We need better comunication with the Community team

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Yes you have more than answered it, thanks!

As to the quote above, you don't have to look further than the mobile game crap they have been pumping out lately. I've lost track! I totally agree, arrogance coupled with unrealistic ambition. I have no idea how they thought they could have put 1.0 on a PS3.

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I see...

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

I have to ask: What anger and frustration? Apart from a few loud mouths here on the forums I am not seeing much anger or frustration.
I suppose I could be missing all of it, but from what I can see the majority of players are more or less happy with the current state of the game, and not angry at all.

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I think you may be reading too much into that statement. I think it is more of a point of poking the idea how "displeased"? people are seeing the same thing since 2.x.. ? (when they first started out in 2.0 it was new" then but at some point they kept repeating since then and has not stopped)

People give SE an idea how to literally print money in 2013:

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

It's an interesting idea that we'll look into. :) We don't know for sure if we'll do it, but if you all are really interested in it, we'll definitely consider it!

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I'm confused why there is no update on this.


Also is there some forum function like on wow that lets me jump to a SE post??? I had to hunt it down manually.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

People give SE an idea how to literally print money in 2013:


I'm confused why there is no update on this.


Also is there some forum function like on wow that lets me jump to a SE post??? I had to hunt it down manually.

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Probably something about server limitations. (I'm only about half joking)

I've said it so many times on different threads; being noisy doesn't make you right.

You keep spamming every single thread giving "feedback" and then expect your wishes to become true (I think I've seen you posting on every "negative" thread...). This is not how it works.


People was lost at the start of Eureka. It was a new system that needed some time to understand for some people, but then people understood it and now it's fine.

Do you remember when even the JP community said that you needed like 80 hours of playtime for each relic? Lies.
People was just confused, and the noisy ones started making threads few hours (or even minutes) after Eureka was released, talking about stuff they didn't even understand, while the real players just played Eureka to figure stuff out.

Eureka is not perfect and it needs some improvements, yet this is not the end of the world, it's a good new system for the relics and I bet they'll improve the next step. You just can't expect them to rebuild it entirely in a week just because some noisy players want to.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

I've said it so many times on different threads; being noisy doesn't make you right.

Eureka is not perfect and it needs some improvements, yet this is not the end of the world, it's a good new system for the relics and I bet they'll improve the next step. You just can't expect them to rebuild it entirely in a week just because some noisy players want to.

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The frustrations mostly came from the fact it was delayed for roughly 17 months. In that time, they managed to produce something that should have taken much less, and as a result wasn't as good as it could have been. The anger by the community (and yes, even the JP side of things wasn't all sunshines and rainbows) was justified, though some took it a little far. I was among the vocal ones during that time.

Eureka has been out a few weeks, and while it's not AS bad as people thought it was going to be...it's still content design that I'd expect from some startup company with little to no experience in game design. I know SE can do better than that. If they keep it updated and fix certain problems? Great! That's really all anyone could hope for. But I hope they took to heart the frustration from the player base and put more effort into the game they're trying to build.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The frustrations mostly came from the fact it was delayed for roughly 17 months. In that time, they managed to produce something that should have taken much less, and as a result wasn't as good as it could have been. The anger by the community (and yes, even the JP side of things wasn't all sunshines and rainbows) was justified, though some took it a little far. I was among the vocal ones during that time.

Eureka has been out a few weeks, and while it's not AS bad as people thought it was going to be...it's still content design that I'd expect from some startup company with little to no experience in game design. I know SE can do better than that. If they keep it updated and fix certain problems? Great! That's really all anyone could hope for. But I hope they took to heart the frustration from the player base and put more effort into the game they're trying to build.

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Spoilers:

Then at this point, and understanding Eureka's story, you know Eureka will have more maps, right? They had to build new maps for each relic step, that's why it took so long.

It didn't take them 17 months to create one map. It took them 17 months to create a couple of new ones that will come sooner or later.

So, again, people keep spamming the "17 months" stuff ignoring the fact that SE made more than 1 map, and now we have to suffer new threads every week because people didn't read the story and didn't understand what Eureka is.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Eureka is not perfect and it needs some improvements, yet this is not the end of the world.

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It's horrible. I mean, people really need to stop defending it. If the idea was for people to chain grind mobs to spawn fates their level ranged, it failed. Not just because players figured out an easier and safer way, but the actual chain grinding is horrible and not designed well at all. You get relatively large penalties for even a slight level gap, and the base exp is crappy. FFXIV's combat sucks at chain pulls, because we have pretty high actions per minute for jobs. Recipe for carpal tunnel.

The zone itself is nothing special, Wineport is about as complex honestly. The play actually hurts low levels far more than high ones, and the players have found a way where a small amount of high levels carries everyone else, who stand around and wait. I mean, compared to POTD its really bad, and even compared to diadem its bare-bones; diadem at least let you gather, and had much more content in the actual zone.

People are saying "oh, it's not bad," and that's going to make SE keep spamming it on us with minor if any changes.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

So, again, people keep spamming the "17 months" stuff ignoring the fact that SE made more than 1 map, and now we have to suffer new threads every week because people didn't read the story and didn't understand what Eureka is.

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I know there's more to it, which is why I mentioned the whole "keeping it updated" thing. I also understand the story (I've played through it in its entirety so far, so yeah). Eureka's story and maps aren't really the issue here. I enjoy the story and Anemos is simply beautiful. I'm totally fine with that and look forward to seeing how things unfold. It's how the first one was handled that people took issue with. YAY, MORE FATES...as if they haven't been done to hell and back already. Nothing exactly new and interesting from a gameplay perspective is going on there, aside from the elemental wheel. I hope they expand on that a bit more. NMs are hunts in the form of Fates. Nothing more. Maybe you need to read a bit more into why at least some people don't like it.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

People are saying "oh, it's not bad," and that's going to make SE keep spamming it on us with minor if any changes.

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In all fairness, they've already addressed a few problems I wondered if they would at all. It's a good start, but more is probably needed.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's horrible. I mean, people really need to stop defending it.

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Still better than any other relic step, so yeah, I'll keep defending it against low quality reviews or reviews based on lies.
It needs improvements, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I know there's more to it, which is why I mentioned the whole "keeping it updated" thing.I also understand the story (I've played through it in its entirety so far, so yeah). Eureka's story and maps aren't really the issue here. I enjoy the story and Anemos is simply beautiful. I'm totally fine with that and look forward to seeing how things unfold. It's how the first one was handled that people took issue with. YAY, MORE FATES...as if they haven't been done to hell and back already. Maybe you need to read a bit more into why at least some people don't like it.

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That's the problem, the noisy crowd usually don't know what they talk about, that's why I had to explain the "17 months" stuff, because people keep believing Eureka will be only 1 map.

We still don't know how will be the next step. All we know is that the first step is the easy one and that the rest of steps will be harder, so it's normal that this first step feels boring or too basic.

Still, it needs some improvements for solo/casuals such as dailies or some oprional quests, but in general it's a good start and I bet the next maps will have new ways to upgrade the relic.


Feedback is good, but people should understand what they're talking about before spamming the same mistakes over and over again.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

In all fairness, they've already addressed a few problems I wondered if they would at all. It's a good start, but more is probably needed.

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The one thing they addressed was NM pop in. The other changes don't even matter. The exp bonus is still too modest and everyone still is just doing the train. Replacing sparklers with potions literally doesn't matter; if anything it added one more thing to clutter inventory with, since sparklers still drop; the potions just replace half of them. Nothing really changed much cept now you can actually see the bosses sometimes. It's still the same as it was before, if not worse, since everyone sems to want to do high level fates only.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Still better than any other relic step, so yeah, I'll keep defending it against low quality reviews or reviews based on lies.
It needs improvements, that's all.

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I've done a few HW relics. I'm not saying they are any big work of art, but they never made me stand around half-afk doing nothing because I hit the mob for 50 points of damage, and take 68000 if it looks at me. I've never felt as bored in this game as being part of that train. If you think it's better, well, then idling in Limsa is better than Sigmascape.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I've done a few HW relics. I'm not saying they are any big work of art, but they never made me stand around half-afk doing nothing because I hit the mob for 50 points of damage, and take 68000 if it looks at me. I've never felt as bored in this game as being part of that train. If you think it's better, well, then idling in Limsa is better than Sigmascape.

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So you don't like it because you decided to do a FATE that is too high for you instead of popping lower level NMs. See the problem there?

Once you get enough level, you can even tank the boss without getting one-shotted. If you decide to follow the high level FATE train instead of shouting to make a lower level train to pop lower level FATEs, I think that's not Eureka's fault.

PS: and yeah, still better than any other relic step.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

So you don't like it because you decided to do a FATE that is too high for you instead of popping lower level NMs. See the problem there?.

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No one pops lower level NMS, because SE was an idiot and added no level sync. To get any exp worth anything, you all need to be the same level. You can't do 6 levels up otherwise. And the fate train started in the first week, before anyone could get in the habit of chaining.

And chaining is deathly boring in this game. I used to pull for ffxi merit parties as bard, and even as corsair (doable in a pinch, much harder.) This...all you need to do is be the tank, because the tank is the one who does most of the work. A lot of dps can't even survive the pulls because of the level difference. And it's really boring because the mob HP is low, and its attack pattern is simple. It's just a fate without a time limit, and you keep going till you get sick of it.

Also ffs, what idiot made chains only affect one type of monster? There are camps that have two types there, and you can only pull one kind because killing another will zero out your chain. Even if they are the same level. I mean, all it takes is one aggro and bam, bye chain.

I mean, even if i wanted to play by the rules, they made it an even more boring and fruitless experience than the train. They did not design it anywhere as well as past content; they spent all their time on making the instance work the way it is, and none on the gameplay.

And for the community team, eh. We don't need one if devs just test their things better by having a few JP players test it for them. All of players objections to it surfaced in maybe 3 nights or less of playing; if they had spent 3 nights before they could have pre-empted all our complaints and we'd be happy.

Why do you want to level that fast anyways? Does it really matter? At the end, FATE gives you Anemos Crystals wich are needed for the relic (the AF upgrade is part of the relic as well) and you can just level farming Anemos Crystals.

Once I hitted lv19 I already had enough Anemos Crystals to finish the relic weapon and the 5 upgrades of the Artifact.

Chaining mobs can give you good exp, but at the end of the day all you need is Crystals, so the optimal thing is to pop NM's around your level so you can farm the crystals, instead of wasting time on a too-high level FATE that will only give you a partial of it's exp and no crystals.


Maybe Chains should give Anemos Crystals and that would be a cool improvement, but I'm afraid you've been playing Eureka in the wrong way or in a way that you wasted a lot of time.

Guys...this thread is about better communication with the fanbase and not Eureka..please post the discussion about Eureka itself in the many threads about this and stay on topic. It was only used as an example and not as the main point.

Can we start a GoFundMe so SE can hire a translator (or two) to live translate the Live Letters. That's the only community interaction that actually matters. It's odd how Yoshi-P complains about NA/EU players having odd expectations due to mistranslated statements, yet he does nothing about it other than clam up further, when they could just hire someone to sit off to the side who can translate what he says, going off the same set of notes he has to ensure there are no issues.

Hell naw, I spend enough with this game as it is.

They should work to retain their public, we are already giving them the hint.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

I've said it so many times on different threads; being noisy doesn't make you right.

You keep spamming every single thread giving "feedback" and then expect your wishes to become true (I think I've seen you posting on every "negative" thread...). This is not how it works.


People was lost at the start of Eureka. It was a new system that needed some time to understand for some people, but then people understood it and now it's fine.

Do you remember when even the JP community said that you needed like 80 hours of playtime for each relic? Lies.
People was just confused, and the noisy ones started making threads few hours (or even minutes) after Eureka was released, talking about stuff they didn't even understand, while the real players just played Eureka to figure stuff out.

Eureka is not perfect and it needs some improvements, yet this is not the end of the world, it's a good new system for the relics and I bet they'll improve the next step. You just can't expect them to rebuild it entirely in a week just because some noisy players want to.

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Driving a thread off topic with flame war bait does not make you right. I will happily rip your logic to shreds in the correct thread.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Guys...this thread is about better communication with the fanbase and not Eureka..please post the discussion about Eureka itself in the many threads about this and stay on topic. It was only used as an example and not as the main point.

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I posted this in PVP after we got a community manager to comment on the need for a "burst ready" quick chat command (they said the dev team was positively considering it), but it applies here too:

I wish I knew what things got forwarded to the dev team (and got their consideration) and what didn't (and why).


Like, look at all the threads about Eureka. There's a ton of them in General Discussion, and a handful in Exploration. They keep popping up because people are feeling like their concerns aren't being addressed..or that they're "shooed" away like flies. One of the community members said that they were looking into fixing the loot from lockboxes...as if that was the only thing "wrong".

Awhile back there were a lot of complaints about the user interface on inventory being "expanded" - but people didn't like how it looked and complained about it. The UI designer stepped in and actually explained why those changes were made and why they couldn't go back to the way it was before. He shared what considerations had to be made and other things they needed to keep it mind. It wasn't like he could just "flip a switch" and the UI could go back to normal. People quieted down because they understood why it happened and what the details were.

PVP hasn't gotten any of that and I really wish we did. Like, whoever designed the new crystal tower map -- it's beautiful, but the Wolves Den isn't about beauty. There are these cute little Alphas on pedestals while we're down there slaughtering each other!

As others have said, it's very bright and tiring on the eyes. The job icons are too hard to read and it's too straining to try and focus on the text -- is that a DRG or a DRK?

And Kaposhipi and others kindly relay our feedback to the dev team, which is great...but what feedback gets relayed? and why do we not get a response from the PVP team?

Do they know of the problems that plague PVP (not just Feast but Frontlines as well)?
Do they know our wishes regarding the leader boards, reward structure/availability, and getting chat back?

There are pages and pages and pages of conversation among each other and some of the community team, but nothing else.

Do we need better communication with them, or do they need to reach out more, to us?
Community Managers should do THREE things:

1) Should be able to figure out a way to collate as much feedback information as possible whilst filtering noise.

2) Forwarding that information regularly to the Developers.

3) Engaging with the community, constantly, and giving them a reason to contribute back.

I remember that one big post from someone of the FF14 team. It was about the change to the inventory look and why they had to do it. It was a good and detailed post and at least I could understand it much better after that. Yet this was not posted before the change or directly with the change. It felt like it was posted after a bit of an discussion in the forum about this change and people wanting it to go back. Why not at least tell us about incoming changes like that before they happen? Why often only when the rage and anger is already starting up in the forum?

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

I have to ask: What anger and frustration? Apart from a few loud mouths here on the forums I am not seeing much anger or frustration.
I suppose I could be missing all of it, but from what I can see the majority of players are more or less happy with the current state of the game, and not angry at all.

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If you'd bothered to read the post I was responding to, my "anger and frustration" statement was precisely in reference to the "few loud mouths here on the forums", as you so insultingly phrased it.

That said, there's a difference between not being angry, and being more or less happy with the state of FFXIV. The bland and predictable update cycles will generate anger in a certain subset of players - those of us who are very emotionally invested in FFXIV. For far more people, it will generate apathy. So, go through your Friend List. See anyone who hasn't logged on for months? That's someone who quite possibly are picking up on the same problems as forum loud-mouths like me - they're just choosing to unsubscribe and play something else, as opposed to providing feedback and attempting to fix the problem.

For me personally, that's most of my FC, most of my Linkshells, and most of my Friend List. There was a renaissance around the time Stormblood released (as always), and then a return to apathy for most of them. Eureka, incidentally, did not draw anyone back. And I know of at least four close friends who left permanently because they were bored with SE's content cycles, and two others who frequently take long breaks.

To draw this back on-topic, this is a good example of why SE needs to solicit more feedback. Those of us who get angry, we make ourselves visible. Those who are head over heels for the game, tend to make it clear via purchases (Mogstation, multiple accounts, alts we actively play, etc.). There's very little concrete information about those who just stop playing, though - not even so much as a survey sent to someone's email account once a subscription expires. So neither SE, nor the community, knows whether these players left because of solvable problems, or because of external reasons. This game's player base is like an iceberg; only a small portion of players is visible at any one time. SE should be making far more efforts to reach those who naturally remain quiet.

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Originally Posted by ToriiMiyuki

Do we need better communication with them, or do they need to reach out more, to us?
Community Managers should do THREE things:

1) Should be able to figure out a way to collate as much feedback information as possible whilst filtering noise.

2) Forwarding that information regularly to the Developers.

3) Engaging with the community, constantly, and giving them a reason to contribute back.

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Wholeheartedly agree.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

I've said it so many times on different threads; being noisy doesn't make you right.

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There is no 'right' or 'wrong' when speaking of feedback, which is the purpose of this thread. On occasion there are objectively clever ideas or objectively poor implementations of game systems, but by and large, whether someone enjoys a piece of content is very subjective.

Nevertheless, it's very much in SE's interest to listen to its players. If those players are noisy, great - engage with them. If those players are quiet, go reach out to them. This effort would offer only upsides, even if absolutely nothing about FFXIV's development changes. The only bad feedback, is no feedback.

I think they probably fear that for every question they posed to us, they'd get 1,000 different answers. Of course, that's the nature of a community. I just wish that we could see the impact we, as both fans and subscribers, have on the game.

If you are not Japanese then you are worth 0 attention from SE.
The NA/EU forums and their feedback come 2nd or even 3rd to their list of attention.
Just watch how quickly they respond to the JP needs and feedback.
All we get here is some input from forums mods that they are reading the forums and that they are passing the feedback back to JP.
I don't doubt they do but clearly we are not priority.
The other issue is that JP players want different things than the NA/EU does.
I'm pretty sure there are some difference between the EU and NA as well.
One thing is certain. The communication between SE and the Community is problematic and lacking.
Something needs to be done.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

I think they probably fear that for every question they posed to us, they'd get 1,000 different answers. Of course, that's the nature of a community. I just wish that we could see the impact we, as both fans and subscribers, have on the game.

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Honestly, the most concerning part to me is that SE isn't even trying. There are no post-cancellation surveys, no official forum questionnaires, very few official interviews in which SE actually discusses their internal reasoning. There's nothing.

Now, perhaps the hypothetical fears you posed turn out to be warranted. Maybe, at the end of the day, surveys come back with a large number of wholly distinct answers that can't really be grouped together and used to inform development. OK - then SE goes with their gut, as they currently do. But even IF that happens, they've still got a win under their belts, because now they've got data they can share with the community, and the community knows they asked the questions.

I think that if they will idd ask us questions or surveys, it would simply turn the problem into SE manipulates the surveys/listens only to w/e they like.
Frankly I wouldn't really blame this vision, but imho we should also learn that maybe things aren't simply meant to be or accept defeat.

I'd rather have explanations on why something can't be done tbh, rather than asking for something that cannot be done and then wondering if it's beign considered or not.

Take the glamour plates for example.
What is making so hard for items of a different job to be used as a skin for others? It's just them not wanting it or there's more to it?

Well if they need to manipulate the questions in a survey that would just show them in a bad light. Because at least for me that would sent the signal that they dont really want our opinion and only want to do it their way. But if they were honest with good questions and at least half of the playerbase took the survey they would have far deeper informations than they have right now.

Show some results of these surveys, be open with that and use it to explain changes. This way nobody could argue that they are only doing something that a "loud" minority want. It could be changes that I dont like but at least I would understand why they did them and I could say "well then I was in the minority this time." Right now we simply have no clue about it. Sometimes we will see how the community likes or dislikes stuff by the amount that its played after a time. (Like LoV or Diadem) But most of the time we wont really know if they do stuff because the majority of the community wants it or because the devs wants it to be that way..even if most of us dont.

Heck even if you have x amounts of different views in a survey you could still use them to brain storm new ideas. It could give them a new view on stuff that they themselves might have never considered.

IMO anything would be better than right now. All those japanese interviews that we would miss if we did not have some nice people in the community that find and translate them. All the server visits which are also just translated by the community (and can be faulty). The writings of Yoshida in that one magazine which is again japanese only. If the japanese playerbase would be 90% of those that play it right now I could understand it a bit. But NA alone has at least the same if not even more active players and together with EU we are the majority..and yet most of it is still done for the japanese playerbase..

Problem is you would never know if they are manipulating them or not, because you have no way to know unless you do a survey of your own which then needs to be taken by the whole community and this is already unrealistic.

Anyway, no more update threads on the OF for LL, only twitter newsfeed, but they say will provide digests quicker.
Meh if you ask me

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Problem is you would never know if they are manipulating them or not, because you have no way to know unless you do a survey of your own which then needs to be taken by the whole community and this is already unrealistic.

Anyway, no more update threads on the OF for LL, only twitter newsfeed, but they say will provide digests quicker.
Meh if you ask me

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Yes we might not know but honestly I hope that we can have at least so much trust in them that they will not manipulate the answers in this. Otherwise can we trust them even in anything anymore? And wouldnt that be a horrible thing for a company?

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Problem is you would never know if they are manipulating them or not, because you have no way to know unless you do a survey of your own which then needs to be taken by the whole community and this is already unrealistic.

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It wouldn't be in SE's interest to manipulate any hypothetical survey results. For one, they'd almost certainly be outed by a former employee at some point in time, leading to potentially severe backlash from their customers. For another, if they disagreed with a particular community desire or response, they can simply explain why, and be done with it. It's not like they would be required to listen.

Also, in fairness, by this reasoning, there are a lot of laws and regulations that societal infrastructure that would never have come into being. "Why bother having elections? You'd never know if they're manipulated." Hypothetical fears about potential corruption shouldn't be grounds for not even trying something out.

The person in charge of all the community stuff is taking questions for the upcoming live letter if you'd like to ask anything. :)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Yes we might not know but honestly I hope that we can have at least so much trust in them that they will not manipulate the answers in this. Otherwise can we trust them even in anything anymore? And wouldnt that be a horrible thing for a company?

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Yes, would be bad, I should've been more clear about this beign a possible criticism by a part of the community if they don't get what they want, as in picturing a worst case scenario. I mean what stops us from saying that if we don't get what we asked (personal we) from the survey? We won't really have any proof of the results and as you said we'll have to trust them, but enough ppl seems to me that they have no faith in it them anyway, and consider I trust them still but I'm kinda playing devil's advocate here.

@Vhalinor with all due respect but we already had cases of ppl not accepting a negative response from SE with explanations in the past, that's why I'm beign a bit cautious in regards to surveys

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

The person in charge of all the community stuff is taking questions for the upcoming live letter if you'd like to ask anything. :)

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4633241

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Yes, would be bad, I should've been more clear about this beign a possible criticism by a part of the community if they don't get what they want, as in picturing a worst case scenario. I mean what stops us from saying that if we don't get what we asked (personal we) from the survey? We won't really have any proof of the results and as you said we'll have to trust them, but enough ppl seems to me that they have no faith in it them anyway, and consider I trust them still but I'm kinda playing devil's advocate here.

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We simply wont ever have the 100% safety that they are truthful and that the community will accept it but I dare to say that this would still be the minority of things and if they would be open about it then why should we not trust them? The fear of things happening in the worst possible way can be quite the hindrance.

In the end you can play devils advocate to every single arguement but at least for me such a improvement would have more positives than negatives.

And maybe people have not accepted negative comments from SE before because they feel like really cheap excuses.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

We simply wont ever have the 100% safety that they are truthful and that the community will accept it but I dare to say that this would still be the minority of things and if they would be open about it then why should we not trust them? The fear of things happening in the worst possible way can be quite the hindrance.

In the end you can play devils advocate to every single arguement but at least for me such a improvement would have more positives than negatives.

And maybe people have not accepted negative comments from SE before because they feel like really cheap excuses.

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Wouldn't say it's fear, more about knowing that it can go that way, but you seem to know that it can so I suppose it's fine.
Eitherway it's fine by me

In the end if they don't please many, wouldn't it start being reflected in sales and subs?

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Originally Posted by Remedi

@Vhalinor with all due respect but we already had cases of ppl not accepting a negative response from SE with explanations in the past, that's why I'm beign a bit cautious in regards to surveys

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As opposed to the improved reaction when SE says nothing? Feedback and player involvement will never please everyone. It's almost guaranteed to please them more than utter silence, however.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

In the end if they don't please many, wouldn't it start being reflected in sales and subs?

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Not necessarily. People don't always make rational decisions, and MMOs benefit tremendously from momentum. WoW, for instance, is a piece of shit by modern standards, but millions and millions of people have memories, characters, and friends that keep them active. FFXIV has a similar sort of core, much of it inherited from FFXI and XIV 1.0 - particularly since it's the only major MMO available for consoles.

The major risk right now, as I see it, is new MMO releases - particularly the eventual successor to XIV. Any non-FF MMO that generates significant buzz, anything that draws away entire groups of friends, is going to be a huge threat to XIV if it also features a more responsive development team. And that's to say nothing of the eventual successor to XIV, which may well prove to be an epic flop. I would never, ever invest in a new SE MMO at this point - because they haven't shown any sort of desire to learn or evolve.

Community outreach can resolve these concerns. It can help inoculate FFXIV against the ever-present threat of new MMO releases, and it can help ensure that XIV's successor enjoys a strong, built-in core of early adopters just as FFXI guaranteed such a scenario for FFXIV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

As opposed to the improved reaction when SE says nothing? Feedback and player involvement will never please everyone. It's almost guaranteed to please them more than utter silence, however. .

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No, I'm talking about the community accepting an answer even if they answer is no

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Remedi

No, I'm talking about the community accepting an answer even if they answer is no

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I confess that I'm not sure why you're focusing on this distinction. It seems like you think increased dialogue from SE could worsen things relative to the approach they've taken thus far. Would you mind explaining your reasoning in more detail?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

I confess that I'm not sure why you're focusing on this distinction. It seems like you think increased dialogue from SE could worsen things relative to the approach they've taken thus far. Would you mind explaining your reasoning in more detail?

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I'm sry I'll explain better.
I'm not advocating for no responses from SE, I said to Alleo I would gladly have more infos even on the devs process like the one we had for the UI changes of some months ago.
What I was getting was that however we also need not to find new scapegoats like them manipulating the infos to their liking or us not liking what they answer us

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

The major risk right now, as I see it, is new MMO releases - particularly the eventual successor to XIV. Any non-FF MMO that generates significant buzz, anything that draws away entire groups of friends, is going to be a huge threat to XIV if it also features a more responsive development team. And that's to say nothing of the eventual successor to XIV, which may well prove to be an epic flop. I would never, ever invest in a new SE MMO at this point - because they haven't shown any sort of desire to learn or evolve.

Community outreach can resolve these concerns. It can help inoculate FFXIV against the ever-present threat of new MMO releases, and it can help ensure that XIV's successor enjoys a strong, built-in core of early adopters just as FFXI guaranteed such a scenario for FFXIV.

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As long as XIV is around, there will be players. Look at how long XI has lasted. That said, "subscription MMO's" appear to be dead, as all the MMO's and "mobile" games that keep coming out are basically pretty to look at, but they're just thinly veiled gambling, with no actual gameplay changes between patches. They just keep looking for ways to bilk the player out of more money with the cash shop. Like as much as I hate "dyes and clothing" in the shop, these don't break the game as long as you had a chance to get them via the game normally, and can specifically buy what you want and aren't subject gachapon RNG mechanics like other rubbish mmo's. But I would rather everything in the Mog shop to be available in the game by some normal means, even if it means waiting for that event to come around again the following year.

People quickly burn out of gachapon-fueled games once they realize they are spending far more than they would on a subscription game, and young adults/teens are especially vulnerable to these crappy low-quality P2W games. But in order to get people to pay for a subscription game, the game has to have a high quality appeal to it. So far there is nothing better than FFXIV out there. Only ESO and BDO have come out since that use a subscription model. Neither of them are popular.

According to gamerankings, The only thing more popular than FFXIV is Skyrim. LoL is #3, and WoW is #4. Minecraft is #10.