Stop complaining. You wanted this.

I agree with the OP 110%

The RNG code was created by a person, and they inputted 0 as one of the possible choices for output. I have coded in Python and Mathematica before, and if you import random, and then you list the parameters, e.g. list=1,2,3,4,5... It is pretty easy to see, that when they listed their parameters for the housing lottery system, they included 0 (zero) in the list of possible choices that could be rolled. If they did in fact did put zero into their list, as in: listhousing or list1 (whatever you want to call it) = 0,1,2,3,4,5..., when as stated earlier, it should have been list1=1,2,3,4,5...

If what I stated is correct, then in all fairness, they should roll back EVERYONE's bids, because if 0 (zero) was counted as a possible RNG choice, then EVERY roll is invalidated and needs to be done again. I know it sucks for some people, but in all fairness, if zero (0) was included, then redoing it is the most fair solution.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

I'm talking about the original system, which may well predate you if you think it was bot-laden.

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The original system only lasted 9 months after the introduction of housing and was at a time when the active player base was much smaller.

It would never work with the size of the current player base. Whether some players would resort to RMT to get the gil needed to purchase would be a tiny blip among the logistical problems.

SE needs to confront the core problem of supply. They can twist the system any way they like and there will always be problems that leave players unhappy unless the supply meets demand.

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Originally Posted by S0lara

If what I stated is correct, then in all fairness, they should roll back EVERYONE's bids, because if 0 (zero) was counted as a possible RNG choice, then EVERY roll is invalidated and needs to be done again. I know it sucks for some people, but in all fairness, if zero (0) was included, then redoing it is the most fair solution.

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It could also be a "round(rand(0,numplayers))" in the code. In which case the last player only gets a 50% chance of winning, and the other half of his getting the 0 as result.

Without knowing the code, you cant tell anything. Its very likely something subtle being overlooked, that in tests did show it worked

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Considering the RMT housing trade already exists and is inherently less risky to pull off, I gotta say, that claim seems rather suspect.

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google it.

People did not want this. People just want their house, and rightfully so.
Developers need to address plot scarcity, instead of refining or changing the method of aquiring plots. By the end of the day, no matter the underlying system, only X amount of people per ward will be happy and privileged. Everyone else will stay empty handed and frustrated.

Developers should instead focus on providing more houses for a continulously increasing playerbase.

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Originally Posted by S0lara

The RNG code was created by a person, and they inputted 0 as one of the possible choices for output. I have coded in Python and Mathematica before, and if you import random, and then you list the parameters, e.g. list=1,2,3,4,5... It is pretty easy to see, that when they listed their parameters for the housing lottery system, they included 0 (zero) in the list of possible choices that could be rolled. If they did in fact did put zero into their list, as in: listhousing or list1 (whatever you want to call it) = 0,1,2,3,4,5..., when as stated earlier, it should have been list1=1,2,3,4,5...

If what I stated is correct, then in all fairness, they should roll back EVERYONE's bids, because if 0 (zero) was counted as a possible RNG choice, then EVERY roll is invalidated and needs to be done again. I know it sucks for some people, but in all fairness, if zero (0) was included, then redoing it is the most fair solution.

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Again, No. Making everyone, even those not affected with a 0 Winner should not be subject to a roll back. You have to also consider the impact THAT would have on players/free companies that actually won and already invested time and gil into their new plot. AGAIN, it is unfortunate this happened, but not everyone should be punished because of it.

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Originally Posted by Valodion

Again, No. Making everyone, even those not affected with a 0 Winner should not be subject to a roll back. You have to also consider the impact THAT would have on players/free companies that actually won and already invested time and gil into their new plot. AGAIN, it is unfortunate this happened, but not everyone should be punished because of it.

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"If I can't win neither can you"

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Originally Posted by S0lara

If what I stated is correct, then in all fairness, they should roll back EVERYONE's bids, because if 0 (zero) was counted as a possible RNG choice, then EVERY roll is invalidated and needs to be done again. I know it sucks for some people, but in all fairness, if zero (0) was included, then redoing it is the most fair solution.

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What you're asking for is a total server rollback. They can't just roll back the lotto because people have already moved in and started building/decorating. Which means some have likely bought furnishings from vendors and the MB. Which means refunding that gil. Which means reversing those transactions. The only way to accomplish that is to roll back the servers to prior to the lotto happening.

You're asking for people who didn't participate in or care about housing to lose days of progress. Either that or you're asking for the people who won and started the process of enjoying their plots to lose out on millions of gil when they didn't do anything wrong either.

In short, a total rollback is the least fair solution.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

What you're asking for is a total server rollback. They can't just roll back the lotto because people have already moved in and started building/decorating. Which means some have likely bought furnishings from vendors and the MB. Which means refunding that gil. Which means reversing those transactions. The only way to accomplish that is to roll back the servers to prior to the lotto happening.

You're asking for people who didn't participate in or care about housing to lose days of progress. Either that or you're asking for the people who won and started the process of enjoying their plots to lose out on millions of gil when they didn't do anything wrong either.

In short, a total rollback is the least fair solution.

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Only thing I can see working is increase the total amount of wards to 30. 50/50 split down the middle for FC and personal. SE gets what they want and we.... well maybe the odds be in everyone's favor.

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Originally Posted by Valodion

Again, No. Making everyone, even those not affected with a 0 Winner should not be subject to a roll back. You have to also consider the impact THAT would have on players/free companies that actually won and already invested time and gil into their new plot. AGAIN, it is unfortunate this happened, but not everyone should be punished because of it.

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Not only that end of the new house owners. See the money they spent tranferred, used for other stuff already. It's such a complex network, that not only the housing servers need to be restarted.

Everything has to be reset to the last backup before the roll was finished. All progress lost without exception, as nothing happened.
Now that outburst of rage is something I really don't want to see...

The best they could do, is deep check their logs, give the solo-participants their plots, and for the others with mutliple entries, just reroll with the original inserts automatically - instantly, or with next cycle.

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Originally Posted by Xelanar

People did not want this.

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The double-digit (if not triple at this point) number of threads all saying "A lottery would be better than placard spamming" stand against your claim. While yes, SE may need to prioritize fixing the supply rather than the band-aid approach, they've also said they want the neighborhood style. To that end, we're kind of stuck with the neighborhoods.

That isn't a bad thing in of itself, but there's only so many "neighborhoods" you can make before something snaps.

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Originally Posted by Rathmir

Not only that end of the new house owners. See the money they spent tranferred, used for other stuff already. It's such a complex network, that not only the housing servers need to be restarted.

Everything has to be reset to the last backup before the roll was finished.

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Absolutely.

Roll back is utterly impossible now. Too much has changed across the entire game, and that grows each day more. Raid progression, marketboard sales, PvP ranking, people's glam purchases, old house gardens, people's decorating, new account levelling, MSQ progression, on-and-on-and-on, so much change.

It was quite possible at the time, but SE's project managers decided to schedule this so lottery happened at 11pm in Japan, and over easter for the rest of the world (skeleton support staffing), there simply wasn't adequate worldwide monitoring to catch it fast enough.

Rollback is always part of the Project Management process. Good deployment plans always have a section on what to do in case of a major problem. If there is no possibility of rollback in the deployment plan, then it usually (or should) need sign off by the board itself. Especially if it's a mission critical system.

Ignoring all the other parts of this that broke and looking just at project management; The proper solution was not to schedule release of a brand new, untested system over Easter to ensure full support coverage. All hands should have been on deck to monitor and verify the very minute it executed. Upper management should have been on-call, and bought into the loop to make the decision to roll back inside minutes.

But none of this happened, so there can't be a rollback, it's just impossible now.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

The double-digit (if not triple at this point) number of threads all saying "A lottery would be better than placard spamming" stand against your claim. While yes, SE may need to prioritize fixing the supply rather than the band-aid approach, they've also said they want the neighborhood style. To that end, we're kind of stuck with the neighborhoods.

That isn't a bad thing in of itself, but there's only so many "neighborhoods" you can make before something snaps.

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Might be fair to say that while many were asking for the lottery, they weren't asking for it as it turned out.

I had even pointed out in many of those threads that lotteries don't always have winners and would they be happy when plots go empty for weeks because no one was winning them. And now that's what has happened - they programmed the system (even if unintentionally) so there could be no winner.

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Originally Posted by Rathmir

Not only that end of the new house owners. See the money they spent tranferred, used for other stuff already. It's such a complex network, that not only the housing servers need to be restarted.

Everything has to be reset to the last backup before the roll was finished. All progress lost without exception, as nothing happened.
Now that outburst of rage is something I really don't want to see...

The best they could do, is deep check their logs, give the solo-participants their plots, and for the others with mutliple entries, just reroll with the original inserts automatically - instantly, or with next cycle.

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I am tired of seeing this a complete roleback of the Firnament as an option. This is such a bad idea. If you think the salt is bad now, then wait until then. Kicking people in the teeth because they got a house, just to give it to someone else would be tacky.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I am tired of seeing this a complete roleback of the Firnament as an option. This is such a bad idea. If you think the salt is bad now, then wait until then. Kicking people in the teeth because they got a house, just to give it to someone else would be tacky.

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Well folks don't exactly care about others and just want their own stuff. Screw those that got a house

What we want is accessible fucking housing lmao. Nobody asked for limited housing. And this issue will never end as long as housing is limited.

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Originally Posted by KikiTia

Nobody asked for limited housing. And this issue will never end as long as housing is limited.

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It also gets worse when you take into account they boom of the player-base at the launch of EW. "Now, even people who have not felt the burn of homelessness and pining for a dream home you can't have get a chance to own a home, but we still have a limited supply" What about the player-base who have been hoping for years who now have to keep dreaming?

Ah yes the original system, that back then houses were per character not per account, had also no placard clicking or lottery. So a madlad with 8 characters who each had an FC could buy 8 plots as long as they had the gil for it, and if they were a 1.0 player their subscription fee was only $9.99 instead of $14.99. And if they had say 4 accounts that were all 1.0 legacys, they would only pay $39.96 and could own a little over half an entire ward including its subdivsion.

This fabled era that apparently people want to go back to.

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Originally Posted by Sythex

It also gets worse when you take into account they boom of the player-base at the launch of EW. "Now, even people who have not felt the burn of homelessness and pining for a dream home you can't have get a chance to own a home, but we still have a limited supply" What about the player-base who have been hoping for years who now have to keep dreaming?

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Imagine all the new players joining now who come to learn that because they didn't have several million gil and finish 2.0 in the 5 day period after launch that they now have to trust in the grace of God to get a house. For something so casual and laid back as an ingame house.

I don't mean to attack you or anything, so if this comes off as mean I am very sorry. But isn't that a bit unfair to all the people who can play more? I can't play everyday but I would rather those who can play more than I can to not be limited by something that I can't do. Sure the clicking system was bad but this one is just as bad for the majority of other players. We can't hold people back just so we can get a chance. Especially not if that chance becomes so miniscule. I am not sure if you are simply saying you don't want the clicking system back, which is valid and 100% the correct idea. But if you are saying the lottery system is good then I am sorry but I just can't agree with that. Sorry if I sound rude.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Absolutely.

Roll back is utterly impossible now. Too much has changed across the entire game, and that grows each day more. Raid progression, marketboard sales, PvP ranking, people's glam purchases, old house gardens, people's decorating, new account levelling, MSQ progression, on-and-on-and-on, so much change.

It was quite possible at the time, but SE's project managers decided to schedule this so lottery happened at 11pm in Japan, and over easter for the rest of the world (skeleton support staffing), there simply wasn't adequate worldwide monitoring to catch it fast enough.

Rollback is always part of the Project Management process. Good deployment plans always have a section on what to do in case of a major problem. If there is no possibility of rollback in the deployment plan, then it usually (or should) need sign off by the board itself. Especially if it's a mission critical system.

Ignoring all the other parts of this that broke and looking just at project management; The proper solution was not to schedule release of a brand new, untested system over Easter to ensure full support coverage. All hands should have been on deck to monitor and verify the very minute it executed. Upper management should have been on-call, and bought into the loop to make the decision to roll back inside minutes.

But none of this happened, so there can't be a rollback, it's just impossible now.

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This. Rollback isn't going to happened. Not to mention all the players that bypassed the timer got swept under the rug once everyone demanded a rollback. They are going to glorify Island Sanctuaries in hopes you will take it as instanced housing. Watch. Regardless of what others will believe it is going down like this.

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Thread: Stop complaining. You wanted this.

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No I didn't. But since it's here, I'm going to vocalize what I don't like about it and how I think it could be better. For example: better instanced housing starting with upgrading apartments to have more size options and amenities to counter the lack of an exterior.

Technically, only Personal Houses were "everyone has the same odds".

For Free Companies, it is nothing like that.

Large Free Companies with a lot of wealth can stack the odds in their favor with the lottery system as it is.
It's painfully easy for a large free company to raise millions of gil. And they can have dozens of bids on a Small FC plot, stacking the odds in their favor.

While it's not as common, the same can be done for Medium or Large plots as well.

I should know. I fixed up a spreadsheet and tracked the Large plots twice this past week. First on Wednesday, and then after marking off all those with 7+ bids, I went back on Friday.

I identified the remaining plots with only 1-bid on each. I found the plot among those with the least bids across all wards.
I found the ward with the least overall bids with that plot.

I bid on that plot 4 times and nobody else bid after me. My four 47.5 million gil bids vs the single bid that was placed down first.

And I won it. Was it fair? Not really. The odds were 80% in my favor because it was 4-to-1.

People simply don't realize that supply isn't all that easy.

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Originally Posted by Valfreyja

Technically, only Personal Houses were "everyone has the same odds".

For Free Companies, it is nothing like that.

Large Free Companies with a lot of wealth can stack the odds in their favor with the lottery system as it is.
It's painfully easy for a large free company to raise millions of gil. And they can have dozens of bids on a Small FC plot, stacking the odds in their favor.

While it's not as common, the same can be done for Medium or Large plots as well.

I should know. I fixed up a spreadsheet and tracked the Large plots twice this past week. First on Wednesday, and then after marking off all those with 7+ bids, I went back on Friday.

I identified the remaining plots with only 1-bid on each. I found the plot among those with the least bids across all wards.
I found the ward with the least overall bids with that plot.

I bid on that plot 4 times and nobody else bid after me. My four 47.5 million gil bids vs the single bid that was placed down first.

And I won it. Was it fair? Not really. The odds were 80% in my favor because it was 4-to-1.

People simply don't realize that supply isn't all that easy.

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Wait, you could actually bid multiple times for the same house?

Edit: Nvm you and your fc did it, I get it now, my bad.

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Originally Posted by Whalaqee

Ah yes the original system, that back then houses were per character not per account, had also no placard clicking or lottery. So a madlad with 8 characters who each had an FC could buy 8 plots as long as they had the gil for it, and if they were a 1.0 player their subscription fee was only $9.99 instead of $14.99. And if they had say 4 accounts that were all 1.0 legacys, they would only pay $39.96 and could own a little over half an entire ward including its subdivsion.

This fabled era that apparently people want to go back to.

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If SE could keep the number of wards up to date with the overall demand, certainly.

Or they could work on instanced housing so players could own multiple houses without impacting the ability of other players to likewise get multiple houses. As it stands now, it can only be done by those who abuse shell FCs.

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Originally Posted by KikiTia

Imagine all the new players joining now who come to learn that because they didn't have several million gil and finish 2.0 in the 5 day period after launch that they now have to trust in the grace of God to get a house. For something so casual and laid back as an ingame house.

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Yet they can get an apartment (even on Balmung now, Empyreum has solved that problem for the near future), which is generally the type of entry level housing a game provides for new players. It's cheaper, has most of the basic functions a house has - and isn't subject to demolition.

Players can be their own worst enemies by trying to jump directly into the end goal instead of working their way toward it. That's not to say I like how SE has designed the housing system here but anyone thinking they should be immediately entitled to a mansion needs a reality check.

https://i.imgur.com/zRorML1.png

you drank 2 much koolaid

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Originally Posted by Grizzy

I don't mean to attack you or anything, so if this comes off as mean I am very sorry. But isn't that a bit unfair to all the people who can play more? I can't play everyday but I would rather those who can play more than I can to not be limited by something that I can't do. Sure the clicking system was bad but this one is just as bad for the majority of other players. We can't hold people back just so we can get a chance. Especially not if that chance becomes so miniscule. I am not sure if you are simply saying you don't want the clicking system back, which is valid and 100% the correct idea. But if you are saying the lottery system is good then I am sorry but I just can't agree with that. Sorry if I sound rude.

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Only way anyone wins is 30 wards with a 50/50 spilt between personal and FC also get rid of the lottery system. It is horrible.

"Stop complaining, you wanted this" sounds like something at the start of Special Victims Unit.
Why are there so many sociopaths involved in this housing forum?

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Originally Posted by Wolfenrir

Wait, you could actually bid multiple times for the same house?

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Yes, for FCs.

Multiple FC members can bid on the same and also different houses. If the FC won several houses, they have to decide for one. Therefore, chances for bigger FCs are much more higher.

True, but a bigger FC needs to raise the 50 million for every entry, promote people high enough to have permission to buy the house, have members that have been part of it long enough, and most importantly actually TRUST somebody with 50 million.

Quite a few people would just take the 50 million and bid on a mansion themselves and leave the FC.

That's not as likely to happen with a small FC where you actually get to know everybody, and can guilt trip them personally if they stray.

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Originally Posted by Masenko

"Stop complaining, you wanted this" sounds like something at the start of Special Victims Unit.
Why are there so many sociopaths involved in this housing forum?

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People will always have something to complain about as they always have. Sorry to put it in your face that this system sucks. Truth is right in front of people and not one person has said it. Ask your self this, Why didn't we have a 50/50 split? Why does this decision seem so out of touch with the community? Why are people complaining about a system they wanted?

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Originally Posted by SanadaX

Why are people complaining about a system they wanted?

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Have you seen like... i don´t know... 10 or 20 million poeple here voting for this dumb system? I guess not.

And this forum is full of poeple who can´t think a step further in any direction. Each new patch makes the game worse and worse. Bandaids around every corner thanks to stupid complaints and ideas for the glory of QoL and "fairness".
I bought 10 houses within my whole playtime, 7 through button-spam and 3 upgrades. The chances have been like 10-33% for the small ones, the bigger have been nothing but luck to lookout at the right moment. Guess how it´ll look now? 1% or less once the most houses are gone and all greed every 8 days for that last one.

The system sucks and whoever wanted that lottery sucks too, as much as SE sucks in their decision-making across the board. Nothing got fixed but a night-long button spam. Have fun gambling against the rest of the server once they fixed their 6.1 mess. The odds are against you.

In complete sincerity, I wanted this change and am glad we got it. Even though it's far from perfect, I believe it's the best of a host of bad options.

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Originally Posted by SanadaX

Why are people complaining about a system they wanted?

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For some, it's because it's not turning out to be the magic wand they imagined it would be.

For others, it's because they never asked for it in the first place and now they're stuck with it. The community is not a hive mind.

I actually consider this to be the laziest fix that would have made anyone at all happy.
It's a terrible fix. Nothing short of making the full housing experience (minus being in a fully public, always-on zone) available to anyone who wants it is acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Masenko

I actually consider this to be the laziest fix that would have made anyone at all happy.
It's a terrible fix. Nothing short of making the full housing experience (minus being in a fully public, always-on zone) available to anyone who wants it is acceptable.

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Does it address the glaring scarcity issues that incentivize RMT? Oh hell no. It does, however, address some of the shortcomings of the existing system. It's (hopefully) a stopgap.

It sorta put a stop to the casual RMT participants. Sadly it was a gimme for the hardcore element. Maybe, maybe, they'll give instanced housing some more serious consideration if they're not already working on it.

I'm laughing each time this topic bumps back to the top lol. I agree with the OP. Wholeheartedly!

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

For some, it's because it's not turning out to be the magic wand they imagined it would be.

For others, it's because they never asked for it in the first place and now they're stuck with it. The community is not a hive mind.

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The Vocal majority wanted a lottery and we got it. Now people want a whole new system it hasn't even been a month.

I spent many hours fighting against bots clicking placards .... one lottery and I got a house. Guess I'm just really lucky, but the new system worked for me.