What's up with healers not healing?

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Originally Posted by hynaku

what's up with tanks not telling anyone when there about to do super large pulls and then causes the group to wipe because healer can't target them or heal them fast enough.

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When I tank an expert, at the start of the dungeon I say three little words that make all the difference: "Big pulls ok?"

If the healers says no, then I don't pull big. If the healer says "sure" then I know I'm safe to double pull.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

My advice? Next time you get a healer that DPSes just kick them ASAP. They're just looking to get carried, especially if someone dies while they do so. I have a strict one death/one kick policy with healers and tanks.

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...
*Nervously sweats*
*Quickly checks Malboro Data Center*
*Isn't in same center*
Whew, dodge that bullet.

But meanwhile, I guess he allows DPS to take 50 naps on the floor
per run and not speak a peep. You must hate us heals and tanks...Y i k e s .
Thank God I'm not on your server.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

But meanwhile, I guess he allows DPS to take 50 naps on the floor
per run and not speak a peep. You must hate us heals and tanks...Y i k e s .

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Oh nah, I'm super chatty and social and love to make jokes. I mean, I'm a tank, if I don't break the ice who will? Incidentally, the only time dps take a dirt nap is when the healer ignores them after raid wide AoE for the sake of more DPS, so... have fun with that?

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

As someone who plays both tank and healer... yea this is a thing. Much like how some tanks will suddenly sprint to grab more adds leaving the healer behind...

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This annoys the hell out of me even as dps. Tank seems to stay in the one spot and as i am casting, freaking tank takes off.. That rattles me, lol

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Originally Posted by Maero

This annoys the hell out of me even as dps. Tank seems to stay in the one spot and as i am casting, freaking tank takes off.. That rattles me, lol

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I actually used to do that (ran off just before the mobs had died, thinking they would die before I got to the next pack, for a "rolling rotation" as I call it). Someone explained to me why that's a bad idea with a BLM, because of how they're essentially a turret. I apologised and learned from it. I no longer do that. Though sometimes right before the last mob has died I will stun it (if it hasn't got any stun resistance from things like Holy spam), leaving the DPS with 6 seconds to kill it while I go off and move towards the next pack of mobs. So far, I haven't been advised against that. If it turns out it is a bad idea and someone explains to me, then yes, I'll stop doing it.

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Originally Posted by Maero

This annoys the hell out of me even as dps. Tank seems to stay in the one spot and as i am casting, freaking tank takes off.. That rattles me, lol

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That's the time I type "Tanks for the memory" and leave them to it. Tends not to happen again.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

O1n-o4n: incoming tank buster, pop cd. Wait for heals, wait for heals, wait for any type of heal, boom die to auto attacks.

I just don't get it, I'm usually the only one taking damage at that time. Why you let me die? Q.Q

It happens at least 4 to 5 times a day. I know I'm a PLD, but I shouldn't be forced to use clemency as a cd every freaking tank buster.

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O1N - O3N have tankbusters? These fights barely need any Tank healing, it's mostly both healers dpsing 90% of the fight, and i have never seen a tank dying in there..

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Originally Posted by Charisma

O1N - O3N have tankbusters? These fights barely need any Tank healing

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It is because almost everyone doing that in their i330. Do it at base ilevel and lets talk again about it. Sometime I wonder why some people goes there when loot is sub their armor, maybe helping friends?

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Sometime I wonder why some people goes there when loot is sub their armor, maybe helping friends?

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To gear other jobs?

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

It is because almost everyone doing that in their i330. Do it at base ilevel and lets talk again about it. Sometime I wonder why some people goes there when loot is sub their armor, maybe helping friends?

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weekly tomes since it's in most cases quicker then regular dungeons. Some people don't wanna do pvp or potd for it. But that's also the reason most people don't go at the end of the week or on weekends, and get it done right after reset, because that's the only time you can keep your sanity.

Speed of tome acquisition is something I don't understand, you have a full week to cap them, doing it in a day does not change much. Maybe lesser tomes for alt jobs can make sense, yes.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Speed of tome acquisition is something I don't understand, you have a full week to cap them, doing it in a day does not change much. Maybe lesser tomes for alt jobs can make sense, yes.

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Sorry but I don't. I have 2 days out of the week that I can play due to my personal life and my job. I don't feel like logging into the game after a 12hr day etc. Or sometimes I might have other plans over the week, the game isn't my first priority, so getting that out of the way right at the beginning of the week, isn't that bad tbh. Many others are in the same boat.

I never say anything about healers in any content unless it's Savage. If they're healing OK, they're fine, they're doing what they queued up to do. If they DPS while healing, it's a nice bonus, all it is.

Their are varying levels of skill when it comes to playing jobs. Are 0 DPS heals lazy? Not exactly a statement of being lazy without looking at the background and reasoning. Perhaps the tanks undergeared, DPS eating AoEs, healer undergeared/meeting min ilv checks, etc.

So all I'm saying is, in regular daily ran content, don't get upset at healers being just healers if they're doing their job correctly. They just needed the DPS skills to get past solo content, that's all, any DPS in group content is a bonus. Remember, SE doesn't take into account healer DPS when designing battles, so if a healer does DPS, it's a bonus.

Pure DPS healers are probably what happens if you ignore the above and tend to pigeonhole not DPSing as being bad and not doing your job.

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

I have 2 days out of the week that I can play

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Will understand, got in that boat quite often too. It is just, when time is low and priorities other, rushing for something in game feels pointless in the long run and I'd prefer take it easy over capping tomes.

Edit: I guess we got a bit OT, sorry OP :*

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

It is because almost everyone doing that in their i330. Do it at base ilevel and lets talk again about it. Sometime I wonder why some people goes there when loot is sub their armor, maybe helping friends?

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I did omega as tank ilvl 300 and tanked the shit without tank stance. What you on about? Both healers did over 1.2k dps too.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Oh nah, I'm super chatty and social and love to make jokes. I mean, I'm a tank, if I don't break the ice who will? Incidentally, the only time dps take a dirt nap is when the healer ignores them after raid wide AoE for the sake of more DPS, so... have fun with that?

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that is one sour puss right there, a tank this high needs more than healing, they need a hospital.

I would gladly take a 30 min lockout just for you

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

You have thin air, Saints and assize. I solo healed it on first try since healer dc. I dpsed and kept people alive, so you must be doing something terrible wrong like over healing. Whm shouldnt have mp issues.

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Not saying that I run out every time. I don't have issues if people aren't dying constantly and the co-healer is at least contributing to some extent. It's more of a problem with running out when things are going very wrong, such as DPS constantly eating the floor from not dodging (you can't always get multiple raises off during Thin Air if you end up dodging multiple AoEs yourself), and occasionally with tanks who refuse to use tank stance & cooldowns (they need almost constant babysitting to keep them up. Sometimes Stormsplitter will still one-shot them, which usually results in more chaos). When SCHs are just sitting there with nearly full MP while people are either dead or about to die, something is horribly wrong with that SCH, since at that point they obviously should be trying to do SOMETHING as far as emergency healing instead of just sitting there continuing to DPS 100%.

I healed the omega normal floors for the first time today and I'm even more confused about this topic than before. Floors 1-3 don't require barely any healing at all (and don't really have any tank busters), healing them for the first time I was able to do around 2k DPS in each as WHM (and sometimes had higher HPS than my cohealer so I didn't leave healing to them). In floor 4 some AoE healing was required for Meteors and other AoEs, but the tank busters did barely anything (and I was doing over 1k DPS on the first run I did there too). For most part in each floor, tank was well covered with Regen (+ Fairy if SCH co-healer) and occasional Assize / Asylum.

I did not see healers who wouldn't heal, but instead some pretty impressive overhealing, such as casting Medica on the party while there were already two Medica II regens ticking on everyone and no incoming damage in near future, or Cure III on party while I had already Medica II ticking and used Assize as soon as an AoE hit landed... :D

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Originally Posted by Taika

but instead some pretty impressive overhealing, such as casting Medica on the party while there were already two Medica II regens ticking on everyone and no incoming damage in near future, or Cure III on party while I had already Medica II ticking and used Assize as soon as an AoE hit landed... :D

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You just described a lot of forum healers lol.

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Originally Posted by Taika

...Floors 1-3 don't require barely any healing at all...

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O1 have Charybdis, an unavoidable aoe that makes the party go 1% hp. There it needs heavy and fast healing.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

O1 have Charybdis, an unavoidable aoe that makes the party go 1% hp. There it needs heavy and fast healing.

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Charbydis is coming.
After that Lightning Bolt YES/NO?
Lightning Bolt YES!
/cast Clemency @ OT
/cast Clemency @ OT
Lightning Bolt No!
/cast Clemency @ Healer 1
/cast Clemency @ Healer 2

I have yet to see anyone notice or mention me doing that.
In ANY dungeon. Or Raid. Or Extreme Trial.

Clemency is on of the most awesome skills the Pld ever got. 95% of the tanks dont use it (made up number i evaluated after playing Whm/Sch/Blm/Smn) and when i do it, noone cares.

A bit sad considering it saves people on a regular basis...

As a tank myself I do like to DPS myself while using serious cd for attacks that do high damage, if a healer wants to DPS that's fine but do keep me alive. I do switch to tank stance if a healer can't keep me alive or barely. Tank DPS > healer DPS and if I keep aggro and use my defensive cd - atleast I do my job, but a healer that can't keep the party alive shouldn't DPS. I don't care if you want to help the party's DPS - you qued as a healer, so do your main job and if u can DPS a little that's a plus, not a necessity or que as DPS.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

O1n-o4n: incoming tank buster, pop cd. Wait for heals, wait for heals, wait for any type of heal, boom die to auto attacks.

I just don't get it, I'm usually the only one taking damage at that time. Why you let me die? Q.Q

It happens at least 4 to 5 times a day. I know I'm a PLD, but I shouldn't be forced to use clemency as a cd every freaking tank buster.

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Oh, oooooh! I see. I thought we healers were supposed to be DPSing the entire time. That's what everyone keeps telling us. A healer hanging out and, you know, healing, thus not DPSing, is a terrible healer. Ask anyone. ;O

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Clemency is on of the most awesome skills the Pld ever got. 95% of the tanks dont use it (made up number i evaluated after playing Whm/Sch/Blm/Smn) and when i do it, noone cares.

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Because unless the run is heading towards a wipe your clemency isn't helping as much as you think it is, if I'm saving a lustrate or tetra for a tank buster I'm not gonna sit there and wait to see if a PLD is gonna use clemency, I'm gonna heal regardless of what you do, most healers will either plan their heals without your clemency or react to damage as soon as they see it instead of waiting for your clemency.

So the rule of thumb is, burn MP on holy spirit unless the run is heading towards a wipe, the faster you kill the boss the less likely mistakes will happen and the 400 potency holy spirit helps with this.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

when i do it, noone cares.

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It's a healing spell. No one notices when you're casting healing spells. It's some bug that happens only on healing spells. I mean, objectively they notice because they aren't dead but it doesn't go beyond that. That why you see all these hater healer threads about healers just standing around doing nothing. They're alive and they finished the dungeon/raid, so objectively they must've had a heal at some point, but this bug completely wipes the minds of the other party member. It's a very selective, very strange bug.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Everything

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I disagree. The Twillight Bolt after Charbydis is a tankbuster with what... 30k Dmg on both? So, me casting 2x Clemency is allready ensuring that both tanks won't be dying.
If, e.g. one healer didnt pay attention and is only AOE-Healing instead of boosting up us tanks, that can allready mean the OT will die.

Noone said Clemency prevents wipes when you are closing in on it. But it defenitely ensures a much smoother and safer run.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

O1 have Charybdis, an unavoidable aoe that makes the party go 1% hp. There it needs heavy and fast healing.

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Yeah I know, oh no I had to actually heal twice during the fight because of those!

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

O1 have Charybdis, an unavoidable aoe that makes the party go 1% hp. There it needs heavy and fast healing.

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Hmmm...yeah you do have to quick heal to make sure no one dies, but you can heal the damage in 1-2 GCDs. I personally wouldn't call that 'heavy' healing, but I guess some might consider it so.

A powered up Earthly Star, or a Largesse Cure III/Medica (+ Plenary if you so desire), or a Idom + Succor is enough to make sure the group won't die after the hit. If you time a heal it isn't dangerous at all especially since Charybdis has quite a bit of a cast time. The party just needs enough HP to survive anything that comes after. If both healers use some AoE healing likely each one just needs one GCD and the party is alright again.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

I disagree. The Twillight Bolt after Charbydis is a tankbuster with what... 30k Dmg on both? So, me casting 2x Clemency is allready ensuring that both tanks won't be dying.
If, e.g. one healer didnt pay attention and is only AOE-Healing instead of boosting up us tanks, that can allready mean the OT will die.

Noone said Clemency prevents wipes when you are closing in on it. But it defenitely ensures a much smoother and safer run.

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I'm telling you you're overestimating how much that is helping, if one healer isn't healing before a tank buster in savage then that healer needs more practice, what do you think is gonna happen when a healer like that is paired with a WAR, a DRK, or a PLD that is spending MP on HS? The majority of healers will know what to do and your clemency is just causing them to overheal as they will still cast their heals on you.

Of course you can keep doing it if that's what you're comfortable with, but I'm explaining why you feel like no one cares, no one is gonna notice something that is not necessary.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Noone said Clemency prevents wipes when you are closing in on it. But it defenitely ensures a much smoother and safer run.

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I can verify the truthiness of this with a fun story.

Just got out of a Lakshmi Ex run. The OT couldn't hold second enmity to save his (everyone's) life. He took that OT buster exactly one time in the course of things and was one shot, because she was in her emo goth phase and he didn't use a vril. Everyone else took it, mostly dying. There were corpses littered everywhere. Did this heroic OT freeze up? Absolutely not. He did what he knew he had to: he spam healed the MT with clemency. We didn't wipe.

I leave that group and sign up in DF. Manage to get the same OT. I don't think he took one of the OT busters at all. He also brought up his game when he managed to kill half the team in one fell swoop (myself as healer and all the DPS.) We got everyone up (without using healer LB3) and even managed to kill her without a wipe (it was very close though.) All the while this plucky OT is helping out by healing the MT.

Where would we have been without clemency? Thanks clemency for making a smoother and safer run! :'D

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

I disagree. The Twillight Bolt after Charbydis is a tankbuster with what... 30k Dmg on both? So, me casting 2x Clemency is allready ensuring that both tanks won't be dying.
If, e.g. one healer didnt pay attention and is only AOE-Healing instead of boosting up us tanks, that can allready mean the OT will die. .

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What? Like seriously, what? When I tanked it as PLD, I did cover on the OT and ate 34k in total. So if you get hit for 30k per hit, something is very wrong.
Also if the healer can't heal that, he needs to get away and learn how to heal again really. I mean... I did 1.5k dps as whm the very first run i did, sooooooooooooo main healers shouldn't have issues....

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Originally Posted by alimdia

So the rule of thumb is, burn MP on holy spirit unless the run is heading towards a wipe, the faster you kill the boss the less likely mistakes will happen and the 400 potency holy spirit helps with this.

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I fully agree with this, I wouldnd clemency at all, unless I REALLY needed too, but thats super rare. If a healer can't do this, then they shouldn't even been there in the first place.

Clemency is great. People kinda overhype Holy Spirit; yeah 400 potency whatever but because it's not an instant action it's delaying your auto attacks, so that's sort of a potency cut right there that nobody ever seems to want to mention. Still wouldn't really ever advise using it outside of Requiescat unless you desperately needed the gauge boost.

Paladin overpowered, nerf (Yes, please). Buff war pls.

I put priority on healing. That means there are some tanks doing big pulls that I simply can't DPS during. Maybe it's the tank's gear, maybe the tank isn't using CDs, maybe it's just the mobs and how hard they hit. I haven't yet been criticized for not DPSing in those situations but if I was, the only thing I could say is to split up pulls. Luckily, as I said, I haven't met a tank that brainless yet.

In that case, the big issue is that atm, we aren't all in "OMG WTF epic sugoi-as-hell ilv over 9000" gear like we were before SB, when everything was kinda a pushover.

As for simply not healing...I dunno. I'd assume you made them mad. If not, I dunno.

Wasn't it pushed pretty hard for a while to have healers DPS like crazy?

I get DPSing a little but some people were dogging healers about that and as a result that probably stuck.

Then you haven't played in duty finder long enough. Around 80% of all healers I get are DPS pretending to be healers to get better queue times. It got so bad that I now only play PLD to be able to at least cure myself instead of wasting time on a wipe. PLD rotations are very specific and every time I need to heal myself it messes the rotation. But at least I am not wasting time on a wipe. I used to only give the commendations to healers, because they usually did the job. Lately I have given them to DPS due to healers not doing their job.

The community should decide if healers should do dps or heal, doing both is a bit difficult. Also this pld should learn how to use def CDs and Selfheal, complaining that he dies from autoattacks without healer is funny. :D

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Originally Posted by Missbone

The community should decide if healers should do dps or heal, doing both is a bit difficult. Also this pld should learn how to use def CDs and Selfheal, complaining that he dies from autoattacks without healer is funny. :D

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The community has decided: DPS unless you need to heal. Simply put, this game doesn't have nearly enough outgoing damage for healers to primarily heal. You'd literally stand around doing absolutely nothing for upwards of 90% of a given dungeon or raid.

Imagine bumping a thread from over 3 years ago to complain about this. This horse has been beat into a bloody pulp well before now.

The community has already decided: healers should DPS during downtime when they aren’t having to heal; and no, this isn’t difficult to do. Especially since healers have so many off-globals or instant casts for healing at their fingertips, and their healing is overpowered for most content. Considering the amount of damage healers actually do, it would border on griefing for them to not contribute to damage. The only exceptions are learning/baby healers that are trying to get comfortable with juggling both.

As a new-ish player I want to point how absolutely confusing and contradictory advice can be when its given either here, in the forums, or in game. I've been playing for about 3 months, and I feel like every once in a while I'm given advice (or stuff I read here!) that contradicts what I was told before, and then again, and then again. In the end I feel like I'll never do a good enough job, and I won't be able to please everybody in the party. Cause everyone has such different opinions. Pull less, pull more. Heal more, dps more. Spam this. Spam less of that. :rolleyes:

Jokes aside, I try to adapt to every situation differently.