What happened to SB (story)?

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Originally Posted by Felis

A huge load of aether.
Be it from piles of crystals, a light crystal (that will kill the owner of the light crystal) or from 2 dragon eyes

And a storm of emotions. It don't have to be religious emotions. I'm sure Tiamat had no religious emotions while she summoned her dead husband as a primal 5000 years ago.


It was a single dragon who summoned Bahamut, not a slew

https://youtu.be/R3kTEy710Ss?t=85

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We were discussing the ones being tortured by the Alagans to keep B summoned, not his origin. Speaking of which, why did they do that? Was there a purpose for it beyond just being dicks?

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

We were discussing the ones being tortured by the Alagans to keep B summoned, not his origin. Speaking of which, why did they do that? Was there a purpose for it beyond just being dicks?

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If he "died" then he could have been re-summoned, then the Allagans would have to fight him all over again. Trapping him with tempered followers prevents his death and removes the possibility of him being re-summoned elsewhere.

Probably also partly because they were dicks.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Really what bothered me is how SE basically jokes around about how you supposedly cannot defeat primals alone, while according to the ARR and HW story you do all the time without any help.

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No, you don't. There is more than 1 WoL. Many instances where you fight a primal, you are told to go gather some adventures (other WoL) to help you with the battle.

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Originally Posted by demonofelru

No, you don't. There is more than 1 WoL. Many instances where you fight a primal, you are told to go gather some adventures (other WoL) to help you with the battle.

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I heard somewhere the lorebook says otherwise, so the canon could be questionable there. For instance: why don't they show up in or around cutscenes? For specific fights it also makes no sense for you to not be solo--like against Ramuh. Where'd you get the 4 extra "WoL" to fight the final boss of SB? (I say 4 due to having a 4 man dungeon immediately preceeding--though your three friends are mysteriously gone as well) You are definitely canonically solo against the HW final dungeon and boss.

EDIT: The lore does point out you're not the only one with Echo, but again, having a full party of eight in a lot of those instances...doesn't make a lot of sense.

Well, basically, SB wasn't an expansion about a war, or a fight for freedom between two nations.

It was, literally, a huge excuse to go to Doma. This is just FFXIV gone eastern style. All the detail is out into making FFXIV as eastern themed as possible, and to hell with how lackluster the story is. Ala Mhigo felt like an afterthought rather than our reason for everything. Heck, a lot of the time in the story, I asked myself why no one didn't do this before if it was as simple as taking over a couple Castrums and killing Zenos. Heck, it would have been even easier before Shinryu came into the picture.

HW felt like we were up against actually dangerous people. Gods. Dragons.
SB we're up against a guy who's for whatever reason the strongest thing ever. And we needed the entirety of Doma for that?

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

It was, literally, a huge excuse to go to Doma. This is just FFXIV gone eastern style.

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I could excuse this if

1) They hadn't forced Ala Mhigo to be the bookends. Honestly, I'd say stay away from it entirely unless you're going to pay off the idea that the full weight of Garlemald will soon be storming into our domain, but either way... If they had to start us off there, just give us the Fringes and Rhalgr's Reach, then end that story after the resistance is crushed for now.
2) Doma felt like more than a small city. If the rest of it was just superfluous and Doma was to be the star, make Doma actually feel like a grand, interesting place. Have a large city (Garlean-held, ruins, or whatever) like Kugane, small fishing villages, a zone full of small farms and trade-routes, some mountain towns, and a hidden Shinobi community. Give us something more than a few ruinous buildings, a castle/dungeon, and a village with a dozen NPCs.

Doma was someplace I wanted to visit ever since Yugiri and the refugees were introduced, but now I'd honestly prefer it just remained untapped potential...

:-/

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

And this I think, is where you're getting your wires crossed. Humans of earth of Earth are people of faith. We believe lots of stuff that we hope is true. That isn't the same thing for the setting of FFXIV, though. The greater races of Eorzeans aren't "people of faith." They live in a world of Godly literalism. They don't believe that their world was created by a goddess in the shape of a large white crystal. They know that it was as a literal and demonstrable fact.

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No. By and large, no.
There very much are religions and institutions of faith within Eorzea. There are cathedrals, there are rituals and services to the twelve, and there are certainly those who disbelieve or are ignorant of others within them. For the most part, many people in Eorzea 'know' of Hydaelyn, but don't offer her worship in any way. Some are certainly skeptical of her, because she 'only' seems to commune with people who have her blessing, IE the WoL, Scions, and the former Scholars of Baldesion. To say there's 'literalism' within Eorzea is incorrect, as at no point are the Twelve actually within existence, (that we know of yet) and they're likely powered and fueled by religion in that same way that Primals are. This isn't Dungeons and Dragons, Bahamut himself isn't giving clerics magical spells and miracles for worshipping him, and primals are not in-fact gods. A RECURRING THEME within the narrative, is the Scions trying to convince the beastribes that what they THINK is a God, is in fact, just a primal, an artificial construct of their zeitgeist and zeal.

And to say that it's 'demonstrable' would mean that people have, through study and example, can prove Hydaelyn exists and created Eorzea is partially true. The Scions know it because they've talked to her, the Scholars similarly, but at the same time there's limited solidifying fact from THEIR perspective that it's all true. Louisioux was an agnostic partially because he questioned Hydaelyn and the state of cosmic conflict she has with the Ascians and Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

Louisoix himself wasn't a particularly religious man, but according to Alphanaud, he nearly "Unleashed the power of the twelve when he tried to bind Bahamaut. " If a Sharlyan agnostic can almost bring about ragnarok, then why couldn't a guy like Ilberd? The further the game's story goes, the more we learn that there are no rules set in stone when it comes to the gods. "If you have sufficient motivation, and enough resources, you can call up whatever you want", is basically what we've learned.

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He unleashed their power by going through a very religious ritual, marking stones with the religious symbols of the Twelve and offering prayers. Also worth noting, this plan, FAILED Bahamut was bound by Louisoix's magic, not the twelve's.
It's far more believable that Lousoix was capable of this, because he was an Archon, lived his entire life studying magic, was shown and spoken of to be a mage of almost unreachable renown, and had Tupsimati, an artifact written to have as much of a magical significance as other similar McGuffins (Such as stupid eye balls)
The fact that Illberd, a random Mercenary of no stated magical prowess or knowledge until he somehow summons a primal that can allegedly rival Bahamut... You see why this isn't consistent yet? Illberd didn't 'earn' the right to seem that powerful.

And again, the ultimate point here. If 'anyone' can summon primals like that, there should be far more primals. It's completely unbelievable that some subjugated mortal race in any of the 5,000 years the Twelve have been in their pantheon has not successfully summoned one. At LEAST with the rules that were seemingly established throughout 2.0, it was somewhat believable.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

The fact that Illberd, a random Mercenary of no stated magical prowess or knowledge until he somehow summons a primal that can allegedly rival Bahamut... You see why this isn't consistent yet? Illberd didn't 'earn' the right to seem that powerful.

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I think the implication is the Ascians explained to him how to do it to the letter; I agree it's something he wouldn't have been able to pull off alone. The Ascians explained to Tiamat how to summon Bahamut as a Primal, for instance*.


*IIRC

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

The fact that Illberd, a random Mercenary of no stated magical prowess or knowledge until he somehow summons a primal that can allegedly rival Bahamut... You see why this isn't consistent yet? Illberd didn't 'earn' the right to seem that powerful.

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He had help from the dark side

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Originally Posted by Felis

He had help from the dark side

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Yes, I'm aware. It's obvious to anyone that was paying attention.

How is Bahamut, a direct son of a direct Spawn of Hydaelyn herself, (Who was also probably helped by the Ascians to summon him as a primal) who was then brought back as a perfected vision of his former self, via two LIVING dragon eyes, equal in power to a completely fabricated being of nebulous rage, with a couple dozen dead soldiers (some of whom were athiest) and two well drained dragon's eyes?

The SB story was a substantial disappointment. I expected more following HW. Zenous though.....Wow!! Talk about terrible.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Yes, I'm aware. It's obvious to anyone that was paying attention.

How is Bahamut, a direct son of a direct Spawn of Hydaelyn herself, (Who was also probably helped by the Ascians to summon him as a primal) who was then brought back as a perfected vision of his former self, via two LIVING dragon eyes, equal in power to a completely fabricated being of nebulous rage, with a couple dozen dead soldiers (some of whom were athiest) and two well drained dragon's eyes?

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Bahamut is not Hydaelyn's son, firstly--he's a member of the First Brood, direct descendants of Midgardsormr. A status that Tiamat and Nidhogg shared. Beyond that, the best I can say is the Ascians know more about summoning primals than we do--they've been at it longer. Anger and aether have summoned primals before. Perhaps someone on the lore forums, maybe Anonymoose, could better answer these questions.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Bahamut is not Hydaelyn's son, firstly--he's a member of the First Brood, direct descendants of Midgardsormr. A status that Tiamat and Nidhogg shared. Beyond that, the best I can say is the Ascians know more about summoning primals than we do--they've been at it longer. Anger and aether have summoned primals before. Perhaps someone on the lore forums, maybe Anonymoose, could better answer these questions.

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I think during the Allied Beast Tribe(ARR one) that there was a primal summoned by grief. It's been a little while since I've done it, so can't be 100% sure on it.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Bahamut is not Hydaelyn's son, firstly--he's a member of the First Brood, direct descendants of Midgardsormr. A status that Tiamat and Nidhogg shared. Beyond that, the best I can say is the Ascians know more about summoning primals than we do--they've been at it longer. Anger and aether have summoned primals before. Perhaps someone on the lore forums, maybe Anonymoose, could better answer these questions.

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If you read what I wrote, my statement was that Midgardsormr was born of Hydaelyn, not Bahamut.
Upon re-reading my lore book, this is incorrect. Midgardsormr is a dragon that's powerful enough to survive in the aetheric vacuum of space and just showed up one day, from space. So this should be quite the narrative indicator of strength. How is mad-thoughts snake dragon equal to the power of his reborn and deified son that was fueled by two 'live' eyes, and not two recently dead and SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN DRAINED eyes?

If 4.0 was all of what we were getting, I'd agree.

But after seeing how the plot developed between 2.0 and 2.55, then again from 3.0 to 3.5, I am inclined to wait and see. Liberating the nations was probably the easy part. Do you think Garlemald is going to let them go so easily? Do you think Lyse can form a functioning government on her own, even with Alphinaud's help? Do you think Hien can actually get a nation that was razed to the ground, even down to the castle, rebooted again?

I really want to see where things develop. Too many open questions to go.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I think during the Allied Beast Tribe(ARR one) that there was a primal summoned by grief. It's been a little while since I've done it, so can't be 100% sure on it.

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Titan was summoned by a blood sacrifice and by a young Kobold boy's grief at the death of his parents. It was a very weak summoning, however; only HM level.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

And again, the ultimate point here. If 'anyone' can summon primals like that, there should be far more primals. It's completely unbelievable that some subjugated mortal race in any of the 5,000 years the Twelve have been in their pantheon has not successfully summoned one. At LEAST with the rules that were seemingly established throughout 2.0, it was somewhat believable.

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That's because Midardsormyr was a living Macguffin that was keeping the Primals plugged up. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...626#post898626

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The Midlander accidentally gets tossed onto the back of one of these machines, and gets carried up into the sky, where he witnesses the Garleans fight with the dragon Midgardsormr in the Battle of Silvertear Skies. Though the great dragon is able to destroy the Garlean flagship, he perishes in the process, and the seal which he protected (guarding the concentration of aether beneath Silvertear Lake) is broken, allowing the beast tribes access to this energy, which they use to freely summon their primals (as taught to them by the mysterious paragons)

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So basically, when Midy was on the job, summoning Primals used to be a lot harder. When he died and Silverlake was destroyed, the Aether went out of control in Eorzea. Which is funny, because that means the Garleans are responsible for all the problems they've been trying to prevent.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

How is mad-thoughts snake dragon equal to the power of his reborn and deified son that was fueled by two 'live' eyes, and not two recently dead and SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN DRAINED eyes?

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Were they really drained, though? Thordan used them to hoover up two Ascians before he was defeated. And like has been pointed out before, these were two eyes from one of the First Brood. Exceptionally powerful eyes from an exceptionally powerful dragon. Those guys are basically Primals who aren't primals.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

That's because Midardsormyr was a living Macguffin that was keeping the Primals plugged up. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...626#post898626

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Sweet Jeebus that thing is a wordy mess. And while, I'll take you at your word for it, it would explain, (partially) how primals weren't summoned for 5 millenia, it does little to address how primals have become easier to summon Since 2.0 onward. (Wherein he was already 'dead', and has actively come back.)

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

So basically, when Midy was on the job, summoning Primals used to be a lot harder. When he died and Silverlake was destroyed, the Aether went out of control in Eorzea. Which is funny, because that means the Garleans are responsible for all the problems they've been trying to prevent.

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The word here is Ironic. Possibly, dramatic irony. But I'll say that the vast majority of players are unaware of that fact that Midgardsormr was doing anything of the sort, and thus doesn't qualify.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

Were they really drained, though? Thordan used them to hoover up two Ascians before he was defeated. And like has been pointed out before, these were two eyes from one of the First Brood. Exceptionally powerful eyes from an exceptionally powerful dragon. Those guys are basically Primals who aren't primals.

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They, 'SHOULD' be drained. Crystals are drained when summoning Primals. The eyes were used to power Thordan and his knights of the round. They were used to, ostensibly, re-summon Nidhogg as a Primal. He's somehow stronger and the fanaticism of his brood is giving him strength. Much less he reconstituted his entire body, after being physically, actually, super dead. Him surviving A spear to the brain and terminal velocity impact with terra firma is even WORSE writing than if he wasn't a primal being of some sort.

Finally, Tiamat was also of the first brood, and never died, her eyes were never compromised by use other than her own, and were never inert because she received a piercing from a Dragoon friend.. Her eyes SHOULD be stronger. Heck, her grief was immense, and supposedly dragon emotions are the focal point of their power in some weird incredibly poorly explained way. Why they wouldn't be stronger? It seemingly makes no sense unless thoroughly explained. Simply saying, "Nidhogg was very very angry" is a poor explanation, and bad writing.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

how primals have become easier to summon Since 2.0 onward.

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While I have a lot of criticisms about FFXIV's story, I think this one is misplaced. The question your asking is the same question the Scions have been asking. Yes, it's a mystery - but that's quite deliberate and framed in the narrative as a "wait, I didn't realize ____ could summon a primal now, too???" So it's not so much a plot hole as a key component of quite possibly the only plot thread that has held steady from 2.0 onward.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Simply saying, "Nidhogg was very very angry" is a poor explanation, and bad writing.

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Personally, I'm a fan of the more simple explanations. Not everything needs to be explained with a 200 page thesis, and considering how popular characters like the Hulk(Literally a guy who's power is "very very angry") are, I'm hesitant to simply discount such a simple explanation. One of the goals in writing many a story is balancing simplicity with complexity after all. Except mystery stories, then you don't want simplicity.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Personally, I'm a fan of the more simple explanations. Not everything needs to be explained with a 200 page thesis, and considering how popular characters like the Hulk(Literally a guy who's power is "very very angry") are, I'm hesitant to simply discount such a simple explanation. One of the goals in writing many a story is balancing simplicity with complexity after all. Except mystery stories, then you don't want simplicity.

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You don't have to 'say'. You have to 'explain'.

Gosetsu is alive, and it doesn't feel 'cheap' to me. Because of COURSE he'd survive that. He's Gosetsu.
Gandalf didn't die to the Balrog because of COURSE he didn't, he's Gandalf.

Nidhogg is super strong because... ?

Show, don't tell. It's a cardinal rule of writing.

We are shown WHY it's believable that Gosetsu or Gandalf could survive. The things we're shown about Nidhogg, is how hard he died to Estinien, and some flashback about how angry he is. We're only 'told' he's strong. He's not even really angry. We're not shown some epic speech where he says exactly how angry he is, we're not shown the depravity he'll go to, he doesn't even seem very insane, we're only told by other dragons how angry he is.

Cosmic Kirby, there was a quest where we tried to prevent the kobolds from summoning Titan again. We were even warned by a kobold child that they were getting the crystals and materials ready for it.

During the entire process that child came face to face with its dead parents and in an explosion of grief summoned Titan using the aether of the nearby gathered crystals by pure accident.

Accidental summoning has been a thing since ARR/HW.

First off l'll say, I loved stormblood. Yes, a few parts seemed a bit rushed, and our allies could have consisted of more. (it did sometimes feel to me that we were basically like... All of 20 people fighting hundreds. lol.) But I absolutely loved it more than heavensward.

Second. We have much more story to explore with the garleans and ascions. Between the emperor, his army, the ascions plans, and a few other things.

While I personally dont see a while "I'm changing sides" thing happening, I could see us at some point... "coming to terms" with the garleans to fight the ascions. Either with the emperor himself deciding we need to, or after defeating him and someone else reasonable coming into power wanting to stop their plans.

With that happening I could absolutely see us getting some story into their lands, many some sort of civil unrest? Perhaps some coming to our areas(like the samurai and rdm came To ulda) for new jobs.

We could make quite a good transition, moving from a group the empire wanted to take over and enslave to a group that sees the beginnings of a civil war of the garleans, the group that wants to continue trying to enslave everyone, and a group that sees how we are doing things, and wants our help to finally change things.

That would also make a good bridge into my prior mention of us and garleans teaming up to defeat the ascions.

But of course this is just my fun idea in my head.

Im sure SE has ideas already of its own for what it wants to do.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

If you read what I wrote, my statement was that Midgardsormr was born of Hydaelyn, not Bahamut.
Upon re-reading my lore book, this is incorrect. Midgardsormr is a dragon that's powerful enough to survive in the aetheric vacuum of space and just showed up one day, from space. So this should be quite the narrative indicator of strength. How is mad-thoughts snake dragon equal to the power of his reborn and deified son that was fueled by two 'live' eyes, and not two recently dead and SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN DRAINED eyes?

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I apologize for misreading your statement; it was an oddly worded one and I read over the seeming redundancy (the son of the spawn of), however it doesn't change that Bahamut and Nidhogg are, as it were, the same tier of being (son of Midgardsormr). It's also possible the ascians gave the eyes another refill once the Warriors of Darkness delivered them.

We also don't know how spent they were--they were dangerous enough still that keeping possession of them was dangerous and could get us possessed. Dangerous enough that we had to use all our power to rip them from Estinien still. Dangerous enough the Ascians and Warriors of Darkness considered them worthy to be enough to summon a dread primal with power akin to Bahamut, which later turned out to be Shinryu.

The only time we see the eyes completely drained is when Estinien declares the balls inert and stabs them. But even in their drained form, they were a threat, maybe because they still gather and generate aether over time. I mean, one of his eyes has been in the possession of the Azure Dragoons for a millennium.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Nidhogg is super strong because... ?

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In addition to his insane age, being one of the First Brood, Nidhogg is also one of Midgardsormr's direct sons (clearly). As a show of his power he turned an entire species to his cause and waged a 1000 year war on his rage alone. Rage that overtook him and became a completely different beast, easily capable of defeating Hraesvelgr (another of the First Brood) in single combat.

EDIT: Edited to highlight an explanation that might be satisfactory.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

In addition to his insane age, being one of the First Brood, Nidhogg is also one of Midgardsormr's direct sons (clearly). As a show of his power he turned an entire species to his cause and waged a 1000 year war on his rage alone. Rage that overtook him and became a completely different beast, easily capable of defeating Hraesvelgr (another of the First Brood) in single combat.

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That was actually just old fashioned fighting experience giving Nidhogg the edge. Like he told Hraesvelgr, while they might have been equals in power, Nidhogg had been leading the charge against Isgard for a thousand years, kicking ass and taking (Dragoon) names, while H was brooding in his sad boy den, being a sad boy. Who's going to win, the brother who goes off to war, or the brother who sulks in his room? Nidhogg knows the answer.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I apologize for misreading your statement; it was an oddly worded one and I read over the seeming redundancy (the son of the spawn of), however it doesn't change that Bahamut and Nidhogg are, as it were, the same tier of being (son of Midgardsormr). It's also possible the ascians gave the eyes another refill once the Warriors of Darkness delivered them.

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This is an extraordinary assumption that requires explanation. Coming up with answers, for the authors, is not your job, it's 'theirs'. There's not even a hint that the Ascians are capable of this, and if anything it's implied that it was purely Nidhogg's doing on his own. That he, for some ungodly reason, could remain alive through his eyes alone.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

We also don't know how spent they were--they were dangerous enough still that keeping possession of them was dangerous and could get us possessed. Dangerous enough that we had to use all our power to rip them from Estinien still. Dangerous enough the Ascians and Warriors of Darkness considered them worthy to be enough to summon a dread primal with power akin to Bahamut, which later turned out to be Shinryu.

The only time we see the eyes completely drained is when Estinien declares the balls inert and stabs them. But even in their drained form, they were a threat, maybe because they still gather and generate aether over time. I mean, one of his eyes has been in the possession of the Azure Dragoons for a millennium.

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The fact that they can be drained 'at all' as stated by Estinien calls into question how such a mechanism works. One in which is never really answered. One would SUPPOSE that powering 13 beings into primal status simultaneously, absorbing an ascian whole sale, and reconstituting the entire body of a being not of this planet would amount to some sort of strain on them. But apparently, not. Simply summoning a primal from a man's imagination though? Somehow too much. There's no attempt to state what the eyes are capable of or how they work beyond being magical until AFTER the plot is done with them.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

In addition to his insane age, being one of the First Brood, Nidhogg is also one of Midgardsormr's direct sons (clearly). As a show of his power he turned an entire species to his cause and waged a 1000 year war on his rage alone. Rage that overtook him and became a completely different beast, easily capable of defeating Hraesvelgr (another of the First Brood) in single combat.

EDIT: Edited to highlight an explanation that might be satisfactory.

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Clearly Nidhogg is so powerful, that'd he never lose his eyes to mere mortals. Or lose against the Warrior of Light, twice. Or let the Azure Dragoon pierce his skull with a spear. At least Zenos was demonstrably capable. Nidhogg certainly wasn't, and yet his eyeballs turn into an overused recurring plot device. (Much less, 'his' eyes in particular. As no mention of Bahamut's eyes, Ratatoskr when slain couldn't reconstitute and her eyes were so weak they could just be eaten, etc.)

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Cosmic Kirby, there was a quest where we tried to prevent the kobolds from summoning Titan again. We were even warned by a kobold child that they were getting the crystals and materials ready for it.

During the entire process that child came face to face with its dead parents and in an explosion of grief summoned Titan using the aether of the nearby gathered crystals by pure accident.

Accidental summoning has been a thing since ARR/HW.

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Assume that I have actually played the game please. My primary point remains that it's a wonder how the humanoid races of Eorzea have (Up until Shinryu, and to an extent Shiva) yet to summon primals.
(And Ga Bu wasn't even entirely an 'accident' The ritual and all the trappings were in place. We THOUGHT we stopped it, only for Ga Bu to complete the ritual himself. Therein was the accident.)
(Further, I am struggling to recall any 'accidental' summoning in 2.0-2.5 Ifrit, Titan, Garuda, Levithan, Ramuh, and Shiva were all intentional and underwent ritual and religion of some sort to summon. At least, the FIRST time if you want to ignore when they just resummoned to fight Ultima weapon in an instant.)

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Cosmic Kirby, there was a quest where we tried to prevent the kobolds from summoning Titan again. We were even warned by a kobold child that they were getting the crystals and materials ready for it.

During the entire process that child came face to face with its dead parents and in an explosion of grief summoned Titan using the aether of the nearby gathered crystals by pure accident.

Accidental summoning has been a thing since ARR/HW.

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My assumption at the time was that the summoning had already begun by the time we got there. Kobolds were there, crystals were present, sacrifices had been killed. The kobold child seemed to hijack an incomplete but at least underway summoning.

Still as others have said the fact that is does seem to keep getting easier to summon primals does appear to be at least vaguely acknowledged sometimes in the plot, maybe they are going somewhere with it.

E: My main issue with StormBlood is always going to be abandoning the resistance to go sailing around the world to the far east after their defeat at the reach. I feel like the story would have flowed so much better with Doma first and Ilberd/Shinryu coming up and splitting our attention once we had already embroiled ourselves in the easts rebellion.

OP's tl;dr version:

a) someone decided (years ago, ndr) to sell his SE stock because <insert any reason here>;
b) wall of text by OP to say s/he doesn't like the story so far.

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Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

At least, the FIRST time if you want to ignore when they just resummoned to fight Ultima weapon in an instant.)

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Ultima didn't resummon them, it had them contained in the Heart of Sabik just like Bahamut was contained in Dalamud. The Heart's a big mystery, as Lahabrea(I think) said it was pre-Allag and only a fraction of its power was unlocked, but it's never been mentioned after it was used as a plot device.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

OP's tl;dr version:

a) someone decided (years ago, ndr) to sell his SE stock because <insert any reason here>;
b) wall of text by OP to say s/he doesn't like the story so far.

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Thank you. I admit I had to stop reading the wall of text when I reached the part of "The story just sucked this time", which I, and every single acquaintance I have in this game, disagree with.

This game opens way too many doors and forgets to close them when it comes to lore. They will say one thing which is very important but then you never hear of it again. For example the Heart of Sabik, Silvertear, Isle of Val, The echo, the reflections of Hydaelyn.... So many things they placed but never go back to. You want to know what it is, how it happened or where it came from but these questions are never answered almost as if they don't even know themselves. :/ It's always NPC assuming what happen but never the truth of what happened which bothers me a lot.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

OP's tl;dr version:

a) someone decided (years ago, ndr) to sell his SE stock because <insert any reason here>;

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Well, it wasn't just any reason. XIV's launch and reception was legendarily awful. Combined with XIII's poor reception, the investor probably thought Square was finished. He wasn't necessarily wrong to think that way; they didn't turn a profit again for three years.

Frankly, the entire story has sucked. A Realm Reborn, Heavensward, and now Stormblood. SE is just carrying on with the tradition of over-used cliched narratives that have plagued nearly ever Final Fantasy title.

Business as usual.

About the server move:

I'm in São Paulo, Brazil, and I've always played with the latency levels you're complaining about having. Alas, ALL MY STATIC MATES also played with those levels of latency.
And we've downed every single piece of content that came out since Second Coil. Other statics as well.

So don't give me that "The server move made me not able to raid". That's first world problems at its finest.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I heard somewhere the lorebook says otherwise, so the canon could be questionable there. For instance: why don't they show up in or around cutscenes? For specific fights it also makes no sense for you to not be solo--like against Ramuh. Where'd you get the 4 extra "WoL" to fight the final boss of SB? (I say 4 due to having a 4 man dungeon immediately preceeding--though your three friends are mysteriously gone as well) You are definitely canonically solo against the HW final dungeon and boss.

EDIT: The lore does point out you're not the only one with Echo, but again, having a full party of eight in a lot of those instances...doesn't make a lot of sense.

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The other Warriors of Light are referenced by Mimodi if you start in Uldah. She mentions the heroes that saved them previously (1.0 players). The Warriors of Light from 1.0 still exist and the cinematic at the beginning of 2.0 shows there are more than one.
The canon on this is not questionable. The game straight up says there is more than one Warrior of Light. Game trumps lore book.

Also... Just going to throw this out there, but Doma and Hingashi should have been swapped.

While I did enjoy the Azim Steppes (Screw the Ruby Sea though), had we been confined to the Archipelago Hingashi occupies instead, it would have felt like a more complete state/nation.
And it would have made Ninjas and Samurai make more sense, honestly...

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Originally Posted by Niraves

Frankly, the entire story has sucked. A Realm Reborn, Heavensward, and now Stormblood. SE is just carrying on with the tradition of over-used cliched narratives that have plagued nearly ever Final Fantasy title.

Business as usual.

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If that's how you feel then why are you even here? Lol.

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Originally Posted by Remus

This game opens way too many doors and forgets to close them when it comes to lore. They will say one thing which is very important but then you never hear of it again. For example the Heart of Sabik, Silvertear, Isle of Val, The echo, the reflections of Hydaelyn.... So many things they placed but never go back to. You want to know what it is, how it happened or where it came from but these questions are never answered almost as if they don't even know themselves. :/ It's always NPC assuming what happen but never the truth of what happened which bothers me a lot.

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Real life does not provide us with the answer to everything wrapped up in a package with a nice bow.

I've always enjoyed moments in MMOs that don't explain everything. Dropped threads may come back later, or they may just be dropped threads. There should be portions of the map obscured by the words "Here Be Dragons" - or the Eorzean equivalent. Mystery makes room for imagination.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

There should be portions of the map obscured by the words "Here Be Dragons"

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Then we just go and become bros with them.
It's what we do.