Housing restrictions not fair for individuals.

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Originally Posted by Lizz12

in my server there is a person who created 2 separate characters and made a fc with the same name and bought a med and large house in the same ward just so they could have a house i am guessing they did this before the update and already had the houses because i think one house per world is in effect now but that is the kind of stuff that isn't right, me personally i do not agree with SE methods on handling this situation but there is nothing WE can do about it but sit back and watch the chaos!!

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Exactly and it’s fucked up that thir thqtncompany who doesn’t address problems right away. I’m an ffxiv player for almost two years and still have no house. This system is just a complete bullshit, it will never get fixed if they keep this up.

While I agree personal housing restriction is unfair, I do regardless empathise and support the notion of allowing legitimate Free companies first access..

But I can already see people trying to exploit this. The reddit now is selling free company tags instead of actual plots.. and I keep seeing more bootleg duplicate guilds popping up in Limsa,


In the end though, someone was going to still lose out no matter what. While I don't agree with the person who tried to argue "wants" vs "needs" when it comes to FC's vs personal housing as this is fairly anecdotal, I do feel the overall increased benefits of a potentially large group of players in a FC do outweigh those of a single person that would reap far less. That and there are some alternatives available to personal housing, such as FC rooms and apartments.

Housing is a big deal to me and i only ever just wanted a small plot, from anywhere, any quality for my main.. but I can wait my turn and just see how things roll out T-T

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Originally Posted by N0R0

The problem with the housing change that most people I think have the biggest problem with is that individuals were allowed to relocate at patch.

I think it's unfair that individuals that already owned a house only had to compete with FCs and no other individuals for brand new plots. To individuals the system they put up only rewards current house owners for already having something 'exclusive' and seems more like a punishment to people that have nothing to begin with. I understand current owners already fought their battle for a house, but obviously they already won it and have a house unlike a majority of people that were screaming about the housing issue after 4.1.

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Relocation was for players that put their time in stuck in a small or a less desirable location. I see that new buyers all want med and large it seems. Put your time in with a small in whatever location like others did and make changes later.

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Originally Posted by Naouu

. While I don't agree with the person who tried to argue "wants" vs "needs"

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I get where these FC players are coming from, but I do find it horrible that they feel the need to attack and belittle independent owner's for wanting to enjoy the game too.

FCs don't need massive houses to get things done and to house all of their members, as long as they have a house to go to then they shouldn't have priority over independent players.

The reality of the situation today is the system is being exploited by people making small FCs and buying houses while they are limited. Just today I saw a guy paying 50k a person to join their guild for a little while (buy a house) then they could leave.

I ask you... What is right about what is happening here...

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

I get where these FC players are coming from, but I do find it horrible that they feel the need to attack and belittle independent owner's for wanting to enjoy the game too.

FCs don't need massive houses to get things done and to house all of their members, as long as they have a house to go to then they shouldn't have priority over independent players.

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If people are going to say that fcs get more use out of larger plots...honestly just admit fcs get more use out of every plot, no matter the size. In most cases fcs have more players using the plot than private owners do. Usually several times the amount of private homes. If we really want to hammer in as much use out of the limited plots as possible, then we may as well argue that houses should be a fc feature only.

But this of course would be unfair as in fcs typically only the officers have furnishing permissions. You can't compare furnishing a house and garden to a fc room. So the option for being a private owner also exists so that players don't get punished for not leading a fc.

I support fcs getting first dibs in new wards, at least sometimes, as it is fact that they get more use out of a plot. But I also support private homes so that individuals can have as much fun furnishing as fc officers do.

FCs don't get any more use out of a large plot than they would any other size plot, unless you really want to count the extra two gardening plots. I'm not sure what this push for keeping larges for FCs only is about.

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

The reality of the situation today is the system is being exploited by people making small FCs and buying houses while they are limited. Just today I saw a guy paying 50k a person to join their guild for a little while (buy a house) then they could leave.

I ask you... What is right about what is happening here...

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There was someone in novice network paying 101k to 3 sprouts to join their fc so they could buy a house..

Another issue that some people may be missing is that while yes many smaller servers ( less populated ) have a flurry of houses available atm due to this, the much larger populated servers fill up within minutes after the patch, leaving a select handful leftover, and those that do make it to when they open them to personal housing will be fought over given the amount still waiting. Given the way things happened it looks more like SE waited till the last minute to throw more houses vs taking some time to look into the situation. Back in 2.4 they even promised to design a better system improving this, and it was never brought up again by them despite community questioning, same happened in 3.x then again in 4.1

There's a multitude of ways they could go about this making it better, bandaids aren't one of them especially when you keep trying to stack them. What kills me is the discord that it causes in the community, when finally 1 area gets addressed while others are left in the dark then people start becoming divided and arguments turn into fights and debates no longer happen as people are to irritated to talk it out. The more people fight the less work SE has to do when people are defending 1 side only without acknowledging that an issue is indeed present.

I'm happy for those FC's that have waited so long, it sucks about the server errors that some got to and still missed out. For those on smaller servers, you'll probably get your houses, for those of us on larger servers, I'm curious if SE even thought about the populations that would be affected by this, in one scenario they could have boosted based on population vs as 1 global change, given that the housing systems are on the servers vs their own like they should have done ages ago ( even mentioned at one point ) I do note that people have suggested moving servers, and for some that is an option but for those that have their friends, FC's and or just group's its harder, given that cross server parties are the only thing that allow people to sync up time to time, so please do keep that in mind when making the argument, we're not here to say its the end of the world because of the lack of housing, just people have the right to voice themselves ( As long as within reason )

Look whats happenned, a huge majority of feedback is on reddit now, especially given the hype about mod's swinging ban hammers on those that do speak up a lot, makes me question IF SE bothers to read it (reddit threads) and only focuses on the forums here where the voice isn't AS loud given the segregation caused by all of this....-sighs-

Anyone remember the event in 2.55?

https://storage.googleapis.com/media...14_Honesty.png

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...6011018416.jpg

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...6433097648.jpg


What happened to this? Content wise we're progressing but despite a lot of feedback for a lot of things , even when SE responds, why is it usually just DC vs action? I honestly wish we could all be happy but given the track record that hope fades day by day.

FFXIV has many great features, just support is not one of the stronger ones. Though then again, we are the western audience and not the original, so there's always that to think about I guess too.... given that we mostly only have a translation team that works on the NA stuff, that goes into detail on the amount of feedback they can provide at times, while on the JP forums I'm sure they have a much larger footprint.

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Originally Posted by Acilith

Maybe those individuals would actually rather play solo in their own fc, than be in an fc with a lot of other people. Social anxiety is a thing that exists. Now I'm not saying they're definitely not flippers, because I'm sure there are some. But there are some folks out there that just want to keep to themselves.

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And why are they more entitled to a house than other individuals, who are currently locked out from buying? People gaming the system because "social anxiety" are still gaming the system and getting an unfair advantage.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

I'm not sure they can 'fix' it at this point.
The apartments are supposed to be the alternative to wards for individual players.

And, they can't force that issue without permanently restricting individual players from purchasing FC houses.
And I get the feeling that doing that would really rile up the playerbase.
(Especially considering some of the comments in this thread about the temporary restrictions)


The devs backed themselves into a corner.
And I don't think they can get out of that corner without pissing some people off.

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If apartments had functional equivalence to housing, people would be more interested in them. If SE offered me a three room condo with a big balcony that can do gardening and place outdoor furnishings, I'd take that and effectively be out of the housing market. That wouldn't cover all the demand, but it would give functional gameplay feature equivalence (as it could do everything a house can do), which would help a lot. Right now, apartments simply can't do all the things even a small house can.

Change that, and you'll at least be giving people a reasonable alternative even if you can't give everyone a plot.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

How are you more qualified to judge what the servers can and cant do than the actual people working with them?

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Anybody who does this stuff for a living is qualified to give an opinion on the technical end of it. How do you know that the reason why they can't is technical ("we can't"), rather than managerial ("we don't want to because it'd cost money")? You don't, that's how. You're assuming it's technical when scaling servers out is dirt easy with current infrastructure. This stuff was hard in 1998. It's not hard in 2018. Making it easy is literally the business pitch behind cloud infrastructure.

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I get that it might work on other games, but they were probably set up differently - I dont know to much about the technic-issues here, which actually leaves me little choice but to trust the devs. If you're saying "No, they're wrong on that!" you're basically saying they're lying - and I dont see why they should?

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The obvious reason is that telling people "we don't want to invest your subscription money in providing the amount of capacity required to give you all a house" is bad PR. You think the devs are just allowed to say whatever they want without management and PR being involved? That's not how a big company works. If they say "we can't" without saying why, that's an entirely true statement on their part, because the unsaid part is "we can't because management won't give us the budget". Which is not the same as it being technically impossible.

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Dont you believe the devs would like to have a better solution aswell?

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If they want me to believe that, they could articulate what they're going to do about it over the long term. Silence is not confidence inspiring.

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Because if you do believe that you'd also have to believe that they just dont have the ressources for that - its not only time invested in that, if I recall correctly they also had issues with not having enough staff-members to begin with a while back.

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If they don't have the resources, whose fault is that? Oh, right... Square-Enix. Their own management is who allocates the resources, and we're customers of that company. If we're getting subpar service because of management decisions, we have every right to be unhappy about it. It doesn't have to be the fault of YoshiP to be the fault of the company we're paying, after all.

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And if you dont believe that... what do you believe then? That the devs created this shortage of housing for their own amusment? That Yoshi-P sat in his office at 4.1 release, with streams of different housing areas on the walls, giggeling over people trying to snatch houses?

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I believe in Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence."

Of course, in this case, I also think there's some Dilbert-esque PHB involved being stingy with the purse strings.

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The housing system is far from ideal, granted - but the solution isnt "Just open more wards!"
Because they cant. What might work elsewhere obviously doesnt work here.
...unless ofc the devs actually do want nothing but an angry playerbase, bad press and the housing-shortage. I doubt that. And thats why I dont doubt that "just opening more wards" doesnt work with their servers.

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They just did, so clearly they can. Amazing how an angry backslash in 4.1 suddenly made them able to open more wards... almost as if the problem was solvable when senior management was suitably motivated. You know what that sounds like? A budget problem, not a technical one.

SE basically has 1 option at this point. Refine the apartment system.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Amazing how an angry backslash suddenly made them able to open more wards..

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This statement right here is what crushes the "We Cant" argument, we've seen them do it when the community gets worked up about it. This exact reason is why we have to keep fighting for it, YoshiP obviously needs a good enough reason to pitch to SE they need to spend TIME on the housing system, which might cost them a little money.

Also based on the quality and stability of the rest of the game I highly doubt the code for housing is "Spaghetti Code", Honestly if the community would cut Yoshi some slack and not be in an uproar over waiting a few more weeks for content then we might actually get what we want.

Somehow I feel like people just want to be pissed off anyway though. :/

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

SE basically has 1 option at this point. Refine the apartment system.

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I can dig up posts of myself and a multitude of other people making posts saying exactly this from back in 2016 when they were first released. It's now 2018 and we've only been given vague "we're working on it" responses. In short- while you aren't wrong, I'm not going to hold my breath.

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

SE basically has 1 option at this point. Refine the apartment system.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

I can dig up posts of myself and a multitude of other people making posts saying exactly this from back in 2016 when they were first released. It's now 2018 and we've only been given vague "we're working on it" responses. In short- while you aren't wrong, I'm not going to hold my breath.

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I am inclined to believe that had the apartments been implemented as the original version of individual player housing, rather than just let individual players purchase fc houses, we wouldn't be in as bad of a situation with housing as we are now...

There would have been years to iterate on the apartments.
Demand for ward housing would be lower.
Perhaps even some of the restrictions and limitations would never have had to be implemented. (Auto demolition, a system the devs have gone on record saying it's a system type they never wanted, but due to their design had to implement.)

I think the majority of the problems with housing stemmed from that one decision.
The quick and easy implementation of just letting individual players purchase ward housing rather than implement what they had promised.
An individual housing system, different and cheaper than the ward housing.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

An individual housing system, different and cheaper than the ward housing.

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And here is where I fundamentally disagree with you here, Having FCs and Individuals coexist in the wards are part of what make it such an awesome place. The freedom to do whatever you want in your little space, apartments would do a lot to sate a lot of people's nesting urge but not everyone.

There is something special to be had with owning a house in this game, and choosing to seperate FCs and individuals would be unnecessary and would be adding another layer of division that doesn't need to be there.

At the end of the day, refine the apartment system so that most of the population will be happy and add a few more wards for the FCs and individuals who want homes still. Problem (Almost) solved.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

I am inclined to believe that had the apartments been implemented as the original version of individual player housing, rather than just let individual players purchase fc houses, we wouldn't be in as bad of a situation with housing as we are now...

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Yep. Apartments are just standalone instances, you can scale up capacity for those massively. By now they'd have had all kinds of time to make them functionally equivalent to houses, too.

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I think the majority of the problems with housing stemmed from that one decision.
The quick and easy implementation of just letting individual players purchase ward housing rather than implement what they had promised.
An individual housing system, different and cheaper than the ward housing.

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Yep. Shortcuts in software development often come back to bite you later.

There is no solution to the housing problem. No matter what rules or system you set up, there will always be those that seek, with full intent, a way to circumvent that system and rules for unfair advantage and gain for the purpose of trolling simply cause they can. There will also be those who feel entitled that their particular special-case desires should preempt the desires of all others, and that the entire Universe should bend over backwards to satisfy their particular case and their case alone, regardless of the affect on others. The problem isn’t the system or rules; the problem is the behavior and mindset of the people playing the game.

As the saying goes, you can please some people some of the time, but you'll never please all the people all the time.

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Originally Posted by DioK

As the saying goes, you can please some people some of the time, but you'll never please all the people all the time.

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What about when nobody is happy except a small fraction of the community? Just because someone owns the house they want, doesn't mean that they're happy with the system and don't complain about it. House or not ill keep saying something until its fair for everyone.

I think people tend to forget that Final Fantasy is a game, there is nothing wrong with wanting to have the things you have worked for. For a lot of people games are a way to escape real life for a little bit, this housing crisis is too eerily close to how things work IRL. Few get everything they want and everyone else is shafted.

It's almost worse in FF because someone who worked their ass off to get the things they want are LITERALLY being locked out of it.

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Originally Posted by DioK

There is no solution to the housing problem. No matter what rules or system you set up, there will always be those that seek, with full intent, a way to circumvent that system and rules for unfair advantage and gain for the purpose of trolling simply cause they can. There will also be those who feel entitled that their particular special-case desires should preempt the desires of all others, and that the entire Universe should bend over backwards to satisfy their particular case and their case alone, regardless of the affect on others. The problem isn’t the system or rules; the problem is the behavior and mindset of the people playing the game.

As the saying goes, you can please some people some of the time, but you'll never please all the people all the time.

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Have enough houses for every paying customer to get one. Problem solved.

^
I
/thread

SE: We want to make housing fair.
Also SE: No we arn't going to ban the FC members who who split up their faction and bought up every house in the ward and then proceeded to sell them because thats perfectly fair.

Completely agree with OP. As a new player I've been waiting months to get a home, new wards open up and I find a spot I like. I figure that if a FC grabs the small plot hey, it is what ti is... but a individual transfers and takes it from me before they open it? Wtf is up with crap.

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Originally Posted by Vivias

Completely agree with OP. As a new player I've been waiting months to get a home, new wards open up and I find a spot I like. I figure that if a FC grabs the small plot hey, it is what ti is... but a individual transfers and takes it from me before they open it? Wtf is up with crap.

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Remember there are multiple wards and subdivisions. There is a chance that your dream plot is still available in one of them, so be sure to check before you write it off when personal purchases open up. Good luck with it!

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Originally Posted by rattles

SE: We want to make housing fair.
Also SE: No we arn't going to ban the FC members who who split up their faction and bought up every house in the ward and then proceeded to sell them because thats perfectly fair.

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I'm curious as to whether this has happened on other servers as well. I mean as bad as the Ragnarok crap.

And I think it would be a bad move for SE to just leave that as is. They're clearly knowingly abusing a system and it is causing grief for other players. SE hardly need to make an excuse to deal with them.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I'm curious as to whether this has happened on other servers as well. I mean as bad as the Ragnarok crap.

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I can say I have not seen anything like this on Jenova. Majority of houses have been moved into by FCs, legit, individual FCs and it's been a vast improvement for our server.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I'm curious as to whether this has happened on other servers as well. I mean as bad as the Ragnarok crap.

And I think it would be a bad move for SE to just leave that as is. They're clearly knowingly abusing a system and it is causing grief for other players. SE hardly need to make an excuse to deal with them.

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On our main server a few FC's including ours did split up to buy additional plots, not the extreme as it was done on Rag. Makes you wonder though how does one define extreme in cases like this.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

Remember there are multiple wards and subdivisions. There is a chance that your dream plot is still available in one of them, so be sure to check before you write it off when personal purchases open up. Good luck with it!

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Doesn't change the fact it is inherently unfair to allow individuals to transfer before allowing first time home buyers the same equal chance.

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Originally Posted by Vivias

Doesn't change the fact it is inherently unfair to allow individuals to transfer before allowing first time home buyers the same equal chance.

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Not really. The point was to give FC a shot at getting a house. Players relocating does not decrease the overall number of houses available since their prior house becomes vacant. Allowing new individuals to grab houses would decrease the total number of houses available to FC.

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Originally Posted by Alyanna_Elingval

Not really. The point was to give FC a shot at getting a house. Players relocating does not decrease the overall number of houses available since their prior house becomes vacant. Allowing new individuals to grab houses would decrease the total number of houses available to FC.

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You are completly missing out the point, we are aware of this, that fc should get priority blablabla, the main thing here that you do not seem to get is as its been mentionned several times while some ppl are homeless & will be happy with a small, a ton of us want a medium or a large (FOR PERSONAL USE) aka, sure its fair to fc to get dib on them first BUT for ppl already grandfathered to be able to solo relocalize to a medium or large when they had a (or several) house already while others that never owned one are restricted for a looong period isnt fair.Thats not correct & im not even mentionning fake fc there.

P.s: stop giving the plenty of small houses excuse, depending on server, goodbye mediums or even more so goodbye larges, in less than 24h on leviathan all mediums plots got taken & by a bunch of solo players, i personally watched 6 get popped in my face.

Also, i am sick & tired of ppl coming to defend the system saying its fair into an unfair OP title, sure you are entitled your opinion, but the title didnt say to give pros & cons. the topic is most definatly doing an affirmation & ppl coming in here trying to claim different are not in the right spot in my opinion, theres thank you posts so ,I do not go in there & say things like No,No thank you!!! that'd be rude.

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Originally Posted by Ruf

Also, i am sick & tired of ppl coming to defend the system saying its fair into an unfair OP title, sure you are entitled your opinion, but the title didnt say to give pros & cons. the topic is most definatly doing an affirmation & ppl coming in here trying to claim different are not in the right spot in my opinion, theres thank you posts so ,I do not go in there & say things like No,No thank you!!! that'd be rude.

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I don't think anyone was claiming the system is fair. It's not. SE either wanted housing to be exclusive or they just didn't think that far ahead/ran out of time/ are morons. Take your pick.
If it's a Medium or Large house or nothing for you then you're probably going to end up with nothing.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Take your pick.If it's a Medium or Large house or nothing for you then you're probably going to end up with nothing.

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Who said i wont go for a small? But the fact is that as of right now, i am being forced upon it as there is no other option & no FC first is no excuse as AGAIN I/WE repeat that single grandfathered players already did get access to that.

P.s: with how things are going right now, it might not even be possible to get a small either on some server that is, (comments like get a small or nothing is the bane of this whole issue).

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Originally Posted by Ruf

Who said(comments like get a small or nothing is the bane of this whole issue).

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No, it's the reality of the issue. Get a small, get on the housing ladder.
Hopefully they will continue opening more wards and if they use the same system you'll be able to relocate.

lots of players actually said things that goes this way of a comment , so pls, stop it, a shit system need a fix, make a flawless number of houses or dont, but do not lock individuals , go post elsewhere to see if i am there if you believe this is acceptable

I really don't like how people keep attacking others that just want their own space.

When housing was released, it was FC only. The wards were EMPTY.

People wanted personal housing, and SE promised us a separate system that would be cheaper than FC housing.

We never got that. What we got was personal housing in the FC wards, and FINALLY the wards filled up.

Those filled up and the demands grew, and SE tried APTs, but it show's no one wants those. Period.

It's very much the same now. All the new wards of house on my server for the most part art EMPTY.

This shows the demand for FC housing are really not that great. But watch, all the houses will fill up when personal houses are allowed again.

Anyways, stop calling people greedy, yes, an FC house can do more, but your WANT of those things are no more important than anyone elses. Yes, I'm sorry. No one NEEDS an airship. The little fc that I am a part of doesn't have one, and I've see plenty that don't. It is a want pure and simple, not a need. We all -WANT- housing.

The burden lies with the dev team to do something, and we should not be belittling one another when this all could have been avoided if SE would have made the system work as it was intending in the start. Separately.

Allowing relocations into plots locked for purchase and allowing individual relocations while individual purchases were locked was a mistake.

I feel bad for anyone who's going to be waiting for a plot that's locked to purchase only to have a house pop into existence in their face...and then imagine they go find the plot that house was in originally only to have it happen again while waiting out the timer. It's insanity.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

When housing was released (Now2018) SE tried APTs, but it show's no one wants those. Period.

All the new wards of house on my server for the most part art EMPTY. (how come are they empty at the moment?)

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Want/need it does not matter, the OP is about how the lock is unfair, & IT IS UNFAIR as of right now unless they add new wards just for individuals after & im sure some players are fine with appartments but i wont generalize that

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Originally Posted by Ruf

Want/need it does not matter, the OP is about how the lock is unfair, & IT IS UNFAIR as of right now unless they add new wards just for individuals after & im sure some players are fine with appartments but i wont generalize that

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I understand the ops statement, but the last few pages are full of people being rude to each other, that is what my statement comes down to, which I stated, but you cut out ^^;