As a new player, running through the Praetorium dungeon was the worst

I find it pretty disgusting that 'letting first timers experience the story as designed' is considered specialtreatment by the community.

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Originally Posted by Kethic

I find it pretty disgusting that 'letting first timers experience the story as designed' is considered specialtreatment by the community.

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An overdeveloped sense of entitlement is what's disgusting.
If making a party go considerably slower than it normally would (thus wasting a significant amount of play time for the rest of the party) for the sake of one person isn't special treatment, then I don't know what is. Praetorium has over half an hour of cutscenes.

I'm not against allowing people to watch cutscenes, but I do firmly believe there are better avenues to go about doing so than Duty Finder.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

If a person wants special treatment, they ought to make a PF specifying so, or ask friends/FC.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Wrong, that bonus is there as a reward for playing with new players. So, unless you're assuming that you know that you're going to get new players in that run before you're already in, which you don't, you are confusing the roulette bonus with the new player bonus, which are two completely different things.

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The point you are missing is the roulette bonuses are what keep Prae and CM active four years later. If cut scenes were forced, no one would ever touch them because the EXP bonuses wouldn't be worth committing nearly an hour to doing nothing, especially on a DPS job with already long queues. A perfect example is Coil or Alexander. Try queuing for either right now. I guarantee you'll be waiting hours. Why? Because the only players who care to do them either go with friends or are new players. Veterans have no reason to bother with either again, thus they don't. Even Crystal Tower couldn't survive once Heavensward dropped, and only saw revived activity when the devs slap one of the Anima sets into it.

So to answer your prior question. People queue into MSQ Roulette for the EXP gains and new players are able to complete the story, albeit with the high probability of skipping cut scenes and/or bosses.

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Originally Posted by Kethic

I find it pretty disgusting that 'letting first timers experience the story as designed' is considered specialtreatment by the community.

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We aint got time for leafers watching cut scenes. They are lucky they get help from long time players.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

^ Which means that I was right when I've been telling you that the rewards are well worth waiting. You get twice as much for it taking almost twice as much time. On top of that you get the same reward that you would get on a second run but without having to wait for the queues.

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You're objectively wrong on that point. You get less than twice as much for nearly 3x the duration. That other person was slow, honestly. The dungeon normally takes about 15 minutes to complete. It also doesn't double the other rewards.

I did enjoy that once again you reiterated your willingness to take the progression of new players hostage all so you can force SE to implement some "solution" to enforce your ideological purity. Seriously, do you feel like a good person here? Because you should not, not even a little bit. You are everything you're claiming the rest of us to be, but lack the self-awareness to realize it.

Edit: I just went and cleared both MSQ dungeons via Duty Finder groups. Castrum took just over 16 minutes. Praetorium took under 15.

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Originally Posted by Kethic

I find it pretty disgusting that 'letting first timers experience the story as designed' is considered specialtreatment by the community.

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When I was a new player, ten minutes into the cutscenes I began skipping them because I felt bad for not helping my group. Then again, I tend to think about people besides myself without being complained at to do so. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at SE, not the players. They created this situation. The players are pretty normal people with reasonable objections, namely being opposed to sitting around for 30+ minutes twiddling their thumbs in ancient content all for the sake of one random person. Sure, it would be swell if they did that, but it's also unreasonable and highly selfish to demand it of them and hold it against them when they don't.

I am sorry to hear that and yeah it is very bad. Had the same experience when I first did it too. People wanted to rush through it every time and having to go back to watch cut scenes is just a bad experience over all.

Praetorium if ppl didn't rush it and watched cutscenes = >1 hour (roughly).
Rushed praetorium = <10 minutes.

See what is the issue here ? Don't forget that a lot of players already know praetorium as it is content released in 2013. If we couldn't rush it then nobody would run it and everybody would leave at the beginning of the dungeon.

I won't bother anymore with this, even if I could've gone back and, for example, pick some stuff where the same posters contradict themselves about the duty taking more or less time depending of who are they replying to, so that it fits their argument. But considering how the same people seem to enjoy to go around other people's arguments without replying to what's actually being said (excuse me for saying "twice/double" when talking about 120+100; those 20 tomestones left for it to be exactly twice as much made such a huge difference in what I had to say), it would just be a waste of time. Some things never change over the years.

However, I'll let you a very simple fact for you (generally speaking) to meditate about. It's interesting that in the japanese servers, considering how the japanese culture is one that focuses on not bothering the people around you, and also how there's a huge respect towards those "above" you, they actually let the new players watch their cutscenes. If it was so bothersome as you claim it to be, wouldn't it make more sense for the new players to not watch them so that they don't bother the veterans? You can think whatever you want to think, but that fact is there, together with the devs being surprised about similar behaviors from the western community (which is partly SE's fault for not doing proper research, mind you).

This is a problem that only happens on NA/EU. You can draw any conclusions you want about it, but before you do (and if you're old enough) you should look back in time a little bit to see if you notice any changes in people's mentality over the years.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

-snip-

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Good to know the japanese do this. I also wish NA would go with JP's public blacklist idea too. But that all said, NA whiners also seem to have this idea that DF is where you go to practice and learn and do new content...when it isn't. JP uses PF to learn and DF to farm, for instance.

While i feel for you, at the same time ... when you have done that place more then 100-500 times as a vet ( none new player ) ... you want it over with ASAP.

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Originally Posted by Dahwoon

Just ran through the Praetorium dungeon...

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I would have recommended you make a Party Finder stating you wanted to watch the scenes and get a few to assist that way or ask for it to be Unsynced and have a Lv60+ that could solo the battles for you while you watch how it plays out.

Anything but Duty Finder, as this will always be the case as you found out. You have to see if from both sides, the ones matched in Duty Finder will most likely be running roulette and just want it over with.

As for spoilers, again better off making a group or getting a Lv60-70 to assist you, I have myself taken time to do this for people and I know of others that have as well, it never hurts to ask for help.

I did Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium back to back in Undersized party mode, with the cut scenes on, and not clicking through any of the dialog (auto advance):

Castrum Meridianum
Exact time: 44:33 (from Instance start to Exit), Timestamp 41:48

The Praetorium
Exact time: 62:16 (from Instance start to Exit), Timestamp 58:08
https://youtu.be/EuTNvt5jyVw

So to go back to the point of the original post, In order to watch all the cut scenes, it does in fact take twice as long for the Praetorium.

Also, got pinned by Nero on that run, which meant that I had to defeat him using Aero II, which probably dragged it out another minute.

..Not to be that nitpicky nerd girl.. adjusts spectacles, but twice as long would mean 88 minutes... *shot* (Don't mind me.. just being smart ass. I'm not disagreeing. :P)

Serious contribution: I remember when I was playing through ARR for the first time; before HW came out. It was being rushed back then too. I was lucky to have an FC that had cool people that actually helped me run them both authentically. So I implore any new people to find a cool FC to help them run it.

Just tell them how the story ends, full spoilers, problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

I won't bother anymore with this, even if I could've gone back and, for example, pick some stuff where the same posters contradict themselves about the duty taking more or less time depending of who are they replying to, so that it fits their argument. But considering how the same people seem to enjoy to go around other people's arguments without replying to what's actually being said (excuse me for saying "twice/double" when talking about 120+100; those 20 tomestones left for it to be exactly twice as much made such a huge difference in what I had to say), it would just be a waste of time. Some things never change over the years.

However, I'll let you a very simple fact for you (generally speaking) to meditate about. It's interesting that in the japanese servers, considering how the japanese culture is one that focuses on not bothering the people around you, and also how there's a huge respect towards those "above" you, they actually let the new players watch their cutscenes. If it was so bothersome as you claim it to be, wouldn't it make more sense for the new players to not watch them so that they don't bother the veterans? You can think whatever you want to think, but that fact is there, together with the devs being surprised about similar behaviors from the western community (which is partly SE's fault for not doing proper research, mind you).

This is a problem that only happens on NA/EU. You can draw any conclusions you want about it, but before you do (and if you're old enough) you should look back in time a little bit to see if you notice any changes in people's mentality over the years.

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You were the one being extremely nitpicky about other people's figures when it's obvious you have no clue what you're talking about. People even provided sample data and rather than address the data or gather your own, you simply started complaining that people aren't arguing against your content, despite the fact that they plainly are. Again, this is you projecting and lacking the self-awareness to realize it.

What Japanese players do is their own business, but has no bearing whatsoever on whether something is bothersome or not as that's a purely subjective judgment each individual has to make for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Lustaria

..Not to be that nitpicky nerd girl.. adjusts spectacles, but twice as long would mean 88 minutes... *shot* (Don't mind me.. just being smart ass. I'm not disagreeing. :P)

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It took twice as long compared to my "23:08, with cutscenes disabled on WHM" Praetorium run identically equipped from the other day.

58:08 - 23:08= 35 minutes of cut scenes if you don't click through any of it. There's an additional 4 minutes of cut scenes after it gives you the completion timestamp.

At any rate, ultimately a speed runner could probably shave at least 1-2 minutes off that still.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

It took twice as long compared to my "23:08, with cutscenes disabled on WHM" Praetorium run identically equipped from the other day.

58:08 - 23:08= 35 minutes of cut scenes if you don't click through any of it. There's an additional 4 minutes of cut scenes after it gives you the completion timestamp.

At any rate, ultimately a speed runner could probably shave at least 1-2 minutes off that still.

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..I knew that's what you meant. Honest. adjusts spectacles as she looks away in shame.

Honestly of all the common complaints about the game this one holds the most merit for me. I almost quit the game after hitting the 2 end MSQ dungeons, it's just an awful experience.

Converting these over to solo quests would probably be very costly in terms of development time and cut seriously into at least a whole content patch. I think the cost would be worth it just so there aren't horror stories like this anymore.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

You were the one being extremely nitpicky about other people's figures when it's obvious you have no clue what you're talking about. People even provided sample data and rather than address the data or gather your own, you simply started complaining that people aren't arguing against your content, despite the fact that they plainly are. Again, this is you projecting and lacking the self-awareness to realize it.

What Japanese players do is their own business, but has no bearing whatsoever on whether something is bothersome or not as that's a purely subjective judgment each individual has to make for themselves.

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Are you serious? How long did I have to insist about the additional 100 tomestones (and exp, if you aren't max level) exclusive to CM and Prae -as they're way lower in other duties- until someone actually acknowledged it? Who was the first one to nitpick my first post after I said what was just my opinion and what I do on those dungeons (hint: it was you; not surprising, right?)? Who has been the one finally pointing at the measly 20 tomestones when those don't really matter for the argument? Who has been ignoring parts of my and other posters' replies (including actual figures, and the opinions of the new players), some of which already countered what you were saying, so that they could fit his needs? Do you really want me to go back and quote all the hypocritical, entitled, egocentric, contradictory, exaggerated, misguided, and/or wrong things that you've posted about times, rewards, new players, etc.?

Also, congrats on missing the point of the second part of my post. And it's not as if some things, related to human behavior, are (or rather, should be) universal. Because I'm not talking about individuals there.

But whatever, I'm done. It's clear what you're doing, and you are not worth investing more of my time. But it's sad that this is the kind of community that you strive to create.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Are you serious? How long did I have to insist about the additional 100 tomestones (and exp, if you aren't max level) exclusive to CM and Prae -as they're way lower in other duties- until someone actually acknowledged it? Who was the first one to nitpick my first post after I said what was just my opinion and what I do on those dungeons (hint: it was you; not surprising, right?)? Who has been the one finally pointing at the measly 20 tomestones when those don't really matter for the argument? Who has been ignoring parts of my and other posters' replies (including actual figures, and the opinions of the new players), some of which already countered what you were saying, so that they could fit his needs? Do you really want me to go back and quote all the hypocritical, entitled, egocentric, contradictory, exaggerated, misguided, and/or wrong things that you've posted about times, rewards, new players, etc.?

Also, congrats on missing the point of the second part of my post. And it's not as if some things, related to human behavior, are (or rather, should be) universal. Because I'm not talking about individuals there.

But whatever, I'm done. It's clear what you're doing, and you are not worth investing more of my time. But it's sad that this is the kind of community that you strive to create.

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I wasn't pointing at just 20 tomestones. I would have let that slide if it were the only discrepancy. You're ignoring the rest of the rewards, such as the bonus XP that comes from the end of the roulette. There is a small bonus added for having a new player, but it's not double. Similarly, the gil reward is not doubled nor is the XP gained from clearing the mobs. Please stop being so incredibly ridiculous.

You say I'm ignoring the opinions of new players, but I simply disagree with anyone who thinks everyone should be held hostage so that they can watch the cutscenes. It's not as though I was never a new player or forgot my own opinion. I get that it sucks and I sympathize with them, but forcing other people to sit through 15 or 30+ minutes of cutscenes isn't the answer.

What I'm doing is trying to have a civil conversation with you to express an opposing viewpoint and this is apparently all it takes to get you riled up and attacking me.

But sure, do me a favor and without distorting things I said after depriving them of context, quote to me all the places I'm such a terrible human being. Please provide facts and data to back up your claims as necessary, as I will not accept self-righteous moral grandstanding in lieu of such things.

Whenever I do main scenario roulette I always tell new players to not worry about it and just watch the cutscenes. The boss fights are killed so fast now that you're not missing much. Just enjoy the cutscenes.

The times I've ran the Msq roulette's nobody has said anything to the sprouts about watching CS with the runs I've queued for we would just go ahead and let the sprout watch them I'm not gonna say anything to a sprout for wanting to watch them and experience it for the first time

While I sympathise with the op I am afraid I can not agree. Sadly. The only way new players can get through old content is to have old players continuously re run it. Those old players have run that dungeon hundreds of times and simply do not want to have to wait the extra 10 mins for 1 or 2 people to watch a scene that they can watch, at their leisure, in and inn room or fc house and quite frankly it is unreasonable to ask 7 other people to wait on you

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

This is a problem that only happens on NA/EU. You can draw any conclusions you want about it, but before you do (and if you're old enough) you should look back in time a little bit to see if you notice any changes in people's mentality over the years.

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I find this incredibly unlikely, and just another attempt to paint JP as wonderful. All regions have their respective biases. A fun little factoid is JP players think the devs cater to NA/EU over them whereas the exact opposite sentiment is seen on here.

Even if I take your statement at face value. So? We aren't JP nor will people abruptly change because you or anyone else thinks it's unfair new players cannot watch cut scenes and participate in the boss fights for these two specific dungeons. I wager most people haven't watched the cut scenes if they queued into DF because people were speed running Prae and CM a couple weeks after ARR released. Should the devs fix it? Absolutely. Even a simple warning before you queue would at least give new players an opportunity to put up a PF. But demanding people should let them watch cut scenes will amount to nothing. It isn't going to happen as most people don't want to waste 40+ minutes.

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Originally Posted by savageink

They are rude and selfish. If they don't want to let the sprouts watch the cutscenes, then they shouldn't do the roulette. The only reason the roulettes exist is so new players can play the content.

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Goes both ways. Dont want to skip the cut scenes then dont do the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Sure, you may not have blamed them specifically, but you did imply they were rude and selfish. MSQ roulette is a situation where you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours. New players, despite what you think, would be suffering from far longer queues to accomplish anything. Finding 8 people who want to spend an hour in a dungeon that is from years ago is going to be slim. So yes, the roulette gets people in quickly to complete the MSQ while the 'helpers' get some tomes or quick exp.

Also, unrelated to the current reply, but the thread in general:

Cute little sprout getting snippy.
http://i.imgur.com/DswkLKI.png

The CM/Prae situation is not ideal, but that's why SE changed their evil ways in later dungeon.

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Should have just vote kicked like we mostly do.

Jeeze. People still pulling this crap? It would tick me off when they pulled the "just skip it, you can watch it at the inn" line. Uh excuse me? I have every right to watch cutscenes to a game i pay monthly for as you do to skip them and be in a firey bum rush. I rememeber people doing this to be back when ARR released. You know what i did?

I ignored them.

Best part of ignoring them?

I was their healer.
>____>; keep on telling me to skip my cutscenes and bum rush into packs of mobs! Cause if ya do, this kitty ain't gonna heal yer arse. Don't be a douche.

Aanyways.. May the rest of your experience in the game be douche-free! Not everyone in dungeons are their butts on fire like those people.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I did Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium back to back in Undersized party mode, with the cut scenes on, and not clicking through any of the dialog (auto advance):

Castrum Meridianum
Exact time: 44:33 (from Instance start to Exit), Timestamp 41:48

The Praetorium
Exact time: 62:16 (from Instance start to Exit), Timestamp 58:08
https://youtu.be/EuTNvt5jyVw

So to go back to the point of the original post, In order to watch all the cut scenes, it does in fact take twice as long for the Praetorium.

Also, got pinned by Nero on that run, which meant that I had to defeat him using Aero II, which probably dragged it out another minute.

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auto adance doesn't make text faster, i tested it and i read faster then auto advance advances.

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Originally Posted by Charlayy

Should have just vote kicked like we mostly do.

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vote kick who? the new comer for being upset?

i recall when mmo put new players first. then WoW happen. No one warns people of this happening. Which sucks.

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Originally Posted by Rawrrior

Jeeze. People still pulling this crap? It would tick me off when they pulled the "just skip it, you can watch it at the inn" line. Uh excuse me? I have every right to watch cutscenes to a game i pay monthly for as you do to skip them and be in a firey bum rush. I rememeber people doing this to be back when ARR released. You know what i did?

I ignored them.

Best part of ignoring them?

I was their healer.
>____>; keep on telling me to skip my cutscenes and bum rush into packs of mobs! Cause if ya do, this kitty ain't gonna heal yer arse. Don't be a douche.

Aanyways.. May the rest of your experience in the game be douche-free! Not everyone in dungeons are their butts on fire like those people.

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That'd be a stronger deterrent if you needed two healers anymore. D:

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Originally Posted by Indefiinable

While I sympathise with the op I am afraid I can not agree. Sadly. The only way new players can get through old content is to have old players continuously re run it. Those old players have run that dungeon hundreds of times and simply do not want to have to wait the extra 10 mins for 1 or 2 people to watch a scene that they can watch, at their leisure, in and inn room or fc house and quite frankly it is unreasonable to ask 7 other people to wait on you

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No it is not unreasonable. The experience of watching the cutscenes in the dungeon is the not same as viewing them on YouTube or even in the inn. I've been around ffxiv a long time and still have no issue affording the same experience and courtesy to new players that I had at ARR launch.

I mean, it isn't hard to not be an asshole and let a sprout who is actually keeping with the story watch the cutscenes. Saying "Watch it at the inn" isn't as fun as watching it as it is occuring, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Whenever I do main scenario roulette I always tell new players to not worry about it and just watch the cutscenes. The boss fights are killed so fast now that you're not missing much. Just enjoy the cutscenes.

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they might care though. They should be respected as much as vets feel entitled to it. New players are bread and butter to mmo, chasing them a way isn't good.

off quote

the ff11 english community had no issue letting new players watch longer cs. And these same people had lives and families. Even my g/f only had 2 hrs a day to play ff11, and never used that against new players. the cs were longer then ff14, and the fights were longer then ff14.

why is it in today's age of gamers, is short fights and cs seen as a "waste of time" to wait? you get your tomes, its only a 1 time daily bonus.

with friends, it doesn't take long to queue up and do each daily bonus. So saying i got a life, is a lame excuse to ruin someones experience.

If anything at least WARN new players, so they can set up pf's to get these done so we can limit this thread appearing. this thread has been started and re started 40 times since ARR launch. How many more times will it take for people to get a clue.

also get 8 ppl undersize put on cs, and tell me how long it will takes, it doesn't take an hr to do with cs, and yes you gotta click it auto advance is slow.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

No it is not unreasonable. The experience of watching the cutscenes in the dungeon is the not same as viewing them on YouTube or even in the inn. I've been around ffxiv a long time and still have no issue affording the same experience and courtesy to new players that I had at ARR launch.

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Unreasonable = not fair or acceptable. Is it fair to the 7 other players to wait on 1 individual with no prior agreement. No. There are multiple options available to players wishing to immerse themselves in the early content. FC run, party finder run, watching the lengthy cutscenes in FC house or inn room

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Originally Posted by Indefiinable

Unreasonable = not fair or acceptable. Is it fair to the 7 other players to wait on 1 individual with no prior agreement. No. There are multiple options available to players wishing to immerse themselves in the early content. FC run, party finder run, watching the lengthy cutscenes in FC house or inn room

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Guess what there are options for people that can't handle the cutscenes too. Don't queue! Don't sit here and scream it's not fair because of one person who has never run the content wants watch the cutscenes. No one is forcing you to run the main scenario roulette. It never ceases to amaze me the level of entitlement shown by gamers today. They gave the roulette and daily rewards to encourage people to run the older content for newer players. Not for vet players to bully newer players out of the dungeon experience.

Furthermore those options are there for folks who want revisit the cutscenes not for primary viewing. The cutscenes only show up after they have been played for the first time.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Guess what there are options for people that can't handle the cutscenes too. Don't queue! Don't sit here and scream it's not fair because of one person who has never run the content wants watch the cutscenes. No one is forcing you to run the main scenario roulette. It never ceases to amaze me the level of entitlement shown by gamers today. The gave the roulette and daily rewards to encourage people to run the older content for newer players. Not for vet players to bully newer players out of the dungeon experience.

Furthermore those options are there for folks who want revisit the cutscenes not for primary viewing. As they only show up after it's played for the first time.

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It shows up if they are skipped as well. When I first ran Praetorium, I ran it with a few friends from an old FC I was in. They told me about both options, I opted to take part in the fights and watch the CS after in the inn.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

It shows up if they are skipped as well. When I first ran Praetorium, I ran it with a few friends from an old FC I was in. They told me about both options, I opted to take part in the fights and watch the CS after in the inn.

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That's because a skip is technically playing the scene with fast forward. It doesn't however change the purpose of the reviewing mechanism.

Also, if the new player wants to skip of his/her own volition that is one thing. Forcing or coercing is another.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

It never ceases to amaze me the level of entitlement shown by gamers today.

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I think this exact same quote was used to describe the new players who expect seven strangers to sit back and wait. In this very thread, if I'm not mistaken, though I couldn't find it on a quick scan. (Might have been another thread on this topic; it's one that comes up pretty regularly.)

Your solution, "Stay out of MS Roulette if you don't like cutscenes," has been suggested before, including actual gameplay solutions like making watching cutscenes mandatory, or preventing dungeon progress until all eight members are present. The problem with this is that new players NEED veteran players to help them through the Main Scenario fights, and each of these solutions serves to drive veteran players away. The queue times for new players trying to complete CM or Prae are already oppressive - take away the lure of quick, easy tomestones, and those queue times could skyrocket to literally hours of waiting. Any solution that drives away the warm bodies needed to keep queue times reasonable is a bad idea.

I've been here since 2.0 release, and even in the very beginning folks were already speedrunning these dungeons. Thanks to the forums, I went in forewarned, but that didn't mean that I was happy about having to skip the cutscenes. Nevertheless, I saw the point from both sides, and recognized that both sides have reasonable arguments. It is not reasonable to expect seven players to slow down for you (you can ASK, and sometimes it works, but don't be bitter if they're unwilling). It is also not reasonable to ask a new player to skip out on the narrative just so you can get your loot and go home. Either way, someone is getting screwed over. There's no right answer. And since there are seven who want to go one way, and one that wants to go the other, it's usually the newbie that gets overruled.

The problem is NOT with "entitled players", but with the design of the dungeon. This has been noted time and again, and even the SE devs have obliquely acknowledged that the profusion of in-dungeon cutscenes was a bad idea. They've also all but stated that they have no intention of doing anything to solve the problem; no rework is going to be applied to those dungeons, or to the roulettes that accompany them.

The best you can do is to warn new players that you know of the upcoming dilemma. Encourage them to put together Party Finder parties to gather other newbies and veterans who are willing to be patient. Warn them that such parties will fill much more slowly - but that in turn they will be able to experience the dungeon on their own terms.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

vote kick who? the new comer for being upset?

i recall when mmo put new players first. then WoW happen. No one warns people of this happening. Which sucks.

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You took the bait. I can only assume Charlayy was trying to fan the flames. I haven't seen a person kicked for watching those CSs since the game was new.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

the ff11 english community had no issue letting new players watch longer cs. And these same people had lives and families. Even my g/f only had 2 hrs a day to play ff11, and never used that against new players. the cs were longer then ff14, and the fights were longer then ff14.

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Also, this is not a good comparison. XIV and XI are vastly different in how you had to complete MSQ. For starters, XI you would most likely only be running with your LS or a shout group who all needed the missions as well. There was no benefit for others to rerun the MSQ outside of helping LS members or for a merch run. If it's a merch run, you better hope those people would suck it up and let you watch CSs as you were paying them for it.

XIV is completely different as most MSQ is completed with completely random people. Despite your own personal feelings on the matter, these people don't owe anything to sprouts. If they are so concerned, they should find a helpful FC or make a PF group to their own specifications.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

That's because a skip is technically playing the scene with fast forward. It doesn't however change the purpose of the reviewing mechanism.

Also, if the new player wants to skip of his/her own volition that is one thing. Forcing or coercing is another.

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No one is "forcing" anyone to do anything. If the new player wishes to watch the cutscenes they can. However the rest of the player base will continue on. If it were not for "entitled" players like me running main rou daily there would be no df runs for the new players to join. The simple fact of the matter remains when 1 person wants to wait to watch the cutscenes and the other 7 don't majority rules and THAT is how democracy works and is entirely right and justified