Tanks using ilv270 STR acessories

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Originally Posted by SeriousxSarcasm

Sounds like a catch 22 doesn't it. :(

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I reject the idea that raiding is something everyone should be able to do. If you're a tank and the BiS stuff for you to wear is strength accessories, and you can't handle popping cooldowns correctly, then you just don't need to be raiding. Vice versa, if you can't keep a proper CD rotating tank with str accessories up as a healer, you don't need to be raiding either.

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Originally Posted by Crater

This was appropriate - any lower a proportion of the damage, and you\\\\'re creating an imbalance where improving your skills on some classes (in this instance, tanks) benefits your party much less than improving your skills on other classes (DPS).

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So, again, nothing on improving your tank skills...with the purpose of actually tanking...only deeps deeps deeps deeps...

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Jesus here come the people defending strength tanks again. SE pls recalculate the enmity scaling again. -_-

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Not even the people who use it are defending it. More so calling SE out on their dumb balancing decisions.

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Originally Posted by Kyt

I reject the idea that raiding is something everyone should be able to do. If you're a tank and the BiS stuff for you to wear is strength accessories, and you can't handle popping cooldowns correctly, then you just don't need to be raiding. Vice versa, if you can't keep a proper CD rotating tank with str accessories up as a healer, you don't need to be raiding either.

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http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...pinionated.gif

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...pinionated.gif

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I mean, this entire thread is based on opinion, that doesn't make you more edgy for using memes on a forum.

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Originally Posted by Kyt

I mean, this entire thread is based on opinion, that doesn't make you more edgy for using memes on a forum.

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Sup kyt :> It's arawn here!

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Originally Posted by Kyt

I mean, this entire thread is based on opinion, that doesn't make you more edgy for using memes on a forum.

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That signature is epic tho. For reals.. lol

I think maybe you should reconsider, at least adjust, your position on rejecting the idea that everyone should be able to raid.

Everyone should have the opportunity to try raiding. Everyone should have the opportunity to try raiding extensively until they decide, or others decide for them, they aren't capable of handling it. I've seen a handful of players that started out like crap and eventually worked their way up to being the best in the group. And I've seen a lot of players that kept trying and kept trying, but never got better for whatever reason and eventually left the game because people stopped wanting to play with them. It's a really shitty feeling to tell someone they aren't good enough to raid. With a stranger it's a bit easier I suppose, but not with a fellow FC mate or friend you've been running with for a while.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

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That's not really the point he was going for, no ones saying you shouldn't be allowed to try raiding, I believe anyone can do it if they really wanted. What he is saying though is not everyone should be allowed to succeed without actual effort.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Sup kyt :> It's arawn here!

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Hey! :)

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

That signature is epic tho. For reals.. lol

I think maybe you should reconsider, at least adjust, your position on rejecting the idea that everyone should be able to raid.

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You misunderstand. I have NO problem with everyone trying to raid. There are casual raid groups that allow people to start getting their feet wet, and that's great. I also know raiding is a skill that is honed over time (I was terrible when I started 15 years ago) but if you're trying to do extreme stuff in the duty finder and you're not good enough to clear the fights yet, you need to take a step back and join a casual FC or something like that instead.

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Originally Posted by SeriousxSarcasm

But, like, I know a PLD who's fulfillment comes from being the "best tank." I say it in quotes because I don't actually mean "the best," I mean, they like seeing the healers DPS and never have to heal them. They like having unshakeable enmity. They like using their party support skills and new shielding skills. Hell, sometimes I've seen the party just falling to pieces and they save it with a CD, Cover, and a bit of well placed Clemency spam to give the healers a chance to find their feet. I don't think we will ever see something like that from a STR built WAR.

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So in other words he does stuff that any other tank is already expected to do sans trying to maximize damage?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

So, again, nothing on improving your tank skills...with the purpose of actually tanking...only deeps deeps deeps deeps...

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A flaw on SE's part, not the players. For the most part SE has failed to create a true dynamic to the actual tanking portion of playing a Tank. You have skills to build and maintain enmity, and skills to mitigate. You hold all the aggro, you pop cds when needed and that's the extent of tanking. Anything within the realm of extra-mitigation is nothing more than a singular skill or rotation. That's because creating a convoluted(advanced) mechanic to performing these necessary functions will create a schism that would not be healthy to the playerbase as a whole. So in the end the dynamic to playing a tank is how well you can perform other duties on top of your tanking responsibilities, and a primary source for that are advanced dps rotations.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

So, again, nothing on improving your tank skills...with the purpose of actually tanking...only deeps deeps deeps deeps...

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You can't improve your grades in a pass/fail class.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

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Yes everyone should have the chance or the opportunity to raid, I agree fully. However many act like it's fine to play dungeon mode on during raids, when it clearly isn't, Many can't raid because of their skills of how they handle things. Overhealing, over using MP, not mitigation good enough, rotations are way off etc, the list is big.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

A flaw on SE's part, not the players. For the most part SE has failed to create a true dynamic to the actual tanking portion of playing a Tank.

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Why would they try to fix it when you have numerous people coming on the official forum to claim that the actual tanking meta is the only way to make tanking fun ?

As I said somewhere else, perfect tanking skills should make you close to self-sufficient. Right now, tank is the only role that need support to perform its primary duty

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Originally Posted by Crater

You can't improve your grades in a pass/fail class.

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What ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Why would they try to fix it when you have numerous people coming on the official forum to claim that the actual tanking meta is the only way to make tanking fun ?

As I said somewhere else, perfect tanking skills should make you close to self-sufficient. Right now, tank is the only role that need support to perform its primary duty

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Tanks needs support to tank? I don't think that's true right now. You can do everything you need to do as a tank completely on your own.

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Originally Posted by Kyt

Tanks needs support to tank? I don't think that's true right now. You can do everything you need to do as a tank completely on your own.

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Sure, try to survive without a healer when raiding and tell how it went ;)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Why would they try to fix it when you have numerous people coming on the official forum to claim that the actual tanking meta is the only way to make tanking fun ?

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Well it sure as hell isn't that fun if your only concern is holding aggro + pressing one button every few minutes to mitigate a single predictable hit. In order to make tanks fun in other ways they'd have to retool all three of them, which just won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Sure, try to survive without a healer when raiding and tell how it went ;)

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That's not the same as being able to do my job without support. The trinity system calls for healers healing the tank. I can do everything I need to do to be a tank by myself.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

Well it sure as hell isn't that fun if your only concern is holding aggro + pressing one button every few minutes to mitigate a single predictable hit.

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In that sentence alone, there are already two things that could be fixed without even touching damage output.
"pressing one button every few minutes"
"single predictable hit"

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Originally Posted by Kyt

That's not the same as being able to do my job without support. The trinity system calls for healers healing the tank. I can do everything I need to do to be a tank by myself.

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Your job is to keep the mob you and survive. There could plenty of healing needed not specifically for the tank. And we're talking about perfect tanking. Until that point, healers are also a safety net for the tanks.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

In that sentence alone, there are already two things that could be fixed without even touching damage output.
"pressing one button every few minutes"
"single predictable hit"

Your job is to keep the mob you and survive. There could plenty of healing needed not specifically for the tank. And we're talking about perfect tanking. Until that point, healers are also a safety net for the tanks.

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Well I mean DPS need healers to do their role: they would die to damage without them.

Only healer you could say is entirely self sufficient.

To make str tank work you need both a good tank and a good healer. If you notice that the healer isn't good enough or if they ask, you should switch to vit. I have both a vit set and a str set.

If I'm running dungeons I'll use vit for big pulls and str for bosses. I also think that str tank is better at teaching tanks and healers on when to use defensive cooldowns and heals.

I have been running ex susano and lakshmi as a str tank with no problems except when the healers as slow on shields and heals. My fc/raid friend said he likes healing me more because it let's him use Excogitation more often.

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Originally Posted by PK_THUNER

I also think that str tank is better at teaching tanks and healers on when to use defensive cooldowns and heals. .

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Thank you for saying this. Honestly it does have some truth to it, because many tanks think as long they are overgeared like crazy and have so much HP they shouldn't pop anything at all. Happens too often everywhere honestly.

Just like in Heavensward before the VIT/STR at the time, I was still all VIT on my tanks. Yeah, people complained about the low dps, but oh well. I don't do meta or bandwagon.

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Originally Posted by PK_THUNER

To make str tank work you need both a good tank and a good healer. If you notice that the healer isn't good enough or if they ask, you should switch to vit. I have both a vit set and a str set.

If I'm running dungeons I'll use vit for big pulls and str for bosses. I also think that str tank is better at teaching tanks and healers on when to use defensive cooldowns and heals.

I have been running ex susano and lakshmi as a str tank with no problems except when the healers as slow on shields and heals. My fc/raid friend said he likes healing me more because it let's him use Excogitation more often.

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I fully agree and I really liked that tanks had some options and choices for gearing up (the only role that had that really). This game is really missing meaningful gear choice.

But I would rather be locked into VIT gear, than have ilvl 270 be BIS for the whole expansion ...

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

In that sentence alone, there are already two things that could be fixed without even touching damage output.
"pressing one button every few minutes"
"single predictable hit"

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And as i just said straight after, they'd need to change the toolkit of all 3 tanks which won't happen anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Tila

Well I mean DPS need healers to do their role: they would die to damage without them.

Only healer you could say is entirely self sufficient.

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Without tanks healers would equally die to damage, since they would be tanking (assuming they are healing the damage the dps take).

Meh. In futute patch 270 str acc won't be relevant. And 4.0 will vanish in breeze. Wear whatever u want. Just sayin.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

And as i just said straight after, they'd need to change the toolkit of all 3 tanks which won't happen anytime soon.

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He is just snarling at you because he think tanks should be able to selfheal themselves. 1 tank can do all the healing will be great for the meta too guys, let's roll 1 tank 7 dps on savage raid.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

I fully agree and I really liked that tanks had some options and choices for gearing up (the only role that had that really). This game is really missing meaningful gear choice.

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Problem is, this is not really a "choice". If you're good enough to pull it, STR is better, if you're not, then VIT is just compensating for whatever you lack.