Aggro Icon

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Boy do I hate the excuse "everybody does it we should too".

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SE tried doing it their own way and we wound up with this.

Some of the most fun i've had in this game was exploring, and finding out which monsters aggro, which can kick my butt, and which are friendly and will follow you about. Why do we need aggro markers? There is no penalty for dying =/

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Just like the poor newbies experiance in ffxi? he nearly did quit the game after being stuck in jeuno. Alot of ppl have.

I like how ppl keep bringing up ffxi but hasn't played it recently. Or else you would know the community isn't like it used to be. The only help you get is "go to website x" Heck even from an LS you get this.

Also even if you know something aggros you still need to figure out away to avoid it. All the icon does is just shows ppl what aggros.

again like I'm gonna say be ready to teach newbies how aggro works if it gets removed.

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Are you seriously kidding me? You think I am ever going to need to teach newbies how aggro works?

Oh but of course, because in the real world if they saw an ogre with flaming skin and sharm teeth and claws they would just walk up to it and say hello as a means of avoidance? How dumb do you think newbies are?

Every single aggressive monster in this game, be it an ant, a pudding, an ogre, or a hyppocerf, each and every single one shows symptoms of aggressive behaviour. They all look threatening! And that is how you tell them apart from a gentle creature such as a marmot which is small and furry. An aggro indicator is just redundant.

Anyway, if a newbie managed to get to Jeuno unscathed then he obvioudsly knew how to avoid aggro mobs. Besides, that is such an isolated incident that it hardly even applies.

Quite frankly, I loved exploring the countryside and figuring out if things were aggressive or not on my own. It creates some of the most hilarious, as well as hair-raising, experiences. After all, it's not much of an adventure if you already know what's dangerous or not, is it? Half of that fun is the risk! So please, give us the option to turn off the aggressive mob icon.

I would also like the ability to at least turn off the aggro icon.

Side note: It's kind of funny that in a game the developers say they are working to make more scary, they give you a giant red indicator as to which monsters might attack. Hand-holding much? I say take out the giant red balloons next to monster names and bring the thrill of discovery back to the game. ^_^b

I would welcome the option to turn it off, simply because personally I don't need it and find it ugly. I can see how others would find it useful though. For the argument of 'be prepared to explain to newbs if they get rid of it' ...before they had it, did you find yourself constantly explaining to newbies what agros? I've been playing since launch and I can't say I have once had a newbie ask me what agros. They run into something, die, laugh and carry on with the game. If someone quits over something like that then that's fine, they're clearly way too stressed of a person!

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

They all look threatening! And that is how you tell them apart from a gentle creature such as a marmot which is small and furry. An aggro indicator is just redundant.
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what about the vultures. Vultures are non predatory birds.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Aggro indication is a standard feature of modern MMOs. What other MMOs are you playing that don't offer this? FFXI? We've already established that this ISN'T FFXI.

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Playing Devil's advocate... the people that don't necessarily like or want the aggro indicator could also argue that FFXIV isn't other MMOs. :) Just saying.

I personally dislike the agro indicator, takes away from my enjoyment of exploring. I still think I am one of few people who know Efts Agro to sound and if you stop moving they wont actually agro you unless you run into them. The monsters have so many unique quirks built into them.

From the above mentioned Efts method of actually agroing you. "if you stop moving when they pick up there head and look a you they will go back to being non-agressive and then you can easilly run by or use your DoL skills almost next to them.

To funguars poison cloud only being released if you hit them when they are puffed up, all sorts of things that people don't apreciate in the long run it seems.

If anything I would at least want the option to turn it off because I find the icon super annoying.

I think the aggro indicator should be displayed with the difficulty indicator in the target widget. Perhaps just a red border on the difficulty icon, or a small red dot next to it. Right now, it's just ugly, and obtrusive.

Also, I'd like to see it disappear from other people's leve mobs, and mobs I'm too high to aggro.

Make it smaller or leave it out.
Or the best choice: Put it in the "below" name-bar.

People in behest or leves still don't pay attention anyways.

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Originally Posted by Baelari

I think the aggro indicator should be displayed with the difficulty indicator in the target widget. Perhaps just a red border on the difficulty icon, or a small red dot next to it. Right now, it's just ugly, and obtrusive.

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That sounds good to me

I've played FFXI and WoW and I don't like agro information. There are people telling that most of actual MMOs have that information, but that shouldn't force something to be implemented. We're not lemmings...
IMHO this is not about "user friendly" environment; FOR ME it's more about making an easier way of exploring, taking away the fear/immersion factor. I dislike that.
This is just my opinion, as valuable as everyone else's one.

PD: Sorry for my written English. It's not my mother language...

I get the points that some people are bringing up. Some people that play games can't or just don't want to figure things out for themselves. I think having the information in the game can be a good thing. As long as we have the choice to turn off the aggro indicator, npc markers, ingame tutorials (if we ever get them), and the such it will be good for everyone. I really don't get why we didn't have a toggle option to begin with. I thought that something like that would come standard nowadays.

I'm just like a number of people on here, I don't want to know everything. I want to learn through my experiences. I like the uncertainty when I'm exploring, not being sure if the creature is going to nom on me or not. But, I understand that there are a number of people that don't like that. People that want information handed to them on a silver platter, which isn't a bad thing. The dev team can make it where it pleases both sides of this argument. I don't think that this is asking for too much.

To put it bluntly the addition of that icon seems like 'idiot proofing'.

I have seen it posted a few times in this thread that people miss the sense of uncertainty that came from exploring the world. Accidentally pulling aggro was the most amusing part of FFXI. For example wandering around areas in the Sky zone and someone casting a spell and bringing the house down on themselves was hilarious. Avoiding aggro in FFXI with the three distinct types of aggro was an art in itself and was a very enjoyable robust part of the game. Here it's artless at best and now tacky on top of that since they're announced as aggro with ridiculous large red icons (that people still aggro anyhow).

There should be no indication that it aggros at all. Try a little good old fashioned learning and go figure it out yourselves. Also... if you aren't sure a giant troll monster or a dragon is aggressive... uninstall the game. (yes, I'm aware there are grey areas where they might or might not be aggressive, to that I refer you back to "go figure it out")

I don't know about you guys, but the icon makes me think I am playing minesweeper. O.o

I think that the icon is a great idea, am all for exploration and all that and the icon helps to know what mobs to avoid and which are safe. Some people's "learn it your self" ideology, is others frustration. Best example, even at 50, there are thing that can easy kill you, so imagine you spent the last hour ruining from camp A to get to camp B and 3min before you hit camp a you come across a mob. With this icon you can know if you can pet the mob and move on, or take 3min extra to go around it, instead of having to rerun from the start.
I do agree that we need a toggle on/off for the icons, not only for mobs but for quest npc. That way some can learn the hard way, some can cut out frustration.

It's true that players in Leve parties and Behest still don't know what mobs aggro. Or they can't judge the aggro distance very well. Or they don't understand the concept of pulling. Or they just aren't paying attention. Or something.

The Aggro Icon did not make players any better at avoiding aggro.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

I think that the icon is a great idea, am all for exploration and all that and the icon helps to know what mobs to avoid and which are safe. Some people's "learn it your self" ideology, is others frustration. Best example, even at 50, there are thing that can easy kill you, so imagine you spent the last hour ruining from camp A to get to camp B and 3min before you hit camp a you come across a mob. With this icon you can know if you can pet the mob and move on, or take 3min extra to go around it, instead of having to rerun from the start.
I do agree that we need a toggle on/off for the icons, not only for mobs but for quest npc. That way some can learn the hard way, some can cut out frustration.

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In that scenario you just avoid the mob anyways. Not sure why the icon is even the lest bit necessary or useful. Exploration is part of these types of an MMO, as is learning the game's mob's traits. I think that the icon, in addition to being fugly as hell, is pointless.

How is it difficult, or even less fun, to just avoid things if you don't know their stance (passive/aggressive)? Then as you continue playing you learn which mobs to avoid in which areas. Trial/Error and other players giving you information is all part of the experience - why dumb it down to such a degree? Is it a game breaker? No. Silly and unnecessary? Yes.

And what camp takes an hour to run to? With the changes to Anima usage for TP and the ability to set favorites, you shouldn't have to run THAT long to get anywhere...

Think ppl need to get off the exploration mindset. This game was suppose to be fore the "less time consuming" crowd. It takes time to learn what aggros and what don't. This time is taken away from enjoyment. Sorry I'd be for the removel of it, if I knew the community was a bit more helpful. I can't trust that with what happen in my last few days of playing ffxi.

Guys, no one helps newbies anymore. Newbies get stuck and quit. And in reality just because you have a "i aggro" sign, don't really do much in taking away from the adventure. It just makes this game less time consuming.

Players will still have to learn to avoid said aggro. So knowing what does and doesn't aggro is helpful. I used to play ffxi for 2 hrs a day, because I had to share a ps2 with my brother and had no wireless internet. Once I had to start exploring I wasted alot of time because of death. It wasn't fun.

Luckily I did join a helpful Linkshell and got help. But no mmo is like that anymore. Everyone treats newbies like scum.

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Originally Posted by Vesper

I would say the following would be a good idea.

• Keep the icons, but shrink them by 50%
• Add the ability to toggle them on and off via the configurations (like names)

this allows those who hate them the change to hide them and allows those who like them their ability to use em. Win/Win.

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+1 and agreed so much. Aggressive mobs need to be marked for the newer players. The way they currently do it i'm sure we all can agree is awful looking. The best possible approach is making it able to toggle on and off. Personally I would have it off, but new players get frustrated when they have no idea whats does or doesn't attack them. I remember a friend complaining about this in particular when we played open beta together.

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Originally Posted by Sojiro

but new players get frustrated when they have no idea whats does or doesn't attack them. I remember a friend complaining about this in particular when we played open beta together.

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What ever happen to using your memory for the next time? If it attacked me before, I'll steer clear of it next time.

Ef personal responsibility or having a need for any kind of adaptive play to remember.

Hold my hand.

Give me a cuddle.

And make sure to put a spotlight on the mean'o monsters that want to hurt me.

Bleeeeh

I don't have an issue with the icon itself, my problem is the fact it is the center of attention. It's a giant Red blob, and it is an eyesore. They need to make it look better, and not be so damn ugly. The option to toggle it would also be nice for those that don't like it.

And the people that attack Non-Aggro when it is obvious there is aggro nearby that will infact aggro you when you fight near it, need to go play a different game. Or die.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Guys, no one helps newbies anymore. Newbies get stuck and quit.

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Well, I can't say that I don't like helping others. And besides, if that really were a game breaking issue for newcomers SE could limit the usage of stuff like that to rank 1 to 10.

Anyone who has played the game for a week knows there is only a handful of mobs that are aggressive. I think this icon is an eyesore and would gladly have it removed, were the decision up to me.

Allow us toggle it on and off.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

What ever happen to using your memory for the next time? If it attacked me before, I'll steer clear of it next time.

Ef personal responsibility or having a need for any kind of adaptive play to remember.

Hold my hand.

Give me a cuddle.

And make sure to put a spotlight on the mean'o monsters that want to hurt me.

Bleeeeh

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*sigh*

I appreciate that new players struggle with the concept of identifying aggroing mobs (who hasn't mistaken a giant gobbue for an oversized teddy bear before? >.> <.<), but it's almost insulting (or sad, if it's really true) to think that new players are incapable of remembering their experiences. Life is about learning from our experiences - eg: if you touch the iron while it's on, you learn not to do it again (in most cases).

However, I suppose the compromise would be the ability to toggle this "assistance" on and off, like others have said.

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Originally Posted by Arya

*sigh*

I appreciate that new players struggle with the concept of identifying aggroing mobs (who hasn't mistaken a giant gobbue for an oversized teddy bear before? >.> <.<), but it's almost insulting (or sad, if it's really true) to think that new players are incapable of remembering their experiences. Life is about learning from our experiences - eg: if you touch the iron while it's on, you learn not to do it again (in most cases).

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Exactly what I mean.

Exactly...

I hate the icon. It takes away from the adventure part of the game. People should know when playing a mmo that there will be agressive and you should be careful when wondering around. Also, in this game the enemies that do aggro are far enough spread out that you should have no problem getting by them.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Think ppl need to get off the exploration mindset. This game was suppose to be fore the "less time consuming" crowd. It takes time to learn what aggros and what don't. [SNIP] And in reality just because you have a "i aggro" sign, don't really do much in taking away from the adventure. It just makes this game less time consuming. [SNIP] I used to play ffxi for 2 hrs a day, because I had to share a ps2 with my brother and had no wireless internet. Once I had to start exploring I wasted alot of time because of death. It wasn't fun.

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I couldn't agree more.

A big complaint in reviews is that FFXIV was missing the 'pick up and play' quality. Lack of tutorials, no help for new players.

This is a small bit of information that can help them, and I'm frankly surprised at the opposition and the elitist attitudes. That the 'noobs should just know what's up'.

I, for one, NEVER thought that accidental aggro in FFXI was amusing. I was a White Mage, and accidental aggro often meant death, which meant loss of XP and frustration. FFXIV's new direction is about alleviating player frustration.

If some people are so opposed to it, then, fine, move it next to the con shield over the mob's nameplate. Put all the info in one place. Make it optional. Maybe that would make everyone happy.

But, please, don't remove it. And make it show by default for the new people.

New people should learn the hard way. I wish i was new so i could feel the anxiety of not knowing whats round the corner and a sense of danger. As im not new and from FFXI its like a sixth sense, dont even need to look at the mob directly.

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Originally Posted by Picoman

New people should learn the hard way. I wish i was new so i could feel the anxiety of not knowing whats round the corner and a sense of danger. As im not new and from FFXI its like a sixth sense, dont even need to look at the mob directly.

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Not everyone coming to this game played FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Not everyone coming to this game played FFXI.

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<clap> <clap>

So they should learn.

I think that its really counter intuitive how they said in an interview that they made the mobs larger to give more of a dangerous/scary feel.

But the just decided to slap a giant red spikey ball next to their name so people will know if the mobs aggro. Taking away all sense of danger.

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Originally Posted by Picoman

<clap> <clap>

So they should learn.

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Oh, please, get off your high horse. It's attitudes like this that keep FFXIV stuck in the last decade and alienating new players.

Would you complain about your car having a gas gauge, a standard feature on all modern automobiles, because it's more exciting to keep track of the mileage in your head and never know when you're going to run out of gas in the middle of nowhere? And expect that everyone else drive that way, too?

What does keeping track of mileage in your head have to do with recalling which mobs aggro and which don't?

The aggro icon itself isn't the issue, it is the mentality people have about it. What is so wrong about it? Is it because it is ugly, or because it is too helpful? Any feature that makes the game easier to play gets large amounts of hate from the Hardcore players. This is true of all games. The reason people hate the Aggro icon (Other than it being ugly as Gary Busey) is the simple fact that Hardcore players don't want the new players to have a luxury they didn't have.

Before they changed the SP system, I was a R20 GLA and R8 Sentinel. After the change, there were people who just started ranking their GLA that had already surpassed my SNT Rank simply because they were leveling with the new system. This pissed me off. Why? Because they had it easier than I did.

Same case here. Anyone who has spent time with the game knows what to watch out for, and the fact that it is now obvious as to what aggros and what doesn't makes it easier for newcomers, but was a luxury that we didn't have previous to this patch.

So really...it call comes down to two reasons: The icon is ugly, and it is N00b Friendly.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Oh, please, get off your high horse. It's attitudes like this that keep FFXIV stuck in the last decade and alienating new players.

Would you complain about your car having a gas gauge, a standard feature on all modern automobiles, because it's more exciting to keep track of the mileage in your head and never know when you're going to run out of gas in the middle of nowhere? And expect that everyone else drive that way, too?

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why not a toggle option.
I should not have to stare at an ugly red dot because some newby doesnt pay attention to mob behavior .
Customization is always a win.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Would you complain about your car having a gas gauge, a standard feature on all modern automobiles, because it's more exciting to keep track of the mileage in your head and never know when you're going to run out of gas in the middle of nowhere? And expect that everyone else drive that way, too?

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Poor analogy. That has nothing to do with this. First of all that's a requirement, having an aggro icon is not a requirement. That's also incredibly dangerous. In this game there's not even a death penalty (yet, hopefully). Is it that difficult to memorize what enemies are bad and what aren't? It's almost obvious to begin with. Something looks mean don't go near it. "Hm, that thing killed me, I should probably not go near it again" is not a difficult concept. If people can't put up with something as simple as that it's pretty incompetent.

Hell, why not have information that shows all enemies HP/MP.

Hell, why not have an icon that shows what they're weak to.

People keep demanding games to become more basic and basic, they demand hidden information. There's a reason a lot of information is hidden, because it's fun. The unexpected is fun. Unpredictable situations are fun.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Poor analogy. That has nothing to do with this. First of all that's a requirement, having an aggro icon is not a requirement.

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Actually, I think it's a perfect analogy. And what you feel is necessary is subjective. I feel aggro indicators are necessary to make it through my journey, just like knowing how much gas is in my car by looking at something that tells me. I wouldn't do it from memory, and wouldn't expect anyone else to do it that way, either.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Hell, why not have information that shows all enemies HP/MP.

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Actually, I wouldn't be opposed to that, either.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

The unexpected is fun. Unpredictable situations are fun.

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Call me a control freak, but I don't like surprises.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Actually, I think it's a perfect analogy. And what you feel is necessary is subjective. I feel aggro indicators are necessary to make it through my journey, just like knowing how much gas is in my car by looking at something that tells me. I wouldn't do it from memory, and wouldn't expect anyone else to do it that way, either.



Actually, I wouldn't be opposed to that, either.



Call me a control freak, but I don't like surprises.

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Perfect example of people with diferent taste in games.
i wish we had a magic ball tosee the future and see what exactly is ffxiv going to be when finished(and no i dont mean the best game ever, my best thin ever could be the worst piece of crap for you ).At this point , is all about the mayority and who is more loud.It pains me to say it but i do not belong to this category.