Built-in Parsers

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Originally Posted by Taika

I'm talking about PF group where the requirements are clearly set by the content (enrage or other DPS check) and / or party leader ("must bring good enough DPS to beat enrage") for content where those things matter (Extremes, Savage, Ultimate). I've clearly specified this in my previous posts too, that this should be the content where the official parser is even added (as an optional feature for premade groups). :)

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Ok, I may have missed a bit of the discussion trying to catch up on this as well as a number of other things. So long as the feature is limited to only being available in those situations, while both it and the combat log details that allow third party programs are disabled in all other content, I wouldn't mind so much about a parser being party-wide.

But even there it's not necessary. You can just as well discuss with your party members why an attempt failed. In fact, that will generally do better for you than simply having the parser give out everyone's numbers, because although low DPS can cause a wipe, it's far from being the only problem that can. The combination of personal parsers and a group willing to talk to each other gives you everything a party-wide parser would.

And given that I do think we need the personal parser regardless, and available much sooner, in all dungeons/trials, I think that's what SE should focus on. Provide us the part that's useful everywhere. Remove the part that leads to both inequality of access and to harassment. Then in the specific cases where more info would be helpful, it's content where you should be communicating with your team anyway.

Don't some parties already check logs before inviting? I get that logs are from third party software and thus optional, but an in-game parser would be optional as well, no? What is it about parsers would suddenly turn the PF into a toxic cesspool? I see a few parties that check logs before inviting and, my logs being trash, steer clear of them. The vast majority of parties don't care about logs, or don't say that they do, and it's a much better indicator of performance than dps alone. So why is there such a strong belief that parsers will ruin party finder, burn our houses to the ground, and turn Eorzea into Azeroth overnight when logs provide a much more detailed picture of a player's performance and already exist? Serious question.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Your post is a great example of the Casuals versus the Hardcores conflict I referred to in an earlier post. You call them bads; but, the reality is many of those players have different goals than you. They aren't playing the game competitively. They are just playing a game.

Now, that doesn't mean you are wrong for playing the way you play. It just means you are looking at the situation in the wrong way. If you randomly group with players you should realize all of your group may not be looking at the game the same way you are. I feel the best solution is to form parties with like minded people, much like the original post suggested with its parser options.

Shine on!

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Is the end goal for all content in the game not to clear the encounter? By reducing the boss's hp to 0?

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

But even there it's not necessary. You can just as well discuss with your party members why an attempt failed. In fact, that will generally do better for you than simply having the parser give out everyone's numbers, because although low DPS can cause a wipe, it's far from being the only problem that can. The combination of personal parsers and a group willing to talk to each other gives you everything a party-wide parser would.

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Imagine a situation: a group will keep wiping to enrage despite all members having capped item level gear, no one is failing mechanics and dying, and everyone seems to be doing their correct rotation. The issue is clearly DPS, so party leader asks everyone to call out their personal parser numbers. Everyone is calling numbers high enough that the party should clear the fight without an issue. Of course the real problem is, one or more people are lying. They can be lying because they know their performance is far from decent, or they can be lying because their performance is just a tiny bit under what it should be (while someone else is doing significantly worse). Same with healing: one healer calls a high HPS number, the other one calls one really close to it. Both of them are lying, but no one will know. People who are currently using the dont ask dont tell policy to blame others for their shortcomings could keep doing just that (I have seen people getting kicked for "low DPS" while people doing the kicking were in fact doing much worse, and no one could defend them because they'd risk getting reported and banned).

A group parser would do absolutely no harm, but it would add transparency, and as such, fairness.

Obviously, a group should talk about performance, and parse numbers aren't the only thing that matter: they need to be put in context. But what's a better start for good party discussion about strategies to reach the common goal than knowing where the party is currently standing? Why would there be a need to hide that knowledge? In all likelihood people would just get asked to take screenshots of their logs for others to view or something ridiculous as that (or people would just keep using 3rd party group parsers to see if people are telling the truth about their personal numbers)...

Why does people go againts bullying and toxic players, yet many in here advocate that we need to carry people? No I don't and nobody should feel obligated to carry someone who does half of the stuff a player does. 98% of the content can be done with 7 people, just because you can do it with 7 and 8 can hang around, doesn't mean its fair towards the 7 others. Get a grip. Don't talk about being toxic when you actually force people to do shit for others. What's that word again? Greedy?

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

Is the end goal for all content in the game not to clear the encounter? By reducing the boss's hp to 0?

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Of course! The difference is some players are more concerned about efficiency than others.

Many players get a thrill out of bringing a boss's health to zero as fast as possible. They base their performance against the highest level of performance.

Meanwhile, many other players are happy just being "good enough." If the boss dies, it's a win. See the difference?

It's two ways of looking at an MMORPG. That's why parsers are such a hot topic.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

I was having net issues, but anyone and everyone had a chance to watch any and all live letters. they are archived on both youtube and the forums.
this post and suggestion has come up over 12 times since ARR. A forum search, and google of the live letters would bring up info. People are so keen for others to research content in ff14 with just "google it" as a tip, don't be shocked when others suggest the same for repeat topics.

Yoshida is sick of seeing parser requests that he also noped out from a live letter at an event.

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That's going a long way to say "You should do the legwork to back up my claims for me." To which I say no, and that which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

If you're really interested in using an in game parser to improve your performance why not just build it into target dummies? I don't get the split the queue in parser non-parser group thing.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

If you're really interested in using an in game parser to improve your performance why not just build it into target dummies?

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This has already been answered multiple times in this thread (first time on page 2 and latest time only 2 pages ago with my settings... so maybe consider reading a bit of the thread before replying to it? :)): because your DPS in a dummy fight is a completely different thing from your DPS in a specific fight with specific mechanics. A person may do perfect dummy DPS rotation and still fail a DPS check on their part in a fight. First of all, because you should be adjusting your rotation for each fight, secondly because it's a different thing to perform a rotation when you have nothing else to think about and performing a rotation when you also need to handle mechanics, and thirdly because you need to adjust your rotation to things like buffs from other players. I'm sure these are not the only differences between the two, but they were the ones first coming to my mind.

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Originally Posted by Taika

This has already been answered multiple times in this thread (first time on page 2 and latest time only 2 pages ago with my settings... so maybe consider reading a bit of the thread before replying to it? :)): because your DPS in a dummy fight is a completely different thing from your DPS in a specific fight with specific mechanics. A person may do perfect dummy DPS rotation and still fail a DPS check on their part in a fight. First of all, because you should be adjusting your rotation for each fight, secondly because it's a different thing to perform a rotation when you have nothing else to think about and performing a rotation when you also need to handle mechanics, and thirdly because you need to adjust your rotation to things like buffs from other players. I'm sure these are not the only differences between the two, but they were the ones first coming to my mind.

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So you don't want the parser to perfect your output you want it to know which classes to favor for particular fights?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Taika is talking about using parsers in content where they actually matter: Savage, Ex primals, and now Ultimate. There's no need to use parsers in 4-man content or even 24-man content, and I see far more people harass others without parsers than with them. Heck, I was accused of buying my Savage clears because I lagged out in Ala Mhigo and died to a mechanic. There was absolutely nothing mentioned about my damage--just the fact that I died. I see harassment like that far more frequently than someone saying "Your numbers are trash; please uninstall."

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I just want to emphasise this by adding the sheer number of people I've seen in 24 man raids whining about low DPS when they're being out-dps'd by healers is baffling. They clearly aren't running a parse otherwise they wouldn't be speaking up like that. Perhaps the worst example I've seen was a Scholar in Ravana Normal who kept complaining about low DPS when we pulled without a second tank (they DC'd). This person not only forget to summon their Faerie, but was wearing level 40-45 gear, the friendship Circuit and Brand New Ring. When I called them out, his defense was "I have a level 60 Paladin. I know what I'm doing!!"

https://i.redd.it/n9i9pjl43c6z.png

TFW you poll thread gets shut down, deleted, and you get punished and yet other threads seem to survive. xD

Even google cache lost the thread now. ;_;

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

https://i.redd.it/n9i9pjl43c6z.png

TFW you poll thread gets shut down, deleted, and you get punished and yet other threads seem to survive. xD

Even google cache lost the thread now. ;_;

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Holy crap your facebook notifications, I suddenly feel like unpopulae garbage ;-;

In terms of parsers yes please OMG I want them so much!!!
But seriously I just want to be able to parse myself. I play on a PS4 and I have to go crawling to my friends to parse me on a dummy so I can try to figure out what I'm doing wrong on SMN and SAM.

I honestly feel the lack of an available parser for me is a huge part of why I don't like to play DPS or, to a lesser extent, tanks. I know as a healer my damage is extra and that takes a bit of the pressure off then it's also basically keeping DoTs up and nuking appropriately which is something with very little variation.

SMN at 70 is... not that. I enjoy it, really, but just being able to see where I'm flubbing something (or even where I'm doing well) would be such a big confidence booster for me.

I understand SE had no hand in making the parsers available to PC players but at thid point I feel like they are both aware of them and actively turning a blind eye to them. This is giving PC players an undeniable advantage I can't compete with on PS4. If they're going to be so lax in their policing of parser use (virtually every youtuber I watch has one up at some point) the least they could do is level the playing field.

For the record I am not against their "dont ask dont tell" parser rule as it is now, I'm thankful that at least some people get access to this, but it really sucks that I would have to drop 1k on a computer to also have that ability.

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

Is the end goal for all content in the game not to clear the encounter? By reducing the boss's hp to 0?

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nope, not all content requires a dead mob. :)

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

That's going a long way to say "You should do the legwork to back up my claims for me." To which I say no, and that which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

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like i said I was having net issues.

but free free to pick a fight with me. it was one of the live letters from a fan fest. i don't recall which one off hand. i don't typically lie though.

I don't want parsers built into the game for the simple fact that people would use it for the wrong reasons. However I son't mind people that use them with 3rd party programs. My only request would be that someone makes one viable for console user's so they can be on even ground with pc user's.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

nope, not all content requires a dead mob. :)

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Instanced content featuring combat mechanics, which is the meat of content that people do that you can't get elsewhere. Semantic enough for you?

Given how toxic our community has gotten about player capability, adding legitimate parsers would be a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Nyxn607

I don't want parsers built into the game for the simple fact that people would use it for the wrong reasons. However I son't mind people that use them with 3rd party programs. My only request would be that someone makes one viable for console user's so they can be on even ground with pc user's.

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Consoles tend to be highly controlled platforms (can't just write software for them without jumping through a lot of hoops), and don't support much in the way of running stuff in the background. Built in/in game is about the only realistic option if you want to see it on consoles and you don't think the striking dummies are good enough.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Consoles tend to be highly controlled platforms (can't just write software for them without jumping through a lot of hoops), and don't support much in the way of running stuff in the background. Built in/in game is about the only realistic option if you want to see it on consoles and you don't think the striking dummies are good enough.

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Thanks for the info, I am not a developer or even a techie. Would have no idea if it was even possible lol. I guess I will rely on my FC members that parse to figure out my dps :) Cheers!

Chasing those high dps numbers can be addictive.
There are a few tanks who almost died or did die, i can not remember, when i was trying to get one more holy / stone(x) in.
But seeing oneself out dpsing the damage dealers in certain situations was priceless.

So yes to an inbuilt paraser.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

So you don't want the parser to perfect your output you want it to know which classes to favor for particular fights?

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I'm sorry but WHAT? How exactly did you get that out of what I said? I didn't say anything at all that would (should) give that impression! :D What I said was, a parser must be used during the actual fights so that it will be any use for improving one's performance during that fight - and dummy is not of much use for that.

Also, parsers have been used for the whole time this game has been out and it has never lead to discriminating specific jobs from specific fights (meaning situations where DRGs would not be accepted in OS4, for example, please correct me if I'm wrong). Of course it has shown if a certain job has been in general weaker than others, but SE has been pretty good with balancing. Right now all endgame content is heavily parsed and no jobs are shut out from any content. So where exactly does this speculation of yours come from?

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Originally Posted by Taika

I'm sorry but WHAT? How exactly did you get that out of what I said? I didn't say anything at all that would (should) give that impression! :D What I said was, a parser must be used during the actual fights so that it will be any use for improving one's performance during that fight - and dummy is not of much use for that.

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Originally Posted by Taika

because your DPS in a dummy fight is a completely different thing from your DPS in a specific fight with specific mechanics. A person may do perfect dummy DPS rotation and still fail a DPS check on their part in a fight.

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If your interest is improving your output you can use a training dummy to train yourself for specific fights. The fights are scripted events. Watch a video of the fight and adjust yourself for the mechanics as they come up. It's really not that hard to do. And you can do it with your static to account for the buffs and not worry about rage quits, drama, or exhaustion from multiple wipes.

The only reason you'd use a parser in the actual fight is to point the finger at someone when it goes wrong.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

If your interest is improving your output you can use a training dummy to train yourself for specific fights. The fights are scripted events. Watch a video of the fight and adjust yourself for the mechanics as they come up. It's really not that hard to do.

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Really, not that hard? Can you show me some of your logs from Savage or Extremes, your performance based on dummy training? Or show a video where you're using a training dummy to practice your OS4 rotation? :)

Edit: Now I can't get an image out of my head of myself running around the SSS area "performing OS2 mechanics" while playing the fight in my head (TENTACLE EAST!!!! GO UP!!!! STOP DPS AND TURN AWAY!!!!)

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

The only reason you'd use a parser in the actual fight is to point the finger at someone when it goes wrong.

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I need to address this too. I have been pugging Savage for a while now, every single of those parties has been parsed, and not once have myself or someone else "pointed a finger" at anyone for low numbers, even when the runs have gone terribly wrong. But of course if someone is messing up every single mechanic and constantly dying, thus preventing the group from progressing (in a group where everyone who joined has claimed to know the fight), that has to be pointed out (in a nice manner). And the same way, if someone is constantly doing significantly less DPS than they should be (and not because of deaths or other circumstances that aren't their fault), again preventing the group from progressing (or just forcing everyone else to carry them), that also has to be pointed out. Now just in case, I'm only referring to content where DPS and performance matter, in other words Extremes, Savage and Ultimate. Also, you need to remember all this content is already parsed: it's 99% certain that whenever you enter an instance in one of these, you will be parsed. What an official parser would change would be to bring transparency to this (so that instead of someone claiming your performance is bad without proof, you would be able to see for yourself if it is or isn't), and give PS4 players the access to the tool PC players are already using.

Also, what's with all the people who aren't even doing content where a parser is needed (and what parser is asked for!) complaining about it? This debate does not concern you. If it's implemented as an optional feature for premade parties, mostly used for Extremes, Savage and Ultimate, and you don't do any of those things (and if you would, you'd still get an option to refuse from using it), why are you trying to forbid it from the players who do that content and could use it?

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Originally Posted by Taika

Really, not that hard? Can you show me some of your logs from Savage or Extremes, your performance based on dummy training? Or show a video where you're using a training dummy to practice your OS4 rotation? :)

Edit: Now I can't get an image out of my head of myself running around the SSS area "performing OS2 mechanics" while playing the fight in my head (TENTACLE EAST!!!! GO UP!!!! STOP DPS AND TURN AWAY!!!!)

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Or v3s. Arbitrarily stop your opener for 5 whole seconds and run across the field to simulate Spellblade Holy. :D

The argument for:
It's useful for true min/max tweaking of DPS and raid progression
it helps find the actual weak links/spots in a group so they can be fixed.

Against: People are jerks and WILL use it to exclude/abuse people if they're not measuring up to their standards (even if they are doing adequately).



AAAAND like many MANY laws and regulations out there, this restriction is in place for those precious few who can't play nicely. ^ This is why we can't have nice things people. Cause people are going to be jerkwads about it. Not many, probably not you. But people are going to.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

The only reason you'd use a parser in the actual fight is to point the finger at someone when it goes wrong.

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I just posted in this thread like a page ago why I'd want a parser - to better gague my performance so that I can optimize it, specifically on my DPS classes which are significantly more complicated than healers which are all I've played for a while.

Your statement there is a bold-faced lie.

As to using a training dummy or SSS that isn't the real fight! There is no way you can gain meaningful experience with an encounter without playing that encounter yourself, dummies are great for training muscle memory and testing specific things but that's basically all.

Also what's wrong with figuring out the weak link in a group? If one person isn't pulling their weight then maybe they need help. With a parser you would know, without one you're just gonna keep wiping.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The argument for:
It's useful for true min/max tweaking of DPS and raid progression
it helps find the actual weak links/spots in a group so they can be fixed.

Against: People are jerks and WILL use it to exclude/abuse people if they're not measuring up to their standards (even if they are doing adequately).



AAAAND like many MANY laws and regulations out there, this restriction is in place for those precious few who can't play nicely. ^ This is why we can't have nice things people. Cause people are going to be jerkwads about it. Not many, probably not you. But people are going to.

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And yet again, people who are jerks can be reported. They don't need a parse nor will it make any impact. You can set up a PF right now and kick someone without a single word. They may know it's because you were running a parse but since they have no proof, nothing will happen.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The argument for:
It's useful for true min/max tweaking of DPS and raid progression
it helps find the actual weak links/spots in a group so they can be fixed.

Against: People are jerks and WILL use it to exclude/abuse people if they're not measuring up to their standards (even if they are doing adequately).

AAAAND like many MANY laws and regulations out there, this restriction is in place for those precious few who can't play nicely. ^ This is why we can't have nice things people. Cause people are going to be jerkwads about it. Not many, probably not you. But people are going to.

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But people have the right to exclude whomever they want from their group, don't they? And they already do! There already are "high DPS or kick" party finder groups, and people will get kicked if they don't perform to a group's standards - no matter how silly those standards are. All an official parser would change is to make the process transparent: if you get kicked, you will know how you were doing, instead of being left to wonder (if you don't have access to a parser).

What an official parser wouldn't do is allow being a jerk: harassment would still be a reportable offense. So this argument doesn't really make any sense.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

The only reason you'd use a parser in the actual fight is to point the finger at someone when it goes wrong.

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Exactly. Not having parsers totally prevents anyone from blaming somebody for wipes, failing DPS checks or not doing mechanics properly. The moment we get parsers in our game that's out the window.

I personally had a bad experience with some stupid elitist claiming I shouldn't even be attempting to do Neo Exdeath with my DPS, judging from what FFLogs was saying about me. Never mind that all of the data on there came from other player's logs and was such a small sample of the Savage kills I had done that it was basically guaranteed to make me look bad.

I ended up getting my first OS4 kill the next week so I strongly wish I could find that guy and give him a piece of my mind.

That said, I really don't think in-game parsers are a solution, and would likely just breed toxicity. if anything, I think they should just make clearing Stone, Sky, and Sea mandatory for entering a savage raid, and give the dummies a proper rebalancing so they're all doable at the minimum item level and require numbers closer to what would be considered optimal without raid buffs.

I'll be honest I remember my early wow days and I used to get kicked out of normal dungeons for being low geared and have low numbers because of it thing is in wow you do dungeons to get better gear so kicking people is counter productive to the problem hence parcers are counter productive at least in the way your describing in all hoesty stone sea sky is good enough as long as you can clear it the only problem you have is doing that lvl of dps while doing mechanics

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

And a good parser should tell you where it came from. It should tell you all the damage you do (both damage you do directly and that you do by buffing other players' attacks). It should tell you everything that affects that damage, including splitting out what portion you're fully responsible for and what portion you only got because of someone else's buffs/debuffs.

That doesn't mean it has to tell you about other damage you're not even involved in.

All of these should be listed:

• You got X amount of damage directly
• You added Y amount of damage to other players' attacks with your buffs/debuffs
• You got Z amount of additional damage due to buffs/debuffs from other players
• The damage you were involved in was: (X+Y+Z)
• Your total damage contribution was: (X+Y)

But what should not be included is:

• Teammate So-and-So got W amount of damage

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You've kind of proven my point which is. that all these people that ask for just a personal parser specifically say they don't want top see what the rest of the party is doing. and yet your list above only goes to prove that in order to get an accurate assessment of your personal DPS you DO need to know what the rest of the party is doing. because you need to know those important pieces of information you labelled as "Z" and a personal parse cannot tell you that because in order to get Z you need information about the rest of the party.

What you alos fail to realise is that even if you provide Z without providing the rest of the parties actual dps. it wont solve any of the issues your trying to fix by hiding there dps in the first place. because players will look at Z and call out the rest of the party.
"yo ninja you suck you only contributed 0.5% of my dps what the hell you playing at? do you even know what trick attack is?"
"yo ast you know what cards are right so why are you only accounting for 1% of my dps...."

that's really no different at all than " yo ninja your dps sucks"

You simply cannot in anyway have a personal only parse that doesn't tell you about the rest of the party because without "Z" any numbers you get are absolutely worthless and incomaparable.
and in asking for Z you are asking for information about the rest of the partys performance and as such that parse is no longer personal...

I think this is a big part of why Yoshi says no. because the player base doesn't have a clue what they're asking for . we want a personal parse but we want information about how the rest of the party contributes to be included.... total contradiction.

I fully agree with Yoshis stance. not because i'm anti parser. but because the general playerbase simply doesn't know how to use them and interpret the information correctly. which is proven by the sheer amount of people that believe they can make accurate assessments with only a fraction of the information.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

As of now, if someone says to someone in my party "You're performing really badly!" I can jump in and say "AND HOW EXACTLY WOULD YOU KNOW THAT? are you using a parser, by any chance?" And the guy would NEED to back down or risk bring reported. If parsers are allowed, he is also entitled to do that which is doing. Which is something neither SE nor all the people against parsers in this and in the myriad of threads over the subject condone.

Again, the way it is right now is more than enough. You're free to use it for your personal use, but NOT to JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE'S PERFORMANCE PUBLICLY.

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Do you really think that someone needs a parser to see if someone is playing bad?

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

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You've obviously not done high end content then. The different mechanics can affect your damage output, especially when you're still learning. A normal person doesn't memorize specific timing of mechs without visual/audio ques. Your idea is stupid, considering you don't have mechanics to worry about when hitting a dummy. You won't get an accurate reading at all.

And I'm sick of the complaints of telling others how poorly they're doing... why in the heck should people in high end content carry someone who can't pull their weight? So their feelings don't get hurt? Shove off with that. Savage fights are supposed to be a TEAM effort from EVERYONE. Unless I'm getting paid handsomely to carry, I refuse to let someone mooch off me and my team. I wanna clear, not be held back. I won't be a twat about it, but it's not okay. It's not fair for the other party members.

I support the addition of an official parser. An official parser does not make harassment of others over damage output okay. Why do people seem to think it would suddenly be okay to do??? I wish I wouldn't have to break rules in order to know how much damage I'm doing. I know after hearing how much I've improved on neo, I'm on cloud 9. Bursting with pride. Without people parsing, I wouldn't have known. It's a great tool, but like a lot of other things. I mean, there's people who use tools to kill people, but are they banned by the government? No. The perpetrators get punished, and those who use the tool as intended are still free to do so.

I am amazed at how some people react to this topic with fear, paranoia and crazy responses.

In case you missed the headlines, parsers already exist and are being used. Some people are using them to find out other player's numbers so they can be picky about who is in their parties. Some people are using them to find out their own numbers and improve their game.

This might be a shocker to some people also. There is nothing SE can do to prevent 3rd party tools parsing at least personal numbers. Really. Your client needs to know what damage, healing, aggro, etc applies to your toon. Someone is always going to figure out how to aggregate this data and present this to the player. Since nothing is sent back to the servers when parsing, unless a player says that they are parsing, SE never can know.

What SE can do is prevent your client from finding out any other player's numbers. Why they haven't done this yet is beyond me. And No, you don't need to know any other player's numbers. If a player is not ready for or is not skilled enough for a dungeon, it is going to be obvious enough anyway without knowing their numbers. I'd rather see less crazy people arguing over another player's DPS than have the few who think they need to see other people's DPS for some legitimate reason get these stats.

Lastly, for the people who are all paranoid that even a personal parser built into the client would be a problem, can you prove it? No, you can't. You just assume that people pressuring others for their numbers will be such a big deal. This is the internet people. No one can twist your arm and force you to tell them anything about your DPS. Not only that, but also, you can lie about your numbers. Really, you can tell them whatever you want or just tell them nothing. If their clients are not getting any numbers about you how will they know? And why do you care if anyone else wants to use a built in personal parser? Don't use it if you don't want to know your stats. Assuming SE stopped transmitting other player's numbers to all party members, that information would be between the client and the player only. Do you tell your co-workers all your secrets? No. You don't. Who is forcing you to tell people on the internet things that you don't want them to know? Grow a spine.

I would like to see SE make a client change so no one can see anyone else's numbers and if they did that, there is no reason why a built-in personal parser would be a problem. At least then PS4 players would stop feeling left out. If they don't make a built-in parser I, personally, could care less. I would however, like it if my stats were not transmitted to the whole party though because some people who play FFXIV are crazy and have no idea how to evaluate a player's skill or even how to play nice at all.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

I support the addition of an official parser. An official parser does not make harassment of others over damage output okay. Why do people seem to think it would suddenly be okay to do???

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Because SE is already on record that it's fine to remove people due to low DPS as it's a "difference in playstyle". They're just cracking down on people who use the numbers to harass other people as you're not supposed to have those numbers to begin with, but with a ingame tool you are and the line between "difference in playstyle" and "harassment" becomes much harder to draw.

Lord knows the GMs already seem to have a problem with actually punishing people who step outof line, instead of just opting for the victim to blacklist the person

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

I mean, there's people who use tools to kill people, but are they banned by the government? No. The perpetrators get punished, and those who use the tool as intended are still free to do so.

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Horrible example to make as that varies by country to country, and only the US is really the poster child for maintaining this attitude despite a OVERWHELMING ammount of murders, school shootings, and you name it.

Many other countries DID effectively ban guns, because some people cannot be trusted to own one. And the murder rate dropped like a rock as a result.

It sucks but sometimes punishing the majority is actually the best option as it is the most effective, and I cannot wait for the people crying and begging for a parser in FF14 so they can judge the numbers of everyone else, to realise it.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

I mean, there's people who use tools to kill people, but are they banned by the government? No. The perpetrators get punished, and those who use the tool as intended are still free to do so.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

Many other countries DID effectively ban guns, because some people cannot be trusted to own one. And the murder rate dropped like a rock as a result.

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People who bring very divisive political arguments in an already heated debate about something else entirely should be automatically disqualified.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

Snip

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Uhm I wasn't referring to guns, but okay.