Well, they actually did it, the absolute madmen

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Originally Posted by DocQuixotic

I hate to be the WoW refugee here but this is pretty concerning. In modern WoW there is a much-hated feature called LFR, which was intended to help people who struggled with the game experience the story of the raids and see the sights. It's a good idea on paper... but...

LFR's rewards were basically just as good as the rewards from other difficulties of raiding, and so people who didn't struggle with the game at all would end up playing LFR because you can get the best rewards for the least amount of effort. Instead of being something for accessibility LFR became the default raiding option and ended up making it harder for people who want to play at higher difficulties because everyone just did LFR for their instant rewards.

I'm aware that this is currently just a solo-only feature, but I'm concerned that Square might try to replicate it on the group level, which would have the same effects.

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Y'know what's neat? Hardly any of what you just said is true. Cool huh?

LFR is a matchmaker-friendly form of raiding in WoW and it offers rewards at an item level lower than normal mode raiding. In Legion the loot tables were actually completely different from normal and above raiding. Actually, every endgame activity rewards better stuff than LFR. So best rewards for no effort? No. Some rewards for doing content? Yes.

And LFR isn't for people who "struggled with the game." It's for people who don't or can't raid with a regular group so they can at least see the inside of the zone and meet some of the bosses and finish the game's story. Helps for gearing up alts too.

tl;dr: get over yourself.

Why is this such a contended topic? If the player doesn't learn the job during solo play, they'll learn during party play. Which is even better, since the other party members can actually help them. Or are you guys just expecting that everyone in the game already mastered every little thing? Have you even leveled an alt, where you blast through content and doesn't quite grasp the job yet? It happens to everyone, which means bad players are everywhere.

It's a multiplayer game. There will be people of all skills in the game. Some people will play really bad. No use getting angry anyways. Just try helping them a bit and it usually works fine for everybody. :/

I would choose the very easy option because those battles are really boring and long. Just wasn’t to hurry it up so I can unlock the good end game stuff.

When I saw the title I know a bunch of elitists would complain and whine thinking the playerbase would get worse. Hate to tell you it won't. The fact that story skip and level boosts exist already made going through content moot involving skill as is.

The bad players will continue being bad regardless of this change. Personally, I found solo duties annoying especially when you play multiple characters and having to run them through MSQ. I for one welcome this change.

I’m reading through this thread and see people talking about players who only play this game for the story, crafting, gathering, housing, RP, and other scenarios that aren’t very combat heavy and how this change would help those people out. But people saying this seem to be forgetting what the OP himself said, this lowers the overall skill of the community, and makes things harder for everyone in DF by worsening the experience due to lack of skill of your party members.

No matter what type of player you are, you will have to go through hardships in the MSQ, certain trials can be a pain if your party members are (let’s be honest) bad. Some that come to my mind are Lakshmi, Tsuyokomi, and the 3 in ShB, and these are just my experiences, I’m sure others have had bad experiences in other trials not mentioned. This change only compounds this issue by worsening the overall skill of the playerbase by allowing access to these hyper easy instanced battles that you don’t require you too think or devise strategies, and this makes players who choose those easy options complacent with their lack of skill. Now this wouldn’t be a issue in a single player game as only you choose how to play it, but in a multiplayer environment, that kind of complacency will, as the OP said, spill over into MP content and overall worsen the experience due to the parties lack of skill.

This is a terrible addition to FF14 for my reasons listed above, and potentially ruins the experience for other people who try and practice at thier job because they had to before this, and for those who desire a challenge, all because of a few selfish people who would rather be guided through the game on a leash than work hard to master a trial or dungeon, everyone must pull their weight in content or else everyone suffers. This game expects basic competence for most content, the game is easy as is, yet this change just makes everything worse in DF.

I’ll reiterate something I said before a bit differently as a closing statement. This is a multiplayer game that focuses heavily on teamwork, not a single player game, if a few people slack off during content than everyone suffers, as it is rude and inconsiderate your fellow player. I’m sorry if I myself came off as rude or inconsiderate, but this makes me frustrated how people forget that this is a multiplayer game where everyone must pull their weight for content to run smoothly, not a single player game where you have more free reign to play as you please.

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Originally Posted by E4EO

But people saying this seem to be forgetting what the OP himself said, this lowers the overall skill of the community, and makes things harder for everyone in DF by worsening the experience due to lack of skill of your party members.

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This assumes that there is a substantial group of people who start as bad/less than mediocre players, but make significant improvement due to set difficulty of the solo duties (rather than overcoming them with "brute force" via repeated attempts and increased echo, or giving up on them/the game as a whole). I don't know this metric - and I doubt anyone besides SE does - but personally, I don't believe this group is big enough to justify the concerns presented in this thread. In other words, I don't think there are enough people who truly become notably better players by being forced such in the solo duties.

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Originally Posted by E4EO

This is a terrible addition to FF14 for my reasons listed above, and potentially ruins the experience for other people who try and practice at thier job because they had to before this, and for those who desire a challenge, all because of a few selfish people who would rather be guided through the game on a leash than work hard to master a trial or dungeon, everyone must pull their weight in content or else everyone suffers. This game expects basic competence for most content, the game is easy as is, yet this change just makes everything worse in DF.

I’ll reiterate something I said before a bit differently as a closing statement. This is a multiplayer game that focuses heavily on teamwork, not a single player game, if a few people slack off during content than everyone suffers, as it is rude and inconsiderate your fellow player. I’m sorry if I myself came off as rude or inconsiderate, but this makes me frustrated how people forget that this is a multiplayer game where everyone must pull their weight for content to run smoothly, not a single player game where you have more free reign to play as you please.

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People with disabilities are not selfish. They just would like to play the game and enjoy it. Nor are people who play the game and prefer to be more solo. Or prefer crafting and gathering or RP and would like to see the storyline. I mean, FFXIV is actually renown for the story aspect of the game.

I'm not sure why you think this change is going to affect anything. The Echo was already a thing, IS already a thing right now, at this very moment. This just gives players an option after failing.

And they are doing it right now, and will in the future without so much as a 'by your leave'.

OP here.

Does anyone else remember the 2.0 days?

Getting to Brayflox and it being a literal weeding-out duty, where you either improved or didn't progress.

Remember Titan and Garuda, where you were either competent or stuck?

Back then, you had no choice but to be at least competent. You had to read your tooltips and understand your job. If you're a UK/EU player like me, you'll remember the HORRIBLE latency we had too.

And yet, we did it.

And we continued to do it.

And then Steps Of Faith arrived.

And all of a sudden, people couldn't do mechanics, didn't know how to do their jobs, and cried that they couldn't clear it.

I managed to pug it on day 2, and I'm an absolutely terrible player, who more often than not healed using Cleric Stance AND played on PS3.

But enough people cried, and instead of saying "well, all these people have cleared it, maybe the issue isn't the duty?" they nerfed it.

And people STILL can't clear it today.

Same with Chrysalis, IIRC. I was in a party this week that had no first timers who STILL didn't make the DPS check, nor soaked meteors properly.

There has been an ever increasing number of bad players running alongside numerous nerfs to battles, which does nothing to increase the skill level, and everything to lower it.

And then we end up in Shinryu Normal, and people still can't clear it.

And then we end up in Hades, and people can't clear it.

There is an obvious problem here, and the solution is NOT making it easier/faster to get thru duties, whether solo or party.

The solution is to encourage players to be better.

Also, speaking of disabilities, here's a video of a kid playing with his feet, at a level most current players can only dream of. Don't use disabilities as an excuse.

https://youtu.be/ogCRNvghbiw

So long as it stays in solo content who really cares? A lot of the solo fights are just boring and not even comparable to group content; there have been a few instances where I wanted it to end not because it was hard (never was) but because it was boring.

I would love to see some difficult group content outside raiding; but it's unlikely to ever happen.

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No matter what type of player you are, you will have to go through hardships in the MSQ, certain trials can be a pain if your party members are (let’s be honest) bad. Some that come to my mind are Lakshmi, Tsuyokomi, and the 3 in ShB, and these are just my experiences, I’m sure others have had bad experiences in other trials not mentioned. This change only compounds this issue by worsening the overall skill of the playerbase by allowing access to these hyper easy instanced battles that you don’t require you too think or devise strategies, and this makes players who choose those easy options complacent with their lack of skill. Now this wouldn’t be a issue in a single player game as only you choose how to play it, but in a multiplayer environment, that kind of complacency will, as the OP said, spill over into MP content and overall worsen the experience due to the parties lack of skill.

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As a low-skilled player myself, solo duties will certainly not make me a better or worse player; if I have been improving at all so far in group content, it would've been by doing said "easy-peasy roflolpewpew" dungeons/trials. Contrary to popular tryharding belief, some people aren't bad a dungeons just for the "lulz" or because they "want" or to laugh at the other party members for having to put up with them. Yes, rotten apples exist, but as you - dear godlike-skilled player - will probably know, exceptions do exist on BOTH sides. As a story player, I couldn't care less about higher difficulty duties for which you guys are breaking out in cold sweat out of fear that "we" suddenly invade your holy sanctuary. Outside of roulette RNG and party disbanding/duty failing, you will see pure story players in the dungeons once. If they end up liking this form of content, I'm sure that many will try and improve as hardly anyone enjoys being a "burden" (even in an MMO). And maybe not even in every dungeon available.

Every once in awhile I get screwed by one of those instances in msq that has no benefit to heals whatsoever. This will come in handy. Sometimes I feel like the instance quests are only for Tanks and DPS.

This reminds me of that whole star fox zero thing, Only thing will help a player improve is personal desire that is all. People are overreacting.

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

OP here.

Does anyone else remember the 2.0 days?

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MMOs change. It's the way of things. Just like them, players need to learn to change and adapt as well.

I could spend all day here listing how EQ and EQ2 (the two MMOs I spent the most time in) went from hard as heck to "baby" in a few years. But I won't.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

I love how we as gamers seem to regress from the early days of Super Mario to today. Its hilarious.
I dont personally care how hard single player content is, but they also keep making dungeons and other multiplayer content easier and easier every patch. No good game design goes BACKWARDS in difficulty from beginning to end. FFXIV keeps doing this. With this new patch, there is ONE single fight for people who dont want faceroll content. ONE. Thats the absolute bare minimum of what you can do to cater to people who LIKE to press 1,2 and 3 in the right order. Everything else is purely catering to supercasuals, popotos and people who play tapper games on mobile phones as the peak of their ability. Its a disappointment.

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Eden Raids are hard as never especially savage, hades raid is also pretty hard, dungeons are not easier they are harder as well mobs hit a little more and there are more punishable mechanics at boss fights.
Latest alliance raid is so hard that people are actually dodging it, ealier raid is not easier either.

Maybe you just play better, i myself dont feel like it is any easier.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

I would choose the very easy option because those battles are really boring and long. Just wasn’t to hurry it up so I can unlock the good end game stuff.

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Same here. I just want to get it over with and move on with the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Im waiting for the 1 button consolidation of your whole classes kit that will automatically play itself

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That's basically roleplay duties. Your only job is to click click click and not stand in AOEs. Which is too much for some people still.

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

Also, speaking of disabilities, here's a video of a kid playing with his feet, at a level most current players can only dream of. Don't use disabilities as an excuse.

https://youtu.be/ogCRNvghbiw

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I reiterate, not everyone has the same disability. I'm glad that kid can play the game at that level, but NOT EVERYONE WITH A DISABILITY CAN DO THAT.

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

Also, speaking of disabilities, here's a video of a kid playing with his feet, at a level most current players can only dream of. Don't use disabilities as an excuse.

https://youtu.be/ogCRNvghbiw

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Boy it sure is lucky that all disabilities are the same. Otherwise this would sound unbelievably stupid.

Some of these solo instanced fights when you are 'at level' are not easy... this is why I try to be several levels above and well-geared before I go into most instanced solo battles. It isn't even about mechanics, especially with many job instanced battles, it's usually just a drawn out slugfest that's just not fun. Nobody likes dying time and time and time again, it becomes incredibly frustrating and some people will give up and walk away- some come back- some don't. Thus, I think it's a great option for players, especially those who just want to enjoy the story, level their jobs, and progress without a bunch of stress.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And yet we have people who complain about the difficulty of some of them. I can't recall them by name but I do distinctly recall some being telegraph city that even tested my abilities to dodge things at times, and I regularly play in content above normal mode.

We even get people complaining about having to play as Y'shtola because apparently reading three tooltip abilities was too much to ask for.

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I remember there were some complaints about Ranjit too. I think there was something with his last attack, and people didn't know if they had to defend or just bash into him.

This is only for solo content and good for people who want to experience the MSQ at their own desired pace. It shouldn't be a big deal.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

This is only for solo content and good for people who want to experience the MSQ at their own desired pace. It shouldn't be a big deal.

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It isn't. But people will complain about literally anything.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

It isn't. But people will complain about literally anything.

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Yeah, unfortunately that's how it is all the time in the forums. That and blowing things out of proportion, too.

Just throwing out my random opinion on this after reading this whole thread.

As a few people said on this thread, the option to make msq solo instance content will eventually bleed into df content and more.

With the way this game nerfs anything that gives a certain amount of players a hard time and complain about it, watch, it'll happen.

This is why games like this need more criticism than praise. A simple tutorial and hints on how to beat solo instance content is all you need if you keep getting beaten in them. Not an easy and very easy mode cop out that just defeats the purpose of the content's creation.

Sometimes I just feel bad for the people that make stuff like this, only for it to be undermined, nerfed or gutted in some way just for quick pleasing when there are clearly better options.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

Not an easy and very easy mode cop out that just defeats the purpose of the content's creation.

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The purpose of the main story quests is probably the story, which remains intact whether you facerolled it on your own or facerolled it by setting it to very easy.

They need to make autoplay, so you dont even need to press anything. Including one big cutscene with the story in it. Games should be like movies and for everyone, am I right fellas? Difficulty... phhft, this ain't 2008 nerds.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

They need to make autoplay, so you dont even need to press anything. Including one big cutscene with the story in it. Games should be like movies and for everyone, am I right fellas? Difficulty... phhft, this ain't 2008 nerds.

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After FFX it seems every FF game is more about CS than gameplay. Also once you finish MSQ there really isn't much to do in FF14 as endgame content. Outside of savage/ultimate there is no motivation for people to improve their skills. No reason to gate people for just wanting to complete the storyline. Leave the challenge to optional content or the lack of it...

Can they also add potato level in Ultimates? UwU..

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

The purpose of the main story quests is probably the story, which remains intact whether you facerolled it on your own or facerolled it by setting it to very easy.

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But what about the feel of victory in overcoming a challenge? Especially in MSQ? Wouldn't it just make playing through story feel more tedious and boring if there was really no challenge in defeating an enemy or set enemies and their mechanics?

Because if that's the case then the MSQ might as well be just a layer of cutscenes played out like a movie instead until you get to the part where you jump into the four-man dungeon, eight-man, trial or 24-man raid.

The whole point of those fights in MSQ, is for the player to feel like their a part of the world in-game and to personally give them the opportunity to face and overcome a challenge with also promoting immersion. Adding an easy and very easy mode would just make the whole experience leading up to that point pointless.

Simply adding a tutorial or a set of hints after a loss or two would help fix this problem easier then placing an easily abusive system like an easy and very easy mode option in the game.

Why don't you just let players play the way they want to bloody well play? Not a single person is holding a gun to anyone's head FORCING them to pick any of those options. Not. A. Single. Person. Those options are a version of the Echo that is already THERE for other things in the game (surprise!) and they're just adding it in here after the fact now. Oh-freakin-well? It's the solo content and it doesn't matter to anyone else except the person DOING it how THEY want to play it. At all. Not everyone enjoys the same things, obviously, or we wouldn't have all the arguments about 'skipping cutscenes', WOULD we? Some people hate long drawn out fights, other people enjoy the challenge. Some people love sitting through cut scenes for juicy story, other people hate it and want to get to the action NOW. You don't get to dictate what people do or don't, should or shouldn't, enjoy in this or any game.

Why ANYONE on these forums wants to sit here and WHINE about it is beyond me except their elitist tails are in a knot over other people somehow having fun in a way that doesn't match up to their standards. Get your panties out of of a bunch and deal with it. Seriously. This game has never been all about elitist high level darksouls-esque play. EVER. It has always been about open and welcoming play meant for as many people to come in and ENJOY it. If they want to broaden that field, great. Take your attitudes into Savage and Ultimate and keep it there. Leave it at the door when you exit the fights, too.

its the MSQ and has never stopped anyone before. what?

sure, you can argue that MSQ should be difficult. and gated. and only those with a thin bubble of superiority can truly appreciate and reap the rewards of their valiant efforts....



....but no- the MSQ really has NOT been challenging. so this addition is.... confusing, and wholly unnecessary. because franly.... the MSQ was never hard enough to block people to begin with. im sure most of us collectively would struggle to think of more than 10-15 solo instances with any higher than base challenge that the other required dungeons didnt already recycle 15 times. but we have it, so it's... whatever. big deal.



honestly, the most depressing thing about all this is... this just screams of gatekeeping. for a gate that doesnt exist. so you had to build one. and now that you did, you can point to it as an excuse to be passive aggressive, and otherwise torment people. As this community does. It's always something. Balmung vs Greg, Jump potions, WoW refugees, Crystal, and now this. I wonder how long before we get another new addition. We truly have had this conversation and the same points have been said by the same people several times now.

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Originally Posted by Tsalmaveth

[...]

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Hold on, little lady. Chill a bit...

Ready? Fine:

I am sure nobody here is "elitist" beyond the point of zero sympathy for players. But you don't seem to understand the underlying problems that come from that. I see it two-layered: The players that leave a fight/Vote abandon after one or two wipes; a general defeatist attitude that is spreading in the games I play like a virus to be harsh. As you figured it out, it's a game. Games, by defintion do not need a winner/loser scenario (e.g. a puzzle or Solitaire), but FF has one: Dying. But this is already connected to zero penalty: As WoL, we can not die like that, we do not lose EXP, we do not lose our equipment. It is literally a tiny bit of a drawback with an instant-retry.

As you say, it's a game, and if disabled people get stressed out by it, giving the advice of "staying away from the source of stress" is what every professional phsychologist would give. Or do you think those doctors are "haters" and "elitists", too?

The second problem is from a long-term perspective. You are going trough an instance that gives you bonusses. You get trough it. The same "solo content" - the MSQ - suddenly requires you a party with other players two quests later. Now what? Those dungeons have no such bonnusses and instant Echo, nor does the team of regular players want it to be happen. You are being thrown into the cold water now, and all these disabled, stressed and mentally unstable people are in serious danger of their health (apparently).

Now the problem turns over and your teammates are now "elitist" dudes that just want and should expect basic competence and any honest discussion is stalled because the "Super easy" fraction has the shield of being mentally ill (if real or not), and creating an unease situation for those normal players, some awkward from over political correctness in an environment like a Duty Finder in this game based around combat that should not happen. I am already walking on eggshells voicing my opinion here by doubting the mental state of the self-claimed disabled people here. Which is terrible and should not be a thing, but exactly this permanent Damocles' Sword of being offended causes people to silently kick people off duties, which in return is something causing "those darn elitist" threads to appear that mention mentall illness and how bad the community is for not catering and carrying everybody. I can shut down any critcisim towards me too by claiming things, (in fact: I have a very small form of authism, but it's about being orderly, e.g. shelves and my appartment^^), but I am not that kind of person.


Imagine you work with with vehicles. You can drive as much Automatic in your private car as you wish. But if your workplace has stick shift, you will be in trouble. And when your workmates call you out for missing your daily pensum because you stall your engine every 3 meters, you have to expect that kind of.


My mother btw. is actually mentally unstable. In the past 20 years she spent 3.5 years hospitalized because the medication need to be set up which takes months. Her hormones are probably so screwed due to the pills. The side effects were hours of crying, sitting there stoically and loss of job. She is now fine, medication has a lower dose now and she does not show any sort of defeatist attitude. When she plays some Tetris clone on her phone she sets it up to the fastest because that challenge actually helps her out.

So please consider all of this multi-layered problems here. The majority of the players are still normal and beat the game on Normal, have done so in the past 6 years. But now we create a 2-class system that will eventually merge into "my" Duty Finder groups, and then I can not say "Its just solo content" anymore. Because then it's Group Content.

Sincerely,
https://imgur.com/9mjol58.png

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

As you say, it's a game, and if disabled people get stressed out by it, giving the advice of "staying away from the source of stress" is what every professional phsychologist would give.

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Can I get a source on that? Like a study or something. Thanks.

Also, you seem to have made a lot of typos: You wouldn't happen to be dyslexic, would you? Apparently that's the only way to prove if someone is, so I thought I'd ask.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Can I get a source on that? Like a study or something. Thanks.

Also, you seem to have made a lot of typos: You wouldn't happen to be dyslexic, would you? Apparently that's the only way to prove if someone is, so I thought I'd ask.

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He’s making it up, if that was the case most therapists would tell people to quit their jobs, rather they help equip people to better deal and handle stress.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

He’s making it up, if that was the case most therapists would tell people to quit their jobs, rather they help equip people to better deal and handle stress.

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In my own experience as well (anecdotal, I know), confronting the stress is also something that get suggested, not avoiding it. Depending on the situation, of course.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

its the MSQ and has never stopped anyone before. what?

sure, you can argue that MSQ should be difficult. and gated. and only those with a thin bubble of superiority can truly appreciate and reap the rewards of their valiant efforts....



....but no- the MSQ really has NOT been challenging. so this addition is.... confusing, and wholly unnecessary. because franly.... the MSQ was never hard enough to block people to begin with. im sure most of us collectively would struggle to think of more than 10-15 solo instances with any higher than base challenge that the other required dungeons didnt already recycle 15 times. but we have it, so it's... whatever. big deal.



honestly, the most depressing thing about all this is... this just screams of gatekeeping. for a gate that doesnt exist. so you had to build one. and now that you did, you can point to it as an excuse to be passive aggressive, and otherwise torment people. As this community does. It's always something. Balmung vs Greg, Jump potions, WoW refugees, Crystal, and now this. I wonder how long before we get another new addition. We truly have had this conversation and the same points have been said by the same people several times now.

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I've seen people complain about the difficulty of several of the SB MSQ duties on the forums, actually (And to a lesser degree some of the ShB ones).

They're generally the ones that either have DPS checks and/or sensitive mechanics that cause you to instantly fail the duty if they're not handled properly.

I also don't think it's unreasonable for quest duties to demand some level of competence from players but in the end, I suppose it's not going to really affect me since I scarcely use the duty roulette anymore anyways.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

After FFX it seems every FF game is more about CS than gameplay. Also once you finish MSQ there really isn't much to do in FF14 as endgame content. Outside of savage/ultimate there is no motivation for people to improve their skills. No reason to gate people for just wanting to complete the storyline. Leave the challenge to optional content or the lack of it...

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As I said - yes, no reason to gate people, make it autoplay, this way everyone can enjoy story. I'm not even kidding, if you do it for disabled people, for story, make them press one button. Or someday even "very easy" will become to difficult.

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

I am sure nobody here is "elitist" beyond the point of zero sympathy for players.

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Have you READ any of this thread?

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Have you READ any of this thread?

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Its called having an opinion, not being an elitist. Besides, all we're trying to do is help point out the negative consequences adding a sudden easy mode into certain content can have on this video game overall.

FF14 is casual enough as it is, but randomly adding easy mode to content which only has so much of a challenge to it as it is just helps further lower the bar for the average player's level of gameplay.

Tutorials, hints and etc would be a better option than a sudden easy and easier mode just to get past content you personally don't like.

Like I said, none of us are trying to attack anybody, we just want to state our opinions and help the game become better. Because adding random "quick win" scenarios in a game just defeats the purpose of playing a game in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

Its called having an opinion, not being an elitist. Besides, all we're trying to do is help point out the negative consequences adding a sudden easy mode into certain content can have on this video game overall.

FF14 is casual enough as it is, but randomly adding easy mode to content which only has so much of a challenge to it as it is just helps further lower the bar for the average player's level of gameplay.

Tutorials, hints and etc would be a better option than a sudden easy and easier mode just to get past content you personally don't like.

Like I said, none of us are trying to attack anybody, we just want to state our opinions and help the game become better. Because adding random "quick win" scenarios in a game just defeats the purpose of playing a game in the first place.

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So don't use it. It's clearly not for you. But when you and others start in on the slippery slope arguments and trying to tell other people how they're allowed to enjoy the game, yeah... it's elitist. You may not like it, but that's what it is.