Objectively, The Royal Managerie Will Be Nerfed

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Originally Posted by Powercow

This is definitely an issue. I agree with the person earlier who suggested the level 70 group content should be locked off until you finish your 70 job quest.

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Sorry dumb question as not in the game atm. Does the fight actually have an ilvl requirement or is it just lvl 70? As it would just make sense for them to set it to whatever total it is for relic left side + highest dungeon accessories that are available.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Sorry dumb question as not in the game atm. Does the fight actually have an ilvl requirement or is it just lvl 70? As it would just make sense for them to set it to whatever total it is for relic left side + highest dungeon accessories that are available.

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It's i280 trial.
But, then again, Titan Ex was i67 and Urth's Fount is i95 so ilevel requirement means nothing.

It 'feels' like around i300-305, but 6/8 players usually have only i290 job gear left side and lv69 belt/accessories or worse.

The problem really isnt so much mechanics but just some of those mechanics are missleading.bomb drops. The shockwaves travel out ward on all four sides, so you need to look very closly to find out wich shockwave to avoid,however utill you figured that out your going to be miss-lead and die. this boss does not display the name of hiss atacks in most cases, got to look at the visual cues while he is casting. Depending on what element you see around his aura that is the attack he will use. The one that looks like a shield is his ice-attack. THe one that looks like he shot a line shockwave is his wind tornado attack, The brown aura around him is the earth breath attack. Just got to watch the visual Ques for them and thats what most of this fight is, to see if you are payaing attention, because they will not directly tell you the attacts,but there are visualy ques that will indicate it,that is what is throwing people off. They did that because they wanted you to pay attention to mechanics.

People who cleared before the nerf should get a free glamour item of their choice.

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

People who cleared before the nerf should get a free glamour item of their choice.

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People who cleared after the nerf should get a permanent surname "Carebear".

The only "nerf" I want from this fight is more options to upgrade gear. Unless I'm mistaken, the only option, outside of the lvl 70 AF gear, is the Ala Mhigo run. Also, unless I am mistaken, that dungeon does not offer the same guaranteed gear drop bonus, like all the previous dungeons. The 30+ minute dps queues don't help either.

So my current options are Ala Mhigo rng (assuming I even get in), or Duty Finder rng (and risk rolling a squishy group). Then there's time wasted having to retrain every new group over again, and have the new players die to the same mechanics, in the same order, every single time.

Not a fan of the limited options.

Royal Managerie is no more challenging than The Final Steps of Faith and they openly said there wouldn't be a nerf. They absolutely can and should have fights like this in story. A significant reason for the lack of player skill is how easy everything outside Savage is. Basically, people need to stop whining and "git gud."

Bosses like this are basically a gate for 'if you can't complete this you've been carried through virtually everything else and are a hassle for the people you play with'.

Not to be mean but it's true.

This fight reminds so much of "To Kill a Raven" from version 1.0 took us a month just to clear it. (Final Boss of Version 1.0) But my god it felt so great when you finally did.

Maybe people who put on the work to learn to execute mechanics in a fight don't WANT people who won't do the same in the meta...

I don't understand. Why would this fight get nerfed? You've seen all the mechanics before at some point in this game. Only now those mechanics are on one boss. More than likely, this will be the wandering minstrel fight (just like Ultima weapon and Thordan for ARR and HW final MSQ bosses respectively). Most of the time, you just need to talk with the party on how to do mechanics and have patience. I know patience is in pretty short supply.

OP, I don't understand your logic. "SE will lose subs" is so melodramatic, I have not seen many complaints about this, I have seen people saying "thank God I finally beat it, not doing that again" but it hasn't walled a lot of people, and that means the fight has succeeded in its intent, and therefore a nerf is counterproductive. It will get a natural nerf with gear progression and it's difficulty will be forgotten over time.

I don't know if I was less lucky or less skilled, but it took me 2 DF groups before beating this. First group was a lot of new people. Lots of persistence and patience, but we were never able to clear. We kept improving though. 2nd group was 2nd or 3rd try. Despite taking more tries than many people here, I would not change this for anything! The clear felt satisfying and I felt like I was improving as a player.

Patch notes are up, no RM nerf.

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Originally Posted by Clawbriar

On the other hand, I kinda feel if you're level 70, you should have a good enough grasp of what to do by now.

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Seriously exactly this.. No amount of nerfing (or hand holding) well make people get better. People who want to get better will, those that don't just won't. Simple as that, & and if you still can't dodge or w/e after going through 4 YRS WORTH of content (and basically seeing every machinic this game has to offer & repeated multiple times in multiple pieces of content in the process) then just no helping you lol (with the exception of jump potion users, but reguardless) PLZ DO NOT NERF THIS EPIC FIGHT, its was amazing and to see this end up as a shell of itself (looking at you Original Steps of Fate) would be dishearting.. I love this fight, love helping people/friends clear it, plz do not nerf it...

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Originally Posted by Melondra

This fight reminds so much of "To Kill a Raven" from version 1.0 took us a month just to clear it. (Final Boss of Version 1.0) But my god it felt so great when you finally did.

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That's Still one of my favorite fights..

hell just the fact it took place on a 3 dimensional arena was cool. dps having to climb up high in order to destroy those meteors before they reached ground level.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

OP, I don't understand your logic. "SE will lose subs" is so melodramatic, I have not seen many complaints about this, I have seen people saying "thank God I finally beat it, not doing that again" but it hasn't walled a lot of people, and that means the fight has succeeded in its intent, and therefore a nerf is counterproductive. It will get a natural nerf with gear progression and it's difficulty will be forgotten over time.

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So much this......

OP where did you get that from? It's the second thread you make with a pathetic attempt to prove and force your point to the community in SE' name.

I completed it with a pug.

I have cleared this one on both NA and JP servers more than once. The JP servers seem to work the issue and talk it out after a wipe. The NA servers, it is easy with a group of friends and a wipe or so, DF on NA servers is not much fun to get this. Lot of quit the moment everyone loads in to it. Though I don't think they should nerf this, I think it helps to increase the player base skill level and that is a plus. Some of the 61 to 69 dungeon mechs were more about doing the mechs over anything else. Second boss on the 3rd dungeon ring a bell. No fighting, just do the mechs and you get a check over your name or an X. Pass or fail, I thought that was pretty cool.

Most of the content in this game is a virtual cake walk. I do all of it from gathering/crafting at endgame, participating in the casual 24 mans and enjoying the usual dungeon crawl...to raiding endgame content. I actually felt like I earned seeing the end of the current Stormblood msq by besting the final boss.

I was around for the Steps of Faith fiasco when that trial was a fun concept that went horribly wrong because the developers thought we would want to sit around and coordinate and communicate with each other to accomplish a goal together. It turned out to be a plate of spaghetti and people would leave when queued in to what was more than likely a 30 minute wipe because people didn't want to have to communicate with each other during a trial. It was just too much. So that got nerfed.

This final boss doesn't need nerfing, you just can't Netflix and chill and expect to clear it. I wiped in a couple of groups but I was able to finally get it down. The problem is EVERYONE needs to pull their own weight. After I cleared it I got it in my trials all week long, and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't carry a group on my own. If you get in there and know it, explain the mechanics and that's really all you can do. Some people might take some wipes to get it down, but its completely doable. Just dodge all of the things, cleanse a debuff, do a qte, and don't fall off. Sometimes some groups just can't cut it and you have to disband. Isn't it like that for other content though too? Also, take into account that the people that initially get into this fight probably aren't outgearing it, so they won't be able to faceroll it and eat every mechanic to the face, which is quite unlike most of the content in this game which tends to not be too incredibly punishing.

Thank you devs for this final boss fight, it was very enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

I don't understand. Why would this fight get nerfed?

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Because and that's not my personal opinion, but a most and good used argument when it comes to nerfing content, too much stuff going on during that fight. Again not my personal opinion because I don't think it needs a nerf, but having run this trial the last 2 days via roulette (I got my clear already prior so I didn't needed a clear before someone asks) was more of a nightmare then an actual satisfaction.

I tried explaining it to people, I put up markers later on, I even healed and raised the dead and wounded as RDM. I made a macro that plays a high annoying sound, indicating that the tail is priority, even a person with hearing problems would have heard that noise.

Sadly to say, people kept falling over the same mechanics over and over again, even so we have seen them prior throughout the fight already, people ignoring tail and chains. Running like chickens around during akh morn, or running to the opposite direction of the tidal wave.

Some people actually throughout the day failed the easy "click the button on your screen" mechanic during time maneuver, and then run right off the platform or being knocked off the platform after that. LB3's are constantly used to raise the whole party, instead of groups being able to use it for dmg, making the fight even longer, than it should be. etc.

Even with more gear this isn't to get easier, not that it's difficult to begin with, maybe in ilvl 800 you could stand in every mechanic but even that high of ilvl is not going to save you from being knocked off. Therefore it won't surprise me if that fights get nerfed to the ground, since it's making the gear vendor not being accessible to people that haven't cleared/finished the MSQ.

You know it somewhat reminds me of good ol T5 back in the day, but not for the difficulty, more about the mechanics. Remember how many people wiped already during the first 10 minutes and never saw the transition phase, or made it there then fell and wiped on twisters all night long. Lots of people haven't even now, years later with 100s of ilvl's higher and the possibility to unsync it cleared or even come close to it. Never fails to amaze me tho.

Just did that fight, wasted 1hour(30min wait time, 30min fight/wipes) and no clear... and have to say.... Why the darn a ->STORY<- fight have an uber ->SAVAGE<- mode fight?! /screams angry D:< This will just cause people stop playing and AGAIN: locked out behind content, cant do new stuff we got today, THANKS! ..cant even buy better gears with tomes ether lmfao! I Never played Savage mode in this game nor I want to. <-< they are making me toxic and salty to other people! If I want play a difficult cheap game that makes me crush a wall I play Dark Souls with my feets. <.< Nerf this crap at once! Story fights should be for ->CASUALS<- not Elitists! >->

I finally got the chance to give this a go yesterday, and having done so I can see both sides. My bf and I got to 70, did ala mhigo (sp?), did our 70 job quests to make sure we had the artifact 290, and then in we went. We've gone through two groups now and have yet to successfully get a clear. We got the boss to 20% with group one, so beating him clearly isn't impossible. But since we are pugging the hour time limit and having to retrain new groups is going to be a pain.

We're not out of options, though. We still have accessories that could use materia, we could run ala mhigo until we have full 300 gear, we could push his crafts to 70 and make the best crafted gear possible. We can also keep trying the fight and improving our own knowledge of it once my internet connection to this game quits sucking (I've gotten a ridiculous number of disconnects the last couple days.)... I really like this fight and find it thrilling.

My bf, who is the one that's run primal ex's and savage, though, is like WTF?! :O He thinks this fight is stupid and an oversight by SE since there are people who only have so much time and having to get multiple groups in df before clearing is counter productive. He feels that if SE wants to make FC mandatory content and place it as part of the MSQ, that the whole MSQ should have that requirement (he feels this is unpuggable and needs a static).

Personally, once my net settles down, I'm gonna keep trying. I am getting better at the mechanics every time I do it, even with my crappy eyesight, and I will beat it eventually. I'm sure the bf will keep trying, too. I just feel kinda bummed that he isn't getting the 'this is epic!' feels from it--likely because he is frustrated it has blocked him from running for verity on his days off.

Anyway, wanted to make sure I came back and updated since I now have some actual experience. Congrats to those who've cleared, and good luck and don't give up to those who haven't.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Did you do your 70 job quest? Cuz it gives you i290 gear/weapon. They make it impossible to be undergeared in that fight lol. Maybe they need to make it a prereq to doing the final dungeon, having done your lvl 70 quest

I have yet to see it take more than 2 wipes in DF.

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Um... that's great for you, but realistically there are a lot of people who are having trouble here. People who beat tough content can often be very jaded against those who haven't. I'm hearing a lot of defenders claiming 'it's easy', but it really isn't.

People spend so much time worrying about one attack that they miss out on others. There are multiple skills used in tandem, and it's easy to fall off the edge due to some mechanics which is an instant death. So, let's drop the 'it's easy' bull and look at it realistically.

Personally, I like the fight. It's a real pain in the ass MP wise though (I'm a WHM) since I'm having to cast Raise far more than necessary. Even the rather cheeky ones that say 'it's easy' seem to die to these seemingly easy to avoid mechanics, so you'll forgive me if I take similar comments with a grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Um... that's great for you, but realistically there are a lot of people who are having trouble here. People who beat tough content can often be very jaded against those who haven't. I'm hearing a lot of defenders claiming 'it's easy', but it really isn't.

People spend so much time worrying about one attack that they miss out on others. There are multiple skills used in tandem, and it's easy to fall off the edge due to some mechanics which is an instant death. So, let's drop the 'it's easy' bull and look at it realistically.

Personally, I like the fight. It's a real pain in the ass MP wise though (I'm a WHM) since I'm having to cast Raise far more than necessary. Even the rather cheeky ones that say 'it's easy' seem to die to these seemingly easy to avoid mechanics, so you'll forgive me if I take similar comments with a grain of salt.

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Got any numbers to back up your claim?

Having echo for it would be nice what also be nice if made it easer on healers and tanks so they didn't keep leaving and causing the party to be disbanded after hour long que time. Also might be easy for you because of low ping but there's a lot players out there with 200+ pings that don't have a easy time. Then also have those ddos attacks that's causing ones to lag bad and disconnect.

While i am at heading to work, can someone explain to me why this fight "needs" to be nerfed? There is much going on in the battle, that is true, but most of it is mechanics we have already seen along the 70 levels of the game with most of the Primals doing them, they are pretty common and nothing new by now.

Even if it is a Story fight... it's Shinryu (even if it is nerfec by Zenos influence) it's not supossed to be Thordan easy.

Yesterday roulette trial gave this in progress. Only had 1 people there and leave when I entered. Well, I also leave for closed that instance.
After roulette 70 gave Ala Mhigo with 2 new people. 1 wipe in last boss, but sucess in next attempt. I said "Thanks" and "Good luck in last trial" to 2 new people. Because they are going to need.

My only real issue of feeling inclined to do this again is that you have to restart the whole boring first phase. Maybe if that gets completed then that could be a restart point if a group fails. Not like that bit's even difficult. Otherwise I just can't bring myself to do it again, unless someone I know needs it.

Earn your wol status.

2 shot it with random DF group that had 4-5 new people it's not that bad at all we only wiped the first time because ice got like 6 people.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Just did that fight, wasted 1hour(30min wait time, 30min fight/wipes) and no clear... and have to say.... Why the darn a ->STORY<- fight have an uber ->SAVAGE<- mode fight?! /screams angry D:< This will just cause people stop playing and AGAIN: locked out behind content, cant do new stuff we got today, THANKS! ..cant even buy better gears with tomes ether lmfao! I Never played Savage mode in this game nor I want to. <-< they are making me toxic and salty to other people! If I want play a difficult cheap game that makes me crush a wall I play Dark Souls with my feets. <.< Nerf this crap at once! Story fights should be for ->CASUALS<- not Elitists! >->

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You know, Bold and Italics are there to help format and emphasize particular words in a post. Not only that, I doubt that the content itself is forcing you to be "toxic and salty" to other people – it sounds more like it draws out those already existing aspects of your personality, which is technically no one's fault but your own.

But, then again, I know I'm talking to a wall here.

Well, SE has the data with clears and failures, if they judge is that bad will be nerfed (probably echo buff).

I completed this duty on the 2nd attempt with my first group. I don't think it's particularly hard but I agree with the OP that it will be nerfed, not because new people complain but because people will quit the dungeon on DF. You can already see it happening when you get this dungeon on roulette and there are new people, rather than explaining the fight people will just leave and those that remain will become frustrated and quit.

A lot of posters on this thread have the elitist mindset, so I hope they will be willing to help new players when this duty pops in their roulette, because after a couple of wipes it's not the new players that leave.

Did it last night for the 1st time, done in 1 try, not THAT hard, you just need to pause Netflix while you do it....

I hope it won't be changed. But what should be is the access to tome gear and the expert dungeons.
Back in 2.0, you didn't need to complete the MSQ to run Amdapor Keep and Wanderer's Palace, so you'd simply overgear Praetorium if you thought it was too hard.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Well, SE has the data with clears and failures, if they judge is that bad will be nerfed (probably echo buff).

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I doubt the numbers will be low enough for a nerf.

The duty isn't that bad if you have patience. My first group disbanded after 3 wipes, but we got good practice and no one was salty (just started getting blurry eyed).

I say people have patience because I was with a friend and like 3 others. Party had 1 maybe 2 new people in it and the tanks dumped out after seeing "bonus". Re-queue, had at least 3 new people... did it after just 1 wipe.

The game needs MORE fights which are difficult and make you shut off Netflix, but don't bash your skull in. People want runs to go smooth, yet refuse to educate those who are new after a wipe. It isn't hand-holding to give a tl;dr for a fight where many mechanics can borderline one-shot you.

This fight is a great lesson in raid awareness for those who may not have as much experience. I hope it does not get nerfed.

Originally I was on the side of saying "dont nerf this", because its really not that hard, and I think failure is fine in a game. I mean ,we all took several tries to get through the later stages of each Super Mario Bros. level, didnt we? But then seeing how the content after it is easier or the same level, I sense that Shinryu is indeed a mistake and was intended to be more facerolley too. Why? Because the entirety of Omega comes after it, and is very easy, Susano Ex is barely more difficult, and Lakshmi is now old content so doesnt count anyway (she was replaced by O1 freeloot boss entirely)

So I think while I believe FFXIV has gotten way too easy and will suffer for it, Shinryu is, in terms of the dramatism of difficulty, horribly overtuned and should be massively nerfed. It makes no sense to have an actually challenging (for first tries, anyway) fight as a gateway to faceroll content.