Auto-attack

^----------------- Blowing smoke.

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There is no extra strategy added to the game by manually button-smashing your basic attacks. Therefore, automating the process couldn't really hurt. Though I hope such a change would accompany various other modifications to mold the battle system into something more instantaneous.

Choosing your action and then waiting for it to happen is just... stupid. Unless you're actually casting a spell.

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QFT. Auto attack definitely would not hurt. I would love it as its a pain having to go back to a basic attack every time you do something. Having it be automated would be much better.

The auto-attack is final fantasy. I am disappointed that SE felt the need to change the Final Fantasy template that has been around since I started playing FF1. I feel SE has insulted and abandoned the FF purests in the interest in making the game playable by all ages and skill levels (lack there of) in the persuit of the all mighty dollar.

I'm not really biased towards either side...but how does the statement "Auto-attack is final fantasy" make any sense? Unless you were being sarcastic and that flew over my head...no FF game aside from XI and XII has had a normal auto attack.

Auto attack is a step backwards while the rest of the genre is moving forwards with more of an action style of combat. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by Xzen

Auto attack is a step backwards while the rest of the genre is moving forwards with more of an action style of combat. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

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Care to bless us with an example of the genre moving away from this? Also manually implementing commands has been around since pong so no it is NOT a step backwards. AA is newer and allows for more advances tactics at the higher end of the game, and by higher end I don't mean being rank 50 and farming mobs, I mean actual encounters, (which still don't exist...) Like I said before numerous times, just saying AA is a step in the past does not make it true. At the very least try to provide an argument for your ideas.

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Originally Posted by Linnear

Care to bless us with an example of the genre moving away from this? Also manually implementing commands has been around since pong so no it is NOT a step backwards. AA is newer and allows for more advances tactics at the higher end of the game, and by higher end I don't mean being rank 50 and farming mobs, I mean actual encounters, (which still don't exist...) Like I said before numerous times, just saying AA is a step in the past does not make it true. At the very least try to provide an argument for your ideas.

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There's a reason why offline games don't use this mechanic. It's simply boring. The only reason it is popular in MMOs is because it helps compensate for ping times. How much fun do you think the combat in Elder Scrolls would be if instead of having manual control your character just swung once per second automatically?

I wouldn't say AA is a step backwards, but it's definitely not an ideal solution. The sooner the genre moves towards more real-time combat, the better. SWTOR isn't using it, neither is GW2 (the auto-attack there is more like a toggle for any ability rather than what we're referring to here). DDO, which has one of the better combat systems in MMOs, doesn't use it even though the combat is still semi-turn-based. One of the more interesting titles coming out soon, The Secret World, doesn't use auto-attack.

The sooner this mechanic goes the way of the dodo, the better. Hence why I'm rather agitated they're rebuilding their combat system around it.

Alot of people who didnt like the menu/traditional turn based combat of other Final Fantasy titles, seemed to really like the FFXII system...so maybe thats why they are taking that route? Either way, i'm sure it wont be similar to XI or XII in the least bit, since no FF battle system is exactly alike and they seem to be trying to make it a fast auto attack system. They just need to implement other features in battle to make them stand apart from the rest.

Whats funny is that alot of people were actually clamoring for some sort of auto attack early on.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

There's a reason why offline games don't use this mechanic. It's simply boring. The only reason it is popular in MMOs is because it helps compensate for ping times. How much fun do you think the combat in Elder Scrolls would be if instead of having manual control your character just swung once per second automatically?

I wouldn't say AA is a step backwards, but it's definitely not an ideal solution. The sooner the genre moves towards more real-time combat, the better. SWTOR isn't using it, neither is GW2 (the auto-attack there is more like a toggle for any ability rather than what we're referring to here). DDO, which has one of the better combat systems in MMOs, doesn't use it even though the combat is still semi-turn-based. One of the more interesting titles coming out soon, The Secret World, doesn't use auto-attack.

The sooner this mechanic goes the way of the dodo, the better. Hence why I'm rather agitated they're rebuilding their combat system around it.

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Exactly. It's just sad that they think spamming actions was a necessary evil of the original system. It isn't. Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, TERA, Blade & Soul, DCUO, basically every next-gen MMO has active combat. If FFXIV thinks it can compete with auto-attack... well they're right. They can always compete in the special olypmics.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Exactly. It's just sad that they think spamming actions was a necessary evil of the original system. It isn't. Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, TERA, Blade & Soul, DCUO, basically every next-gen MMO has active combat. If FFXIV thinks it can compete with auto-attack... well they're right. They can always compete in the special olypmics.

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Thats why I think combat like we see in the FFXIII Versus trailers would be the new way to do combat in MMOs today. Although I don't know if their current game engine could be adapted to make combat like that in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Xzen

Thats why I think combat like we see in the FFXIII Versus trailers would be the new way to do combat in MMOs today. Although I don't know if their current game engine could be adapted to make combat like that in FFXIV.

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Doesn't XIV share the same engine with XIII and Versus?

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Originally Posted by Naqaj

Doesn't XIV share the same engine with XIII and Versus?

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I would say yes, in terms of the ATB gauge is now the Stamina bar, but you can't really queue commands outside of the cumbersome battle regimens. In other words you can't do:

Spirit Dart > Fire II > Sleep

all against the same mob. Honestly that wouldn't be too bad to implement FFXIII's auto-attack system where you hit 'auto' and commands are automatically placed onto Stamina bar (that a mob is vulnerable to), stacked.

well, i was afraid this would happen when i kind of lost interest with the skill change decision,

Auto Attack was a bad idea, sure it felt spammy when you were level 1-16 or so, but once you hit 20 and got access to additional class tp builders, and more skills, the system started to come together.

The problem with most people, especially new people, is they think of tp building skills as just to get to your weaponskill skills, the tp builders change your whole way of playing, for pug, they have heavy strike, flurry and lightstrike, to play well you mix up all of these to adapt to the situation. you do light for defense and evasion, mix in heavy for dmg, or you can choose to go with flurry. later on you get the tp building one that allows you to be more defensive while still being a threat with tp skills, flurry and heavy for high dps, light and whatever the tp enhanced one was, for tanking, or keeping your utility in mind, also, spam was not condusive to countering, or watching for special conditions. Add to that several higher end mobs made spamming not the best way, some mobs you didnt want to attack at certain times, if you need to lower your hate you simply stop, on gladiator classes, managing your stamina and waiting to attack was huge. In truth when you learned the battle system it was really great, one of the better battle systems in mmo's right now.

The biggest problem was communication mid battle.

But now its going to be totally gone, which is sad because in all honesty the main problems with this game were not in the battle system, i hope they will make something good, but going by thier sp fix, it will probably be some sort of patch to try to make it like an older system, which kind of sucked, and doesnt fit with the mechanics of the rest of the game. Now its really just wait and see, because its kind of pointless to even discuss AA when we have no idea what the new battle system will be like or the rules it will follow.

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Originally Posted by Boricua

I would say yes, in terms of the ATB gauge is now the Stamina bar, but you can't really queue commands outside of the cumbersome battle regimens. In other words you can't do:

Spirit Dart > Fire II > Sleep

all against the same mob. Honestly that wouldn't be too bad to implement FFXIII's auto-attack system where you hit 'auto' and commands are automatically placed onto Stamina bar (that a mob is vulnerable to), stacked.

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That's not the engine, that would be the combat interface. I don't think that's what XZen meant, he was talking about the fast and kinetic combat in Versus, in contrast to the stationary fights in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Naqaj

the stationary fights in XIV

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There was no controllable player movement during the battles in XIII, I don't grasp your distinction between engine & combat interface.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Auto attack sucks... end of story

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End of story?? your weak... at least have something to expand on dont slander auto attack for no reason .. you know what i bet you havent even played any other MMOs before or even FFXI for that matter.. just go play something else

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Originally Posted by Boricua

There was no controllable player movement during the battles in XIII, I don't grasp your distinction between engine & combat interface.

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Xzen was talking about the game engine of XIII Versus. Some gameplay videos on youtube show it has a very dynamic, action-heavy combat. As XIV uses the same game engine, the same kind of combat should be technically possible in XIV.
ATB gauge, Stamina bar and stacking commands are elements of the combat interface, not of the game engine itself.

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Originally Posted by Naqaj

Xzen was talking about the game engine of XIII Versus. Some gameplay videos on youtube show it has a very dynamic, action-heavy combat. As XIV uses the same game engine, the same kind of combat should be technically possible in XIV.
ATB gauge, Stamina bar and stacking commands are elements of the combat interface, not of the game engine itself.

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If it is the same game engine then the combat we see in Versus is doable but it would require a lot of work from the devs. But in the end I think it really would pay off and we would truly have some amazing and fun combat in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Maat

End of story?? your weak... at least have something to expand on dont slander auto attack for no reason .. you know what i bet you havent even played any other MMOs before or even FFXI for that matter.. just go play something else

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Everquest, Everquest 2, Anarchy online, RF online (AA toggled), Guild Wars, WoW, Various F2P's, FFXI, FFXIV.

FFXIV started without AA, it can go on without AA.

What rank are you.. 10 max?

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Originally Posted by Naqaj

That's not the engine, that would be the combat interface. I don't think that's what XZen meant, he was talking about the fast and kinetic combat in Versus, in contrast to the stationary fights in XIV.

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Since when are fights in FFXIV stationary? Even if I'm playing healer, I'm moving around, at least some. If you're melee, you'll probably be moving constantly.

Am I really all these threads right? People think the combat is boring because they're standing in one spot and spamming their R1 attack??

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Since when are fights in FFXIV stationary? Even if I'm playing healer, I'm moving around, at least some. If you're melee, you'll probably be moving constantly.

Am I really all these threads right? People think the combat is boring because they're standing in one spot and spamming their R1 attack??

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Right now there are only a few encounters that actually require you to be aware of your positioning. Also the issue is more about SE going from our bland combat that we have now to possibly even blander combat ala Auto Attack or giving us something amazing like the "kinetic combat" seen in FFXIII Versus which shows that this game engine is clearly capable of achieving.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Since when are fights in FFXIV stationary? Even if I'm playing healer, I'm moving around, at least some. If you're melee, you'll probably be moving constantly.

Am I really all these threads right? People think the combat is boring because they're standing in one spot and spamming their R1 attack??

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Every action you take freezes you in place, be it a spell cast, your basic attack, or just switching combat mode. Compared to the combat in that video in question, that is very static. We were just talking about how the game engine is capable of a much more dynamic combat design. A bit of "what if" talk. No need to get so up in arms about it.

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Originally Posted by Naqaj

Every action you take freezes you in place, be it a spell cast, your basic attack, or just switching combat mode. Compared to the combat in that video in question, that is very static. We were just talking about how the game engine is capable of a much more dynamic combat design. A bit of "what if" talk. No need to get so up in arms about it.

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Auto attack isn't the answer to that. what if you're stuck in place while auto attacking? Something to suggest about attacks and skills (there are suggestions for a few) would be to just remove the "stop" when using a skill or readying your weapon. Just because they add AA doesn't mean we wont still be stopping to cast a spell, draw our weapons, or use a skill. Thats something that needs changing separately

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Originally Posted by Reika

Auto attack isn't the answer to that. what if you're stuck in place while auto attacking? Something to suggest about attacks and skills (there are suggestions for a few) would be to just remove the "stop" when using a skill or readying your weapon. Just because they add AA doesn't mean we wont still be stopping to cast a spell, draw our weapons, or use a skill. Thats something that needs changing separately

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Just sos you know I think Naqaj and me agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Xzen

Right now there are only a few encounters that actually require you to be aware of your positioning. Also the issue is more about SE going from our bland combat that we have now to possibly even blander combat ala Auto Attack or giving us something amazing like the "kinetic combat" seen in FFXIII Versus which shows that this game engine is clearly capable of achieving.

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It's not really the game engine that determines that kind of combat, it's the network code. Given that FFXIV has global servers, as opposed to regional ones, latency would be a big obstacle to fully active combat.

Having said that... both European and NA players played Darkfall on one global server and found it playable, despite it having active combat the likes of TERA. So perhaps it is feasible for even FFXIV to implement something of that kind.

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

*cough*Fanboy, Get over it its a good change to a failed, flaw, battle system.

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I fail to see how recommending better combat over combat thats just plain not fun by any gamers standards makes them a fanboy. The current combat sucks and an Auto Attack would suck even more. To me it sounds like you want it to be like FFXI? Who's the Fanboy now. You're the one that seems to be swallowing anything SE and Yoshi-P is willing to feed you.

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Originally Posted by Xzen

I fail to see how recommending better combat over combat thats just plain not fun by any gamers standards makes them a fanboy. The current combat sucks and an Auto Attack would suck even more. To me it sounds like you want it to be like FFXI? Who's the Fanboy now. You're the one that seems to be swallowing anything SE and Yoshi-P is willing to feed you.

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And again i say build a bridge and you know the rest.
At this point this change is needed like its been said how they implament it is whats important, i'm willing to bet they wont just completely copy XI's battle system just because they said Auto-attack.
So with that understanding i think taking some action to improve is better then taking none at all, no?

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

And again i say build a bridge and you know the rest.
At this point this change is needed like its been said how they implament it is whats important, i'm willing to bet they wont just completely copy XI's battle system just because they said Auto-attack.
So with that understanding i think taking some action to improve is better then taking none at all, no?

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I agree with that for the most part however I don't think Auto Attack adds anything. If anything the changes they make will be better in spite of the fact that they added it. If they actually fix all the other problems with combat it would be better but still boring when compared to other games in general. I simply don't think there is any reason for MMOs to have the same boring combat mechanics we have seen for the last 10 years in MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

You have got to be the BIGGEST supporter of not changing this game at all.

Amazing do you not know that this game is slowly dying, well about as slow a death as jumping out of a plane smack into concrete that is, read alot of your post wow... are you serious with all this?

I am starting to think you are making a big 695 post joke, or you really hate the game and want to see it stay the same so ppl wont play and they shut it down.

Were you on the original developement team?

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You never played the game yet.... If you had, you'd notice other problems with combat, and that the lack of Auto attack is not one of them. I'm for necessarily change, this is not one of them and is a waste of time.

How many bug's have you reported? Zero. How much feedback for actual improvements have you submitted? Zero. All the bugs i reported prior to last patch have been fixed. YOU are not helping anything by Flaming others who know how to play and by begging for a stupid AA.

We got Ninty Nine problems and AA aint one.

I personally think that the game may be a little bit less engaged (not a huge amount but auto attack takes away something that can keep the player focused and engaged) I DO think it could be a great improvement though if they add some strategy to it.

My thought is that if they were to add stances to the battle system it would be a great improvement. Being able to switch stances depending on the situation would be a great addition to the strategy to the combat.

Tank goes down, then your whole party can go to a defensive stance until someone revives him. Switch from weak fast attacks on small low defense or numerous enemies to slow heavy attacks for armored enemies. Or if you needed a fast healing spell you could switch from a slow strong casting to a fast weak spell casting stance on the go.

I would love to see this added to the game as it would finally add something new to the overused Tank, Healer, Damage Dealer strategy that is always used in MMOs

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

WOW you just made a crazy suggestion that you know me. =/ so you know that i have never reported a bug because you live here with me?
I know how to play this game, its not hard at all the challenge comes in not turning it off, after you play the routine of craft craft leve leve rinse repeat.
Dont get mad XD I only ask because i see you attacking others if i flame usually its in anothers defense from ppl telling them not to give there opinion if its not in agreement with the yay-xiv players
but its all good i still luv you!

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So you coming at me saying I am against change does not conclude to you thinking you know me? That is hypocritical.... I would like you to tell me who I attacked please, as far as I see it, you attacked me, because I am against auto attack, and said it wouldn't end the having to stop to use abilities problem. And honestly, you got to R21 at highest. you haven't been to any place you can comment on besides auto attack. you cant even comment on the lack of content yet. You probably havent even gotten multi-shot from the archer guild yet. So just turn your flamethrower off, and go play a little more and contemplate what is in front of you already k?

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Originally Posted by Grit

There is no extra strategy added to the game by manually button-smashing your basic attacks. Therefore, automating the process couldn't really hurt. Though I hope such a change would accompany various other modifications to mold the battle system into something more instantaneous.

Choosing your action and then waiting for it to happen is just... stupid. Unless you're actually casting a spell.

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I kind of agree with these. Ok it is not a major issue and there are several things that must be changed/fixed, but smashing your basic attack on a gamepad is a pain... At least for me... I'm not gonna stop using gamepad if an auto attack is not implemented, but such an option would actually help a little.

As I stated is a minor issue but still an issue.

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Originally Posted by Dragonhand

I kind of agree with these. Ok it is not a major issue and there are several things that must be changed/fixed, but smashing your basic attack on a gamepad is a pain... At least for me... I'm not gonna stop using gamepad if an auto attack is not implemented, but such an option would actually help a little.

As I stated is a minor issue but still an issue.

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Have you ever played other games on a console? Or any action rpgs? Monster Hunter, MGS, Devil May Cry, FFVII Dirge of Cerberus, FFVII Crisis Core, Shinobi, God of War, Deus Ex? Just some games off the top of my head that actually had fun combat. Something that MMOs until just recently never had. It could be done here. But not with Auto Attack. I'm not saying it needs to be "exactly like" any of the games I listed but every one of those games has combat that's actually fun even more so when you put them side by side with almost every MMO released in the last 10 years.

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

You can experience the battle system at rnk1/lvl1 as well as the tired leve system and the unbalanced craft to everything else gameplay, you do not have to be rank 50x6 to see what this game is about because at 50 you are still doing the same wash rinse repeat routine.

1.
"No matter what the topic the ones with the collars on will bark like hell if anything is said about the poor state of this game.

Its funny to me so i poke at them, they get pissed, hilarious.

The best one is "you have no right if you dont have rnk 50 in all jobs"
Lmfao, really in 20 mins you can see that taking a job to 50 in this game is grueling, not because u have to grind, grinding is fine in my book if its fun with a class you love and friends to do it with, but because the fighting and classes in this game are made of all kinds of last dude in 100 man gbng fail,
I wont waste time lvling these hybrid classes right now, in hopes that the system's will be fixed soon and classes worth playing with a fun battle system will be added."

2.
"Arogance and elitism in a video game is so so so sad for as pathetic as thoes ppl call others, they are the most pathetic of all for considering themselves more important and more worthy to voice an opinion then everyone else.

LMFAO, REALLY? You have lvl/rnk 1000 in a game makes you feel special, and validates you as a human and gives you merit to insult thoes puny ppl w/o high lvl jobs in a game?

So you have lvl 10,000 killzorezilla mnk, you can look down on ppl from your basement room atop the golden mountains as you drink your mountain dew and devour your cheesy poofs you scoof at the weeklings who have to turn off the game and go to work! HAHA.
O.o; really?

Dude i just refinanced my home loan and got a great deal i feel great about stuff like that! but yeah you win XD

PS: moderator i did not name anyone so do not erase my post.... I have seen ppl just blatently attack others and it was left alone... I have aimed at no one."

I posted these earlier to general "video game elitist's" that tell others they have no right to an opinion of a game they payed money for, and i work for my dough mommy didnt buy it for me.
This is the case again i guess. 701!

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Your reasonings are that of a forum troll... /ignored

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Originally Posted by Xzen

Have you ever played other games on a console? Or any action rpgs? Monster Hunter, MGS, Devil May Cry, FFVII Dirge of Cerberus, FFVII Crisis Core, Shinobi, God of War, Deus Ex? Just some games off the top of my head that actually had fun combat. Something that MMOs until just recently never had. It could be done here. But not with Auto Attack. I'm not saying it needs to be "exactly like" any of the games I listed but every one of those games has combat that's actually fun even more so when you put them side by side with almost every MMO released in the last 10 years.

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Played all at the exception of crisis and shinobi (don't know these one). Your point was? I missed it lol :P

Basic attacks:
Pugilist: Heavy Strike, Light Strike, Pummel, Flurry
Gladiator: Light Slash, Heavy Slash, Light stab, Heavy Stab
Thaumaturge: Phantom bolt, Silhouette, Shadowfall
Marauder: Light Swing, Heavy Swing, Full Swing, Broad Swing

Just to name a few... what will happen to these when auto attack is implemented?

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Originally Posted by Dragonhand

Played all at the exception of crisis and shinobi (don't know these one). Your point was? I missed it lol :P

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The point is that MMO combat that we have now and have had is bad. Why ask for McDonalds when you can ask for and have New York Strip? I wasn't attacking you I was just trying to establish a basis for comparison.

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Originally Posted by Xzen

The point is that MMO combat that we have now and have had is bad. Why ask for McDonalds when you can ask for and have New York Strip? I wasn't attacking you I was just trying to establish a basis for comparison.

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Herm... sry I still don't get the point, what does any of that has to do with the auto attack or my opinion about it? :S

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Originally Posted by Dragonhand

Herm... sry I still don't get the point, what does any of that has to do with the auto attack or my opinion about it? :S

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Auto Attack is bland. Not fun. So why ask for it when you could ask for combat that is?

Ah. sry my bad. Well it is kind of boring if you only auto attack, most of us are actually waiting for a combat improvement that makes auto attack unworthy unless you feel to lazy to using multiple skills in combat, and in those situations an auto attack would fit better then spaming x,x x,x x,x x,x x,x x,x x,x. Using a keyboard it is not such an issue but on controller I find it a bit boring