Mentors...please!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoranRigel

A language barrier as an excuse for toxic behavior and rule-breaking? Hmm... I 'm afraid that 's a weak argument.

---

In where did I state it was against toxic behavior hmm? You cant read? I was just giving on example how not everyone listens to advice's, but not in ANY point did I say it is okay to be toxic in exchange. It had no link to that, since most times, if you see people dont speak English/same language as you its hard to talk to each other in anyway, even in toxic way (that I do not say is okay). Usually people either stay quiet intead of stating to yell at others for not undertanding since, if you have ever talked to someone in language they do not understand/know its like talking to a wall (not in offensive way) since you cant get a response from them, and you cant understand each other. But as I have seen you in this threat, you want to make bad out of every sentence even if its not bad in any way *shrug*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

In where did I state it was against toxic behavior hmm? You cant read?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

So if the mentor cant help because of language barrier, are they a bad mentor?

---

The subject of our conversation is not that mentors cannot help by the fault (real or imaginary) of players, but that the mentoring system provokes mentors to take game achievements and behave toxic, which is fundamentally contrary to the rules of the game.
Please read previous messages in the discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rairai

There should be a counter for how many times they just up and abandon a duty that way if they do it many times their mentor roulette becomes suspended. There should also be a report mentor function that needs to be reviewed so that if someone is abusive to other players as a mentor it should be taken away.

---

Just noticed this in the OP and I would like to point out that there is a counter like that. DF as a whole is suspended for 30 minutes after leaving a duty or not accepting a queue pop 3 times in a row. Now, we can have a conversation about whether 30 minutes is enough to deter people from leaving duties, but the rule has to be consistent for both mentors and non-mentors. Mentorship does not mean flagging yourself as someone to be excessively punished and abused, as much as the player base would like to think so.

Additionally, mentors can already be reported and have their mentor status revoked.

I'm not sure what fixes people expect at this point. Regardless of what rewards this system provides, mentors who end up in extreme trials are still going to tell you to do it unsynced or use the PF because that's how most people do them. It's teaching you about the in game culture and etiquette. Just because you don't like the advice doesn't mean it's invalid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

Then why you still complaining here?

---

All is simple. Problem is identified, and I want to discuss it. Why do you call this a complaint?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

And just cause YOU a 1 (one) single person will listen to other players explaining mechanics or other advises this is simply not the case most of the time. Usual response is the ''Dont tell me how to play'' or ''Im doing this blind dont ruin it for me''.

---

Perhaps I should say that you’re just not lucky with the sprouts, like me with the mentors, and this is a subjective view. But, since we communicate freely here, as I said above, there is still a problem. Lack of communication and interaction. If being a mentor is so hard, why make good people suffer?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

So if the mentor cant help because of language barrier, are they a bad mentor?

---

Usually, the game mechanics are fairly easy to explain. And, of course, this can be done without words like "idiots" etc. This is not about a language barrier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

Report them when you see them on act. Sure everytime you meet one or get one in your game it ruins it for you, but its 1 in 100 or more games. You can live with one bad duty and move on after reporting, what you being mad about it will do? Make you enjoy the game less and have a bad mood. And I'm not saying people have the right to be rude or something, I'm just saying, report/blacklist and move on.

---

Read the previous posts, please. This thread is not about reporting to GM’s, this thread is about people who are the mentors, but do not match their role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

Now, we can have a conversation about whether 30 minutes is enough to deter people from leaving duties

---

The increase in the fine will exacerbate the situation when the player, having fallen into a toxic group, wishes to leave it. Now this already presents a problem.
I 'm not sure extending the fine is a good idea, and that 's not what we 're talking about in this topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoranRigel

The subject of our conversation is not that mentors cannot help by the fault (real or imaginary) of players, but that the mentoring system provokes mentors to take game achievements and behave toxic, which is fundamentally contrary to the rules of the game.
Please read previous messages in the discussion.

---

No it doesn't. Again. No. It. Does. Not. That is flat out wrong. Correlation does not equal causation. If you want to try to prove that there being mentor achievements causes toxic mentors, you're gonna need to show some evidence. Sorry, your anecdotal evidence does not count. You are the one making the claim, you have to provide the evidence for it.

For a lot of people complaining saying mentor system should be abolished, they think mentors who leave extreme trials without a word or who let sprouts know that if they want to clear an EX trial, it's a lot easier and far faster to put up a party finder and they can do it unsynced is toxic? Perfectly valid and viable suggestion since most just want to clear and not do it synced specifically. I've seen as presented as evidence over and over and over again in these types of threads. Leaving a duty and taking a 30 minute penalty because you know the fight is just gonna be a huge waste of time when it is synced with a random party and only an hour to clear and making no progress or getting a clear is not toxic behavior.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RajNish

Read the previous posts, please. This thread is not about reporting to GM’s, this thread is about people who are the mentors, but do not match their role.

---

Ok, in your own words, what should a mentor be?


Here's what I've said before over a year ago in another thread:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thamorian

THIS IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! This is so far off the mark that you are in China when you should be in New York!

SE did not make savage raiding a requirement to be a mentor. SE made mentor system to help low level players learn the game at a basic level. Basic rotations, general questions, and stuff like character config and system config. Novice Network is filled with new players still progressing through the game starting at level 1. The "New Adventurer" status is applied to all players who have less than 168 hours of play time and have not completed the quest The Far Edge of Fate, not players at end game raiding. Just because you have some twisted idea of what a mentor is supposed to be does not make it true.


No they aren't. The average mentor have the same gameplay skill as the non-mentor. You just have such a biased preconceived notion that mentors should be great at the game that when you run into a bad one, you notice the crown and take notice of it more. I'm sure you ran into a bunch of mentors who played just fine but you didn't notice they had a mentor crown on or you don't remember them because they played their role adequately so there was no noteworthy reason to remember them.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thamorian

For a lot of people complaining saying mentor system should be abolished, they think mentors who leave extreme trials without a word or who let sprouts know that if they want to clear an EX trial, it's a lot easier and far faster to put up a party finder and they can do it unsynced is toxic?

---

I completed Garuda Ex synced on the 6th day of my game. There was a mentor in the group. He was a great guy. After the first wipe, he briefly told what to do. The second time we felt the mechanics. The third time, he said: "Great! We can do it!" And we did.

This guy was a good mentor. He correctly directed people and got the result. First, he was friendly. Second, he saw that we were completely new, but that did not stop him. He helped us, put the marks and explained the features of the phases.

As you can see, I have someone to compare with people who leave Titania normal after the first wipe or initiate a vote to abandon Labyrinth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thamorian

Ok, in your own words, what should a mentor be?

---

This is a player who likes to help beginners. He is experienced and polite, can explain mechanics if necessary, without insults, trolling, shaming or other aggressive actions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RajNish

I completed Garuda Ex synced on the 6th day of my game. There was a mentor in the group. He was a great guy. After the first wipe, he briefly told what to do. The second time we felt the mechanics. The third time, he said: "Great! We can do it!" And we did.

This guy was a good mentor. He correctly directed people and got the result. First, he was friendly. Second, he saw that we were completely new, but that did not stop him. He helped us, put the marks and explained the features of the phases.

As you can see, I have someone to compare with people who leave Titania normal after the first wipe or initiate a vote to abandon Labyrinth.



This is a player who likes to help beginners. He is experienced and polite, can explain mechanics if necessary, without insults, trolling, shaming or other aggressive actions.

---

So.. How does ex content fall into helping beginners? That is not beginner content.

Also, Garuda ex is the easiest of the ex fights now, since you can basically just burn her even synced.

And for a mentor to be any of those things, the people they are teaching have to listen. Which seems to be a rare occurrence these days. Like a super creeper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

So.. How does ex content fall into helping beginners? That is not beginner content.

Also, Garuda ex is the easiest of the ex fights now, since you can basically just burn her even synced.

---

Like I said, I was a newbie, like most of this group. This is more complex ARR content that challenges the player. No one can prohibit players from doing this content at the current level. Or force them do it unsynced. Honestly, ARR Ex's still good enough if you make them synchronized. Try to do all of them with minimal allowable item level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And for a mentor to be any of those things, the people they are teaching have to listen. Which seems to be a rare occurrence these days. Like a super creeper.

---

I will ask you the same question that I have seen here many times. Why do you remember only bad players and don’t remember those who listened and successfully played with you? Because I saw a lot of accusations here that we blame the mentors, but blaming new players, apparently, are the norm. Judging by this, I see two groups of unhappy people who suffer from each other. Are the crown and mount worth such suffering?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RajNish

Like I said, I was a newbie, like most of this group. This is more complex ARR content that challenges the player. No one can prohibit players from doing this content at the current level. Or force them do it unsynced. Honestly, ARR Ex's still good enough if you make them synchronized. Try to do all of them with minimal allowable item level.



I will ask you the same question that I have seen here many times. Why do you remember only bad players and don’t remember those who listened and successfully played with you? Because I saw a lot of accusations here that we blame the mentors, but blaming new players, apparently, are the norm. Judging by this, I see two groups of unhappy people who suffer from each other. Are the crown and mount worth such suffering?

---

No, I dont really think the mount is worth it, nor do I wear the crown, despite having the knowledge to do so. I do remember most obscure mechanics in most fights.

Also, I'm not blaming new players, I'm blaming players who don't respond to advice and mess up the same mechanics over and over again, no matter how simple they are, without saying anything or responding to "does anyone need help or need a specific mechanic explained"

And I remember both the good and the bad. There's just a lot more bad than good, and a lot of mediocre in between.

Q: Mentor roulette is totally useless and needs rework
A: It certainly needs rework, but it certainly does help in filling spots for old contents. Mentors quitting isn't good, but without the roulette ppl would have to wait eternally before realizing that the content is pretty much impossible to get into without partyfinder/unsync.

Q: Then why need mount, just let people who actually want to help do it.
A: There's just not enough people, and reward attracts people. One important point is, it's not ALWAYS bad people who are attracted to rewards. Some people (many people) actually do their work and deserve the reward. The game is selling, we have more sprouts than ever, we need more than volunteers to keep these sprouts from waiting forever. I don't really understand why people have to be disdained just because they work for the sake of a reward. Generalization much.

Q: Some mentors are awful! They're not helping at all!
A: Bad luck. They might be impatient, they might simply have bad day, you might be the one having bad day that everyone looks toxic in your eyes, the party might be just way too horrible to cope with. Idk there's just way too many possibilities it's pretty much impossible to just assume that the person is simply "awful". You can't really do anything about that. That's just what community is. You don't always get awesome teachers in your school either.

Q: Mentors are always silent I don't even understand why they're even there.
A: I don't know how it is in NA and EU, but in JP servers speaking our your opinion comes with a risk. We answer when people ask, but aside from that, we get people accusing you for ruining their first-time fun, spoilers, belittling sprouts by saying that they're not ready (when they're actually not ready). Being proactive is called nosy. Being honest is called harassment. "Speaking out" isn't as easy as you think it is.


I might be an outlier here I'm actually doing the mentor roulette for the sake of the mount. I don't hate sprouts, I would try my best to explain whatever I know if people actually want to know (more skilled player = easier life after all). I don't really want to waste my time explaining things to people who don't really want to learn. Then again people who actually want to learn usually google everything themselves. Potential people don't really need mentors. People using NN are mostly people who don't really care about understanding the contents; they simply want the clear flag. Personally I don't understand how carrying these people could be considered "helpful". That's not my definition of "guiding". If there's anything people need to learn about the game, it's that they actually need to "want to learn" and "understand" to be better. The system doesn't support my definition, so I stopped caring.

Hope this opinion helps. Have a nice day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I'm blaming players who don't respond to advice and mess up the same mechanics over and over again, no matter how simple they are, without saying anything or responding to "does anyone need help or need a specific mechanic explained"

---

I met mentors who did almost the same thing. They killed the group with large pulls as a tanks, seeing that healer is a beginner and has a bad gear. They did not say a word about the mechanics of the second boss in Ala Mhigo for example, when people asked "Help!". Or were constantly in AOE, just because they so cool. And, of course, as DPS they pulled the boss first, before the tank.

Therefore, any player, who does not cooperate, can't be called a good and pleasant player. One question remains unanswered. Why do these people continue to be mentors if they do the same as ordinary bad players.

Thank you for your reply, but I see some controversial points here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crescence

The game is selling, we have more sprouts than ever, we need more than volunteers to keep these sprouts from waiting forever.

---

And, after they receive their portion of toxicity, someone will tell them: "Bad luck. Simply bad day. You can't really do anything about that. That's just what community is".

Sorry, but... what? Seems, in this case they would prefer another game, where they can do at least something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crescence

Being proactive is called nosy. Being honest is called harassment. "Speaking out" isn't as easy as you think it is.

---

Why you and all these people become a mentor if so intimidated? Why continue? There is nothing wrong with politely telling the truth. By the way, the words: "Sorry, but I'm not sure that we can do this without training" is not an insult. Do what you must, and come what may.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crescence

Then again people who actually want to learn usually google everything themselves.

---

You can watch the guide many times and understand nothing until you go through 3-10 wipes and understand how you dealing with mechanics and how your group dealing with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thamorian

No it doesn't. Again. No. It. Does. Not. That is flat out wrong. Correlation does not equal causation. If you want to try to prove that there being mentor achievements causes toxic mentors, you're gonna need to show some evidence.

---

Evidence is received by the GM when my party members regularly send reports. Unfortunately, the current “add to blacklist” system does not guarantee that I will not get into the dungeon with these people again. And no, your emotional statements and depreciation do not add credibility to your words.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crescence

A: There's just not enough people, and reward attracts people. One important point is, it's not ALWAYS bad people who are attracted to rewards. Some people (many people) actually do their work and deserve the reward. The game is selling, we have more sprouts than ever, we need more than volunteers to keep these sprouts from waiting forever. I don't really understand why people have to be disdained just because they work for the sake of a reward. Generalization much.

---

Don't consider me arrogant, but my gaming experience allows me to compare different gaming systems. In those games where no awards are relied upon to help newbies, I have seen much less toxicity. I can assume that authority, albeit expressed in symbols - an exclusive mount, achievements, a pixel crown, a honorary title "mentor" - has a negative impact on young immature minds.

The authority corrupt and gives a perceived sense of impunity, especially when there is a tacit indulgence of the existing order in the gaming community.

As has been repeatedly mentioned here, the absence of special awards or pixel crown in no way prevents the provision of assistance to newbies. But the aggressive resistance of those for whom this pixel crown is extremely important speaks eloquently for itself.

Help must be selfless. If this is not so, we get what we get: aggressive, toxic and not helping players who compensate for their own inferiority at the expense of others.

Honestly, the mentors I've encountered have been some of the meanest players in the game.

I met many new players/sprouts that are disrespectfull, non communicativ, arrogant and destructiv. So what ? My personal expierence defines a whole group of people ?
The mount is not a reward for the mentor its for playing many dutys. All rewards need a lot of dutys.
Next thing is helping is voluntary. Its not a duty for mentor to help - the mentor can help if he wishes. No player can demand help. The viewpoint that a mentor have to help is absolut nonesense.
The argument with "mentor was mean" is a straw man argumemt and absolut unrelated to the mentor system. Toxic player are always toxic with or without such a title. Report such behavior - done.

So can someone remind the SPROUTS to not respond with 'you don't pay my sub' to NOT IGNORE MENTORS WHEN TELLING THEM MECHANICS?

You all like to dunk on Mentors, bad mouth them, and whine... but do you think that mentors might be a tad fed up with the lazy and snide attitudes that have been running rampant from the other side of the fence as well? That a LOT of mentors have just stopped caring as a result of the rash of Sprouts that use jump potions and don't even ATTEMPT to learn their classes or expect the carry or want a 'how to' in the middle of a dungeon/mid-ex fight?

Please. This goes both ways and I'm tired of the constant 'Mentors are bad, WAAAAAAAH!' Saddle up and do your own homework before you just throw everything at the mentor system whole-sale.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sesera

https://i.imgur.com/OeW6FpH.png

Seems like reminder of what mentors are expected is needed.

---

So i read expected not have to. Maybe that picture is wrong or old but its exactly as i said. When you can provide help then do and be example of good behavior. Not you have to help if not you should be expelled and be punished.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thamorian

...There are several thousand people who have unlocked mentor, both who do and don't wear the crown. You hear of what? DOZENS of mentors who are problematic? Um, ok, yeah it's a MAJOR problem. /s

This thread is not showing an illustration, it's showing an illusion, a few loud mouths who complain loudly because they met one bad mentor who left an impression and their friends told them or they read that all mentors are bad, giving a magnifying effect...

---

^ Exactly this. Adding on to your point: Those few loudmouth people complaining are trying to push massive regulation change (more constraints) on all Mentors because of the negative actions of a small percentage of bad actors. In fact, people stopped wearing the crown because overall public image of Mentors was ruined, also by that small percentage of bad actors.

Almost NOBODY describes FF14 community as being full of toxic people. It's usually the contrary. Almost everyone in the game is patient and helps their fellow players. Some wear crowns and some don't. This "Bad Mentor" crap is not a widespread or major problem, otherwise FF14 would not have the aforementioned good reputation.

It is also quite contradictory to say that mentors are only out for the mount. If it really would be like that, then why do only around 1.3% active public characters have Astrope? (source: ffxivcollect) Given the many complaints about bad mentors and that they only do the roulette for the achievements, that percentage must be higher. There are tons of mentors out there, the majority even with deactivated crown, yet seeing Astrope is incredibly rare. I won't deny that people might rush for mentor status because of the NN, as it is considered as a general chat by many. I also won't debate that many probably like the name decoration. But saying mentors are only out for the achievements & loot must be not correct, otherwise I would see all the mentors out there riding that mount. Heck, I've seen even more TEA weapons around, and the savage community is considered 'small'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Honestly, the mentors I've encountered have been some of the meanest players in the game.

---

The same situation. Only a few were really good. But, rather, this is an exception that confirms the pattern. Actually, this discussion confirms it too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsalmaveth

Saddle up and do your own homework before you just throw everything at the mentor system whole-sale.

---

Why so aggressive? Yes, bad players happen. They probably also have bad days. If we talk about homework, it will be useful to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

Almost NOBODY describes FF14 community as being full of toxic people. It's usually the contrary.

---

You can easily find and read "Community for fans of Square Enix's popular MMORPG "Final Fantasy XIV Online" on Reddit. Thread "Why does no one police mentors?" for example, almost 600 comments from "happy" and "thankful" people, 2 years ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RajNish

You can easily find and read "Community for fans of Square Enix's popular MMORPG "Final Fantasy XIV Online" on Reddit. Thread "Why does no one police mentors?" for example, almost 600 comments from "happy" and "thankful" people, 2 years ago.

---

1. 600 comments =/= 600 people.

2. Are you trying to say all 600 comments are from people agreeing there is a problem with Mentors? By that logic, you can look at thread we are in right now and say "There are 10 pages worth of "happy" and "thankful" people" Flawed rationale.

3. LOL! The top two comments of that thread you reference "Why does no one police mentors?", with over 150 upvotes each, basically tell the OP that "this is the way it is" and report those players at the Support Desk. You actually have to scroll for a long time to find any post actually agreeing that SE needs to do something extra to police Mentors. It's mostly just people anecdotally complaining. So...bad example doesn't help your argument much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsalmaveth

So can someone remind the SPROUTS to not respond with 'you don't pay my sub' to NOT IGNORE MENTORS WHEN TELLING THEM MECHANICS?

You all like to dunk on Mentors, bad mouth them, and whine... but do you think that mentors might be a tad fed up with the lazy and snide attitudes that have been running rampant from the other side of the fence as well? That a LOT of mentors have just stopped caring as a result of the rash of Sprouts that use jump potions and don't even ATTEMPT to learn their classes or expect the carry or want a 'how to' in the middle of a dungeon/mid-ex fight?

Please. This goes both ways and I'm tired of the constant 'Mentors are bad, WAAAAAAAH!' Saddle up and do your own homework before you just throw everything at the mentor system whole-sale.

---

But mentors most of the time are bad and sprouts that level skip are alts that actually raid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RajNish

Why so aggressive? Yes, bad players happen. They probably also have bad days. If we talk about homework, it will be useful to you.

---

Maybe because of this entire thread, and the many before, repeatedly thrashing mentors without possibly looking at the sprouts who have bad attitudes is enough to set my ire on point. Y'all need to stop.

And no, not all skip-potion users are 'raiders on alts'... people throwing out the 'you don't pay my sub' or whine about being told how to play by mentors just wanting to actually get the ex-duty they got thrown into in the roulette done are vets. A lot of this is just passing the buck and throwing blame without looking in the mirror. I'm being a tad bit curt and short, sure... but it's COMPLETELY warranted because this is one-sided finger-pointing. 'Only mentors having bad days can be bad' is what is being said... if a sprout has a bad day and cops attitude... oh well. The mentors have to suck it up and smile, right? That's what it means to wear the crown. Just take it, right? RIGHT?

NAAAAAAAH. I'm not up with that. Mentors can say enough and back out of a duty. No, they shouldn't be abusive and if you see one being ABUSIVE... report them. But they are not there to be forced into things, either. You have a report system for ANY player that behaves over the line, but ANY player has the right to leave an instance, duty, etc that they do not want to be in or that is undesirable for them past a point. They are punished for it with a lockout. That's the punishment the devs have decided is 'right' for doing so. That's it. End of story. There isn't any need to do more than that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

3. LOL! The top two comments of that thread you reference "Why does no one police mentors?", with over 150 upvotes each, basically tell the OP that "this is the way it is" and report those players at the Support Desk. You actually have to scroll for a long time to find any post actually agreeing that SE needs to do something extra to police Mentors. It's mostly just people anecdotally complaining. So...bad example doesn't help your argument much.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsalmaveth

That's it. End of story. There isn't any need to do more than that.

---

This example is just as good as this discussion. Here was rudeness, depreciation, ridicule, transitions to the individual.
I suspect that the authors of these wonderful comments are just fans of pixel crowns, who are well aware of how you can insult people so as not to get banned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoranRigel

This example is just as good as this discussion. Here was rudeness, depreciation, ridicule, transitions to the individual.
I suspect that the authors of these wonderful comments are just fans of pixel crowns, who are well aware of how you can insult people so as not to get banned.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoranRigel

A language barrier as an excuse for toxic behavior and rule-breaking? Hmm... I 'm afraid that 's a weak argument.

---

And thats on taking things out of context :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

And thats on taking things out of context :)

---

A new attempt to justify rudeness? I 'm sorry, but no. Bad attempt.

You did the same to me, you took my answer out of context so I did the same to you :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

You did the same to me, you took my answer out of context so I did the same to you :)

---

Transition to personalities, abeuses.
Thank you, your comments add to the clarity of the problem for which we are gathered here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoranRigel

Transition to personalities, abeuses.
Thank you, your comments add to the clarity of the problem for which we are gathered here.

---

The thing is with you and your friend, you dont actually listen to what any of us have to say unless its "OMG mentors are so bad and evil!!!!!", each one of us trying to make points on how its not a one wya road gets absolutely dismissed by you and your "evidence". So how I could talk to you in the kindest way possible, but if I dont agree with you or your point of view youre not gonna like me either way no matter how I present my point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

The thing is with you and your friend, you dont actually listen to what any of us have to say unless its "OMG mentors are so bad and evil!!!!!", each one of us trying to make points on how its not a one wya road gets absolutely dismissed by you and your "evidence". So how I could talk to you in the kindest way possible, but if I dont agree with you or your point of view youre not gonna like me either way no matter how I present my point.

---

Made a typo and Im on mobile but should say "I could talk to you" without the how. Not that you care

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

LOL! <…> It's mostly just people anecdotally complaining. So...bad example doesn't help your argument much.

---

One of the types of toxic discussion is the depreciation of the interlocutor's arguments, taking words out of context and mistakenly interpreting them, not paying attention to facts that contradict your idea. You have done this many times and continue to do the same.

The evidences that the SE clearly indicated the mentor’s qualities was given here several times. But you rejected the arguments one by one, including screenshots of the in-game message that was posted by other discussion participants. This is an exhaustive illustration of the fact that you, like some of my other opponents, do not accept constructive dialogue.

By the way, if we talk not only about gaming, but also about Internet etiquette, yours and my points of view may not fundamentally coincide for many reasons, but this is not a reason for passive and active verbal aggression. I hope that you can solve this problem in the future and successfully socialize in the communities of which you strive to be a part.

As for the reports, as I said above, this is not enough. GMs cannot and do not have the authority to change a system that has been working with overt violations for several years. So the appeals to developers with the request to change and modify the mentoring system appear and will appear on this forum, whether you like it or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsalmaveth

Maybe because of this entire thread, and the many before, repeatedly thrashing mentors without possibly looking at the sprouts who have bad attitudes is enough to set my ire on point. Y'all need to stop.

The mentors have to suck it up and smile, right? That's what it means to wear the crown. Just take it, right? RIGHT? NAAAAAAAH.

---

Do you hope you will be understood, using Caps Lock? Did you know that in many cases such a text is recognized as a scream?

Unfortunately, to understand screaming is very difficult. It’s hard for me to trust your words, because they have a lot of negative emotions and there is no desire to solve a problem or offer solutions, on your part at least.

If you are tired of new players who ignore your help and mentor’s role, maybe something goes wrong?

And finally. Let me remind you that this forum is a free discussion platform where players can express opinion in a polite and correct manner and discuss what is important to them. Therefore, I will not stop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

The thing is with you and your friend, you dont actually listen to what any of us have to say unless its "OMG mentors are so bad and evil!!!!!", each one of us trying to make points on how its not a one wya road gets absolutely dismissed by you and your "evidence". So how I could talk to you in the kindest way possible, but if I dont agree with you or your point of view youre not gonna like me either way no matter how I present my point.

---

I 've read your point.
I understood her as an excuse for an abuse from mentors and an attempt to shift attention from this problem.
I disagree with that approach. Please do not change or distort my words, it is a bad tactic to conduct discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoranRigel

I 've read your point.
I understood her as an excuse for an interview from mentors and an attempt to shift attention from this problem.
I disagree with that approach. Please do not change or distort my words, it is a bad tactic to conduct discussion.

---

Thats what you do thought. You took my words out of context and changed them so it looked like I was saying its okay to be toxic while trying to only make a point how hard it is to help people with language barrier. It doesnt feel great in this end too. Since in no where have I stated its okay for ANYONE to be abusive or toxic more so being against it as I have stated so you taking my words out of my mouth and twisting them into something bad when theyre not is also abusive you know?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

Thats what you do thought. You took my words out of context and changed them so it looked like I was saying its okay to be toxic while trying to only make a point how hard it is to help people with language barrier.

---

The difference between "insult" and "overcoming the language barrier" is huge.
In this topic, we discuss the insults and unacceptable behavior of so-called "mentors," whose hamstring behavior outside the game rules is unacceptable to justify, including the arguments you used.

If your dissatisfaction concerns other aspects, you, of course, like anyone present here, can have a separate topic to discuss them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoranRigel

The difference between "insult" and "overcoming the language barrier" is huge.
In this topic, we discuss the insults and unacceptable behavior of so-called "mentors," whose hamstring behavior outside the game rules is unacceptable to justify, including the arguments you used.

If your dissatisfaction concerns other aspects, you, of course, like anyone present here, can have a separate topic to discuss them.

---

Even if its ''off-topic'' doesnt mean I cant include it in my answer to someone as an point of view even if it has no meaning of being toxic. So taking it as it would be toxic or i say its okay to be a-hole in that aspect is wrong. So yes even if this topic if for talking about toxic mentors not EVERY point it made about it, off-topics happen and in that case reading the context of the message is quite important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoom

Even if its ''off-topic'' doesnt mean I cant include it in my answer to someone as an point of view even if it has no meaning of being toxic.

---

You are again trying to move the discussion away from the main topic.
I have to repeat: here we discuss unacceptable behavior of "mentors" and numerous problems caused by the existing system of mentoring.
Do you have anything to say on the merits?
If not, I am not inclined to continue this discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoranRigel

You are again trying to move the discussion away from the main topic.
I have to repeat: here we discuss unacceptable behavior of "mentors" and numerous problems caused by the existing system of mentoring.
Do you have anything to say on the merits?
If not, I am not inclined to continue this discussion.

---

Nice way to dodge a bullet of being dismissive :) Im also not inclined to not be belittled or my words being taken the wrong way but here we are.