Why is the healer class basically a one spell dps class?

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Originally Posted by Ayche

Anyone can do the experiment of going to Bozja, chugging the Savior juice and slotting in some Lost healing spells. Then you go from CE to CE, acting as true DPS healer. And while an interesting experience, it can also be one of frustration because sticking to a strict rotation and being available on demand to heal the whole party with 1-2 GCDs of heals do not mix together.

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What? This works brilliant on rdm.

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Originally Posted by glamazon

Where are the other options? There’s more to fights than dps and healing there’s crowd control and enchamcement and enfeeblement so many options that fc doesn’t take advantage of.

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I really doubt that the fight designers are that creative lmao. Heck they can't even design fights with high healing requirements.

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Originally Posted by AikenDrum

What? This works brilliant on rdm.

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Isn't that because RDM does not really have a rotation, but priority rules it follows? So it can stop to do a healer duty and not lose as much as something like BLM would lose if they were interrupted for let's say 5 seconds or more.
But I cannot really speak for both BLM or RDM, I have not played both to max level.
I guess Summoner too could find a moment between Bahamut and Phoenix to do healing duty, but it would be kinda awkward to pop either and then realize that I need to go heal someone because they got hit by raid boss. If I am an actual healer, Glare is a Glare is a Glare. Since they are all equal in contribution, I do not need to worry about missing out on an extra glare.

Anyone who says healers can't have a DPS rotation has never played a fistweaver.

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Originally Posted by Ayche

Isn't that because RDM does not really have a rotation, but priority rules it follows? So it can stop to do a healer duty and not lose as much as something like BLM would lose if they were interrupted for let's say 5 seconds or more.

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hmm i dunno, planning rdm melee combo around healing isn't that much different to planning it around mechanics

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Originally Posted by Corbeau

Anyone who says healers can't have a DPS rotation has never played a fistweaver.

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I hated fistweaving. I also hate catweaving. I also hate the reason the second became a thing.

When i play a healer, i want damage to heal. Not green dps. I think they need to up damage across the board. And more damage down rebuffs for standing in stuff on top of the damage.

:P

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Originally Posted by AikenDrum

hmm i dunno, planning rdm melee combo around healing isn't that much different to planning it around mechanics

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You don't plan anyways.

If you're using savior, you're using lost cure 4 because it's an OGCD and is basically a full party heal per use.

Lost Cure IV is truly nuts isn't it. It is bit more realistic to pretend you would be stuck with Lost Cure I, II and III. And anyway, while you can pace yourself by the boss mechanics, you cannot pace yourself to other people taking damage at random.

I mean, what is the fantasy here? Would people blink if you just made healing playing BLM until it is heal-o-clock in the trial schedule and you hit "heal everyone" button few times and then go back to firing the copycat RDM/BLM/SMN rotation?

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Originally Posted by Ayche

I mean, what is the fantasy here? Would people blink if you just made healing playing BLM until it is heal-o-clock in the trial schedule and you hit "heal everyone" button few times and then go back to firing the copycat RDM/BLM/SMN rotation?

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isn't it kinda already like that? was forced to heal few DRs on seraph whm and most of the time two lilies buttons were all the healing needed

anyway, the question was whether or not having to heal with healing spells would interfere with dps jobs rotation - and it didn't feel like that for rdm; and i also vastly preferred playing a healing role with rdm than with whm

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Originally Posted by Acece

I really doubt that the fight designers are that creative lmao. Heck they can't even design fights with high healing requirements.

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Why is there this attitude that devs don't know or can't design the game? Has it occurred to you that this is what the majority of players wanted?

Because of player feedback over the years, this is what the current game is a reflection of.

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Originally Posted by Ayche

Glare spam is economical.

Anyone can do the experiment of going to Bozja, chugging the Savior juice and slotting in some Lost healing spells. Then you go from CE to CE, acting as true DPS healer. And while an interesting experience, it can also be one of frustration because sticking to a strict rotation and being available on demand to heal the whole party with 1-2 GCDs of heals do not mix together. That is the key to it, Glare spam can be interrupted with no penalty at any cost, to save whoever just ate some raid mechanic to the face. So an "actual" DPS rotation does not fit into the healing lifestyle.

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This is only half true. Incoming damage in BSF/Zadnor content is highly infrequent & scripted (as is in majority other content outside Ultimate—I can’t speak of that since I don’t play that).

Any class with simple 1-2-3 combo can safely wait long enough to finish their combo before tossing a Lost Cure III. At that point we’re basically playing a psuedo-CNJ who had to stop spamming Stone II to cast Medica. The cost of stopping to heal is, we basically stop doing damage for a GCD (or more). With Lost Cure II/IV, we don’t even need to break our combo nor finish them since they can be weaved. I can speak of this because I’ve chugged savior essence as all DPS classes except DRG, MNK & SAM into CEs & CLL/DRn/Dalriada. The number of times I needed to actually break a combo to stop & cast Cure III was very remote & mostly was my own fault for zoning out.

The only outlier is probably DRG (and possibly MNK) since DRGs has a long string of combo (5 GCD!) that continues to their next round of combo via Raiden Thrust. Healers can definitely use a simple 1-2 or 1-2-3 combo.

Honestly, DPS Job + Savior gameplay was refreshing & I wish we have that kind of ‘downtime busy’ in other general contents. :)

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

Why is there this attitude that devs don't know or can't design the game? Has it occurred to you that this is what the majority of players wanted?

Because of player feedback over the years, this is what the current game is a reflection of.

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Spamming one button for the majority of an encounter sure is...exactly the opposite of what I've been asking for. At least.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

Why is there this attitude that devs don't know or can't design the game? Has it occurred to you that this is what the majority of players wanted?

Because of player feedback over the years, this is what the current game is a reflection of.

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Can tell you now, no self respecting Ast wished their dps rotation would be given to Whm and Sch, Ast may have had something to keep it busy to slow down the monotony but Whm certainly didn't and still doesn't, while Sch had it's thing that keeped it busy removed.

I still can't forget that Sch had the best pet system(responsiveness etc) back in SB and they actively made it worse in ShB rather than improving Smn's pet system to be on Sch's level.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

Why is there this attitude that devs don't know or can't design the game? Has it occurred to you that this is what the majority of players wanted?

Because of player feedback over the years, this is what the current game is a reflection of.

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I would really like to see the feedback you speak of.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

Why is there this attitude that devs don't know or can't design the game? Has it occurred to you that this is what the majority of players wanted?

Because of player feedback over the years, this is what the current game is a reflection of.

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Afaik, most feedback from healers asked for more balance by bringign each job up to par where they were lacking.

What the devs gave us was pushing everyone down to the lowest common denominator, so every healer was equally bad.

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Originally Posted by Sani2341

Afaik, most feedback from healers asked for more balance by bringign each job up to par where they were lacking.

What the devs gave us was pushing everyone down to the lowest common denominator, so every healer was equally bad.

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Seriously. Every other role got step 4 and we got put back to step 1.

even ast's wanted their rotation improved. Remember we had 2 dots and 2 attacks and gravity back in hw (Combust 2 had a cast time and Combust 1 was separate and instant) and in SB we got lowered to 1/1 but gained lord of crowns and earthly star as ogcd attacks. Now we have 1 of each and gravity

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

Why is there this attitude that devs don't know or can't design the game? Has it occurred to you that this is what the majority of players wanted?

Because of player feedback over the years, this is what the current game is a reflection of.

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Really? lets examine the evidence.

No player asked for the excessive homogenisation in shb
No monk demanded a broken job or more useless clutter. The devs ended up going back to square 1 in 5.4 because they never thought about what players actually want from monk.
No white mages wanted to get reduced to chucking rocks in sb, nor have their elements removed in shb turning them into a pure healer
No scholar asked for selene to get deleted and their dots removed and shields neutered, turning them into a pure healer
No astro requested their time magic deleted, cards reduced to requiring a parser, all balance cards and come 6.0 nocturnal deleted, turning them into a pure healer white mage with a coin flip
No dark knight asked to be turned into warrior in shb nor all the good uses of dark arts in hw removed in sb
No dps asked for bard to get neutered and machinist still has ping issues
Not a single person every expansion asks for skills to be moved higher in the levelling tree with a new coat of paint leaving an increasingly large amount of levels a chore.
Nobody asked for SHB to be easier and "accessible" given SB was widely seen as very easy with barely any challenge outside of suzaku TGcid and tsuki
No player asked for glamour to still favour tanks by miles

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

even ast's wanted their rotation improved. Remember we had 2 dots and 2 attacks and gravity back in hw (Combust 2 had a cast time and Combust 1 was separate and instant) and in SB we got lowered to 1/1 but gained lord of crowns and earthly star as ogcd attacks. Now we have 1 of each and gravity

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gravity while being fast I wish it had something like slow or heavy. holy has stun and you dont have to look at something to use it. art of war is spammy and can be use while moving which is nice while tank pulls entire room It be nice if they touch up gravity. I tend to no lies be less willing on using gravity vs art of war or holy, also kinda why I miss old old speed where all spells was 50% less which made even res less taxing sure our spells are less expensive now yet at times I feel it was better off keeping old light and simply have draw giving 10% MP back and reduce draw cd to about 15secs would be better vs spell reduce mp cost. Example old light speed would put aspect helios 500 dirunal to 250 vs the flat 400 of this asp helios we have now. It kind feels some how we got cheated yet its at the same time its still working out fine currently for me lol. Even before mp reduction came I never really had a issue managing mp unless a very bad run/prog and needed intense chain heal/res.

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Originally Posted by Ayche

Anyone can do the experiment of going to Bozja, chugging the Savior juice and slotting in some Lost healing spells. Then you go from CE to CE, acting as true DPS healer. And while an interesting experience, it can also be one of frustration because sticking to a strict rotation and being available on demand to heal the whole party with 1-2 GCDs of heals do not mix together. That is the key to it, Glare spam can be interrupted with no penalty at any cost, to save whoever just ate some raid mechanic to the face. So an "actual" DPS rotation does not fit into the healing lifestyle.

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Why go to extremes to make an example? There is a massive difference between a full fledged dps rotation and spamming a single button. No one's asking to have a full heal toolkit plus an entire dps toolkit, but an in-between would be great.

There are plenty of ways to do it while being able to fit healing in. Combos don't have to break if you heal, look at how forgiving Dancer combos are for example. You can have several procs that could open weave windows that are ideal for oGCD healing. An extra DoT. A higher MP instant cast Glare/Broil for weave. Seraph Strike. More aoe. Lots of ideas they could try.

Their design philosophy wouldn't change either. If you just run Normal and MSQ, healbot and don't do much dps it doesn't even affect you, just do what you normally do. It's just something extra for the players who have learned the class.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Why go to extremes to make an example? There is a massive difference between a full fledged dps rotation and spamming a single button. No one's asking to have a full heal toolkit plus an entire dps toolkit, but an in-between would be great.

There are plenty of ways to do it while being able to fit healing in. Combos don't have to break if you heal, look at how forgiving Dancer combos are for example. You can have several procs that could open weave windows that are ideal for oGCD healing. An extra DoT. A higher MP instant cast Glare/Broil for weave. Seraph Strike. More aoe. Lots of ideas they could try...

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I wanted the thought experiment to skew towards the extreme to feel for what is considered more "neutral" as a change. But if I were to psycho-analyze how it feels like Unit 3 wants the game to be, weaving in more damage """for free""" will never happen. I could see longer cast time DPS spell being universally introduced, like a Healer Flare. 4 second cast time would mean you earned the time to cast it since that is time you cannot be healing and being pseudo-aoe it could be fit into both boss damage and mob clearing.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

This is only half true. Incoming damage in BSF/Zadnor content is highly infrequent & scripted (as is in majority other content outside Ultimate—I can’t speak of that since I don’t play that).

Any class with simple 1-2-3 combo can safely wait long enough to finish their combo before tossing a Lost Cure III. At that point we’re basically playing a psuedo-CNJ who had to stop spamming Stone II to cast Medica. The cost of stopping to heal is, we basically stop doing damage for a GCD (or more). With Lost Cure II/IV, we don’t even need to break our combo nor finish them since they can be weaved. I can speak of this because I’ve chugged savior essence as all DPS classes except DRG, MNK & SAM into CEs & CLL/DRn/Dalriada. The number of times I needed to actually break a combo to stop & cast Cure III was very remote & mostly was my own fault for zoning out...

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Half true? Harsh. it is after all based on what I have seen with my own eyes. CE damage might be scripted, but the amount of people being hit by those mechanics CE to CE is completely random, they are not your dungeons runs where nobody actually gets hit by markers.

My bozja dps healing experience has been on DRG, MNK, SMN and MCH. Machinist of them was the easiest to do it as, Summoner somewhere in the middle and Monk and Dragoon were the clunkiest. And I tend to use only Lost Cure I and Lost Cure III since ... that is what fragments tend to give me plenty I guess.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

This is only half true. Incoming damage in BSF/Zadnor content is highly infrequent & scripted (as is in majority other content outside Ultimate—I can’t speak of that since I don’t play that).

Any class with simple 1-2-3 combo can safely wait long enough to finish their combo before tossing a Lost Cure III. At that point we’re basically playing a psuedo-CNJ who had to stop spamming Stone II to cast Medica. The cost of stopping to heal is, we basically stop doing damage for a GCD (or more). With Lost Cure II/IV, we don’t even need to break our combo nor finish them since they can be weaved. I can speak of this because I’ve chugged savior essence as all DPS classes except DRG, MNK & SAM into CEs & CLL/DRn/Dalriada. The number of times I needed to actually break a combo to stop & cast Cure III was very remote & mostly was my own fault for zoning out.

The only outlier is probably DRG (and possibly MNK) since DRGs has a long string of combo (5 GCD!) that continues to their next round of combo via Raiden Thrust. Healers can definitely use a simple 1-2 or 1-2-3 combo.

Honestly, DPS Job + Savior gameplay was refreshing & I wish we have that kind of ‘downtime busy’ in other general contents. :)

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for a similar reason, BLU healing is also much more interesting compared to "real" healers, since they have plenty to do outside of healing when it's so infrequently required (combos, ogcds, status effects/buffs, etc).

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Originally Posted by SpiralMask

for a similar reason, BLU healing is also much more interesting compared to "real" healers, since they have plenty to do outside of healing when it's so infrequently required (combos, ogcds, status effects/buffs, etc).

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On top of that, BLU also doesn't suffer from healing button bloat. They have just enough buttons to heal adequately---quite the opposite of what current green classes have at this point. Which is why I pitched in my perspective being a blue/red healer in BSF contents. Lost Cure II/III is all they need to heal effectively. IV is a bit tad excessive but also works. In case of deaths, limited phoenix downs & Lost Arise (for blue classes) can cover that.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

Why is there this attitude that devs don't know or can't design the game? Has it occurred to you that this is what the majority of players wanted?

Because of player feedback over the years, this is what the current game is a reflection of.

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You here when they added the Lily job gauge to White Mage in Stormblood and everyone trashed on it and the Lilies remained useless for almost the entire expansion even after loads and loads of people complaining how bad they were? They totally listen to feedback alright.

For anyone who doesn't know just how bad Lilies were for a huge portion of Stormblood: You had a 20% chance upon using Cure 1 or Cure 2 to generate one Lily. Divine Benison was locked behind getting at least 1 lily. Lilies were consumed upon using certain healing cooldowns and lowered their cooldowns by a percentage. People complained constantly how badly they were only to finally be changed late Stormblood. Plenary Indulgence was equally as bad but is a whole other can of worms.

Now you see why I have a pessimistic outlook on healer design, reworks and healer changes.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

You here when they added the Lily job gauge to White Mage in Stormblood and everyone trashed on it and the Lilies remained useless for almost the entire expansion even after loads and loads of people complaining how bad they were? They totally listen to feedback alright.

For anyone who doesn't know just how bad Lilies were for a huge portion of Stormblood: You had a 20% chance upon using Cure 1 or Cure 2 to generate one Lily. Divine Benison was locked behind getting at least 1 lily. Lilies were consumed upon using certain healing cooldowns and lowered their cooldowns by a percentage. People complained constantly how badly they were only to finally be changed late Stormblood. Plenary Indulgence was equally as bad but is a whole other can of worms.

Now you see why I have a pessimistic outlook on healer design, reworks and healer changes.

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I remember the huge whm feedback thread, and the only thing they fixed was the lilly gauged lmao.
If any one can find it I would appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

You here when they added the Lily job gauge to White Mage in Stormblood and everyone trashed on it and the Lilies remained useless for almost the entire expansion even after loads and loads of people complaining how bad they were? They totally listen to feedback alright.

For anyone who doesn't know just how bad Lilies were for a huge portion of Stormblood: You had a 20% chance upon using Cure 1 or Cure 2 to generate one Lily. Divine Benison was locked behind getting at least 1 lily. Lilies were consumed upon using certain healing cooldowns and lowered their cooldowns by a percentage. People complained constantly how badly they were only to finally be changed late Stormblood. Plenary Indulgence was equally as bad but is a whole other can of worms.

Now you see why I have a pessimistic outlook on healer design, reworks and healer changes.

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You know a job gauge is horribly designed when the best advice given was always "ignore it completely". And PI was a mess, escpecially the first version that was RNG. Because everyone loves RNG heals in a game with strictly scriped fights that revolve around planning and coordinating.

The word "Healer" is a curious one, rooted in ambiguity.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

Why is there this attitude that devs don't know or can't design the game? Has it occurred to you that this is what the majority of players wanted?

Because of player feedback over the years, this is what the current game is a reflection of.

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Because we have a litany of evidence they often ignore how the playerbase actually interacts with their systems or stubbornly cling to a job design nobody likes. Several others have highlighted the laughable introduction of White Mage's Lily gauge. So I'll provide some other standout examples.

- Monk was notoriously criticised throughout all of Stormblood; primarily the slow effect on Riddle of Fire, how useless Fist Stances were and the mess of RNG that was Charka stacks. Come Shadowbringers, they literally changed nothing despite citing Monk as their most improved job going into the expansion. The backlash was so immense, they buffed Monk to kingdom come and removed the slow on Riddle in five weeks. It took the playerbase outright refusing to play Monk before they finally listened. And the job is still a complete mess of broken ideas they've clung to since Heavensward.

- Dark Knight languished in obscurity for most of Stormblood due to being completely inferior to both its counterparts. It stood as the only tank without AoE mitigation whereas Paladin had two. All while Paladin dealt noticeably higher damage. Warrior, of course, remained King. In fact, it took them four years to finally end Warrior's reign as Godking super tank.

- Perhaps the most outright laughable example is when Yoshida openly acknowledged they weren't balancing Bard and Machinist with Piercing in mind despite Bard having such a massive power creep that even after nerfing Piercing by 50% going from Heavensward to Stormblood, it still remained the strongest DPS in Alphascape.

Suffice it to say... they don't have the best track record.

The devs don't care about healers at all. It's so obvious. I literally just got an email asking me to vote for my favorite Endwalker reveal (from stages to male Viera to the new raids). Sage isn't even an option. Oh, but you can bet Reaper is.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

The devs don't care about healers at all. It's so obvious. I literally just got an email asking me to vote for my favorite Endwalker reveal (from stages to male Viera to the new raids). Sage isn't even an option. Oh, but you can bet Reaper is.

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This was relation to the digital fanfest and SAGE was revealed before that. However, the fact they didn’t release a poll after that announcement is kinda telling.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

You here when they added the Lily job gauge to White Mage in Stormblood and everyone trashed on it and the Lilies remained useless for almost the entire expansion even after loads and loads of people complaining how bad they were? They totally listen to feedback alright.

For anyone who doesn't know just how bad Lilies were for a huge portion of Stormblood: You had a 20% chance upon using Cure 1 or Cure 2 to generate one Lily. Divine Benison was locked behind getting at least 1 lily. Lilies were consumed upon using certain healing cooldowns and lowered their cooldowns by a percentage. People complained constantly how badly they were only to finally be changed late Stormblood. Plenary Indulgence was equally as bad but is a whole other can of worms.

Now you see why I have a pessimistic outlook on healer design, reworks and healer changes.

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And then those same developers deleted SCH's energy drain without compensating elsewhere. Energy drain was the SCH stack dump when healing wasn't required and was used to build fairy gauge.

The devs have changed / added multiple systems without properly considering their ramifications or how they'll actually be played in game.

It seems to be a very whack-a-mole approach IMHO.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

- Perhaps the most outright laughable example is when Yoshida openly acknowledged they weren't balancing Bard and Machinist with Piercing in mind despite Bard having such a massive power creep that even after nerfing Piercing by 50% going from Heavensward to Stormblood, it still remained the strongest DPS in Alphascape.

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Even more laughable? In Shadowbringer press / media tour Yoshi-P said "He doesn't like taking away abilities from jobs" ( in relation to RDM)

Yoshi-P on Red Mages (2 part GIF):

https://i.imgur.com/TzNQfGE.gif

Meanwhile on Scholar

https://i.imgur.com/saGkK51.png

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

You here when they added the Lily job gauge to White Mage in Stormblood and everyone trashed on it and the Lilies remained useless for almost the entire expansion even after loads and loads of people complaining how bad they were? They totally listen to feedback alright.

For anyone who doesn't know just how bad Lilies were for a huge portion of Stormblood: You had a 20% chance upon using Cure 1 or Cure 2 to generate one Lily. Divine Benison was locked behind getting at least 1 lily. Lilies were consumed upon using certain healing cooldowns and lowered their cooldowns by a percentage. People complained constantly how badly they were only to finally be changed late Stormblood. Plenary Indulgence was equally as bad but is a whole other can of worms.

Now you see why I have a pessimistic outlook on healer design, reworks and healer changes.

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Only correction I want to make sure was that Cure 2 was changed to 100 percent before release because the negative press that they got from the media tour concerning that and cure 1 to 50 percent chance but this made cure 1 moot so they changed that to 100 percent in either patch 4.05 or 4.07 think it was the earlier one. And bension got changed in 4.2 which was to me them admitting defeat to the whole lily system, Don't forget they never even changed the lvl 78 trait which was the 20 percent chance that a crit cure 1 or cure 2 would lower assize or asylum's cd by 5 seconds so you had a proc on a proc chance so basically 2-3 percent chance of it happening. Instead of trying to do anything with it they just outright super buffed assize to make up for it but too little too late and the same for the enmity changes that people were asking for 5-6 years at that point.

Of course given that fights were scripted, it still mean that the effect of the lillies were moot overall.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

We had close to that in SHB launch. Healers were in extremely short supply.

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The lack of a new healer at the time was also a pretty strong gut punch.

I started as AST back then but couldn't stand the ShB launch state of it, and swapped to WHM... And had an "ehh" experience overall, sans the story blurring my memory of how not-fun playing it was. And I can guarantee that even without the times that I didn't queue with friends, every single queue was still instant.

Overall, their state is roughly better (poor SCH), and AST was a complete turn-around from 5.0 and it's actually somewhat enjoyable to play these days - but god I miss HW and SB AST so bad it hurts :(

SHb will end where all three healers ended up the most balanced it has ever been in this game. Let's go back a little bit where White Mage was laughing stock of the community at the end of HW and beginning of Stormblood with the atrocious confession stacks tied to Cure/Cure II. Astro just kept getting its peg lowered since the HW buff, but it was never in a bad position, MP getting tied to cards was something we always wanted from day one and that allowed fixing party memes. Scholar had QoL things, but it was never in a poor state.

With that they upped the ante on end-game savage healing this go around. If you were a healer you had your pick of raid groups to join, raid ads everywhere looking for a healer. E12S party finders always had the healer slots last to fill, some waited hours. People just didn't want to heal or should I say learn to heal that fight. It's a handful, but fulfilling as well.

There will likely be a healer resurgence in 6.0, people always want to try new jobs and sometimes make a drastic main change

Of course be prepared for the usual a lot of subpar healers too since they are changing the meta with pure/barrier healing and how they want healers to do more. When Dark Knight arrived a lot of red DPS that were not good at the game tried to tank, with mixed results.

Yah SCH plays so boring now...I actually hate it. Went from my favorite to worst. The ridiculous notion of a "pure healer" needs to go away forever. We waited. We tried it. It sucks.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

In Shadowbringer press / media tour Yoshi-P said "He doesn't like taking away abilities from jobs"

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I find this bit of developer/player interplay to be interesting in FFXIV. You can't actually balance anything without having the ability to remove actions and apply nerfs. In the vast majority of games, whenever a job/character starts dominating, the dev team just tells you to stuff it, applies some nerfs, and everyone moves on, the better for it. FFXIV's dev team just can't seem to handle that sort of confrontation. They want to create the impression that they're only handing out nice things ("you get a buff, and you get a buff"). But you can't balance anything through upward balance. That just leads to this realm of progressive power creep, especially defensively, where everyone can sustain, rez, and invuln with impunity.

It also leads to situations in which certain jobs are forever powerful. So rather than being open about the fact that they want to nerf a job that's viewed as mandatory, the dev team quietly do most of their nerfs on expansion release, when players are least likely to notice. Then people start complaining and those historically dominant jobs start making their way slowly back up to the top. This whole 'pure healer' (WHM/AST)/'shield healer' (SCH) is about power balance as well. It's really about offering up a better SCH alternative to the playerbase, just to keep everyone from running the same comp for ten years. It's the same thought process why they created an entire 'BRD' sub-role, and then proceeded to build a better BRD. You get a lot less pushback that way.

Scholar is just ok, the job had been a headache to YoshiP from the get-go. Seraph was a cool change, giving Scholar a weaving double shield ability almost like Neutral Sect, so you can broil/ruin/move and get shields up. However it doesn't preclude the fact the job is kind of boring after awhile, because you just really hit dawn on cool down, and tell your raid group to stand in the soil for mitigation/regen things. Nevermind all the knock the party around mechanics this savage tier, that your fairy has to be constantly re-placed.

This expansion they only did numbers/potency changes outside of the major job changes they highlighted on live letters such as Monk and Astro. I liked this approach, because they can do small things without causing havoc or having to reverse decisions. Although it always gives them breathing room to "reset" things when new expansions come out so they can quietly delete/replace skills.

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Originally Posted by Truen

Yah SCH plays so boring now...I actually hate it. Went from my favorite to worst. The ridiculous notion of a "pure healer" needs to go away forever. We waited. We tried it. It sucks.

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Yep, this 100%. It was always my favorite job in the game, and I barely play it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Only correction I want to make sure was that Cure 2 was changed to 100 percent before release because the negative press that they got from the media tour concerning that and cure 1 to 50 percent chance but this made cure 1 moot so they changed that to 100 percent in either patch 4.05 or 4.07 think it was the earlier one. And bension got changed in 4.2 which was to me them admitting defeat to the whole lily system, Don't forget they never even changed the lvl 78 trait which was the 20 percent chance that a crit cure 1 or cure 2 would lower assize or asylum's cd by 5 seconds so you had a proc on a proc chance so basically 2-3 percent chance of it happening. Instead of trying to do anything with it they just outright super buffed assize to make up for it but too little too late and the same for the enmity changes that people were asking for 5-6 years at that point.

Of course given that fights were scripted, it still mean that the effect of the lillies were moot overall.

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I'm just too lazy and wish they had patch change logs so looking it up is easier, unless there is already something like that. It is not easy to look up accurate accounts of old abilities.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

I'm just too lazy and wish they had patch change logs so looking it up is easier, unless there is already something like that. It is not easy to look up accurate accounts of old abilities.

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Here you go: FFXIV's Patch Archives.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Here you go: FFXIV's Patch Archives.

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Fun game to play while crawling through the patch notes. Keep a tally on the number of times you see "Holy: Potency has been reduced" or something close enough. There will come a point when you see it one more time and go "*sigh* Really?"

Naoki "We don't like nerfing things, only buffing them!" Yoshida. :cool::cool::cool: