5.0 Dark knight request: Delirium rework

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

After swapping to DRK in TEA I still agree Delirium needs change. Like why did SE take the one part of WAR that as a former WAR main DETEST with a passion due to it basically killing the job into a meme at this point and place it into DRK? Like, WHY? Okay you gave us Bloodspiller, so what does that mean PLD is getting an IR equivalent next expansion for attonement?
I don't mind the flood/edge of shadow because its basically just like DAs spaming. The Delirium just... wtf.

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Careful, they can read that "Does that mean PLD is getting an IR equivalent next expansion for attonement?" as a question asked with so much excitement that it denotes universal and unequivocal praise for IR.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Careful, they can read that "Does that mean PLD is getting an IR equivalent next expansion for attonement?" as a question asked with so much excitement that it denotes universal and unequivocal praise for IR.

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-_-
If that happens I got a storage of alcohol ready.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

-_-
If that happens I got a storage of alcohol ready.

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And I will tip a glass with you in solidarity, though I do hope it won't come to that.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Careful, they can read that "Does that mean PLD is getting an IR equivalent next expansion for attonement?" as a question asked with so much excitement that it denotes universal and unequivocal praise for IR.

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To late for PLD. Resquiat and Holy Spam was the OG of IR. It's more accurate to say that WAR and DRK are copying PLD instead. But they're just pale imitations of PLD as this expansion PLD got a combo finisher this expansion to round it out.

I feel like WAR gets the bad rap for something it didn't even started. This is PLD fault. They started the spam, they just kept their mouths shut, and let poor old WAR take the blame. Some of them even join in on the blame saying how much they don't want to end up like WAR, knowing they're the reason.

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Originally Posted by Quri

To late for PLD. Resquiat and Holy Spam was the OG of IR. It's more accurate to say that WAR and DRK are copying PLD instead. But they're just pale imitations of PLD as this expansion PLD got a combo finisher this expansion to round it out.

I feel like WAR gets the bad rap for something it didn't even started. This is PLD fault. They started the spam, they just kept their mouths shut, and let poor old WAR take the blame. Some of them even join in on the blame saying how much they don't want to end up like WAR, knowing they're the reason.

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Players don't get to design the jobs themselves, the only possible influence we could have really had is in our reactions to what the developers gave us.

Warrior gets blamed because Warriors wouldn't shut up about fell cleave, while Paladins were comparatively very muted about Holy Spirit.

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Originally Posted by Quri

I feel like WAR gets the bad rap for something it didn't even started. This is PLD fault. They started the spam, they just kept their mouths shut, and let poor old WAR take the blame. Some of them even join in on the blame saying how much they don't want to end up like WAR, knowing they're the reason.

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It is WAR's fault. In HW, WAR started the burst spam meta with "Triple Berserk Fell Cleave" on a 90s timer. The devs gave the stamp of approval in StB by adding Inner Release for half price Fell Cleaves every 2 minutes that allowed for a "Sextuple Fell Cleave" burst alternating with the old "Triple Fell Cleave" burst now on a 60s timer. The 4.1 changes then came about due to complaints about how extremely variable (the random number of Crits, Direct Hits and Direct Crit Fell Cleaves in the bursts led to wildly fluctuating DpS even with the exact same rotation) WAR damage was.

PLD joined in on the spam burst and started with the most usable burst, but they did not create the meta.

2 days for the live letter, I personally have no hope about yoship addressing and solving this and probably this gonna be ignored until 6.0 but I wish I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by shao32

2 days for the live letter, I personally have no hope about yoship addressing and solving this and probably this gonna be ignored until 6.0 but I wish I'm wrong.

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tanks are least of there concerns probably.
last i heard 5.2 has a lot of RDM adjustment so i doubt tanks getting anything besides maybe -insert defensive cd here- is tweaked by few seconds/percentage

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Originally Posted by Duskane

tanks are least of there concerns probably.
last i heard 5.2 has a lot of RDM adjustment so i doubt tanks getting anything besides maybe -insert defensive cd here- is tweaked by few seconds/percentage

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That's bother me bcs DRK complains and on almost same degree WAR ones has been way more loud that the NIN or SAM for example and they get changes improving they respective gameplay, heck they even put again buffs on BRD songs for the feeling of the job.

While ignoring DRK feedback is nothing new I still expect them showing some respect for those who love this job and can't enjoying it thanks to his lack of vision.

Considering so few of the terrible Stormblood changes were ever addresed I doubt they will pay us much attention.

update for 5.2 live letter:

well ppl as i fully expected DRK has been complety ignored from the live letter, not a single mention about him even with this thread requesting a rework and at minimun a mention on the live letter, there is no hope for shadowbringers DRK.

Dear yoshi-p, i want to let you know how frustrating is our feedback being complety ignored after months gathering support to make the job we love better and more fun/playable for the ones that spend years having fun with it before shadowbringers, i ask you to have more respect for us the veterans of the job in the future and want to make you understand that being ignored lead to a great frustation and unnecesary hostility specially on big request like this one. this request will remain the entire expansion if it have to, thanks and have a nice day.

attentively shao kuraishensi.

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Originally Posted by shao32

update for 5.2 live letter:

well ppl as i fully expected DRK has been complety ignored from the live letter, not a single mention about him even with this thread requesting a rework and at minimun a mention on the live letter, there is no hope for shadowbringers DRK.

Dear yoshi-p, i want to let you know how frustrating is our feedback being complety ignored after months gathering support to make the job we love better and more fun/playable for the ones that spend years having fun with it before shadowbringers, i ask you to have more respect for us the veterans of the job in the future and want to make you understand that being ignored lead to a great frustation and unnecesary hostility specially on big request like this one. this request will remain the entire expansion if it have to, thanks and have a nice day.

attentively shao kuraishensi.

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It was foolish to expect changes to DRK, or any tank, for 5.2. The current balance between the tanks is (mostly) extremely well done and it doesn't surprise me that SE is unwilling to touch it. Both RDM and SMN were much higher priority targets to have changes made for them. I wouldn't expect any tank changes until 5.3/5.4 at the earliest.

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

It was foolish to expect changes to DRK, or any tank, for 5.2. The current balance between the tanks is (mostly) extremely well done and it doesn't surprise me that SE is unwilling to touch it. Both RDM and SMN were much higher priority targets to have changes made for them. I wouldn't expect any tank changes until 5.3/5.4 at the earliest.

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https://i.imgur.com/px8A2G2.png

well acording to this balance is not a excuse to stop doing things properly, and since i consider they failed on every point meaby the abandom this way of think. still considering that DRK is busted against magic encounters and encounters with more that 2 targets aka the most recent adition T.E.A the balance is not as good as we can belive.

since this request and DRK complains are a question of gameplay feeling more than performance i don't consider they have any real excuse to don't do it after months of feedback and complains, but we are talking about DRK the only job that won't get gameplay adjustments mid expansion bcs reasons while the rest of the jobs get theirs even being balanced example 4.2 WAR.

While a rework would be nice this is the most balanced tanks have been since the start. While dark players have had the bulk of their job changed from heavensward to stormblood to shadowbringer changes the dev team have finally achieved balance in the power struggle. Not comparing jobs or saying your wrong, I'm simply saying there are jobs that are in a much worse state and just feel unfun to play because they're not only bad damage wise but bad mechanically. Yes dark is not what it use to be but atleast its never been the worse tank of a expansion and it's never had to deal with just being left out (3.0 and mostly 4.0 PLD). I'd say wait for the dark changes and let the dev team really think about how to keep it balanced but make it more fun to play and stop trying to rush the process.

Also a lot of people keep forgetting SE's goal is to lower skill gap but raise skill ceiling. All the new changes are based around people who are new to jobs being able to adjust to them. Dark knight might have a easy learning curve but it still has a high skill ceiling when it comes to optimizing. SE won't make any drastic changes that will ruin this setup they're going for. Small learning curves, everyone can do them combos and simple ocd buttons.

Not trying to be mean:

1-Some people are not "rushing" the process, in fact they have been waiting years ( HW DrK mains).

2-DrK does have an easy learning curve, albeit it has the skill ceilling of a min-sized lalafell.

actually DRK was the worst tank by a mile on stormblood due having no utility at all outside of single target TBN + laugable dps, and it was pretty much a useless utility compared to PLD one while raid mitigation was way more usefull making WAR being better than DRK, but his gameplay was fine and fun outside of the dark arts meme, if DRK get dark missionary earlier like on 4.2 the job wouln't being roasted the way it was.

i want to point that DRK have no high skill ceiling when optimizing, the job is so simple the only worry is keep everything on recast and spend your MP under raid buffs aka blood weapon windows and the only optimization part is the first 10s of the opener, basically a joke to play now with the bitter taste of having no internal sinergy whatsoever with his own buffs/mechanics mostly since half of them are copy pasted from other jobs.

since the devs have access to our feedback and being asked to the infinity that many PPL wanted the heavensward gameplay feeling back what they did with the job was a pure act of laziness by removing all his unique mechanics and proceed to copy pasted the rest, there is no future for DRK gameplay if they keep such process of removing the job gameplay identity and take as a base the WAR one.

Btw DrK fulfills the chart from adove

1 Never forget the fans: Doesnt imply to do what they crave for.

2 Fun comes first: Fun can take many forms so you wont ever be wrong and if some people dont like it, other Will.

3 Never back down: Insert Urianger's quote of the trailer.

4 Dont forget your roots: must be incinerated and the ashes thrown to the deepest ravine you can find.

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Originally Posted by LastRavenX

Also a lot of people keep forgetting SE's goal is to lower skill gap but raise skill ceiling. All the new changes are based around people who are new to jobs being able to adjust to them. Dark knight might have a easy learning curve but it still has a high skill ceiling when it comes to optimizing. SE won't make any drastic changes that will ruin this setup they're going for. Small learning curves, everyone can do them combos and simple ocd buttons.

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Dark Knight as it now stands is easy to learn AND easy to master, the skill ceiling is not as high as you’re trying to make it sounds.

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Originally Posted by PeacefulEdge

Btw DrK fulfills the chart from adove

1 Never forget the fans: Doesnt imply to do what they crave for.

2 Fun comes first: Fun can take many forms so you wont ever be wrong and if some people dont like it, other Will.

3 Never back down: Insert Urianger's quote of the trailer.

4 Dont forget your roots: must be incinerated and the ashes thrown to the deepest ravine you can find.

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i personally consider if they respect those rules and really listend the playerbase none of the drama around the job willl ever happen, i wish DRK get the same treatment of PLD, always evolving, never getting drama and tools/animations preserved/evolved, ppl satisfied with the evolution betwen expansions and not this constant involution/removal that DRK suffers each expansion that constantly make PPL mad and ask for stuff like scourge, shadow skin and the overall old gameplay that make DRK unique get back.

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Originally Posted by EpicOverlord85

Dark Knight as it now stands is easy to learn AND easy to master, the skill ceiling is not as high as you’re trying to make it sounds.

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I’d also like to add that balance should never come at the expense of fun. It’s the same issue that the healers are dealing with right now.

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Originally Posted by EpicOverlord85

I’d also like to add that balance should never come at the expense of fun. It’s the same issue that the healers are dealing with right now.

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i can't agree more to that.

HW Dark Knight was fun as hell. I never got sick of running dungeons over and over.

Dear Yoshi P,

I am glad you do not read the forums and ignore this thread. As you can see from the numbers DRK is the second most played tank and has seen the highest % of player increase out of all jobs. Thank you for making DRK a fun and enjoyable job to play in ShB, and ignoring the (sometimes insane) changes that a "large minority" (basically 2 people who don't understand how to play the job) have been complaining for.

Sincerely, an actual competent DRK player.

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Originally Posted by Falar

HW Dark Knight was fun as hell. I never got sick of running dungeons over and over.

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HW DRK wasn’t perfect, but it had a unique tool kit with a lot of identity. Now we just feel like a cobbled together job comprised of various Paladin and Warrior skills.

If you think no dev is reading the thread, did you write this just to irk people?

Then i shall play along!

"Use Identification, Rolls 20! Critical hit! Checks posts of TheRealQuah"

Ah, a former SB war that think current War is a borefest, Pld is garbage and DrK is a smooth job with deep mp management.

Well, i respect your opinion, but i hope you understand that there is people that dont feel confortable ditching their favorite job, so they post their complains here.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Dear Yoshi P,

I am glad you do not read the forums and ignore this thread. As you can see from the numbers DRK is the second most played tank and has seen the highest % of player increase out of all jobs. Thank you for making DRK a fun and enjoyable job to play in ShB, and ignoring the (sometimes insane) changes that a "large minority" (basically 2 people who don't understand how to play the job) have been complaining for.

Sincerely, an actual competent DRK player.

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It’s kinda hard to not be a competent DRK player at this point considering how simple the tool kit and mechanics are now, but hey nice attempt at a flex.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Dear Yoshi P,

I am glad you do not read the forums and ignore this thread. As you can see from the numbers DRK is the second most played tank and has seen the highest % of player increase out of all jobs. Thank you for making DRK a fun and enjoyable job to play in ShB, and ignoring the (sometimes insane) changes that a "large minority" (basically 2 people who don't understand how to play the job) have been complaining for.

Sincerely, an actual competent DRK player.

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I get that you like the changes - that’s assuming you played hw/sb iterations and know what the changes have been. There are some good additions this expansion, for example an AoE shield like everyone else had last expansion. I’m not in the all bad camp. BUT just because the numbers are good doesn’t mean it’s fun and enjoyable - it’s brain dead. Any brain dead class can have the numbers tuned up to give the appearance of fun and enjoyment when it’s possibly a mask for poor design. I could understand your perspective, that would be that you have little to none, if you’d never played DRK before this expansion... because the majority of the thoughts are from those of us who remember what the class was originally designed as and how to get back to that.

Why do you need to put everyone down who doesn’t think like you do?

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Dear Yoshi P,

I am glad you do not read the forums and ignore this thread. As you can see from the numbers DRK is the second most played tank and has seen the highest % of player increase out of all jobs. Thank you for making DRK a fun and enjoyable job to play in ShB, and ignoring the (sometimes insane) changes that a "large minority" (basically 2 people who don't understand how to play the job) have been complaining for.

Sincerely, an actual competent DRK player.

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While I respect everyone tastes I wonder how much will be the DRK population if the expansion wasn't so heavy themed to become the warrior of darkness and don't having all that marketing of the job and the WoL wearing the edgy armor everywhere at contrary that old expansions where the marketing was more discrete, (SB was more about zenos everywhere and HW a DRG fighting a dragon with much generic trailers and stuff) so all the new players don't jump directly to DRK.

I can tell you the population will be much more smaller and while I saw many opinions literally most DRK "mains" now only cares about TBN taking 0 damage, is still didn't saw anyone saying he play DRK for the gameplay and not just the aesthetics or TBN/Fray exclusively.

Idk if you are aware that part of the complains about DRK are the job is so brain dead to become competent with it thanks to the now generic mechanics that are being copy pasted and at least in this request are 42 (me + 41likes) people how know specially how it works asking for a change bcs they know how it works and want it to be much more than a WAR alternative skill tree which is a lot of support considering forum standards specially the tank sub-forum.

Literally thats the only reason I play DRK. If DRK didnt have TBN I would main PLD.

Hopefully 6.0 will create a clear distinction between WAR and DRK

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Originally Posted by Danelo

I get that you like the changes - that’s assuming you played hw/sb iterations and know what the changes have been.

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Given that she hadn't reached level 50 on any DoW until 10/25/2017, i.e. after Stormblood's release, I think we can safely assume she's had no firsthand knowledge of the HW playflow.

But woe be us if our memory extends further than the most recent iteration of a job, right? We'd all be happier, after all, if we could just purge our memories of better times, be it in regards to any specific part or the overall feel.

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Originally Posted by shao32

I can tell you the population will be much more smaller and while I saw many opinions literally most DRK "mains" now only cares about TBN taking 0 damage, is still didn't saw anyone saying he play DRK for the gameplay and not just the aesthetics or TBN/Fray exclusively.

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This is especially funny because this was exactly the case for me wy I prog'ed TEA on DRK. I usually play WAR/GNB, but TBN is just way too good in Ultimates, it's actually ridiculous. While NF heal on WAR was nice, TBN migitation is insane, my healers were more relaxed, and Ultimates are probably the only duties where you can use TBN almost on cooldown and still get your DA proc, while Dark Mind mitigates the many magical tb and raid aoes. In savage this wouldn't work.

Why I still hated playing as DRK: server ticks suck! BW 5th GCD is unreliable - it can actually mess up your mana management with TBN -, Delirium timing is obnoxiously annoying, the rotation is so overdone and utterly boring.

Is DRK strong? Yes, it is.
Is it fun? No, it isn't. And this hurts my soul, because it used to be a fun job in HW, and it just got worse from there.

The LL didn't mention any BW adjustments, so here we are - once again - DRK left out for any QoL changes, and - I tell you - will still be left out until 5.3x. And even then... yes, even then... the changes will not be enough. It was like this in HW, it was like this in SB, and it will be the same in ShB... or we'll see nothing until 6.0 launches.

*SE think tank*
SMN changes? Heck yeah, people play it, they are vocal about it.
WAR? Not many play anymore, and they are the loudest, so let's do something.
DRK, our iconic mascot for ShB, and problem child since SB? Nah, it's fine, don't worry.
/s

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

This is especially funny because this was exactly the case for me wy I prog'ed TEA on DRK. I usually play WAR/GNB, but TBN is just way too good in Ultimates, it's actually ridiculous. While NF heal on WAR was nice, TBN migitation is insane, my healers were more relaxed, and Ultimates are probably the only duties where you can use TBN almost on cooldown and still get your DA proc, while Dark Mind mitigates the many magical tb and raid aoes. In savage this wouldn't work.

Why I still hated playing as DRK: server ticks suck! BW 5th GCD is unreliable - it can actually mess up your mana management with TBN -, Delirium timing is obnoxiously annoying, the rotation is so overdone and utterly boring.

Is DRK strong? Yes, it is.
Is it fun? No, it isn't. And this hurts my soul, because it used to be a fun job in HW, and it just got worse from there.

The LL didn't mention any BW adjustments, so here we are - once again - DRK left out for any QoL changes, and - I tell you - will still be left out until 5.3x. And even then... yes, even then... the changes will not be enough. It was like this in HW, it was like this in SB, and it will be the same in ShB... or we'll see nothing until 6.0 launches.

*SE think tank*
SMN changes? Heck yeah, people play it, they are vocal about it.
WAR? Not many play anymore, and they are the loudest, so let's do something.
DRK, our iconic mascot for ShB, and problem child since SB? Nah, it's fine, don't worry.
/s

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To be entirely fair, TBN is ridiculously powerful in almost every piece of content in the game.

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

To be entirely fair, TBN is ridiculously powerful in almost every piece of content in the game.

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This only applies for the mitigation part the skill, and the reward for making it break is garbage to begin with, and this is assuming you are doing min.ilvl runs, which no one wants to do because it's basically level sync but with ilvl also affected. And if you run content that makes your level sync down below 70, then TBN basically becomes a useless skill that people wish they had access to as soon as they unlock the job/class (without the level jump book).

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

This only applies for the mitigation part the skill, and the reward for making it break is garbage to begin with, and this is assuming you are doing min.ilvl runs, which no one wants to do because it's basically level sync but with ilvl also affected. And if you run content that makes your level sync down below 70, then TBN basically becomes a useless skill that people wish they had access to as soon as they unlock the job/class (without the level jump book).

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I legitimately dread running anything under 80 as my DRK just because of how repetitive the job is under said level.

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Originally Posted by EpicOverlord85

I legitimately dread running anything under 80 as my DRK just because of how repetitive the job is under said level.

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well to be fair DRK is repetitive at any level but only get really serious under lvl 60 since the only thing that you learn abode that is delirium, bloodspiller and stalwart soul and with the exception of stalwart soul the rest doesn't add anything that more repetitive suff yay.

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Originally Posted by shao32

well to be fair DRK is repetitive at any level but only get really serious under lvl 60 since the only thing that you learn abode that is delirium, bloodspiller and stalwart soul and with the exception of stalwart soul the rest doesn't add anything that more repetitive suff yay.

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Sadly you’re not wrong Shao

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

To be entirely fair, TBN is ridiculously powerful in almost every piece of content in the game.

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Yes and no. TBN is powerful in a vacuum. The closer said content is to this vacuum, the better TBN gets.

As DRKoftheAzure said TBN is not free! Its mitigation is for real, but the risk of losing 500 pot/300 pot per target still exists. And as we know if you lose damage dealt, the target(s) live longer, you'll take more dmg, and need more mitigation. Then TBN would've failed its purpose.

Now, Ultimates are really close to said vacuum: TBN breaks for roughly 90% of time if used on CD. Just a little tweaking to the timing, and it will break 99% while greatly mitigating damage. All other content (and yes, even dungeons) this %-chance just drops significantly. I've seen 3-4 mobs NOT breaking the damn shield multiple times despite full duration usage, bosses sometimes don't even tickle it.
If not used on CD TBN loses value. e.g. WAR heals roughly 50k HP every 30s with Nascent Flash. TBN shields you for ~37.5k HP every 15s. In theory TBN "heals" more than NF, but because we cannot or should not use it on CD at the risk of not breaking it. Reduced to practice, this means TBN gets weaker than its equivalents. (I am aware ofc, when you overheal with NF it loses value, too.)

If you need it to survive, and it breaks, it's the best mitigation ability. Otherwise it becomes mediocre, or even a loss (sadly).
TBN is an ability that requires skill for efficent use, it still bugs me that it comes with (the highest) risk contrary to its equivalents.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

This only applies for the mitigation part the skill, and the reward for making it break is garbage to begin with, and this is assuming you are doing min.ilvl runs, which no one wants to do because it's basically level sync but with ilvl also affected. And if you run content that makes your level sync down below 70, then TBN basically becomes a useless skill that people wish they had access to as soon as they unlock the job/class (without the level jump book).

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The shield is the reward itself, it cannot have a damage reward in it because it would break the DRK design.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

Yes and no. TBN is powerful in a vacuum. The closer said content is to this vacuum, the better TBN gets.

As DRKoftheAzure said TBN is not free! Its mitigation is for real, but the risk of losing 500 pot/300 pot per target still exists. And as we know if you lose damage dealt, the target(s) live longer, you'll take more dmg, and need more mitigation. Then TBN would've failed its purpose.

Now, Ultimates are really close to said vacuum: TBN breaks for roughly 90% of time if used on CD. Just a little tweaking to the timing, and it will break 99% while greatly mitigating damage. All other content (and yes, even dungeons) this %-chance just drops significantly. I've seen 3-4 mobs NOT breaking the damn shield multiple times despite full duration usage, bosses sometimes don't even tickle it.
If not used on CD TBN loses value. e.g. WAR heals roughly 50k HP every 30s with Nascent Flash. TBN shields you for ~37.5k HP every 15s. In theory TBN "heals" more than NF, but because we cannot or should not use it on CD at the risk of not breaking it. Reduced to practice, this means TBN gets weaker than its equivalents. (I am aware ofc, when you overheal with NF it loses value, too.)

If you need it to survive, and it breaks, it's the best mitigation ability. Otherwise it becomes mediocre, or even a loss (sadly).
TBN is an ability that requires skill for efficent use, it still bugs me that it comes with (the highest) risk contrary to its equivalents.

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Its not vacum mitigation because it makes DRK literally the easiest tank to heal in dungeons where you have a constant flow of high dmg from mobs. This contributes to healers dps and as a result you end up with faster clear even if you dont break it from time to time. On average its still contributes a good chunk of extra dps into the run.

Also warrior does not use Nascent flash all the time and he does not use it when his health is full, since it only gives you enough time to heal from 3 GCD at max you want to use it when you are using big moves. Nascent flash is a heal afterall and comes up with some drawbacks that is making it not comparable to TBN.
It does not heal you over 100% hp, you cant add to yourself the extra health like TBN does. You need to receive damage then you could heal from damage taken, but then you have a healers who are right now wasting their time to heal you, not contributing to team dps and potentially overhealing you.
Second problem is that nascent flash needs a macro or a swifty hands to use it properly, macros in this game are retarded and slow but if someone is playing on console its still better than selecting someone with dpad. Using nascent flash is pain in the ass, especially if you are starting your rotation and want to do big numbers and heal from them, its tedious and annoying to use to say the least and potentially could give you downtime when using it. There is no problem with using TBN whatsoever.

i think tbn is fine as it is, minus the fact that it takes 0.5-1.5 for the shield to actually work.

On a serious note DrK has bigger concerns like BW, if they dont "fix" its unreliability in 5.2 then they really are making void of the job because by now they should have noticed themselves that the window
is punishing for no actual reason or objetive.