"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

the only tanxiety i feel is the anxiety that people might associate me with the kinds of tanks in this thread that giggle while they let other players die

It's always funny to me because the execution requirement for perfectly murdering a single DPS without the rest of the party getting aggro is significantly higher than just doing w2w pulls. It's all just a righteous power-fantasy that anyone who seriously plays this game would understand isn't even mechanically feasible in most situations.

If anyone else in the party deals damage, or happens to heal, they're immediately put into combat and will be on the hook the moment the person you are attempting to grief dies. In this situation, you're now forced to try to perform the spooky W2W pull anyway, with your party now gimped for like 30%+ of its damage/kill-rate.

The really funny thing is, so many people here talk about how they pull small because they're trying to help the healer out, or have assessed the healer isn't competent enough to handle big pulls. If that's really the case, how is it sensible to forcibly create a situation that is even worse for the healer? Allowing a DPS to die makes healing through the already unexpected big pull significantly more difficult.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

So are tanks and healers. I haven't waited more than five minutes for either in a dungeon. Contrary to popular belief either role isn't special either. And this is coming from a tank main.



See, this is where it's completely acceptable to let them die. Trying to tag a bunch of mobs chasing someone can cause problems because you're dragging other mobs who may be AoEing. If they simply drag them back to you, then take them and be done with it. Turning off your stance for some petty nonsense is simply childish. Once again, they're not intending to cause drama but you are.

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Indeed. Though my line of thinking is more.. By the time I've grabbed all the mobs from you, you're either going to be dead or a healer has just wasted some resources keeping you alive which should have been spent elsewhere. People seem to think that playing merry-go-round solves anything. Personally, I'm not as petty enough to really deliberately turn my stance off since it's just torturing everyone else for the actions of a single individual (I've not really seen many people go that far yet. - Just an insistence that the tank will let you die to the mobs you've pulled is the worse I've seen). The only expectation I create is that they at least make this intention either known or to drag them to me (that way I pick them up regardless). I'll do what is feasible possible but I won't play a game of merry-go-round or tag. But then as a tank myself I typically always wall pull unless there's a serious gear disparity with people in the party, or unless I'm specifically asked to slow down. Still witness it enough as a DPS, however.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Nice try but that's still allowing the DPS to die, which isn't doing your job as a tank. Regardless, I wouldn't waste my time arguing with you in a dungeon, I'd just Vote Kick or accept it someone else initiated one. Like I said, waiting for a new tank doesn't take nearly as long as a lot of people think.

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Nope, healer let them die. If only the DPS was courteous enough to think about what the healer might have capacity for. Also that's the one smart thing you've said. Instead of trying to bully a tank into doing more than they are comfortable with. Leave the dungeon, or try to kick them and see if you don't get a GM Report.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Nice try but that's still allowing the DPS to die, which isn't doing your job as a tank. Regardless, I wouldn't waste my time arguing with you in a dungeon, I'd just Vote Kick or accept it someone else initiated one. Like I said, waiting for a new tank doesn't take nearly as long as a lot of people think.

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This issue has no right answer. It's a kick war and whoever has the numbers wins.

1. They can kick the DPS and get him banned via a GM report for griefing the party and pulling before everyone else was ready.
2. They can kick the Tank and get him banned via a GM report for griefing the party and not pulling as fast as everyone else wanted to go and/or not holding aggro.

So the best you can do in these instances is fight fire with fire and go out in a blaze of toxicity when the moment arrives. Make sure to bring a friend with you in to roulettes because if you go in without backup you're at the mercy of the circumstances.

In fact, I am 99% certain that anyone can ignite this exact conflict by taking offense to any micro action any player character does in the dungeon run, and I'm sure they can rationalize banning them into oblivion for it.

So the conclusion is best of luck folks. Make sure you're ready to be more offended, have more numbers, and be more eloquent when wording your GM report that the people on the other side of the argument.
Anyways, this is when you run dungeons with Forum/reddit mentality. You could otherwise be a patient and rational human being.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Nope, healer let them die. If only the DPS was courteous enough to think about what the healer might have capacity for. Also that's the one smart thing you've said. Instead of trying to bully a tank into doing more than they are comfortable with. Leave the dungeon, or try to kick them and see if you don't get a GM Report.

Good luck!

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Or you need to take responsibility for the hissy fit you threw. You, as the tank, put that healer in that situation for refusing to play your role. Don't try to pass off blame for a decision that was yours.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Nope, healer let them die. If only the DPS was courteous enough to think about what the healer might have capacity for.

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You have your gapcloser, your provoke, and your naturally high enmity generation built into your aoe rotation, all of those can easily take back mobs in one GCD. By not using those tools to control the mobs and pull them off of other players, you are letting them die.

But of course, you know that. You're just being intentionally obtuse and passive aggressive because you feel some need to teach the DPS a lesson, instead of doing your best to try to fulfill your role as a tank.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Nope, healer let them die. If only the DPS was courteous enough to think about what the healer might have capacity for. Also that's the one smart thing you've said. Instead of trying to bully a tank into doing more than they are comfortable with. Leave the dungeon, or try to kick them and see if you don't get a GM Report.

Good luck!

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Lol now it’s the healers fault? Not yours for throwing a tantrum? Personal responsibility. Why don’t you leave the dungeon if you are having a hard time, instead of making it worse on the party. Worse on the healer.

Nope. Better to blame the healer. Their fault you don’t want to pick up mobs and tank them.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Or you need to take responsibility for the hissy fit your threw. You, as the tank, put that healer in that situation for refusing to play your role. Don't try to pass off blame for a decision that was yours.

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Lmao, the first action here is DPS pulls mobs prior to the tank being ready.

You mentioned refusing to play your role, but I'd be actually allowing the DPS to RP the role they wanted to and taking on their role in return to be a good teammate. Yoshi asked me not to compel a playstyle, so I won't ask DPS to allow tanks to pull or use their words to ask for faster pulls instead of forcing them on them. Instead I'll do my DPS best. We all know DPS don't know how to AoE in dungeons anyway right. No big deal!

I don't know why you keep glossing over this. It's convenient for you, I guess you're one of the DPS that feels they get to force everyone to their own speed? But it's unfortunate. Real talk, when you see this happen next (because I'm assuming you're one of these DPS) put in a GM ticket, and come back and tag me with the result lol.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

You have your gapcloser, your provoke, and your naturally high enmity generation built into your aoe rotation, all of those can easily take back mobs in one GCD. By not using those tools to control the mobs and pull them off of other players, you are letting them die.

But of course, you know that. You're just being intentionally obtuse and passive aggressive because you feel some need to teach the DPS a lesson, instead of doing your best to try to fulfill your role as a tank.

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Yes, and what is the lesson? "This tank follows the TOS and allows me to be the absolute best that I want to be". I'm not even disagreeing with the concept of DPS pulling. I just don't get why they don't want the responsibility of all that comes with it?

If you don't want to play your role as DPS and want to tank, tank then. It seems pretty simple to me and I'm so incredibly magnanimous in allowing them that.

I know how hard it is for DPS to just not pull, or ask the tank to pull more using their words.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Or you need to take responsibility for the hissy fit you threw. You, as the tank, put that healer in that situation for refusing to play your role. Don't try to pass off blame for a decision that was yours.

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I didn't think it was the tanks roles to put up with people griefing them, if our not happy with the way the tank is pulling communicate with them.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Ah, so you choosing to switch to single target, where even if the other 2 members of a duty decided to ignore the person that pulled ahead of you, there is still a high chance that aggro will be stolen from you. And that's because you want to power trip.

Also, "more than the tank can handle?" You tanks always think you're bigger than you are. Big pulls are on the healer. Doesn't matter if you use cooldowns or not, if you have a bad healer, you will wipe. If you have a good healer, you will succeed. But you intentionally splitting that healers focus are making it tougher on them. Remember, the healer is the heart of the party. Tanks aren't as important as you think they are. I have see healers carry DPS through a dungeon when tanks throw tantrums.



My husband has been temp banned before for not picking up mobs that a DPS pulled, so I can already tell you the result.

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Agreed, no role is more important than the other. It's a team dynamic, which is why it's inconsiderate when one role tries to force something on another.

Also calling you on your lies. If this were true you would have brought this up WAY earlier in the conversation as a gotcha.

IF Your husband was banned for something, it was harassment or something else that went down or standing still in the dungeon. Not solo targeting and keeping going.
You know how I know? I've already won a favorable GM judgement on this topic which is why I'm having fun with you all. You can't force a tank to pull more than they are ready, especially if they are trying and still hitting mobs and communicating politely why they are doing what they are doing. I don't know what happened to the DPS in this situation if anything, but they tried to report me, I had a GM convo and nothing happened to my account. So lie to your heart's content for internet points but sincerely. Look at this objectively. Each job has a role in a dungeon, if the DPS wants to force a tank to take more than they can, they are the ones that will be looked at more harshly if a tank says "this is what I could handle, I was trying my best". As long as the tank doesn't curse them out or admit they are being spiteful, you can keep dreaming lol. You cannot bully people in this game and expect to get away with it. You cannot tell people how to play this game, you can't even say "hey you should be wall to wall pulling."

Edit: Saw your image and yep "not participating" but no additional context and I don't have the GM convo text to prove it, so you'll just be able to keep on lying on the circumstances for your point which is fine. I've got nothing to say since I can't prove you're not telling the entire situation.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

I didn't think it was the tanks roles to put up with people griefing them, if our not happy with the way the tank is pulling communicate with them.

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Honestly, real talk. They keep glossing over the initial action which is the DPS is being inconsiderate in a team dynamic and pinning it all on the tank when in reality... how hard is it to just type in chat?

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Originally Posted by Skiros

If a DPS or healer pulls in front of you as a tank, refusing to grab aggro and watching them die (or not; sometimes the healer or DPS can survive easily) is just petty. It's basically a temper tantrum. It's an "I gotta teach them a lesson" sorta attitude that is frankly kinda cringe.

That's just my opinion! Tanks shouldn't do this!

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You pull, you tank is a good mentality .

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

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That's only in a situation of they pull more when the party is already engaged. If they run ahead of the party and pull and don't bring anything back, they're off there fighting on their own in Narnia. I don't have any heals on the tank at this point because there's nothing to heal yet if they haven't even started the pull.

So there's two types of situations. If the dps pulls more when we currently have mobs, that's a lot more chaotic and there would be healing happening on the tank from the current batch. The dps has forced the entire party's hand in trying to survive now and not wipe. Which often results in a wipe even when the tank does grab aggro because they were pulling what the party was capable of and the dps ignored that.

If the dps runs ahead and gets aggro and nobody else is near them, the mobs will just eat the dps and go back to their business. Then they can be raised when we all get to where they died. That's the main situation being discussed in this thread. It's going to negatively affect the party far more if the healer runs in and tries to save the dps from their action, then just staying with the others and letting them die and raising them. In one situation, the party is delayed by at least two people (or more if the others came to rescue the healer and failed) having to walk back unless there's a co-raiser. In the other, nobody has to walk back and one person just has to deal with weakness for a while.

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

You pull, you tank is a good mentality .

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...fd24b106c2.jpg

Baby tanks think they are teaching dps a lesson but it's not the lesson they want it to be. What you are proving is not that the pull was too big but that the dps was a bad judge of character because they didnt notice the tank to be a petty child.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Baby tanks think they are teaching dps a lesson but it's not the lesson they want it to be. What you are proving is not that the pull was too big but that the dps was a bad judge of character because they didnt notice the tank to be a petty child.

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Yeah, like you can keep throwing insults since that's all you've got but I mean, the TOS isn't on your side.

If you're like experiencing tanks who absolutely stop moving and are dumb enough to type out "I'm not moving" lmao, then sure? Celebrate but an inconsiderate soul thinking they get to do what they want regardless of others thinking I'm petty? I'm ok with it <3 <3

Wish you were on Aether, we would have had so much fun!

So what if a dps pulls more, brings them back to the tank, tank is able to round them up but the healer is new to the role and can't handle it. Whose fault is that?

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Originally Posted by Mordrick

So what if a dps pulls more, brings them back to the tank, tank is able to round them up but the healer is new to the role and can't handle it. Whose fault is that?

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Imo, still the DPS. The DPS should just be in the current pack burning it. They have one job, why are you leaving the current mob to do something outside your role when all we need you to do is AOE them down.

The Healer is the one who controls the pace of the dungeon realistically, I start each dungeon by asking if they want single or double pulls and if we die, I check in with them. DPS are just there... all I need them to do is Aoe lol. Please for the love of god just aoe...

Healer is the real boss lol.

Dps wouldn’t pull more if the tank was you know, ahead of the party, pulling. If dps is pulling, tank is slacking

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Edit: Saw your image and yep "not participating" but no additional context and I don't have the GM convo text to prove it, so you'll just be able to keep on lying on the circumstances for your point which is fine. I've got nothing to say since I can't prove you're not telling the entire situation.

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I can give you the context. He was in Hullbreaker Isle, a DPS ran ahead of him and he refused to pick up the mobs. He said all of 2 things in that dungeon, as he plays on console and doesn't own a keyboard. He said "you pull you tank" and "kick me then". He got a 1 week ban and that was the GM ticket he received. GM tickets never go into full detail, more than the ToS violation that was committed. First you called me a liar, then you asked for proof of ticket, now you're saying the ticket lacks context. You can choose to believe me, or you can risk losing your account. It only takes a couple people to report. And if you lose your account, no skin off my back. But I showed you. You wanna die on that hill, it's your character you're sacrificing. Have a nice day. :)

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

You know, you can pop your stance and food as soon as you load into the dungeon, before you can even leave the little cutscene circle. Failing that, you can do it while running towards the first pack. How'd you let the BLM take three attacks before catching up? Did you not use sprint? Did you not gap-close? Personally, I'd be ashamed of myself if I let a DPS die because I was spending too much time at the start of the dungeon "activating my tank stance" .

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Why didn't the BLM have party situational awareness? The deal with a tank pulling isn't that they're the leader or the only one who can ever pull. It's that this is the role that is going to keep the aggro off the squishies so the squishies can do their jobs without worry. Why is it such a big deal to so many people on this thread to just stay with the party and move together? So if the tank needs a beat at first, just stay there a second until they move. If they continued to not move, then something could be asked in chat. But this whole thread wouldn't even be an issue if there more people of any role kept awareness of their party so the party could work as a team.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Why didn't the BLM have party situational awareness? The deal with a tank pulling isn't that they're the leader or the only one who can ever pull. It's that this is the role that is going to keep the aggro off the squishies so the squishies can do their jobs without worry. Why is it such a big deal to so many people on this thread to just stay with the party and move together? So if the tank needs a beat at first, just stay there a second until they move. If they continued to not move, then something could be asked in chat. But this whole thread wouldn't even be an issue if there more people of any role kept awareness of their party so the party could work as a team.

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Because you have entered into a reality distortion field where normal social behavior and things like being reasonable or rational are not part of this universe.

Also the OP likes it this way. The thread is tagged as follows (for those who never read the fine print at the bottom):

you bait you tank truststankbetter troll feeding grounds mom says im the leader

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

I can give you the context. He was in Hullbreaker Isle, a DPS ran ahead of him and he refused to pick up the mobs. He said all of 2 things in that dungeon, as he plays on console and doesn't own a keyboard. He said "you pull you tank" and "kick me then". He got a 1 week ban and that was the GM ticket he received. GM tickets never go into full detail, more than the ToS violation that was committed. First you called me a liar, then you asked for proof of ticket, now you're saying the ticket lacks context. You can choose to believe me, or you can risk losing your account. It only takes a couple people to report. And if you lose your account, no skin off my back. But I showed you. You wanna die on that hill, it's your character you're sacrificing. Have a nice day. :)

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Yes, and I 100% maintain what I've said because your situation isn't relevant to the points I've been making. Points you've addressed btw. First, GMs have access to dungeon chat, they do not have instant replay to watch an entire dungeon and see what happen. They have the report, chat logs and then they will reach out to you for context if necessary or just flat out pass judgement.

Your husband saw a character pull on content, said "you pull you tank", and then refused to play, didn't even try or do anything and then specifically said "kick me" instead of leaving himself and griefing the party. He deserved his warning, he legitimately wasn't playing.

Here's the thing that matters though: You don't get banned/warned for bad play. You do not get penalized for playing how you want to play as long as you are trying and being courteous when people ask (or the safest method, just don't say anything at all).

FFXIV has specifically broken down the TOS because people keep trying to complain and compelling certain playstyles when this game is more casual centric. In ALL of my examples in this chat, I've never advocated for a player to just... refuse to play. To stop moving the dungeon along and having the sheer stupidity of actually typing it in chat lol.

I simply advocated that if a DPS picks up a mob, while I've got stuff going on I'm going to KEEP PLAYING and focus on my mobs. THAT's what you should be trying to throw in your very late gocha on. But as i've said, I've already had a judgement and I didn't get a warning message to show, I just got a GM chatting me that I didn't screen grab.

So I will have a great day. I'll continue on following the TOS and not compelling a playstyle. To repeat my first post here: If you want to RP a tank, I will let you! Go for it!

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Why didn't the BLM have party situational awareness? The deal with a tank pulling isn't that they're the leader or the only one who can ever pull. It's that this is the role that is going to keep the aggro off the squishies so the squishies can do their jobs without worry. Why is it such a big deal to so many people on this thread to just stay with the party and move together? So if the tank needs a beat at first, just stay there a second until they move. If they continued to not move, then something could be asked in chat. But this whole thread wouldn't even be an issue if there more people of any role kept awareness of their party so the party could work as a team.

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Because the elitists have this pre-conceived notion that every tank that doesn't wall-to-wall is doing it to intentionally grief.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Nope, healer let them die. If only the DPS was courteous enough to think about what the healer might have capacity for. Also that's the one smart thing you've said. Instead of trying to bully a tank into doing more than they are comfortable with. Leave the dungeon, or try to kick them and see if you don't get a GM Report.

Good luck!

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I've done it before. Fun little factoid. There is no "abuse of vote kick" rule despite what some people like to insist. We even have a GM who outright stated they view that as simply a "Difference in playstyle." So in a scenario such as this, it more or less comes down to who kicks who first. Neither one of us will get reprimanded for the Vote Kick itself. What led to it is a different matter entirely.

And if the DPS had aggro, then you let them die regardless of what the healer does. Of course, you know that already.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Honestly, real talk. They keep glossing over the initial action which is the DPS is being inconsiderate in a team dynamic and pinning it all on the tank when in reality... how hard is it to just type in chat?

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How hard is it to simply ask them not to pull ahead? W2W pulls are the standard by level 70 at the latest though often it's expected come 60. Naturally, DPS or Healers are going to continue ahead because in 99% of their runs, they'll get a tank who is already sprinting ahead or running with them. Regardless, ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right?" Once again, we're back to the intent. DPS or Healers pulling isn't intended to grief the party. Purposely refusing to take aggro, thereby making the Healer's job harder, the run slower and potentially kill someone/wiping is solely intended to grief them over a bruised ego.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Why didn't the BLM have party situational awareness? The deal with a tank pulling isn't that they're the leader or the only one who can ever pull. It's that this is the role that is going to keep the aggro off the squishies so the squishies can do their jobs without worry. Why is it such a big deal to so many people on this thread to just stay with the party and move together? So if the tank needs a beat at first, just stay there a second until they move. If they continued to not move, then something could be asked in chat. But this whole thread wouldn't even be an issue if there more people of any role kept awareness of their party so the party could work as a team.

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Because this makes too much sense, and we're supposed to just accept that the tank is the baddy and the DPS is innocent despite each class having specific roles and public content is TEAM PLAY.

I love how you wrote, the tank isn't the leader or the only one who can ever pull. I only hopped on this thread because it was DPS centric. I get badass healers that will run a bit ahead of me and star the pull all the time and that is 100% ok to me. They are the ones that really control the pace of the dungeon. So I trust that they've seen the DPS is performing well enough to burn the pack down quickly enough and they can keep me alive.

The only HP that matters is the last one. I love an aggressive, DPSing, leading healer. Most of the time, these awesome healers also know how to use chat and just say "pull more" etc.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Dps wouldn’t pull more if the tank was you know, ahead of the party, pulling. If dps is pulling, tank is slacking

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BS

We have a new healer right now. I've been dpsing plenty of groups where Sages say they're still learning, can we take it easier. And I've seen plenty of my fellow dps just outright that ignore that the tank is pulling smaller to be considerate to these requests and go grab more than the new Sage can handle. And many times we wipe. There are plenty of selfish dps who will pull what *they* want only, regardless of what the party needs or wants.

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

Because the elitists have this pre-conceived notion that every tank that doesn't wall-to-wall is doing it to intentionally grief.

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Only the ones who don't pick up aggro whenever someone else pulls.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Instead of trying to bully a tank into doing more than they are comfortable with.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

DPS bullying tanks into accepting more than they can handle is forcing their playstyle on others

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Talk like this is extremely funny to me considering tanks press the exact same buttons regardless of how many packs they actually pull in this game.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

How hard is it to simply ask them not to pull ahead? W2W pulls are the standard by level 70 at the latest though often it's expected come 60. Naturally, DPS or Healers are going to continue ahead because in 99% of their runs, they'll get a tank who is already sprinting ahead or running with them. Regardless, ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right?" Once again, we're back to the intent. DPS or Healers pulling isn't intended to grief the party. Purposely refusing to take aggro, thereby making the Healer's job harder, the run slower and potentially kill someone/wiping is solely intended to grief them over a bruised ego.

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Now you add healers into it lol, the thread is about DPS. Healers do what they want. Hopefully it includes dpsing.

Honestly, you're just assigning positive intent to the DPS because it's convenient for you. Players aren't stupid. They know the roles and team dynamics, they are just selfish and want to speed up a dungeon. You're like "you can ask them to not pull ahead" while ignoring that they could just say "can we speed it up by chance". The mental gymnastics you go through to condemn one while protecting the other isn't objective.

You keep assuming it's a bruised ego too, in order to make yourself feel better. But there are actually newer players that have to learn the map of a dungeon, and get used to tanking. Tankxiety is actually real. So a whole lot of assumptions going on when the baseline is... stay in your lane and be kind to people. Communicate when in doubt.

We can keep going back and forth but nah. I don't agree lol.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

BS

We have a new healer right now. I've been dpsing plenty of groups where Sages say they're still learning, can we take it easier. And I've seen plenty of my fellow dps just outright that ignore that the tank is pulling smaller to be considerate to these requests and go grab more than the new Sage can handle. And many times we wipe. There are plenty of selfish dps who will pull what *they* want only, regardless of what the party needs or wants.

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I'll never get this line of logic. DPS pulling ahead is essentially free testing grounds for both the tank and healer. Take the Sage in your example. If they succeed in handling the pull, then they've just shown themselves they are capable and don't need to worry about it anymore. If it causes a wipe, blame the DPS for pulling more after being asked not to. It's entirely a win/win for Sage here.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Talk like this is extremely funny to me considering tanks press the exact same buttons regardless of how many packs they actually pull in this game.

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Yes and that's the problem. Tanking is exceptionally easy once you get it. But it does have a learning curve to get used to.

Inconsiderate players like you, thinking everyone is the same and learns at the same pace is the reason for the TOS update in the first place lol. Honestly, I'm glad the GMs and devs care, even when a selfish minority of players don't.

Just try to remember to be kind to people, you have no clue what it's like for them.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Once again, we're back to the intent. DPS or Healers pulling isn't intended to grief the party.

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It may not be griefing, but this behavior comes from a place of annoyance at the perceived pace of the dungeon. I highly doubt this all started because one DPS said let me try to optimize the party and make the tank's job easier. This started from a place of annoyance of pace, then got a bunch of people onboard via echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

It may not be griefing, but this behavior comes from a place of annoyance at the perceived pace of the dungeon. I highly doubt this all started because one DPS said let me try to optimize the party and make the tank's job easier. This started from a place of annoyance of pace, then got a bunch of people onboard via echo chamber.

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Yeah, they are just fully making up stuff at this point and pinning a "bruised ego" on the tank when in reality it's just "I want to do what I want and how dare you say otherwise".

Can't really talk to someone who isn't objective. The moment they break into perceived efficiencies outside a static setting, it's a joke lol.

Edit: Reached my daily limit!
Can't sit on the forums all day and the one fun person stopped responding to me. So good luck trying to compel a playstyle out there!

If you get me in a dungeon, let's have some fun! <3

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I'll never get this line of logic. DPS pulling ahead is essentially free testing grounds for both the tank and healer. Take the Sage in your example. If they succeed in handling the pull, then they've just shown themselves they are capable and don't need to worry about it anymore. If it causes a wipe, blame the DPS for pulling more after being asked not to. It's entirely a win/win for Sage here.

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Because when the party dies in these situations, they blame the healer. You main one, right? I do, too. They always blame us, no matter if it was our fault or not. It's also not the place of other party members to decide when someone else is ready. If someone has communicated they want to stay in their limits, then it's rude to just ignore that and decide "they gon' learn!". It's about being considerate to the person behind the screen and what they've communicated.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

I can give you the context. He was in Hullbreaker Isle, a DPS ran ahead of him and he refused to pick up the mobs. He said all of 2 things in that dungeon, as he plays on console and doesn't own a keyboard. He said "you pull you tank" and "kick me then". He got a 1 week ban and that was the GM ticket he received. GM tickets never go into full detail, more than the ToS violation that was committed. First you called me a liar, then you asked for proof of ticket, now you're saying the ticket lacks context. You can choose to believe me, or you can risk losing your account. It only takes a couple people to report. And if you lose your account, no skin off my back. But I showed you. You wanna die on that hill, it's your character you're sacrificing. Have a nice day. :)

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Actually the mistake the tank made here was being rude. The way to turn this around and get the people pulling for you banned is to change the words from "you pull, you tank" to "I'm still practicing this job and need to go slower, sorry". Any other comment they make pressuring you to go faster can be answered by "no thank you, still practicing" and DPS dying because the tank didnt grab aggro can simple be attributed to the tank getting used to his job with written evidence of the tank being polite.

Since the GMs only have the chat log and the reports all you have to do is go to the support desk and report them for kicking and this will turn into them getting banned for imposing a playstyle. It doesn't matter if you are new to the game or not and it's a polite and otherwise unprovable statement so there's actually little the DPS or anyone else in the party can do without being toxic and breaking TOS.

So really, all you need to do is be silent, keep those keywords in mind if they harass you and move on.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Now you add healers into it lol, the thread is about DPS. Healers do what they want. Hopefully it includes dpsing.

Honestly, you're just assigning positive intent to the DPS because it's convenient for you. Players aren't stupid. They know the roles and team dynamics, they are just selfish and want to speed up a dungeon. You're like "you can ask them to not pull ahead" while ignoring that they could just say "can we speed it up by chance". The mental gymnastics you go through to condemn one while protecting the other isn't objective.

You keep assuming it's a bruised ego too, in order to make yourself feel better. But there are actually newer players that have to learn the map of a dungeon, and get used to tanking. Tankxiety is actually real. So a whole lot of assumptions going on when the baseline is... stay in your lane and be kind to people. Communicate when in doubt.

We can keep going back and forth but nah. I don't agree lol.

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I've been saying DPS and Healers in virtually every response to this thread. Keep up, would you?

Likewise, I'll reiterate once again. The standard expectation is wall pulling because in the vast majority of cases that is what tanks will do at 70+. Therefore, if you want a slower pace for whatever reason, the onus is on you to say something because you're the one harboring different expectations. The only mental gymnastics here is you trying to find every excuse to justify griefing your party by intentionally letting people die. It's also both ironic and hypocritical that you absolve Healers from blame if they pull ahead but DPS need to be punished. Could it be that Healers keep you alive, therefore letting them die all but guarantees you'll die unless you're an 81+ Warrior? In other words, you can't dodge that your pettiness intentionally caused a wipe if a Healer runs ahead but if it's a DPS, you can skate around it. About those mental gymnastics...

It is a bruised ego. There's no way around that when you're purposely letting someone die. You outright admitted to single targeting just to ensure they die. And now you're gonna claim that isn't derived from a inflated ego? Please. Tankxiety is a nonsense excuse that people cling to in order to justify crappy behavior or unwillingness to improve. If you're a novice tank, don't tank 70+ dungeons. When I first started out, I spammed Stone Vigil, Darkhold and even Aurum for a bit just get my bearings. I didn't pop right into Holminster Switch and demand everyone else deal with me pulling one pack at a time. If I can do that why can't everyone else? Oh, it's because they don't care what other players want. But yes, keep insisting it's only the DPS who are selfish.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

Yes, and I 100% maintain what I've said because your situation isn't relevant to the points I've been making. Points you've addressed btw. First, GMs have access to dungeon chat, they do not have instant replay to watch an entire dungeon and see what happen. They have the report, chat logs and then they will reach out to you for context if necessary or just flat out pass judgement.

Your husband saw a character pull on content, said "you pull you tank", and then refused to play, didn't even try or do anything and then specifically said "kick me" instead of leaving himself and griefing the party. He deserved his warning, he legitimately wasn't playing.

Here's the thing that matters though: You don't get banned/warned for bad play. You do not get penalized for playing how you want to play as long as you are trying and being courteous when people ask (or the safest method, just don't say anything at all).

FFXIV has specifically broken down the TOS because people keep trying to complain and compelling certain playstyles when this game is more casual centric. In ALL of my examples in this chat, I've never advocated for a player to just... refuse to play. To stop moving the dungeon along and having the sheer stupidity of actually typing it in chat lol.

I simply advocated that if a DPS picks up a mob, while I've got stuff going on I'm going to KEEP PLAYING and focus on my mobs. THAT's what you should be trying to throw in your very late gocha on. But as i've said, I've already had a judgement and I didn't get a warning message to show, I just got a GM chatting me that I didn't screen grab.

So I will have a great day. I'll continue on following the TOS and not compelling a playstyle. To repeat my first post here: If you want to RP a tank, I will let you! Go for it!

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So, you admit that you find loopholes to avoid getting in trouble (ie. just not admitting it in chat) while going on and on about how you respect and follow the ToS and how important they are. If you can't admit you did it in chat, it's because you know it's a bannable offense. But don't worry, you follow the ToS. Those mental gymnastics, though.