DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Whenever new content is launched that we all had to start from the bottom and work ourselves up together, people calling others garbage tier have no clue what they're saying.

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I'm not sure how to respond to this because this all comes down to what you see as the bottom. For example if we look at my deltascape 1 savage clear (my first clear by the way and no deaths from me on July 29th 2017) I had 4684 DPS and that was with ilvl 320 from crafted gear. If I was doing 4k then why should people be doing 4k when we are at 360 gear or even 370 if you spam hunts?

When you say new content I don't know if you mean 4.x patches or expansions. If you mean expansions then that's expected because everyone will have new rotations due to new skills. That only happens every new expansion which is not often. When new content drops your rotation doesn't change. The fight may change but that should effect your that much unless you die or being very careful which is fair.

Like Maero said just join the balance discord, people there will help you learn your job and rotations and such. Honestly the mentality "If it dies then it's fine" is the worse mind set you can have when it comes to an MMO. Most likely there are things you could do better from your last kill and make the next one even quicker if you are trying to farm primal weapons or mounts for example.

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Originally Posted by Remus

Like Maero said just join the balance discord, people there will help you learn your job and rotations and such. Honestly the mentality "If it dies then it's fine" is the worse mind set you can have when it comes to an MMO. Most likely there are things you could do better from your last kill and make the next one even quicker if you are trying to farm primal weapons or mounts for example.

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Bruh, that's a bad plug. If people can/wanna go out of their way to get good, they will, there's ways. Everybody knows that. But not everybody who likes playing a game of pick-up now and then is gonna sign up for camp to get good. They get good on their own pace. You don't see the likes of Kobe playing with the general population of ballers and calling them garbage tier for not being good enough to be in the D League. Some folks need to get over themselves. For real.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Whenever new content is launched that we all had to start from the bottom and work ourselves up together, people calling others garbage tier have no clue what they're saying.

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You did 2300 DPS on DRG in o5s with a single death (9:04) on May 7th (kill time 10:04).

This is a topic near and dear to my heart as I spend a majority of my free time helping other people improve their play for the game both in-game and through other platforms such as Discord - The Balance in particular.

There is a significant spread of skill levels when it comes to the player base and generally, when you help with coaching for long enough through experience you come to know the general goals, plays, and errors for players in particular performance brackets. With this comes the knowledge of ballpark numbers and dps boundaries given various constraints, contexts and factors. I have the luxury of also having worked out and for a long time used the formulae the community use to figure out damage figures and thus dps, so this gives even greater understanding in what can be considered low and high for a given job (my specialty being but certainly not limited to SMN).

When someone comes to the SMN channels for assistance and I notice that they are in fact performing at the lower end I will never call them garbage-tier. Just for recognising that they might be doing things incorrectly and coming forth seeking help with a willingness to learn takes a good deal of courage. Big fan of people like that, it's also why the job channels exist in the first place - to provide assistance to those that want to do better.

However, if someone were to link a clean fight log (no deaths from them) and ask "is x dps at ilvl y good?" I will be blunt and honest with truthful feedback after assessing the factors at hand. If I see horrors in your rotation I will bring them to light with a NotLikeDuck or PaissaSquint, just as I will praise things done consistently and well. The feedback must be balanced and fair.

4k for dps jobs was fairly respectable back when Ala Mhigan gear was the best available and people were still figuring things out (think back to when Susano and Lakshmi were the only raids). We are very far into the expansion now with job mechanics ironed out and lots of gear upgrades later. If someone is more contemporarily geared and as a DPS job are doing closer to or less than 4000 dps then there are some serious play errors happening.

Thus to answer in the context of where the majority of people asking such a question come from in character progression: no, 4k is not good and not close to respectable for DPS jobs at contemporary gear levels, even from i340+ when we consider Deltascape numbers and that dungeon gear is now at i345.

But now more aware, people have a decision to make:

Do they recognise that they could improve and if so, are prepared to spend some time doing so?
Are they content where they are not wanting to change, choosing to remain aware that they are making mistakes but being ok with that fact?
Are they refusing to accept responsibility that they are capable of mistakes and thus see no need to change?

If the first then that's great, there's lots of good resources online and in discords to help you there, not to mention helpful souls like I strive to be.
If the second then that's fine, you're playing the game as you wish to, though be aware in how your preferences can impact the play experience of others.

The only thing that's truly "garbage" in my eyes is the attitude surrounding the third and the tendency to be very defensive, deflect and typically blame parsers and people who parse. There is always something someone can learn to do better no matter where they sit in terms of play ability - regardless of whether the errors were identified with a parser or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Jellybums

Bruh, that's a bad plug. If people can/wanna go out of their way to get good, they will, there's ways. Everybody knows that.But not everybody who likes playing a game of pick-up now and then is gonna sign up for camp to get good. They get good on their own pace. You don't see the likes of Kobe playing with the general population of ballers and calling them garbage tier for not being good enough to be in the D League. Some folks need to get over themselves. For real.

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You can call it a bad plug but I am telling the playerbase a place they can go to learn from very good players who dedicate time to make rotations and openers about their class so if you want to call it a bad plug then whatever (it's not even my discord server but a very helpful and useful one for learning your class).

I didn't say people can't learn at their own pace. That doesn't stop them from still looking at those resources and slowly working at it at their own pace (it's almost been a year since stormblood released). If you actually looked at my post on page 9 (I can't remember but it's close to that) I didn't think the post I made somewhere else on this forum would spark a discussion because I didn't think people would take it seriously. I even said in my post in this thread I wouldn't say garbage but below average instead.

With that said, my point still stands. The fact that I am was able to do 4684 dps in 320 gear shouldn't excuse people from doing at least 5k in 360+.

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Originally Posted by NoctusT

You did 2300 DPS on DRG in o5s with a single death (9:04) on May 7th (kill time 10:04).

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I actually saw that and I was thinking of putting that in my initial post but I thought that would be in bad taste. I try not to bring up other people's dps because it is a little rude especially if they have no knowledge of it even being there.

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Originally Posted by Nemekh

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We need more people like you.

@Remus I don’t bring up folks’ DPS normally but I just dislike people who say shit like that. Especially when they blame gear for bad play. Well that and this is a thread about people’s general DPS.

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Originally Posted by NoctusT

You did 2300 DPS on DRG in o5s with a single death (9:04) on May 7th (kill time 10:04).

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This is bad news, a DRG should be death for at last half the fight or he isn't doing his job!

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Originally Posted by NoctusT

You did 2300 DPS on DRG in o5s with a single death (9:04) on May 7th (kill time 10:04).

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Man, how long should I wait before this thread explode with people saying that "this is fine since the boss died anyway!" ?

https://j.gifs.com/E9L9nY.gif

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Originally Posted by Atreides

This is bad news, a DRG should be death for at last half the fight or he isn't doing his job!

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Healers clearly didn't adjust enough.

So on curiosity I checked fflogs, and apparently nobody who's ran with me caught me in any of their parses lol.

But then again I doubt very many people log DF stuff.

This thread makes me feel sick to my stomach...

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Originally Posted by Issac

This thread makes me feel sick to my stomach...

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Any time someone asks me "Why doesnt SE have a Parser in the game" I will point to this thread. This is exactly why they dont have one and dont condone them.

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Originally Posted by Issac

This thread makes me feel sick to my stomach...

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Any time someone asks me "Why doesnt SE have a Parser in the game" I will point to this thread. This is exactly why they dont have one and dont condone them.

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And both of you are focusing on the negatives surrounding parsers and DPS rather than the posters that are advocating for improvement, or even saying that 4,000 DPS is not terrible depending on the context behind the number (type of content, gear, job, number of deaths, rotation, etc.). Too many people are blinded by their prejudices to see the other side, and I'm sorry but these two posts speak to that.

I'll just repeat my story of the SAM in TsukuEx doing 2,800 DPS against a BRD doing 5,000 with a death...and the SAM was the one berating the BRD and saying they were trash. When clearly, the numbers prove otherwise. And I feel confident in saying the SAM was not using a parser, otherwise he wouldn't have been acting like the God of DPS. But only people who parse are "toxic", right?

This person seems to have painted a picture of me.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

And both of you are focusing on the negatives surrounding parsers and DPS rather than the posters that are advocating for improvement, or even saying that 4,000 DPS is not terrible depending on the context behind the number (type of content, gear, job, number of deaths, rotation, etc.). Too many people are blinded by their prejudices to see the other side, and I'm sorry but these two posts speak to that.

I'll just repeat my story of the SAM in TsukuEx doing 2,800 DPS against a BRD doing 5,000 with a death...and the SAM was the one berating the BRD and saying they were trash. When clearly, the numbers prove otherwise. And I feel confident in saying the SAM was not using a parser, otherwise he wouldn't have been acting like the God of DPS. But only people who parse are "toxic", right?

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I'm only stating the facts. SE and Yoshi-P have officially came out and said why there are no parsers. This thread only proves his point.

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Q: Can we have an official in game parser for only ourselves? Especially for PS4 players.
A: No. I 100% understand that you want to see your DPS, but then people will demand to know your DPS and there will be fights. And it would then mean someone would take the tool, and make it so you can see everyone’s. And we understand fully that people want this tool to get better themselves, but we are certain that it will lead to fighting. But we are always considering it for the future. So, during 3.X we saw the skill gap between good and bad players increase, which is why we are focusing on re-developing our battle system to close the gap. Once that happens, we will consider it. But now, it would just hurt the community. I’m not sure if I can say this, but we are working on a system that doesn’t display a number but may be a system that you can try and then try again, to make yourself better. Hmmm. It’s probably never been done on an MMO before.

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From the Frankfurt FanFest 2017.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I'm only stating the facts. SE and Yoshi-P have officially came out and said why there are no parsers. This thread only proves his point.

From the Frankfurt FanFest 2017.

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Stating facts, or asserting somewhat obvious bias? Also an emphasis on "Once that happens, we will consider it."

It's not a done and dusted matter. Especially given more things spoken about regarding ACT use in recent interviews.

We have stone sky sea dps calculator. It show you how much you are supposed to do dps.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

We have stone sky sea dps calculator. It show you how much you are supposed to do dps.

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It's important to note that SSS hp values are not immediately available in game and are obtained through use of ACT and other tools. The calculator relies on this metadata.

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Q: Can we have an official in game parser for only ourselves? Especially for PS4 players.
A: No. I 100% understand that you want to see your DPS, but then people will demand to know your DPS and there will be fights. And it would then mean someone would take the tool, and make it so you can see everyone’s. And we understand fully that peoplewant this tool to get better themselves, but we are certain that it will lead to fighting. But we are always considering it for the future. So, during 3.X we saw the skill gap between good and bad players increase, which is why we are focusing on re-developing our battle system to close the gap. Once that happens, we will consider it. But now, it would just hurt the community. I’m not sure if I can say this, but we are working on a system that doesn’t display a number but may be a system that you can try and then try again, to make yourself better. Hmmm. It’s probably never been done on an MMO before.

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So, instead of hurting the community by showing them the hard truth with an in-game tool and by letting fight happen, it's preferable to let the community hurt herself with a third party tool and by letting rampant hypocrisy going around while the fight still happens anyway.

Seems like a coward point of view to me.


Plus, I don't think anyone on this topic actually said that everyone should be at god-tier level, that would just be stupid. But people should still aim to at least no be a burden for the other member of the party.

If the fight is cleared while a dps stayed at 3k dps the whole duration, it doesn't mean that this person did the job. It just means that the other party members were just good enough to carry a dead weight.

Well Stone Sky and Sea does help yes but you have no moving targets or mechanics to deal with.
Parsers do help but only way some of us can get numbers is by asking as the console crowd does not have any parsers. Which i wish someone would make an app :(

Thats why sss demand more than content actually need dps. Even if you lose little dps due mechanics, you can still clear the content. Sss more likely tell you are you ready for the content.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Well Stone Sky and Sea does help yes but you have no moving targets or mechanics to deal with.
Parsers do help but only way some of us can get numbers is by asking as the console crowd does not have any parsers. Which i wish someone would make an app :(

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Ayy was working on one for consoles but I honestly have no idea re: the current status. Probably fell through.

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Originally Posted by Issac

This person seems to have painted a picture of me.

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Are you a 4k DPS? How about instead of taking this as a personal attack, look at how you can improve? We all started at the bottom once upon a time. Some people are more diplomatic than others with their opinions, but that doesn't change the fact you can always improve if you do desire.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I'm only stating the facts. SE and Yoshi-P have officially came out and said why there are no parsers. This thread only proves his point.

From the Frankfurt FanFest 2017.

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And their solution was pointless job gauges and Stone, Sky, Sea, neither of which accomplished anything. In fact, the skill gap has only increased because players have no way of learning without using a third party tool, youtube guides or asking better players—all of whom have a parse going. Since we can't talk about numbers, you see people disband after two attempts or kick in silence. How does that benefit the community?

Toxic people will be toxic, a parser doesn't magically make anything worse.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Thats why sss demand more than content actually need dps. Even if you lose little dps due mechanics, you can still clear the content. Sss more likely tell you are you ready for the content.

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You will accomplish the same hitting a train dummy for an hour. That does not mean it teaches you how to translate that into an actual raid setting. Fights like Guardian and God Kefka have numerous mechanics they will throw at you. Without knowing how to balance, you aren't going to lose "a few DPS."

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Originally Posted by Nemekh

Ayy was working on one for consoles but I honestly have no idea re: the current status. Probably fell through.

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That is a shame i would have loved a parser app and even a discord app for PS4 :(

I see the usefullness, I've used parsers myself in the past on other MMO's. Havent used one yet with this game because I see no need to use one. I dont raid much anymore but even when I did our raid leader took care of those stats for us. In those situations its a great tool. but when someone uses it in a dungeon roulette, where you could pretty much do the run blindfolded, just so they can single someone out as a "bad" player, thats where its a problem.

What would be nice for SE to add in is a statistic board at the end of a dungeon that looks like the stat board at the end of a PvP match, Damage dealt, Healing done, Health restored, Kill/Death/Assist ratios, that sort of thing. If SE adds in a proper parser I would probably only use it for myself.

I came to this page the other day and started to skim through the comments (yeah, yeah, crucify me for skimming) and picked up on a lot of aggression towards "garbage tier players" and it reminded me of the Q&A i posted above where it was explicitly said they didnt want to give players more reason to be dicks towards one another. A lot of the comments here really shone a light on that.

I do find the reactions to even the slightest hint of opposition towards a parser to be quite interesting. Also, thank you guys for telling me how I think. I wouldnt know what to think without you! :)

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Another painting

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A lotta aspiring painters, it would seem :/

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I'm only stating the facts. SE and Yoshi-P have officially came out and said why there are no parsers. This thread only proves his point.

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You clearly haven’t read the entire thread; you’re just speaking on your own bias against parsers. Because most of the people in here are being immensely civilized when discussing their opinions on “is 4k DPS garbage tier”. I strongly urge you to go read it again, and try to see past your own prejudices.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I do find the reactions to even the slightest hint of opposition towards a parser to be quite interesting. Also, thank you guys for telling me how I think. I wouldnt know what to think without you! :)

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We’re going off of what you said. Just saying. :/ Maybe next time you can open with a clearer position like you did in this post, rather than just being like “And this is why parsers are bad!!!!!!!!” without saying anything else. Laying off of the passive-aggressive remarks also helps. Just a few suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Issac

A lotta aspiring painters, it would seem :/

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I don’t see how it’s “painting a picture of you” when you have painted your own bias as clear as day—your posts are nothing but anti-parsers, and it doesn’t take a genius to see that. If, somehow, your position is different, why don’t you try clarifying instead of making passive-aggressive remarks. To be honest, that paints you as the toxic one in here, not those who are talking numbers. :/

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You clearly haven’t read the entire thread; you’re just speaking on your own bias against parsers. Because most of the people in here are being immensely civilized when discussing their opinions on “is 4k DPS garbage tier”. I strongly urge you to go read it again, and try to see past your own prejudices.

We’re going off of what you said. Just saying. :/ Maybe next time you can open with a clearer position like you did in this post, rather than just being like “And this is why parsers are bad!!!!!!!!” without saying anything else. Laying off of the passive-aggressive remarks also helps. Just a few suggestions.

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I thought what I said was pretty straight forward. SE has stated an official position regarding Parsers and this thread contained some great examples of how parsers cause problems. That's all. Everything else taken from those statements is the reader projecting.

Sorry for the sarcastic comment, sometimes my cheeky sense of humor gets away from me and I forget sarcasm and intonation are lost in text. I hoped the winky face would have helped convey that but I guess I was wrong. No malice was intended even though i was rather confused why you took what you did from my comment.

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Originally Posted by Nemekh

Stating facts, or asserting somewhat obvious bias? Also an emphasis on "Once that happens, we will consider it."

It's not a done and dusted matter. Especially given more things spoken about regarding ACT use in recent interviews.

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Exactly, and that was a fact too. I would much prefer a proper, in-game parser instead of using sketchy 3rd party tools. Thats a whole other side to this parser problem.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I thought what I said was pretty straight forward. SE has stated an official position regarding Parsers and this thread contained some great examples of how parsers cause problems. That's all. Everything else taken from those statements is the reader projecting.

Sorry for the sarcastic comment, sometimes my cheeky sense of humor gets away from me and I forget sarcasm and intonation are lost in text. I hoped the winky face would have helped convey that but I guess I was wrong. No malice was intended even though i was rather confused why you took what you did from my comment.

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I was aware of the sarcasm/sardonic nature of the comment. And I’m not trying to be malicious either, but your comments in this thread up until the one with the quote and your more clearer position on parsers were pretty biased towards anti-parser with no real “why” as to...well, why. The prior posts were nothing more than “this is why parsers shouldn’t be a thing”, and perhaps I shouldn’t have made the assumption, but I’ve been in just about every parser debate on this forum, and generally anti-parser comments are just like those, and they tend to not want to see past what they believe is right and look at the other side. I apologize for making that assumption of you, and I appreciate your more clarified stance on it all the same.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Exactly, and that was a fact too. I would much prefer a proper, in-game parser instead of using sketchy 3rd party tools. Thats a whole other side to this parser problem.

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My personal opinion is that, if the in-game parser was significantly lacking in the way ACT+FFLogs work with one another in tandem, people who utilize ACT+FFLogs will probably still continue to use those tools just because they can be very comprehensive when used properly. I’m not sure why you think the tool is sketchy though. Would you mind explaining why you consider it “sketchy”? Is it just because it’s a third-party tool you have to download, install, and that reads the game data?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I was aware of the sarcasm/sardonic nature of the comment. And I’m not trying to be malicious either, but your comments in this thread up until the one with the quote and your more clearer position on parsers were pretty biased towards anti-parser with no real “why” as to...well, why. The prior posts were nothing more than “this is why parsers shouldn’t be a thing”, and perhaps I shouldn’t have made the assumption, but I’ve been in just about every parser debate on this forum, and generally anti-parser comments are just like those, and they tend to not want to see past what they believe is right and look at the other side. I apologize for making that assumption of you, and I appreciate your more clarified stance on it all the same.

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You are right, I probably should have lead with that. I think I have just been on these forums for way too long and seen so many times where I have taken up to an hour to write a well thought out post only to get no response or a "K...". Yeah, I wasnt even trying to say I agreed with their stance at all (cause I dont) just that this is the official stance provided, things may change eventually, being assholes to each other on the forums over it is not the best way to prove your point (not you specifically).

Now that I have read more of the posts more carefully I do see more backlash than support of the OP. Honestly I dont really care one way or the other, i see both sides and would rather see good arguments for something than bad arguments. I do see how what I was saying could be anti-parser but it was a one sentence comment, really not much to go off of. I will try to be a little clearer from the get go next time.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

My personal opinion is that, if the in-game parser was significantly lacking in the way ACT+FFLogs work with one another in tandem, people who utilize ACT+FFLogs will probably still continue to use those tools just because they can be very comprehensive when used properly. I’m not sure why you think the tool is sketchy though. Would you mind explaining why you consider it “sketchy”? Is it just because it’s a third-party tool you have to download, install, and that reads the game data?

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Some people are nervous about installing anything that's third-party, especially after the repeated warnings about "Third Party Tools" in the ToS and such. And you know how Windower was back during FFXI days, where it was a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of affair, where I don't think anybody got banned, but rumors flew around of a few who did, and there'd be a "yea huh/nah-uh" thing going around whether or not that was actually true.

A lot of people stepped back and said "I dun wanna risk it....." and just didn't use it at all.

That and at the end of the day, I think the only people who really care about parsing, are the people who want to get into higher end endgame content. Your average joes, they don't really care as long as stuff dies and quests get completed.

It is sad that Yoshi-P is hesitant to include DPS meters as part of the game, but then if you look at WoW, you'll understand why. I have personally seen toxic players berating each other and e-peen waving, it's ugly and I'd rather not see it here in FFXIV. The fact that only some endgame raiders use parsing tools, and the fact that said players are rarely found (or they are rarely bothered to care except for the most egregious examples of poor play) in Duty Finder content means that there's a nil chance that you're ever going to get crap thrown at you if you put out a less-than-stellar performance.

I'd rather have this... than have what goes on in WoW. There's a reason I don't do dungeons in WoW all that often. That would be one.

Let people do low dps and then go in groups where everyone is as low as them, then they can just start judge the others for doing bad, without realizing they are very low on the actual performance themselves. I mean, this debate has been going on for a long time, in different forms and what not here on the forum. We just need to deal with the people who don't want to get good or be better or simply just utilize the kick button.

Well, if there's one thing to be said, it's that SE's stance on parsing seems to have really lightened up as of late. Either because they realize that actively punishing people who parse (without harassing anyone else with it) would lead to the raid community getting gutted, and/or it's so common now that actively discouraging it like they used to in the past would be a really bad look when actual problems like hackers and botters are still so rampant within the game.

I remember that when I first started playing at the start of Heavensward, people warned me in particular to not talk about parsing period on these forums because of a story of how one of the most prominent DRG guide writers got banned from here, because he merely included a screenshot/video in his guide where a parsing overlay was on display. That story tells me why that Reddit Balance discord exists, and it tells me why there's such a huge rift between the English community, split between 2 websites (these forums and Reddit). These forums *do not* lend themselves well to guide writing for various reasons I'm sure don't have to be explained, and on top of that, it seems the official forums have an incredibly low population of actual raiders that actively post on it.

At least now we can somewhat have a discussion on parsing without forum bans being handed out over it. Though a lot of people are being disingenuous over it.

I do wonder what the JP community stance on parsing is, actually. Their debates don't seem to get anywhere near as heated as ours. The last time I looked over and found a heated thread that might be considered shameful by any means was when male bunny suits were revealed.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

My personal opinion is that, if the in-game parser was significantly lacking in the way ACT+FFLogs work with one another in tandem, people who utilize ACT+FFLogs will probably still continue to use those tools just because they can be very comprehensive when used properly. I’m not sure why you think the tool is sketchy though. Would you mind explaining why you consider it “sketchy”? Is it just because it’s a third-party tool you have to download, install, and that reads the game data?

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This is a whole other issue, lol. I'll try to clarify and not ramble too much.

I'm of a mind that if the game needed said mod, the devs would/should add it in to the game officially. Its a mark of poor game design if I need to download third party tools just to make your game playable. Honestly the game is perfectly playable without a parser but it is a handy dandy tool. I don't play any games with mods, at least not for long. I tried DBM from WoW for a bit, found it helpful but the game itself didnt hold my attention once I hit endgame. My son had installed a Mod for his WoW account, not sure which one, but it ended up adding a keylogger to his computer and his account got stolen. I got it corrected and recovered but that stood as a little lesson I've carried with me.

I tried to play Jak and Daxter the MMO... umm... sorry... what was it called again? Oh yeah. Wildstar. It actually looked like a lot of fun but when it came out I was pretty into FFXIV and had gotten really used to using the integrated controller setup. I kept asking if they were going to do something like what FFXIV does for their controller support but the best answer I got was "get X-padder" so I tried it out and it did not function as smoothly as I really needed/wanted it to. Eventually, with lack of integrated controller support, I gave up on the game. I felt the controller support would have really helped this game.

So, the chance of downloading unwanted software along side the 3rd party mods, mods not necessarily working as well as it should/could with the games systems (since they are not supposed to do it anyway), and its against the TOS to use 3rd party tools in the first place so I really dont want to take the chance of having my account banned. I know these reasons don't stop everyone but these are my reasons.

To even further get a gasp from people, yes I do play Skyrim, and yes I play it without ANY mods. I dont even download mod packs for Minecraft but I dont play it much to begin with. I know you are probably looking at me like I grew a third head right now but I would rather play games the way they were meant to be played/experienced. If I was meant to have a parser SE should provide one. Although I am curious how my WAR rotation and RDM rotation stack up against the best of the best. I guess I will never know ;)

Nah, 4k DPS isn't garbage tier. This is garbage tier lol

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Nah, 4k DPS isn't garbage tier. This is garbage tier lol

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One, what the actual hell. Were they auto attacking?

And two, you REALLY might wanna delete that post.

This thread is getting really bad, and shows why FFlogs the way it is currently setup is such a bad thing for the community. People really need to stop with the naming and shaming, it's really unseemly.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

This thread is getting really bad, and shows why FFlogs is such a bad thing for the community. People really need to stop with the naming and shaming, it's really unseemly.

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There was literally one incident that you could even call “naming and shaming”. Go back and read the entire thread, please.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

There was literally one incident that you could even call “naming and shaming”. Go back and read the entire thread, please.

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I've seen at least two

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

I've seen at least two

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Careful, we arent allowed to look at any flaws, only the good parts.