The Alliance roulette is unbearable

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Originally Posted by Xuled

More like it's only bearable if you get CT. I'll gladly keep taking off my gear to get the more optimal tomes and/or EXP. Thanks! :D

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The thing that shocks me the most is that people like this even have the face to say out loud they're cheating.

Gotta say, I got The Weeping City of Mhach as my Alliance Roulette last night; and despite me cheering that it was finally not Crystal Tower...
I don't think a lot of people were anticipating it not being Crystal Tower and Raid wiped MULTIPLE times (to every boss).

Then prayed that today's roulette will be Crystal Tower.

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Originally Posted by weebtext

I wanna live in whatever wacko dimension some of you are in where you only get NieR raids.

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I've discovered the fastest way for me to get a Nier raid is to simply switch jobs to one that I'm completely uncomfortable with playing and haven't touched in months. That'll practically ensure I get NieR for my raid, Something I haven't seen more than but a few times in Trials to begin with, and then if I'm over 81, the level 81 dungeon.

But in all seriousness, the amount of CT that keeps popping is just.. bad. Just split off CT into it's own roulette and leave alliance raid roulette for people who actually.. want to do alliance raids and thus unlock them. Make it like EX, you have to have a clear on all current alliance raids (besides CT, since that would be in it's own thing) to qualify. I assure you, between new people, people who just want easy xp, and people doing EW Relics... CT roulette is not going to have to wait for long.

Even for the people who just want easy fast CT raids, there'd even be more variety for you because if you're really, honestly going to gear cheese down just to ensure you force LOTA... I mean, c'mon. WOD isn't hard. At all.

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Originally Posted by Spiralgaia

Might as well call it 'LotA' roulette.

For the last TWO weeks all I got every time (on different characters) was LotA. Not even Syrcus or WoD, LotA.

I have seen people wipe at Atomos.

Every time I see someone's HP suddenly popping up the moment we zone into LotA, I feel genuine DISDAIN.

As others have said, I genuinely hope there'd be SOME way to make it actually be a 'roulette'.

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I've seen this several times more since early release. Everytime I did I just dropped a "Lol" or "Nice HP" in the party or alliance chat.

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Originally Posted by Atma

I've discovered the fastest way for me to get a Nier raid is to simply switch jobs to one that I'm completely uncomfortable with playing and haven't touched in months. That'll practically ensure I get NieR for my raid, Something I haven't seen more than but a few times in Trials to begin with, and then if I'm over 81, the level 81 dungeon.

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Desire... or should say: fear sensor is real lol.

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

I would start doing the roulette again if they moved the CT raids to the Main Scenario roulette instead. Will never happen...

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You've said so. This will NEVER happen because they cannot code the queue system for CT ARRs into MSQ, due MSQ's party comp differing way too much from AR.

Hoping they turn Prae/Castrum into solo duties, and abolish the MSQ roulette, or put CT on the MSQ roulette after the other two are removed from party content.

Ideally though, the Alliance roulette gets broken into several roulettes, one for each expansion.

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

You've said so. This will NEVER happen because they cannot code the queue system for CT ARRs into MSQ, due MSQ's party comp differing way too much from AR.

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It's not even about the party composition. The basic purpose and nature of the duties are at odds with each other.

You do not deserve MSQ roulette-level rewards for running Syrcus Tower. The rewards can't be lowered to account for that without making them insufficient compensation for 50 minutes of Praetorium.

Moving CT out of alliance raids into its own roulette would be a welcome prospect, and would better balance the demand on the remaining alliance raid options, but it has to be a separate roulette. Not MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Ideally though, the Alliance roulette gets broken into several roulettes, one for each expansion.

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I simply don't see them giving out that many roulette bonuses per day. That'd be 4 instead of 1, that's bordering on excessively fast to level jobs.

1 "Not-CT" actual "alliance raid roulette" oriented towards players actually interested in unlocking and doing alliance raid content would be a welcome addition compared to the present state, but asking for 3 is a bit much.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's not even about the party composition. The basic purpose and nature of the duties are at odds with each other.

You do not deserve MSQ roulette-level rewards for running Syrcus Tower. The rewards can't be lowered to account for that without making them insufficient compensation for 50 minutes of Praetorium.

Moving CT out of alliance raids into its own roulette would be a welcome prospect, and would better balance the demand on the remaining alliance raid options, but it has to be a separate roulette. Not MSQ.

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Not to mention think you have a problem with people bailing on Castrum Meridianum because it's massively less xp then the bonus provided by Prae? Wait to see how fast people bail on CT alliance raids when they give even less than CM.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

The thing that shocks me the most is that people like this even have the face to say out loud they're cheating.

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Is it cheating though? I think that is a stretch.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

The thing that shocks me the most is that people like this even have the face to say out loud they're cheating.

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I mean, a lot of people do this, myself included. I don’t want to run long, death filled roulettes where people don’t even attempt the mechanics. I don’t want to deal with drama queens or rage quitters. Or that stupid gun mechanic/calculator mechanic in Ivalis that nobody seems to want to figure out. So I don’t.

For leveling/trial roulettes, it doesn’t take your ilvl into account as I tried it for fun and got Zodiark with ilvl 80 gear. Obviously swapped to level appropriate when I got in, but my point here is the devs have designed the system to explicitly check for ilvl for alliance, but not leveling or trials.

Moreover, on my alts I don’t even unlock anything outside of the CT series for the same reasons.

If the devs don’t think this is how it should be, they should rework the system.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Hoping they turn Prae/Castrum into solo duties, and abolish the MSQ roulette, or put CT on the MSQ roulette after the other two are removed from party content.

Ideally though, the Alliance roulette gets broken into several roulettes, one for each expansion.

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CT should stay in Alliance Raid roulette, but the roulette should be based entirely on your job's LEVEL and what you've unlocked. Meaning if you're 80 or higher, you have a chance of getting every possible raid you've unlocked, period, no amount of ilvl toying will change this. If you're 70 and have unlocked 2 of the Void Ark raids and 1 Ivalice raid, you have a chance of getting those 3 in addition to the CT raids. Meaning the only way to avoid the other alliance raids is to never having unlocked them at all.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

CT should stay in Alliance Raid roulette, but the roulette should be based entirely on your job's LEVEL and what you've unlocked. Meaning if you're 80 or higher, you have a chance of getting every possible raid you've unlocked, period, no amount of ilvl toying will change this. If you're 70 and have unlocked 2 of the Void Ark raids and 1 Ivalice raid, you have a chance of getting those 3 in addition to the CT raids. Meaning the only way to avoid the other alliance raids is to never having unlocked them at all.

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No it should not be base off level.

The reason the roulette exists is to assist other players doing that content, while getting a benefit for doing so. It also keeps old content some what relevant.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I mean, ya, I guess they could do that.

I dunno how I feel about the idea of more roulettes though. That could potentially fracture the leveling roulette population a bit too much which is obviously something SE probably wants to avoid given how dungeons are tied into the MSQ.

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I will take any amount of EXP or another round of tomes, if it has a bonus for me. Even if that meant like ten roulettes. Sounds like a good time. I want less shit to do to cap my tomes every week. Capping tomes is boring.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

No it should not be base off level.

The reason the roulette exists is to assist other players doing that content, while getting a benefit for doing so. It also keeps old content some what relevant.

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He's not saying that it will only queue you into your highest one. He's saying that it won't let you gear cheese the queue.

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Originally Posted by Chie_M

He's not saying that it will only queue you into your highest one. He's saying that it won't let you gear cheese the queue.

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Who cares about gear cheese though, this is such a petty complaint. If you are going into the roulette expecting x alliance raid, then don't do something called roulette. Crystal towers raids are ALWAYS going to be the most likely thing you will get because there are a lot of quests tied into them including the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Who cares about gear cheese though, this is such a petty complaint. If you are going into the roulette expecting x alliance raid, then don't do something called roulette. Crystal towers raids are ALWAYS going to be the most likely thing you will get because there are a lot of quests tied into them including the MSQ.

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If you don't care, then why are you so against disabling gear cheese? It doesn't affect someone who 'doesn't care'.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Who cares about gear cheese though, this is such a petty complaint. If you are going into the roulette expecting x alliance raid, then don't do something called roulette. Crystal towers raids are ALWAYS going to be the most likely thing you will get because there are a lot of quests tied into them including the MSQ.

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It's funny, you say that...yet you're against something that FIXES that complaint so it's never heard again, and doesn't effect anybody else. Nobody has complaints if you get CT due to somebody else queuing specifically for that. I'm perfectly fine getting Labyrinth, Syrcus, or WoD if somebody is new or needs it for a quest/relic grind. I'm not okay with getting it because somebody decided to ilvl cheese.

So we can report the people admitting they're contributing to the problem right?

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

So we can report the people admitting they're contributing to the problem right?

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You can report anything, but SE will have to decide whether that's a violation of the rules.

As far as I know, there is no rule for equipping a certain gear.

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Originally Posted by linayar

You can report anything, but SE will have to decide whether that's a violation of the rules.

As far as I know, there is no rule for equipping a certain gear.

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Well there's no rule against typing words in chat, but it's how you use those words that determines if it breaks tos or not.

If you're abusing systems in the game to your advantage while making the experience worse for everyone else, I imagine the GMs would have a problem with it.

I mean I would hope, lol

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

Well there's no rule against typing words in chat, but it's how you use those words that determines if it breaks tos or not.

If you're abusing systems in the game to your advantage while making the experience worse for everyone else, I imagine the GMs would have a problem with it.

I mean I would hope, lol

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Well, that's debatable, because some people do enjoy how fast CT runs can go (even if there are still wipes from time to time).

And I don't think the idea of running a low-level duty or an easy duty as being a worse experience would hold up in a game that incentivizes you to run those kinds of duties.

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

Well there's no rule against typing words in chat, but it's how you use those words that determines if it breaks tos or not.

If you're abusing systems in the game to your advantage while making the experience worse for everyone else, I imagine the GMs would have a problem with it.

I mean I would hope, lol

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You’d have to prove your experience is ruined. Getting CT is not a ruined experience. MPK, forced wipes and not healing with the intention of killing you would be ruining your experience. Manipulating a queue…. No

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

So we can report the people admitting they're contributing to the problem right?

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You are welcome to report, but people aren’t breaking any rules by cheesing the queue.

Nor is deliberately not unlocking the other raids.

Should the devs eventually decide to fix this, I wouldn’t do alliance raids at all- I assume I’m not alone in that..which would only mean even less people doing them and even longer lines for everyone.

If you queued for roulette, you shouldn’t care which you get because you are there to facilitate others who do care which one they get. If you specifically want a different raid, queue for that one specifically. The roulette isn’t some random thing to prevent your boredom, it’s to fill what others specifically queue for.

In the unlikely chance everyone in your pool happens to:
…be higher level…
…with higher iLvl..
…not want anything specific…
…have other raids unlocked…
only then will you have a chance at a random higher raid.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Should the devs eventually decide to fix this, I wouldn’t do alliance raids at all- I assume I’m not alone in that..which would only mean even less people doing them and even longer lines for everyone.

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You say you wouldn't do the Alliance Raid roulette if they fixed this, but then in the same post you say...

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Originally Posted by kaynide

If you queued for roulette, you shouldn’t care which you get because you are there to facilitate others who do care which one they get. If you specifically want a different raid, queue for that one specifically. The roulette isn’t some random thing to prevent your boredom, it’s to fill what others specifically queue for.

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So which is it? Are you queuing only for CT via ilvl cheese, or are you actually allowing yourself to be at the whims of RNG?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You say you wouldn't do the Alliance Raid roulette if they fixed this, but then in the same post you say...


So which is it? Are you queuing only for CT via ilvl cheese, or are you actually allowing yourself to be at the whims of RNG?

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You’re not wrong, but the difference is we all have the option to choose to “level down” which raids we might get by how the system is built. In addition, the CT raids are the lowest denominator for the raids..as in the least amount of requirements to get it, so obviously they would pop more anyway. In my above quote, I’m the guy specifically trying to get CT with his extremely nervous/challenged wife because she can’t handle the higher level raids.

If they were to fix the system (which I am not against), I simply wouldn’t have that option. But I do, same as power leveling Bluemage.

If I could get Titan and Sastasha every time on those roulettes I would, but they are built so we can’t do that. The alliance raids are specifically built to allow this.

Again, if the rules changed I wouldn’t whine over it, I would just find the new fastest route to xp for my tastes.

I don't have any good solutions but I just want to say that I'm also getting fed up with the first two tiers of Crystal Tower. One of the main reasons I don't really care for a certain character: that character reminds me of the dull and boring LotA and Syrcus Tower. I also still love WoD, though.

Also, I do think this is a problem that potentially could apply to all the roulettes. So any solution probably would require a fundamental change to how the roulettes work.

Honestly I'd be fine if the rewards are just scaled to the content. So 10 Astronomies for CT raids, 20 for Mhach, 40 for Ivalice, 50 for YoRHa. The only reason people try the gear cheese to get CT raids is because it's fast and easy. It makes sense for the other raids to give more rewards anyways.

There's no good solution because if you force an ilvl sync for queuing, then new players would have longer queue times and that's unfair for people who want to get through the story.

And people do like how fast CT can go. Imagine queuing for Alliance Raid and getting a Nier raid or Monastery on the daily? You might think you want those more but you'll realize that they're hard and there will certainly be wipes if people are new.

Alliance roulette was created for new players have shorter queue times and incentivizes veterans to do it for the rewards. If they changed it then there'll just be more complaining.

It's unfortunate that people choose to take off their gear to force it rather than let it be random but it is what it is. There's no real solution. Making it so taking off gear doesn't matter has the potential to cause people with insufficient gear to grief because their gear doesn't allow them to do the content.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

There's no good solution…

It's unfortunate that people choose to take off their gear to force it rather than let it be random but it is what it is. There's no real solution. Making it so taking off gear doesn't matter has the potential to cause people with insufficient gear to grief because their gear doesn't allow them to do the content.

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I mean, it’s two fold:

Imagine I have a character using level 69 gear and just just turned level 70. I go for the alliance raid and get the 3rd Ivalis (required 365 to enter; drops 390). I would be rocking something like the Molybdenum 68-69ish set (iLvl 285). Imagine if half the raid was like that…

I’ve said it a few times and really the answer is simple: reduce the ilvl sync in the 2.0 series so that you have to do the mechanics properly. At its hardest, it wasn’t any harder than the 3.0 series is now.

If none of the raids were faceroll easy and all of similar level challenge, people wouldn’t care which one they get.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Imagine I have a character using level 69 gear and just just turned level 70. I go for the alliance raid and get the 3rd Ivalis (required 365 to enter; drops 390). I would be rocking something like the Molybdenum 68-69ish set (iLvl 285). Imagine if half the raid was like that…

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While I honestly would love to see the Crystal Tower raids have actual mechanics again, this problem is fairly easily solved: in order to queue into Alliance Roulette you need to have gear of at least the ilevel necessary for the highest (level-wise) raid you could get of those you have unlocked and have cleared.

Only have Crystal Tower unlocked? Cool, you only need to be in gear sufficient to run World of Darkness in order to queue in.

Have all of them unlocked, but you're on a job that's level 58? Cool, still only need to be in gear sufficient to run World of Darkness in order to queue in. Have the Ivalice raids unlocked, but not the Mhachi ones? Well, if you're under level 70, that means you still only need to be in gear sufficient to run World of Darkness in order to queue in. Hit level 70, though, and you need to be in gear sufficient for Orbonne to queue in. Finished Rabanastre but haven't yet done Ridorana in the Ivalice series, and don't have YoRHa unlocked? Then if you're level 70+, you only need to be in gear sufficient for Rabanastre to queue into Alliance Roulette.

By definition, if you have cleared a raid, you have at least one job sufficiently geared to queue into that raid directly... thus you have at least one thing you can run alliance roulette on.

In your example, when you're level 69, you could queue into alliance roulette and you'd only need to be in gear sufficient for Dun Scaith (if you have those unlocked, anyway). Hit level 70 and -- assuming you'd already run the Ivalice raids before -- you now have to gear that job in actual level 70 gear if you want to continue to take it into alliance roulette. Yeah, that's a little annoying, but it would presumably solve the situation where people trying to queue into the Mhach or Ivalice raids can sometimes have to wait up to an hour for the queue to pop.

Because whether people ilevel cheesing is the cause or not, the insane wait time for later alliance raids means the roulette as it stands is presumably not working as intended.

They should split the Alliance raids
Add another Alliance Roulette call it Expert Alliance Roulette and add the 2 latest Alliance Raids in it which currently is Ivalice and Nier,
The original Alliance Raid Roulette will have CT and Voidsent raids

When Endwalkers Alliance raid drops then the Expert Alliance Raid Roulette will have Nier and the Endwalker AR
The original will then have CT, Voidsent and Ivalice raids

Expert Alliance Roulette should obviously give a much bigger Daily bonus and Planiclusters
Normal Alliance Roulette should still give the same amount but minus the Planiclusters

Dungeons have their separate Expert Roulette, why can't Alliance raids have it too, since it is being heavily abused with ilvl cheesers.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

You’re not wrong, but the difference is we all have the option to choose to “level down” which raids we might get by how the system is built.

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That is exactly why people are frustrated with the system. You have the option to level down, but they don't have the option to level up.

If you want to do Crystal Tower, you're able to manipulate your ilevel so you can get the duty you want AND get all the benefits of running the roulette.

But the person who wants something other than CT isn't able to do that. If they want the roulette rewards, they have to take the likely chance of getting CT again.

So saying "just queue for the raid you want directly" doesn't work. The roulette system is currently rigged to favour your preferences and give you roulette rewards while guaranteeing the duty you want, and yet you're telling other people "all you need to do to get the duty you want is give up your roulette rewards".

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That is exactly why people are frustrated with the system. You have the option to level down, but they don't have the option to level up.

If you want to do Crystal Tower, you're able to manipulate your ilevel so you can get the duty you want AND get all the benefits of running the roulette.

But the person who wants something other than CT isn't able to do that. If they want the roulette rewards, they have to take the likely chance of getting CT again.

So saying "just queue for the raid you want directly" doesn't work. The roulette system is currently rigged to favour your preferences and give you roulette rewards while guaranteeing the duty you want, and yet you're telling other people "all you need to do to get the duty you want is give up your roulette rewards".

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That's kind of my point to fixing it. It is designed to suit the way I want to do it, so it's unfair to say I'm rigging or otherwise cheating it. I'm doing exactly what is allowed within the parameters of the game. It's been this way since 3.0. If the devs didn't like how this is going, they would have fixed it.

The solution as I said is to make it so it doesn't matter which raid you get as far as overall difficulty/length- if the people and devs want the change it's simple to implement. Them not fixing it suggests they don't care players do like I do.

What I'm doing isn't any different than simply not unlocking the raids entirely- are we saying people (like my wife) should HAVE to unlock them at appropriate levels? I think not.

Moreover, I readily admit to doing this- a lot of people would not feel comfortable doing that. At the very least, I am being honest and opening myself to displeasure of others. I accept that, but I also do not think what I'm doing is wrong.

tl;dr: People should keep posting about this politely in a feedback section if they want it to change. Ranting or being mad at people playing the game as it is made doesn't help.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

That's kind of my point to fixing it. It is designed to suit the way I want to do it, so it's unfair to say I'm rigging or otherwise cheating it. I'm doing exactly what is allowed within the parameters of the game. It's been this way since 3.0. If the devs didn't like how this is going, they would have fixed it.

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I'm not saying you're cheating, I'm saying it's unfair of you – as someone who is fortunate to be getting everything you want while doing the roulette – to tell other people that for them to get what they want from the roulette they just need to not do the roulette, as if that's a solution.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I really wish there were a way to scale the rewards. If you were to queue at 80 in 50 gear, for example, you’d get a worthless reward in exchange for your worthless commitment.

If you wore 80 gear on an 80 character, though, you’d open yourself to the full reward no matter what you actually ended up running (assuming everything were unlocked for that level.) Perhaps even an additional bonus if you cleared something uncommonly cleared.

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That's now their vision for non high-end content in this game. As Yoshida himself stated, 24+ player raids are designed so bad players can be carried by the ones who put effort. The majority of the game's pve content doesn't reward effort nor does it punishes below average performance.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I've seen this several times more since early release. Everytime I did I just dropped a "Lol" or "Nice HP" in the party or alliance chat.

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Not sure why people haven't figured out your ilevel is snapshotted at the time you queue up. You can lower your gear, queue, and then go back to regular gear and no one would ever notice the difference.

I would keep it simple: make two roulettes, one for CT which would ensure that people who are trying to progress MSQ do not wait for too long to advance the story and one for the optional raids. Like dungeons, ARs could also give extra tomes of whatever is appropriate based on their level.

As for suggestions such as having your gear match your character’s level, it wouldn’t work: not only it is now pretty much impossible not to over level even with multiple jobs with all the xp boosters, raids and gear (save MB) remain locked behind story progression. I have an alt that has just had access to the lvl 70 gear in Rhalgr's Reach and the Ivalice raids despite having 2 jobs at lvl 90, 1 at 82 and 3 in the mid 70s. Getting lvl 90 gear at this stage would be useless (and needlessly expensive) as I am still limited to lvl 70 content.

Complaining about humans taking the path of least resistance when the differences are as large as they are is just silly.

The real problem is the difficulty / time to complete differences between the various sets of alliance raids, coupled with the roulette providing the same reward regardless of which one is completed.

And I don't see any solutions absent splitting out the raid sets into separate roulette queues or rebalancing everything to be of similar time / difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That is exactly why people are frustrated with the system. You have the option to level down, but they don't have the option to level up.

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Is there not the option to get things closer to your level when you queue? I forget what it’s called but it should be in the same list as running stuff at mom ilvl etc. I’d assume that’d help

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Is there not the option to get things closer to your level when you queue? I forget what it’s called but it should be in the same list as running stuff at mom ilvl etc. I’d assume that’d help

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IIRC, that only works when queuing as a full group, and only for light party stuff.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Is there not the option to get things closer to your level when you queue? I forget what it’s called but it should be in the same list as running stuff at mom ilvl etc. I’d assume that’d help

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Do you mean limited leveling roulette? It picks one of dungeons at the same to 7 level lower accessible to the lowest level member in the party.

That option only works for 4-man premade leveling roulette though. It won't do anything for solo to 3 player queueing together.