.

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YOU DON'T TELL ME I DOUBLE POST SIR.. OR MA'AM.

(it's okay, I forgive you)

I am a bit torn on the topic of relics. On the one hand, I would have loved a longer grind with a more immersive story then what we have. The Bozja storyline is one of the best in the game I feel and had some really fun elements. On the other, I can understand why SE perhaps does not want another long grind item hunt when we already have several. Especially if it ends up being content that risks becoming defunct or gates people from completing once people move on to the new expansion. I feel they could have come to an easy bypass at least.

Eh, I don't really agree with Zepla, but I do agree that the use of the secondary tomestone as the resource when that tomestone is already used for crafting materials and catchup gear is kind of not the best plan. This should have used poetics just because poetics have been reduced to such a joke lately that you can't even find justifiable reason to offload them when capped.

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Originally Posted by R041

It's not just these forums though. It's spreading, and it's getting really bad. We're not even to the pre-expac lull yet and we're already at each other's throats.

Unfortunately I started even reading some of the youtube comments, and they're getting kinda nasty. Like these are just content creators and players asking for a little more variety is all, and it's like we're rabid.

It kinda seems like Zepla might legitimately be in a defensive spiral because there's no positivity her way from XIV and XIV players. She may not want to even come back, and that's a HUGE hit to us as much as some people want to sit here and say she doesn't help the community.

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I personally think will be the worst of it. Depending on the graphical update, I think can easily single-handedly carry players through to the next expansion as it gets revealed. Again, depending. Equally, the fact it will be an expansion is basically putting a carrot in front of people. Regardless of how bad this carrot was for some, they'll still bite.

I never read comments, honestly, and precisely for this reason. In some fashion people defending can be a little more in-your-face about trying to dismiss or outright harass over criticisms. But equally, they have always been abused, be it direct or otherwise. e.g., people would quickly dismiss praise (albeit not directly), under the premise that they're a streamer, and shouldn't be taken seriously because they're effectively 'paid to like the game' - I will say though, seeing the forums has made me realize just how toxic the community can be - I don't necessarily ascribe this to one particular group either, but just in general. I would even go as far as to say those who are not being toxic are after a fashion just trying to assert some moral superiority. That being said, I'm not always innocent, but I'm pretty much self-aware unlike some.

I think she will - I think she's cognizant enough of how the community can be from a lot of angles. I think the passion for the game will simply outweigh the toxicity that can triangulate from it.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

everyone is so antagonistic towards each other, myself included at times

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We love a RARE moment of self awareness on the forums

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Originally Posted by R041

It's kinda funny watching the community basically turn on the only content creators they have left. Right now Twitch is just a bunch of night club DJs with 10-30 viewers, random players doing MSQ for views, and sometimes Xeno.

"Yeah, I never liked them anyway" - Too bad they the only hype generators you got..

Remember when everyone was excited we started getting content creators from WoW and other MMOs hyping us up, then they all just.. Disappeared?

Now you turn on the ones that have been here for years. Pretty messed up.

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It is not content to watch streams, it is content if people actually play the game, I don't get the content creator thing you are talking about, this is an MMORPG, sure guides and whatever can be called for usefull content, but it is not content creation at all... several people make guides and or show the mechanics out there.

Why would be watch actual content and not play it? The target group could never be FFXIV players for that if you want to create awareness then it must be people out there that ha snever heard of the game or might want to give it a try, because they have seen some gameplay.

I could not in the wildest dreams simp over some Streamer IF I GOT the game and IF I am actually playing it as well, as to patch notes and the likes, the official sources is best.

And nope this is not the community turning onto the so called 'big' streamers out there, this is the streamers turning on the community with pretty much only showing stuff we already are experiencing in live actually playing the game, to create content for FFXIV with streaming, you actually need to be creative and eg. not just be a parrot telling what the patchnotes is about and showing datamined content, where you use third party tools to have pulled out this or that new minion or mount, before anyone could even get one.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

With how little behavior and tone is moderated here, I wouldn't come here as a dev either. They really need to hire full time community mods like ESO.

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Moderation is definitely a problem. But it is a separate problem. The devs should be receiving and processing feedback whether or not the forum behavior is poor. Imagine if the answer to "why aren't you listening to feedback?" was "because it hurts my feelings". That's an exaggeration but you get the idea.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

It is not content to watch streams, it is content if people actually play the game, I don't get the content creator thing you are talking about, this is an MMORPG, sure guides and whatever can be called for usefull content, but it is not content creation at all... several people make guides and or show the mechanics out there.

Why would be watch actual content and not play it? The target group could never be FFXIV players for that if you want to create awareness then it must be people out there that ha snever heard of the game or might want to give it a try, because they have seen some gameplay.

I could not in the wildest dreams simp over some Streamer IF I GOT the game and IF I am actually playing it as well, as to patch notes and the likes, the official sources is best.

And nope this is not the community turning onto the so called 'big' streamers out there, this is the streamers turning on the community with pretty much only showing stuff we already are experiencing in live actually playing the game, to create content for FFXIV with streaming, you actually need to be creative and eg. not just be a parrot telling what the patchnotes is about and showing datamined content, where you use third party tools to have pulled out this or that new minion or mount, before anyone could even get one.

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This rant feels like grandpa who cannot believe and accept that playing video games professionally is a thing.

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Originally Posted by Demolisher

We love a RARE moment of self awareness on the forums

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Who knows,

If you're lucky maybe you'll witness such an event once more...

But I will take this as a compliment, for better or worse.

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Originally Posted by Frodnoxx

Moderation is definitely a problem. But it is a separate problem. The devs should be receiving and processing feedback whether or not the forum behavior is poor. Imagine if the answer to "why aren't you listening to feedback?" was "because it hurts my feelings". That's an exaggeration but you get the idea.

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Well honestly a lot of game studios protect their devs from a raging playerbase, and most of them do not engage with a lot of the types of posts we see here for a good reason. These are working professionals and a lot of gamers on the internet can get unnecessarily nasty and dealing with that isn't part of the job description. Some discussed actually developing mental health issues exposing themselves to constant over-the-top negativity gamers can throw at them.

You had commented that you haven't seen any posts here, and I think it's the poor quality of these forums and lack of moderation that is why. I have seen devs interact on very well moderated forums, at least for a time. But without that here they have no real incentive to come here - and if they do definitely no incentive to post and open themselves up to the behavior tolerated here.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Well honestly a lot of game studios protect their devs from a raging playerbase, and most of them do not engage with a lot of the types of posts we see here for a good reason. These are working professionals and a lot of gamers on the internet can get unnecessarily nasty and dealing with that isn't part of the job description. Some discussed actually developing mental health issues exposing themselves to constant over-the-top negativity gamers can throw at them.

You had commented that you haven't seen any posts here, and I think it's the poor quality of these forums and lack of moderation that is why. I have seen devs interact on very well moderated forums, at least for a time. But without that here they have no real incentive to come here - and if they do definitely no incentive to post and open themselves up to the behavior tolerated here.

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Certainly the devs should focus on actually coding and building the game. There should be a pipeline of people that gets the information from here to the developer's work. A pipeline like: community reps that specialize in interacting with people on the internet collects information and passes it to project leaders and designers who process and then adjust what they get developers to work on. That first step - the people who are trained for interacting with people and for whom internet tolerance is a qualification - has been lacking here and is blocking the rest of the pipeline. For these guys, the playerbase being unruly is not an excuse to neglect their role.

I should be clear that NO ONE, least of all someone just doing their 9-5 job deserves any harassment or toxicity. Unfortunately the internet is what it is and it would irresponsible of a business to sacrifice collecting feedback just so they don't have to engage in a difficult part of the job. The mental health of workers comes first and this issue is of much higher priority than any in game complaint that anyone can come up with. If indeed feedback isn't going through because of this environment then they should be putting resources into fixing that as a first step in fixing the feedback-development cycle of the game. As it stands, we have no dev responses, no community rep interactions, AND no moderation.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

It is not content to watch streams, it is content if people actually play the game, I don't get the content creator thing you are talking about, this is an MMORPG, sure guides and whatever can be called for usefull content, but it is not content creation at all... several people make guides and or show the mechanics out there.

Why would be watch actual content and not play it? The target group could never be FFXIV players for that if you want to create awareness then it must be people out there that ha snever heard of the game or might want to give it a try, because they have seen some gameplay.

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Do you legitimately not comprehend that content creators are the ones that more often than not, push community driven events? It's not always about WATCHING, it's about being involved in the day to day activities. They're a huge part of how MMOs are engaging socially.


https://i.imgur.com/owBjEBj.png

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Like it or not, content creators bring in players and help drive the social space for an MMO at times. So thinking that they shouldnt exist is kinda shooting yourself in the foot for the popularity of the community. Obviously they're not the sole driving aspect of it (unless you happen to be Asmongold) but its an outlet that help keeps the game thriving.

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Idk if that was actually at me, or a follow up. lol

But yes. 1000%

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Originally Posted by R041

Do you legitimately not comprehend that content creators are the ones that more often than not, push community driven events? It's not always about WATCHING, it's about being involved in the day to day activities. They're a huge part of how MMOs are engaging socially.

https://i.imgur.com/owBjEBj.png

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Like it or not, content creators bring in players and help drive the social space for an MMO at times. So thinking that they shouldnt exist is kinda shooting yourself in the foot for the popularity of the community. Obviously they're not the sole driving aspect of it (unless you happen to be Asmongold) but its an outlet that help keeps the game thriving.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Like it or not, content creators bring in players and help drive the social space for an MMO at times.

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Sadly the most social this game is that I've seen is RP spamming.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I like Zepla but I don't know why people keep posting this link like it's some gospel. I have my own relationship to FFXIV and gaming in general, and Zepla's personal opinion for herself has no bearing on that.

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This, ladies and gents, is what a well adjusted adult opinion looks like.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

MrHappy said this??? That's incredibly surprising to me, I think that's actually the most scathing (as much as he can be that is) thing I've ever seen him say about the game.

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Nah, not really, though it might be the most scathing at the time.

Someone once asked him if we could go back to pre-SB and he said no, and I quote "Gordias almost killed the game a SECOND time."

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Originally Posted by Renathras

a well adjusted adult opinion

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https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/f/a...1fc0_96x96.jpg

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I like Zepla but I don't know why people keep posting this link like it's some gospel. I have my own relationship to FFXIV and gaming in general, and Zepla's personal opinion for herself has no bearing on that.

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I don't like Zepla, but yeah pretty much this. I agree with her on a lot of the things she said in that video, but I can't say I really care what she thinks.

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Originally Posted by R041

https://i.imgur.com/owBjEBj.png

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I am taking this meme. It is mine now.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

With how little behavior and tone is moderated here, I wouldn't come here as a dev either. They really need to hire full time community mods like ESO.

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ESO has great mods! They answer stuff, they join in the fun, I saw them countlessly give people information or go out of their way to send people sounds from in game that they wanted to use as a phone ringer xD.

Once I got into a fight and even though I didn’t get banned they sent me an email to tell me nicely that if someone jumps off a bridge I shouldn’t jump as well D:……
Why no I did not take their advice as you can often see :3

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Originally Posted by hunkygladiator

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/f/a...1fc0_96x96.jpg

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At least he is not playing a furry

btw: are you and HunkyGladiator the same person? Could make your alts at least look different

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Originally Posted by BRVV

At least he is not playing a furry

btw: are you and HunkyGladiator the same person? Could make your alts at least look different

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Sadly that's the only "good" Hrothgar face...

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

Sadly that's the only "good" Hrothgar face...

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No good Kimahri lookalike? :O

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

Sadly that's the only "good" Hrothgar face...

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Hey you

I feel attacked:mad:

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Hey you

I feel attacked:mad:

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Narrator: "This was when the Hrothgar wars began. It was a long battle with no one being a-hat..."

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Originally Posted by BRVV

At least he is not playing a furry

btw: are you and HunkyGladiator the same person? Could make your alts at least look different

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That's only because there are many you don't know about.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

FF14 Fanboys when streamer praise game: see we are better than WoW, at least our streamers enjoy the game!

FF14 Fanboys when streamer criticize the game: yeah fuck them who cares about them anyway

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I don't think anyone has actively turned on Zepla except the people in the FF14 community that went after her for playing Hogwarts Legacy.

Most people in the main community are smart enough not to burn bridges. They'll quietly ignore her if she's criticizing the game, and just hope that she comes back at a later patch or expansion to praise it again. GCBTW is not going to villainize themselves by actively and publicly harassing her. They might want to, but they won't because most of them are aware of the consequences.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

Sadly that's the only "good" Hrothgar face...

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Lies.
You dare overlook Cute Runar Face

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I don't think anyone has actively turned on Zepla except the people in the FF14 community that went after her for playing Hogwarts Legacy.

Most people in the main community are smart enough not to burn bridges. They'll quietly ignore her if she's criticizing the game, and just hope that she comes back at a later patch or expansion to praise it again. GCBTW is not going to villainize themselves by actively and publicly harassing her. They might want to, but they won't because most of them are aware of the consequences.

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Oh, she has definitely taken a lot more criticism and ridicule since going on a break. The GCBTW absolutely will villainize itself. Back when the WoW streamers coming over, Naguura was harassed constantly for skipping the MSQ despite the whole reason of her trying FFXIV was to do the Savages blind with Max, which obviously meant she couldn't take the time needed to get through three expansions. She even said she wanted to do the MSQ but on a separate character because she's EU playing on NA. It got to a point she made a video asking people to stop bringing it up but ultimately quit partly due to how much the GCBTW kept bugging her.

To me this is just sorta people almost getting it but not quite, its not about Relics or their haphazard handling, its about how Endwalker has been incredibly lack luster, and there's nothing for them to really use to promote relics so they're forced to staple it to fucking Hildibrand of all things and call it a day. Relics have never been good content.

and Relics don't even make it onto my top 10 for complaints about Endwalker. I kinda wish people would be more direct about this game's problems.

Been saying XIV was Average at best, and that influx was merely a fad.......

WoW is the biggest MMO ever, of course those players will flock to XIV in droves if popular WoW streamers did.....

If WoW figure heads said "Hey....lets play Superman 64"

Superman 64 would have 100k viewers on twitch.....

I am glad people are seeing it, not to be that guy....but maybe they will improve the game & stop living off of that WoW boom. Saying that, it is XI appreciation week, so I will be over there chillin for the most part. I will be leveling this guy.....

https://zam.zamimg.com/ffxi/i/images...us-Seether.jpg

Best three headed doggie design in gaming.....

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I am taking this meme. It is mine now.

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...3/617/ae6.jpeg

This is the THIRD time in a row where they make the same mistake.

It's actually genious: If the influx in players is low in 7.0, queues will still fill up fast for low level content (esp. MSQ Roulette) because you buy the 6.x relics with poetics then :)

Finally: relics for sleeping through MSQ Roulette. The future will soon be here

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Originally Posted by TheNight

This is the THIRD time in a row where they make the same mistake.

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I kind if expected it and I'm not remotely surprised. I'm so tired of SE...

Sort of in line with this, I feel like the FFXIV team has been leaning to heavily into the "We want you to play other games" ethos. Yea, its great not having endless grinds just to get new gear, but I also don't want the opposite where getting new gear is braindead easy.

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Originally Posted by Bekuta

Sort of in line with this, I feel like the FFXIV team has been leaning to heavily into the "We want you to play other games" ethos. Yea, its great not having endless grinds just to get new gear, but I also don't want the opposite where getting new gear is braindead easy.

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It's less "we want you to play other games" and more "we want some if you to play other games except those who like to raid and those who have a house".