(Rant Post) Why Does It Feel Like Giving Advice Is Evil?

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Apparently my assistance is a power personality.

So I guess I'll use one of the excuses some of the people that are like my issue say, in my own way. I've been told before they can play how they want because I don't pay their sub. They also don't pay mine, so why do I have to spend time babysitting instead of playing the game? Because when I did decide to go healer, and get 2 Ice Mages, that's literally what it.

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It wasn’t meant to be insulting. Say if I’m having a lazy Natti day, I’m not going to join content where I’m a liability. But that’s me. In the end people do what they want. The solution for people wanting to preach - just form a serious pf or static. Otherwise be prepared to be disappointed. Not really sure what else to say.

@jojola I'm all game for fairness. They want people to use nice words and tolerate them, then they need to accept that the next following party they encounter doing their dailies won't be just noobs who spammed potd/fates to get their crowns.

Just to go back to your advice of being nice. I encountered many people who were very mean to me. I gave them advice with the happy faces many people who wants to look nice use to phrase words. One time, one person replied to me very badly and with the excuse that they worked for 8 hrs. They just got home and wanted to be done with their dailies. I got a 10 hrs shift and wanted to be done with my dailies but didn't let out my frustration from work and anger on someone else who i encountered online.

When i started to treated them as they were treating me and telling them what they were doing wrong, they actually stopped talking and did the changes I advised them. People's reaction is just so unexpected.

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Originally Posted by JumperX

@jojola I'm all game for fairness. They want people to use nice words and tolerate them, then they need to accept that the next following party they encounter doing their dailies won't be just noobs who spammed potd/fates to get their crowns.

Just to go back to your advice of being nice. I encountered many people who were very mean to me. I gave them advice with the happy faces many people who wants to look nice use to phrase words. One time, one person replied to me very badly and with the excuse that they worked for 8 hrs. They just got home and wanted to be done with their dailies. I got a 10 hrs shift and wanted to be done with my dailies but didn't let out my frustration from work and anger on someone else who i encountered online.

When i started to treated them as they were treating me and telling them what they were doing wrong, they actually stopped talking and did the changes I advised them. People's reaction is just so unexpected.

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After an 8 hour shift, depending on how stressful the job is, it's understandable that people want it done fast, though insulting shouldn't really be a method of speech. My job is rather stressful just because of it's nature, by the end of the shift all I want to do is jump on FF14, do my dailies, craft a few things and head off. What I don't want to do is wipe 50 times on something extremely easy just because 1-2 people refuse to learn. If that happens I will call them out on it and let them how to avoid wiping. If they react with insults, that is OK, get out of the party. No trying to help, no arguments, no debate, no nothing, out of the party, plain and simple, either willingly or through a kick, either way is fine. Insulting them back won't really get you anywhere, it's far easier to just kick.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If that's the quality of mentors players keep running into, then it's not surprising players aren't going to listen to the mentors who are knowledgeable and trying to help.

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The problem with mentors....most should not be mentors. The majority of mentors have that crown because they think it looks cool or have played long enough. The ones you truly want to learn from are the ones that seem odd as players. Jumping in a raid with you, easily avoiding mechanics, never dying, doing their job very well, and usually very quiet unless you address them by name.

More often than not, those are mentor material, however the desire to get the mentor crown is not there. Why should it be since the majority of mentor slots are filled with what is essentially vegetables.

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Originally Posted by Crystal_Raven

The problem with mentors....most should not be mentors. The majority of mentors have that crown because they think it looks cool or have played long enough. The ones you truly want to learn from are the ones that seem odd as players. Jumping in a raid with you, easily avoiding mechanics, never dying, doing their job very well, and usually very quiet unless you address them by name.

More often than not, those are mentor material, however the desire to get the mentor crown is not there. Why should it be since the majority of mentor slots are filled with what is essentially vegetables.

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This is some good points. But I still think that the mentor system could end up being useful. The question then become "How to choose a mentor without a direct intervention from a CM?". Plus, there may be some players that actually thinks that helping other is it's own reward, and that there is no need for a crown or a mount to lure them in the system.

This is actually a really difficult question to answer. If you put the condition, for instance, "Every mentor should have beat Bahamut Ultimate" then the mentor title in itself become the reward. Sure, the players who have it will be extremely skilled, but you don't know if they are actually willing to help others, without even taking into account the fact that mentors will then become extremely rare.

I wonder how it can be done...

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

but you are a professional, sorted into a group of professionals only. Your motivation is much different than someone who plays for fun. A person who plays for enjoyment isn't really going to care about self improvement compared to someone who stakes some of their identity on playing. Its just usually in sports they sort all the enjoyment people out in grade school, even.

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What? I am not a professional. It's recreational tennis for fun. I do not get paid (in fact I spend a considerable amount of money on the hobby).

The point of my post was that unsolicited advice isn't the enemy.

To give another example - I once had a boss. This guy was brilliant, but incredibly rough around the edges. He was very curt, even rude at times to everyone, but he was universally accepted in the industry as a subject matter expert on all matters of things. The sheer amount of professional knowledge that man imparted on me is staggering and has helped my career immensely. Had I rejected his teachings/knowledge because of his attitude, I'd be a weaker person today because of it.

That's my point. rather than succumb to emotions, be open to any and all feedback at all times. As I stated above. It will serve you (royal you, not you specifically) infinitely more in life than whining will.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Same can be said for Advice givers, when your advice is rejected or unused how you behave followng that speaks loads. Do you act like an adult and move on or like child and throw a fit.

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This is 100% accurate. Throwing a fit marginalizes any "goodwill" you put forth. Moving on is an option, as is clarifying.

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

Yes it is. You were playing against an opponent. We play as a team. If you are playing on a team and competitive by all means, throw the advice. But, I hardly believe a dungeon to be classified as competitive. Like I said before, it depends on the situation. If you are in a static group, by all means teach. If you are running a dungeon with randoms you may want to ask before you start preaching.

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Do you play any sports by any chance? The reason I ask is because I don't think you do based on your statement. Despite being "opponents", we are a tennis community before we are opponents. As such feedback is something people offer each other. Sometimes it's not pretty feedback, but that doesn't mean it's less true.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

I guess what I’m trying to say in the end is, don’t give the folks who yell at you for trying to help the time of day in your mind. It’s not worth it and hurts in the long run, I know that sounds over simplified but, it’s not. Just, don’t give jerks the time of day and remember the cool folks who are respectful.

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Rest assured, I'm not affected by how people react. If people want help I will offer it, if people don't I will drop it/remove the issue. That won't stop me from ever speaking my mind though, because in the end I treat people how I would want to be treated, and I would want someone to tell me if I did something wrong, or was holding them back.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Even if I was a great player, I'd feel like an arrogant, narcissistic jerk offering unsolicited advice and thinking I was being some benefit to the community by doing so. I'd feel like I was overstepping my authority, which I actually do not possess. After all, despite any accomplishments this mythical great player version of me may have, she is still just another player without any rank over anyone else.

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You're looking at it from the wrong standpoint. It's about being a team, and someone needing help. It's like a teammate falls in a race, and you turn around and pick them back up. You may have been faster/less clumsy, but you're a team and you help each other out.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

What? I am not a professional. It's recreational tennis for fun. I do not get paid (in fact I spend a considerable amount of money on the hobby).

The point of my post was that unsolicited advice isn't the enemy.

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Don't have to get paid to be one, amateur-pros are a thing. Most leagues actually get captured by them or young aspiring pros, and not many people do it recreationally. That site definitely is not organizing the tennis equivalent of local beer and pretzel softball leagues. The difference between recreational and pro mindset is that one does it for fun and to relax, the other does it constantly to improve and be ranked. Because again, you have to do a LOT of things that aren't fun to do the latter.

As for unsolicited advice, eh. You are not my coach and not my friend, and you don't have the right to do either. Doesn't mean people should be rude to those that do, but if I want help I'll ask for it.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Don't have to get paid to be one, amateur-pros are a thing. Most leagues actually get captured by them or young aspiring pros, and not many people do it recreationally. That site definitely is not organizing the tennis equivalent of local beer and pretzel softball leagues. The difference between recreational and pro mindset is that one does it for fun and to relax, the other does it constantly to improve and be ranked. Because again, you have to do a LOT of things that aren't fun to do the latter.

As for unsolicited advice, eh. You are not my coach and not my friend, and you don't have the right to do either. Doesn't mean people should be rude to those that do, but if I want help I'll ask for it.

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What is an amateur pro exactly? They're quite literally direct antonyms... Last I checked professional implies that you are compensated for that activity. I.e. Pro athletes make money playing their sport, pro actors get gigs that pay them etc.

Therefore, since I do not get paid I am not a professional.

Also, you made an assumption about something you know absolutely nothing about. USTA does rank people, but most people don't care about their rank. They care about having fair matches assigned and matched for them. I do not play for a ranking or money, I simply play for fun.

Regarding your comment about unsolicited advice, you're making a common misconception. I in fact DO have the right to give it to you. There is no law that says I cannot speak to you. Your feelings are not a protected class under the constitution (assuming you're in the US). What I do not have the right of is being free from consequences from those actions.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

This is some good points. But I still think that the mentor system could end up being useful. The question then become "How to choose a mentor without a direct intervention from a CM?". Plus, there may be some players that actually thinks that helping other is it's own reward, and that there is no need for a crown or a mount to lure them in the system.

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Some players, like myself, have no qualms about helping. As long as the situation requires help. Past experience in another game however suggests that "mentor" systems are inherently broken when they are tied to a reward or achievement. Because people then compete to have the title, not to help. Especially if there is an experience bonus tied to it. 99 mentors sitting in the novice network channel, but half of them are AFK, and they outnumber the sprouts. What does that tell you about FFXIV's mentor system?

The reason there aren't more "new" players in the NN, is because it's hard to tell actual new players from the RMT spammers who aren't button mash names. One day we had the same bot invited back to the NN kicked three times. That simply should not be a thing. There needs to be another way of getting new players to join the NN without it becoming super-annoying for players who are already in it.

But this does go back to the issue about offering unsolicited advice. I bet almost nobody asks random players in the field if they need help if they're just wandering around. No, the only time unsolicited advice is done is in dungeons, and those who do it risk offending the player by assuming they're a bad or stupid player. The good advice giver, sees a player struggling and goes "do you need help?", a determined player sees struggling player and tells them what to do without probing for the actual problem. There is a stark difference between "Hi I'm new, how do heal?" and "sorry emrg w/c"